Soma And Boltor Prime Need A Nerf!

[OrphanMaker]

why not nerf every end game content so we won't pass 60+ mins in T4 survival or 40+ waves in T4 def yeah nerf everything naow pleaze

Hey stop being a baby! I have a Gorgon with 24 base damage that rapes on T4 Survival. I formad it 5 times and it is a beast! I think player should work hard for op weapons that can combat T4 60+ mins survivals. Endgame should not be about having a DPS Hose but should be about Player Skills. I use my Oberon Reckoning for crowd control ad spray T4 60+ min plus enemies until they die and if that don't work I use reckoning again and spray them again. Endgame suppose to be a challenge, so stop being a little girl and play Hard!!!

[PeripheralVisionary]

You can't raise it's MR level because you sold it in a pack with Rhino Prime, who happens to also be MR2.

 

A MR2 new player who bought the Prime access would suddenly find himself without the gun he paid for for 6~ more master levels.

 

Or you could grandfather those players in, and let them keep their boltor prime, but punish new players with friends who's buddy had an extra copy to give them.

The Soma was still usable by those who crafted it beforehand when its MR rank was increased to a 6. There's nothing different about this case either.

[OrphanMaker]

Please have a look at weapons like the Ogris, Penta or maybe even Angstrum.... in the end Boltor Prime aint going that far

Look at Paris Prime or Dread...

Dude Boltor Prime is fine. So is Soma. The game is on a Power Creep ride and there is no stopping it. After all DEL need to get you to buy plat.

Well S#&$ there i've said it.

Positively said, the game is about weapons, and it would be extremely boring if all of them were completely balanced. There would be no point in going after another weapon -except for the skin. Some balance is good. Total balance is bad.

I do agree with you that Supra could use some love, but by nerfing Soma or Boltor you will achieve nothing. Other weapons will be put on the market that are better stronger faster or that make good coffee and players will go and use that.

If you are going to get this kind of reaction to strong weapons in a game that follows this specific business model you might consider changing games or better just taking it slow and having a break.

Cheers,

 

Well you can not compare this weapons to the Ogris, Penta, and Angsturm and much so not Bows. All those weapons have their pros and cons. The Explosive cannons cons are you must be a minium distance from target so you don't blow you arm off. Also the Bows can one hit enemies but it requires precise aiming, leading, and skill to use not to mention the slow firerate and reload all that combined balance these weapons. The Boltor Prime and Soma are dps hoses that have no real cons. I still use my Boltor and it still rapes T4 with only 2 forma. The Boltor Prime can be end game but it should be formad to be end game. If you want an OP end game weapon forma it 4 to 6 times. I think people should work hard for endgame and even then it should still be a challenge that require the player skill. It should be 40% gun 60% skill, not 80% or 90% gun 10% to 20% skill. These guns should be powerful but not so powerful that you can blast through enemies with no skill at all, and pick up ammo reload in 2.4 seconds and do it all over again!

[OrphanMaker]

As someone who uses both these guns a decent amount, I think they should not be nerfed, but completely agree that they should be mastery locked. I think Soma should be 8 or higher and boltor prime I think the rank 10 that someone mentioned seems about right. I also agree that more weapons should be mastery locked. You currently can build and speed level a few cheap guns and level up all the boss dropped warframes and get to MR 6 pretty fast. End game weapons should be hard to get, you should not be able to use them until you are oh I don't know maybe near the end of the game. People crying about nerf this nerf that all the time should realize that they can abstain from using any weapon they want and that if we want high level content then we need high level gear. I definitely don't agree that boltor prime is MR 2, that means you can get it on Venus :(.

Mastery locking weapon would help... Kinda

Boltor Prime rank 10?

Soma rank 8?

People should not have to wait a long time to get great weapons. I mean.

This would help, but still end game should be more about skill rather than getting a higher level weapon to deal with higher level enemies. I mean if you get a tier 4 weapon to use against tier 4 enemies that would be the same difference as tier 1 weapon against tier 1 enemies the challenge does not increase. And to be honest Mastery locking is a bad idea. What the game should reward player progress by giving weapons that can make them lazy and use less skill and be less of a challenge. Higher Rank player should be rewarded with more of a challenge not a recliner chair weapon.

[OrphanMaker]

I'm one of clan leaders in an alliance that holds Pluto rails. Naturally, that means I run them very often during conflicts with either clanmates or alliance members.

Let me tell you this. For these missions, the true end-game, you NEED multi-forma Boltor Prime, multi-forma Brakk or equivalent. And even they are barely enough.

There should be true powerful, endgame weapons. Why not Boltor Prime?

