A Warning To De Regarding Ds 2.0 Pvp

[grillv20]

Meta is made to prevent designing single tactic which will pwn everything.

zephyr with turbulence and soma is 1 example of such tactic.

 

Also whole point is balancing stuff before pvp comes out. Thats why i consider this simple waste of time and resources to release it now.

 

 I think its better for them to go ahead and release it and let us complain on the forums. That way they can gather information relatively quickly on broken crap and go back and do what they gotta do to get it working right. Now if you want to talk about wasting time and resources we can have a kubrow or melee 2.0 conversation.

Edited July 15, 2014 by grillv20

[Liminal]

disappointed about a pvp sydana? really? lol its not like you're forced to go into the market place and buy the stuff there either >_> its just cosmetic crap

Yes. Because so far I can get anything in the game by playing what Warframe was promised to be from the start. As long as that doesn't change they can go crazy with PvP for all I care!

 

But yeah, on topic: I'm interested in how they'll balance pvp when pve balance is still a mess :P

[Davoodoo]

 I think its better for them to go ahead and release it and let us complain on the forums. That way they can gather information relatively quickly on broken crap and go back and do what they gotta do to get it working right. Now if you want to talk about wasting time and resources we can have a kubrow or melee 2.0 conversation.

Its not like balancing is space science, once you balance pve and reduce power curve you will have easier time balancing pvp, if they released pvp after that they would improve game earlier and ultimately have same effect in the end. Considering that they even plan to balance game at all.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Davoodoo

[grillv20]

Yes. Because so far I can get anything in the game by playing what Warframe was promised to be from the start. As long as that doesn't change they can go crazy with PvP for all I care!

 

But yeah, on topic: I'm interested in how they'll balance pvp when pve balance is still a mess :P

 

Would you still be mad if there were pve only sydanas too? Steve had mentioned something about running some sort of missions for a certain faction for proxy wars and getting a special sydana. With reputation and stuff involved you might not be getting some sydanas unless you do a whole lot of grinding in the opposite direction to get in good with some of the other factions.

 

Having neat little cosmetics in the game to show what your Tenno is involved in is a pretty neat idea IMO. I wouldn't be butt ravaged if they gave everybody different items for choosing which path they took. I highly doubt that they would lock you out of getting any one particular item, though you can almost guarantee that there would be a whole mess of grinding to do to get what you wanted if it were like this though.

Edited July 15, 2014 by grillv20

[grillv20]

Its not like balancing is space science, once you balance pve and reduce power curve you will have easier time balancing pvp, if they released pvp after that they would improve game earlier and ultimately have same effect in the end. Considering that they even plan to balance game at all.

 

I do hope that they do some sort of balancing eventually but I would rather see them build on core game mechanics first before they go touching ever little thing. They already have like a billion different weapons in the game...one gun I don't see getting balanced very well would be that ridiculous chain lightning gun that was put out recently... >_> stupidly over powered gun for clearing random monsters.

[Liminal]

Would you still be mad if there were pve only sydanas too? 

Nope, because it's what I signed up for back in 2012.

[grillv20]

Nope, because it's what I signed up for back in 2012.

 

well there you go, everybody is happy

[Renegade343]

well there you go, everybody is happy

What if I told you I am not? Then your statement is falsified. 

 

In all seriousness though, PvE only Syanadas may work. 

[Davoodoo]

If we ever get dark sector event it and de wanted to put some rewards on pvp it would be only fair if you could also earn them on pve, cause you know thats core gameplay mode.

 

I think it would satisfy everyone.

[vaugahn]

If we ever get dark sector event it and de wanted to put some rewards on pvp it would be only fair if you could also earn them on pve, cause you know thats core gameplay mode.

 

I think it would satisfy everyone.

Ah no. If DE wants to implement PvP only cosmetics that's totally fine. Like was mentioned earlier, there was some talk about getting a syandana for doing invasions, probably something like "do 100 grineer missions and get a grineer syandana". If they want to do something similar for PvP, I don't see what the problem is. So long as it's not PvP exclusives guns nobody's missing out on anything

[Liminal]

well there you go, everybody is happy

But this is only about cosmetics, because the day I see an exclusive weapon/mod unlock for PvP I'll drop the game like it's hot. That's the problem.

[optyk]

I have never encountered so much hate against PVP in any other game as I have in Warframe. One day you will be in my shoes when Corrupted Lancer nr.5940395 isn't as exciting as it used to be. At that point you either quit or explore what else the game has to offer.

 

PVP done right provides infinite content that's never the same because you're facing real, thinking opponents. Try helping make PVP better instead of mocking it. It's part of the game and here to stay.

 

 

I'm sorry, but you seriously lack serious gaming experience or are just spouting randomness to help quantify your rationales.

 

PvP DOES NOT provide infinite content. I'll entertain this ludicrous statement a little with the latest hyped PvP game, Titanfall. Yeah, because Titanfall is just so damn "deep with content" or various, legitimate non copy/paste tactics and builds because its simply PvP... right? 

 

PvP DOES change PvE balance, unless there are completly different weapons, mods and frames built for that mechanic alone. I'll continue to entertain this one with an older example from EQ2 on how my Ranger could go toe to toe vs a Healing plate-wearing Paladin and win. Or How in SWG I was able to assassinate a grouped Jedi as a Bounty Hunter and make him de-level and have to re-grind his Jedi XP. Cause that was fair and balanced! Right?

 

Yes, PvP wormed it's way into Warframe; just like it does with every damn game out there now. You pure PvP players just can't stick to your "balanced" PvP games. Why? Because theres no such thing or you wouldn't jump games so much looking for the next thing to ruin.

 

Why do pure PvE players hate on PvP? Because PvE players do what they are told and that's to play/follow a PvE game. Now, if PvPers would follow suit and chase down PvP games -to which their are multitudes of, everyone would be happy. But alas, no matter the @(*()$ game, theres always some minor PvP group that has to throw down the same old rhetoric of "PvP makes games better", "PvP adds balance", "PvP or your game failz", "PvP or you wont sell this game", "Do PvP like <game name> does!!".. etc etc. It's all been said and done FOR YEARS and nothing substantial has ever come about from it because its near impossible to balance. The only "balance" in PvP is what the player is willing to put up with in inequality of the system and mechanics.

 

I like PvP and PvE equally. But theres times when games need to focus on one rather than the other or attempt both. The latest Warhammer 40k MMO game is going PvP based --fancy that.

[Nimbat]

I'm sorry, but you seriously lack serious gaming experience or are just spouting randomness to help quantify your rationales.

 

PvP DOES NOT provide infinite content. I'll entertain this ludicrous statement a little with the latest hyped PvP game, Titanfall. Yeah, because Titanfall is just so damn "deep with content" or various, legitimate non copy/paste tactics and builds because its simply PvP... right? 

 

PvP DOES change PvE balance, unless there are completly different weapons, mods and frames built for that mechanic alone. I'll continue to entertain this one with an older example from EQ2 on how my Ranger could go toe to toe vs a Healing plate-wearing Paladin and win. Or How in SWG I was able to assassinate a grouped Jedi as a Bounty Hunter and make him de-level and have to re-grind his Jedi XP. Cause that was fair and balanced! Right?

 

Yes, PvP wormed it's way into Warframe; just like it does with every damn game out there now. You pure PvP players just can't stick to your "balanced" PvP games. Why? Because theres no such thing or you wouldn't jump games so much looking for the next thing to ruin.

 

Why do pure PvE players hate on PvP? Because PvE players do what they are told and that's to play/follow a PvE game. Now, if PvPers would follow suit and chase down PvP games -to which their are multitudes of, everyone would be happy. But alas, no matter the @(*()$ game, theres always some minor PvP group that has to throw down the same old rhetoric of "PvP makes games better", "PvP adds balance", "PvP or your game failz", "PvP or you wont sell this game", "Do PvP like <game name> does!!".. etc etc. It's all been said and done FOR YEARS and nothing substantial has ever come about from it because its near impossible to balance. The only "balance" in PvP is what the player is willing to put up with in inequality of the system and mechanics.

 

I like PvP and PvE equally. But theres times when games need to focus on one rather than the other or attempt both. The latest Warhammer 40k MMO game is going PvP based --fancy that.

You're basically telling me to gtfo from "your" PVE game (WF). Well woopidoo guess what, WF is a PVP game too and it is balanced separately from PVE. If you had done some actual research before saying PVP affects PVE balance I would've atleast taken you seriously.

 

People still play Counter-Strike 1.6, Quake, UT etc so tell me how PVP doesn't provide infinite replayability. Your argument that people switch games and they're therefore not endless is really stupid. People want to try new games. If I go back and play UT with my friends we will still have a blast despite the game being over a decade old.

 

The difference between PVE and PVP is that PVE needs a constant stream of content updates while PVP does not (excluding balance and bugfixes). I'm not trying to turn WF into a 100% PVP game if that's what you think.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Nimbat

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Did you all miss the fact that you start out unleveled, and it takes a while before you level up once??? Did you all really miss that?

 

STronger weapons take allot of time to become strong in New PVP.