What are you talking about? I have a 5 forma Gorgon that destroys on these mission. I run these missions all the time for high pay, a challenge, and because im a rebel that love to fight for the underdog. If a clan or alliance starts to take or over the star map I run multiple runs against them to destroy them. And while im doing this run I see multiple noobs and no skilled player clutching their Boltor Prime and Soma getting destroyed. I have to revive them after mowing down a group of enemies with my 5 forma gorgon that have 24 base damage and 4.2 reload speed. I assert the Boltor Prime and Soma crutches for unskilled players.

Edited June 27, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[OrphanMaker]

I feel like people calling for nerfs need a nerf :( If you don't like it, don't use it...

And I think you need a buff! Keep clutching that soma and Boltor prim those skill crutches.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

What are you talking about? I have a 5 forma Gorgon that destroys on these mission. I run these missions all the time for high pay, a challenge, and because im a rebel that love to fight for the underdog. If a clan or alliance starts to take or over the star map I run multiple runs against them to destroy them. And while im doing this run I see multiple noobs and no skilled player clutching their Boltor Prime and Soma getting destroyed. I have to revive them after mowing down a group of enemies with my 5 forma gorgon that have 24 base damage and 4.2 reload speed. I assert the Boltor Prime and Soma crutches for unskilled players.

With Boltor Prime I can solo these missions. Although, it is also possible with Gorgon, yes, and Gorgon Wraith is commonly seen in them. Still, try going solo with 5 forma Gorgon. Annoying! And easy to run out of ammo.

Also, it's a gear based game. There is little to no skill involved. Besides basic understanding that is, I mean if someone runs away and into a trinity specter and dies I won't even revive them in a public game. Ofc if they're alliance crew I have to...

On a side note, 3 rhinos sustaining triple roar obliterate this type of mission, but overall boltor prime is where it needs to be. I can't really speak for soma, but it seems reasonable. I never forma'd mine as I don't like using it.

Edited June 27, 2014 by (PS4)Lord_Gremlin

[OrphanMaker]

With Boltor Prime I can solo these missions. Although, it is also possible with Gorgon, yes, and Gorgon Wraith is commonly seen in them. Still, try going solo with 5 forma Gorgon. Annoying! And easy to run out of ammo.

Also, it's a gear based game. There is little to no skill involved. Besides basic understanding that is, I mean if someone runs away and into a trinity specter and dies I won't even revive them in a public game. Ofc if they're alliance crew I have to...

On a side note, 3 rhinos sustaining triple roar obliterate this type of mission, but overall boltor prime is where it needs to be. I can't really speak for soma, but it seems reasonable. I never forma'd mine as I don't like using it.

Well, you may say it is a gear based and require no skill game, and I think you are wrong.  If you watch the Dev stream videos, you can honestly see the Devs are mad at the fact player are getting over power weapons and are spraying enemies with little effort. The Developers are working hard to create new improved AI that players are begging for but they can never show this cool AI because player bullet hose enemies before they get a chance to show this improved AI. The Developers from what I see are frustrated. The developers want to make a balanced challenging game but you cry baby players keep asking for more powerful weapons because you suck!

Edited June 27, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[TrinityPrime]

Taking an oberon and gorgon into endgame?  Starting a thread with <> need nerf in it   I think the OP is trolling just to get a rage discussion going.

 

There are at least 2 dozen weapons that are viable when fully formaed for T4 missions with endgame boiling down to scaling crowd control and exponential damage abilities, not weapons.  Singling out the most popular amongst the rifles for a nerf request (does DE even read unsubstantiated nerf requests?) due to an absolute assumption of them being a 'crutch for unskilled players' is a bit over the top at the very least.

 

That being said, it does sound like a good idea to move up the rank requirement for building the Bolter Prime now that it's associated prime access package ended.  Or is it bundled with the Loki Prime Package?

Edited June 28, 2014 by KnotOfMetal

[Archistopheles]

The Soma was still usable by those who crafted it beforehand when its MR rank was increased to a 6. There's nothing different about this case either.

 

Except that the devs aren't dumb. They know what stats they give weapons. They know what MR they put on weapons.

 

Are you suggesting that they keep high powered weapons low MR rank while you can buy them, but then change them to high MR rank after they are no longer for sale?

 

That doesn't sound shady to you?

[OrphanMaker]

ahhh... The truth of the matter is I want this game to be challenge.

 

I don't like the boltor prime and soma because it make thing to easy and don't want to be forced to play with the boltor prime or soma because I like diversity. But it seems like im being forced to get either one of these weapon just to keep up. I mean this game may be player vs enimie but what the fun of it if you cant make a kill faster enough because someone on your team have a soma or boltor prime. You guys bull*** all you want to but you guys everybody is highly competitive and are trying to get all the kills and if you don't have either one of these weapons your at an disadvantage and your team is going to spray everything have you just standing around looking lost. I hate the fact that everyone have to use a boltor prime or soma to just keep up. It breaks the divert weaponry. Its like playing call of duty online and one gun, an assault rifle, is super powerful and you like to use handguns but cant keep up because your favorite gun is to weak to compete and you have to get that same gun that everyone is using.