 

It takes 30 seconds to level up once, so if you have a 60 point build it will take 30*60 1800 seconds. 

 

 

OOOOR 30 minutes.

 

 

So ya, those 1 hit kill builds will take a full 30 minutes to make, and i doubt the matches will last that long.

 

So a perma hysteria valkyr build requires: atleast 30 mod points, so that is 15 minutes before its possible.

 

 

DO THE MATH! 

 

The new PVP mode is very ballance.

 

Good builds take up to 30 minutes to make

 

Crap builds can take 5 minutes

 

 

but the crap builds will do more damage sooner, the good builds will do a hell of allot of damage, but it will take a loooonggg time.

 

 

So the best weapons will not be the weapons that require 60 mod points to use in PVP, it will be the weapons that require 10-20 mod points to be good.

 

THEORY DUBUNKED! #math

No it won't. You gain 2 points for every level remember? Also, if you forma every slot then it'll take even less time since all the mod points will be halved. All the important mods for Perma-hysteria (Hysteria, Narrow Minded, Continuity) only need 20 points if all the slots are forma'd. Which means that you only have to get to level 10, which will only take 5 minutes.

[Davoodoo]

You're basically telling me to gtfo from "your" PVE game (WF). Well woopidoo guess what, WF is a PVP game too and it is balanced separately from PVE. If you had done some actual research before saying PVP affects PVE balance I would've atleast taken you seriously.

 

People still play Counter-Strike 1.6, Quake, UT etc so tell me how PVP doesn't provide infinite replayability. Your argument that people switch games and they're therefore not endless is really stupid. People want to try new games. If I go back and play UT with my friends we will still have a blast despite the game being over a decade old.

 

The difference between PVE and PVP is that PVE needs a constant stream of content updates while PVP does not (excluding balance and bugfixes). I'm not trying to turn WF into a 100% PVP game if that's what you think.

WF and balanced... These 2 words doesnt match up.

Truth be told is that DE wants more players like everyone(we cant blame them for that) so they implement pvp cause there will be ppl who will want pvp.

1st rule to balancing both pve and pvp is ensuring that every option which you consider is viable, it isnt the case even if you look only at frames themselves, we also have tons of weapons which dont follow that. Balance follows same basic principles for both pve and pvp you then spice things up for pvp and pve but unless you balanced it in 1st place it will all be in vain

 

Dont use argument saying that "ppl still play". Ive seen ppl still playing diablo 2 and still farming items on pve, private wow servers running tbc and vanilla for those who want to replay these. If youre hardcore fan you will still find a reason to play, but also cs1.6 quake and ut are unique games(except cs:go), no one is making such games anymore, these ppl are driven by nostalgia and not by games features.

 

Also dont forget that unless you have astronomical budget hybrid games will sacrifice either pvp or pve, only wow so far made decent entry in both but astronomical budget and pve isnt as good as it used to be, i could say that dark souls managed that but pvp is laggy as hell in ds2 there are some pretty unbalanced things, tons of exploits and cheat protection isnt up to standards so it isnt great example.

 

Pvp also needs constant stream of patches, there is a reason why major pvp titles incorporated meta. So it wont be boring, "every match is the same" game, even then additional maps and gamemodes are needed so game wont become too repetitive.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Davoodoo

[.Talia.]

It's too late to complain about this game not being balanced for PvP. 

 

PvP is already here, so we might as well do it right, don't you agree?

 

As it stands now, PvP is very unbalanced, but that is just more reason to balance it, and not a reason to abandon it.

[Davoodoo]

It's too late to complain about this game not being balanced for PvP. 

 

PvP is already here, so we might as well do it right, don't you agree?

 

As it stands now, PvP is very unbalanced, but that is just more reason to balance it, and not a reason to abandon it.

Conclaves doesnt really matter, theres no reward to them, you do it for fun when you want(not that it shouldnt be somewhat balanced).

 

The problem starts when pvp becomes important.

[grillv20]

What if I told you I am not? Then your statement is falsified. 

 

In all seriousness though, PvE only Syanadas may work. 

 

Why cant pvpers have special stuff cosmetic stuff? does that somehow interrupt your gameplay? does not having prime package only sydanas also rustle your jimmies? 

[grillv20]

Ah no. If DE wants to implement PvP only cosmetics that's totally fine. Like was mentioned earlier, there was some talk about getting a syandana for doing invasions, probably something like "do 100 grineer missions and get a grineer syandana". If they want to do something similar for PvP, I don't see what the problem is. So long as it's not PvP exclusives guns nobody's missing out on anything

 

Stuff like this would be weird though. It actually wouldn't really make any sense at all. Unless the guns didn't give mastery points or were only good for PVP only thats about all I could think of to make it actually work.

[optyk]

You're basically telling me to gtfo from "your" PVE game (WF). Well woopidoo guess what, WF is a PVP game too and it is balanced separately from PVE. If you had done some actual research before saying PVP affects PVE balance I would've atleast taken you seriously.

 

People still play Counter-Strike 1.6, Quake, UT etc so tell me how PVP doesn't provide infinite replayability. Your argument that people switch games and they're therefore not endless is really stupid. People want to try new games. If I go back and play UT with my friends we will still have a blast despite the game being over a decade old.

 

The difference between PVE and PVP is that PVE needs a constant stream of content updates while PVP does not (excluding balance and bugfixes). I'm not trying to turn WF into a 100% PVP game if that's what you think.

 

No, I gave you simple, clear, modern and past examples of your poor dead horse. It's not "my" PvE game, its the game that was branded and sold to everyone and later flavored with a sprinkle of joke PvP.

 

This is why, when PvP is brought up in PvE games, players will be short and reply with a simple "No". Its all been said and done, the argument debate is so old its just not worth the effort anymore, hence the replies anyone gets.

 

You win, enjoy your Crusade. You're not the first, good luck.

[grillv20]

No, I gave you simple, clear, modern and past examples of your poor dead horse. It's not "my" PvE game, its the game that was branded and sold to everyone and later flavored with a sprinkle of joke PvP.

 

This is why, when PvP is brought up in PvE games, players will be short and reply with a simple "No". Its all been said and done, the argument debate is so old its just not worth the effort anymore, hence the replies anyone gets.

 

You win, enjoy your Crusade. You're not the first, good luck.

 

Pvp has been successful in Pve games in the past, why cant it be good in this game too? lol

[Implodingbanana]

i didn't know the drk sectors were PvP O_o this should be fun :)

[.Talia.]

No, I gave you simple, clear, modern and past examples of your poor dead horse. It's not "my" PvE game, its the game that was branded and sold to everyone and later flavored with a sprinkle of joke PvP.

 

This is why, when PvP is brought up in PvE games, players will be short and reply with a simple "No". Its all been said and done, the argument debate is so old its just not worth the effort anymore, hence the replies anyone gets.

 

You win, enjoy your Crusade. You're not the first, good luck.

 

How can people upvote mindless posts like this one?

 

optyk, PvP is already here, there is no point in stating how this game is not for PvP. It's already happening. Continuing on denial about PvP simply by replying "No" on every PvP topic, is gonna do any difference.

PvP in Warframe is not going anywhere, There is no "Crusade". People who likes PvP don't have to convince you of anything, it's done already, PvP is here. 

 

Since the PvP (being the Conclave or the Solar Rail Conflicts) is a reality, we might as well do it right, dont you think? Balancing is needed.

Edited July 16, 2014 by RexSol

[Davoodoo]

How can people upvote mindless posts like this one?

 

optyk, PvP is already here, there is no point in stating how this game is not for PvP. It's already happening. Continuing on denial about PvP simply by replying "No" on every PvP topic, is gonna do any difference.

PvP in Warframe is not going anywhere, There is no "Crusade". People who likes PvP don't have to convince you of anything, it's done already, PvP is here. 

There is difference between gimmick "conclaves" and real gameplay mode "ds2.0 pvp".

 

Part of pve content rewards can be locked behind pvp

 

Its you who doesnt see difference between pvp being here and pvp being important to anything.

-conclaves ARENT important

-ds2.0 pvp IS important

 

Why is ds2.0 important, owner of specific node dictates how much of reward from dark sector nodes goes into clan vault. Till now if you set 100% you simply lost cause ppl wouldnt support you, while pvp will mean that as long as you have control you can do anything and pvp dedicated players control access to dark sectors.

[Radford_343]

How can people upvote mindless posts like this one?

 

optyk, PvP is already here, there is no point in stating how this game is not for PvP. It's already happening. Continuing on denial about PvP simply by replying "No" on every PvP topic, is gonna do any difference.

PvP in Warframe is not going anywhere, There is no "Crusade". People who likes PvP don't have to convince you of anything, it's done already, PvP is here. 

 

Because people agree with him? Look, I didn't really want to post in this thread, as it seems to be nothing but problems for those who do, and to be honest I don't feel like beating a dead horse.

 

Besides, I don't see anything in the post you quoted as being especially "mindless", but it depends on the eye I guess, he stated his opinion, you don't agree, discuss, done deal, move on.