 

This is why I hate the boltor prime and soma so much. Its either you use the boltor prime/soma or go home

 

IM finished last post and though on this topic..

Edited June 28, 2014 by OrphanMaker

[PeripheralVisionary]

Except that the devs aren't dumb. They know what stats they give weapons. They know what MR they put on weapons.

 

Are you suggesting that they keep high powered weapons low MR rank while you can buy them, but then change them to high MR rank after they are no longer for sale?

 

That doesn't sound shady to you?

-I think the Devs honestly make weapons more powerful than needed too

-They probably HATE nerfing a particular weapon, unless it's part of a larger update, I.E. Acrid in Damage 2.0

-While it screams pay2win, it certainly isn't that disconcerting to me. Then again, you do make a good point on the disturbing implications of it. But for the most part, no, I am not all that disturbed about packages bypassing Mastery Rank Restrictions.

Edited June 28, 2014 by PeripheralVisionary

[Bipp]

I have been playing Warframe for about a year now and know the weapons of the game very well. I like the diversity the weapon range offer. But lately I have been reading stats and building weapons and I can honestly say the Boltor Prime and Soma are overly Buffed! They are stupidly over powered and is destroying the balance and weapon choice of this game. There are older weapon like the supra that does 35 damage that are completely over shadowed by the crit-monster soma, and the crazy 55 damage Boltor Prime. These two weapon have completely broken the balance in this game. The Soma and Boltor Prime are so overly powered you can mow down enemies with little skill and little effort, and make any leveling and modding of any other weapon seems pointless.

 

The Devs on the last Stream video, 31, talked about making the game more balanced and challenging but how can this game be challenging and balanced with stupid crazy weapons like the Soma and Boltor Prime.

 

The Saddest part about this is the Boltor Prime. The Boltor Prime as we all know is a prime weapon and like all primes equipment it should not be a big game changer.  There should be little stats change and/or should be purely cosmetic. For example the new Loki prime had a 25 point increase in base energy which is not a game changer, and other prime warfames had very little or no stat changes keeping the balance and choice in this game. The Boltor Prime on the other hand is so stupid its base damage is 54 and the none prime version base damage is 25. That is more than a 100% damage increase. That would be on par with a prime warframe having a 100% stats increase over the original. The Boltor Prime should be a purely cosmetic version of the Boltor or have a small 5+ to 10+ damage increase and not a whooping 30+ damage increase.

-EDIT- Fixed some silly spelling mistakes :(

 

You say that the Boltor Prime and Soma are stupidly overpowered and are destroying the balance and weapon choice in this game. Now, that's not entirely true. They can be considered OP but they sure as hek don't destroy the balance. There are 45 primary weapons including the Boltor prime and Soma. That's a modest amount of choice right there.

 

Not only that, but who said you HAVE to use those monster guns? Sure, compared to other weapons and their prime siblings, the Boltor Prime's much larger increase in stats does seem a little unfair, no denying that, and that MR2 does seem a bit too low for such an amazing weapon, but you still don't need to use it. I personally find that the Boltor Prime and Soma take all the fun out of the game and are utterly boring at lower levels, which is why I opt for other great guns (Such as the Hek) to use in place of my Boltor Prime.

 

The fact that the Boltor Prime can be obtained at such a low MR means that players who are relatively new to the game, and as such haven't experienced all kinds of weapons this game can to offer, creates a huge weapon gap, that would normally be filled by all other kinds of guns, and the player believes that their low level gun is far inferior to the Boltor Prime and starts shouting "Nerf nerf nerf the boltor prime" without realising that there are many more guns that the player is yet to experience before shouting out stuff such as this (Not that I'm saying that's what you're saying).

 

What may also happen is that players obtain the Boltor Prime and are blown away at first by it's sheer power and subsequently get... 'hooked' on it (not that I'm saying you are), believing that it's the only weapon that can kill stuff and use properly. These types of gamers are lazy and complacent, thinking that if the gun they're using on the enemy doesn't kill within 1 shot, it's crappish (Not that I'm saying that you are).

 

It's good to know that you've experienced all sorts of guns, as I have, and you're not a cry-baby noob, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that these weapons aren't the only weapons, and if we nerf them or buff others, bringing them onto the same level as the Boltor Prime which would make the game incredibly boring, what else will we have to cope properly with 1hr+ T4 survivals and Defences? Even the Magnificent Boltor Prime can't stand up to those flipping adamantium bullet sponges for very long without a LOT of ammo.

 

TL:DR There are other weapons to use aside from the Boltor prime and Soma.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Keybopsef

[DarkRedeemer]

the way i see it is nothing needs to be nerfed but locked behind higher mastery rank restrictions so you dont have rank 2 spraying boltor primes everywhere. also on another note they need to lock planets to a certain mastery rank so we dont have rank 0 on pluto trying to do 50 waves in defence or 60mins+ on survival. call nerf all you want but we need those weapons for end game PERIOD.

[Deruser]

The fact that there is a gun that makes the game boring for being too powerful is a problem right there. You don't see weapons like the penta or the ogris being powerful but boring. If DE wants to make a gun really powerful, then it should also have a big weakness. Like the Penta and the Ogris, they are powerful weapons, but their low fire rate keeps things interesting. And there's also the fact that you can blow yourself up. Powerful weapons need stuff like this in order to keep them fun.

[TenshuYuusha]

Please have a look at weapons like the Ogris, Penta or maybe even Angstrum.... in the end Boltor Prime aint going that far

Look at Paris Prime or Dread...

Dude Boltor Prime is fine. So is Soma. The game is on a Power Creep ride and there is no stopping it. After all DEL need to get you to buy plat.

Well S#&$ there i've said it.

Positively said, the game is about weapons, and it would be extremely boring if all of them were completely balanced. There would be no point in going after another weapon -except for the skin. Some balance is good. Total balance is bad.

I do agree with you that Supra could use some love, but by nerfing Soma or Boltor you will achieve nothing. Other weapons will be put on the market that are better stronger faster or that make good coffee and players will go and use that.

If you are going to get this kind of reaction to strong weapons in a game that follows this specific business model you might consider changing games or better just taking it slow and having a break.

Cheers,

 

Total balance is never bad, you need to give weapons some better utility over others in certain situations or fitting a person's playstyle that can still keep up with a weapon that can fitted towards another person's playstyle, creativity is good, cookie cutter player/weapon builds are bad. Unless they're weapons that are obviously meant to start you off (MK-1, Braton, Lato, Skana, etc.) no weapon should have advantages over a majority of the rest of the weapons.

[Kuva_Kebab]

What OP is saying:

 

"The equipment that allows you to get through the hardest content in the game needs to NOT do that, because some content should not be accessed!"

 

Have fun running a 30minute+ T4 survival with your Braton Prime, oh wait, you won't make it that far.

[Ttariel]

Guns in general need a nerf

[PeripheralVisionary]

Have fun running a 30minute+ T4 survival with your Braton Prime, oh wait, you won't make it that far.

Does it not disturb you, in your view, that the only gun that can make it thus far in t4 survival is a Boltor Prime? Just saying.

[Beas7ie]

No they don't. If you don't like them then don't use them.

[Archistopheles]

No they don't. If you don't like them then don't use them.

 

That argument is flawed and you know it.

 

That's like saying "If you hate the bus so much, then just walk 20 miles to work/school."

[bl4ckhunter]

i don't get what's so wrong about having high level hard to get gear  (boltor prime bp still sells for 35plt as a proof of that) we have gear for low level missions and gear balanced for endless survival/defence/interception, if you say that the boltor prime (all prime weapons eventually, provided they are buffed to an even level) should have mastery requirement of 8 or highter i absolutely agree but as long as levels and mastery ranks exist some stuff is bound to be more powerful and something weaker, i can't see why are so many people complaining about that.

Edited June 28, 2014 by bl4ckhunter

[Beas7ie]

That argument is flawed and you know it.

 

That's like saying "If you hate the bus so much, then just walk 20 miles to work/school."

And that example to support your argument of my argument being flawed is flawed. You can also buy a car or ride a bike or join a carpool to get to school or work.

And in warframe there are plenty of weapons to choose from so if there's a few you don't like it shouldn't be a big deal. If you want to play on lower levels or have a better challenge then use a weaker weapon. No one is forcing you to use a certain layout. Plus we need powerful weapons like soma or boltor prime to be able to kill the bad guys in the current "end game" levels of T4 defense and survival.

[Archistopheles]

Thanks Beas7ie. I understand your point now.

[Kuva_Kebab]

Does it not disturb you, in your view, that the only gun that can make it thus far in t4 survival is a Boltor Prime? Just saying.

 

It does not, some weapons are just meant to be superior.

 

In order to get the Boltor Prime, you have to go through the void anyway, (but I suppose rich kids will be rich kids and will just buy it).

Balancing out all the guns so that there aren't CLEAR superior guns is a mistake and everyone knows it. "Why should I make new gear if my current default gear is just as good with the same mods?" People seem to skip over the idea of progression. You progress, you earn, you use, you enjoy the full benefits of the fruits of your labour, in this case, the Soma or Boltor Prime.