A Warning To De Regarding Ds 2.0 Pvp

[tehgreg]

I don't care if DE changes/adds/does whatever you can think of with PvP as long as they do not introduce PvP exclusive rewards. I don't want to miss out on cool stuff just because I don't want to deal with cheap tactics and trolls.

[TenshuYuusha]

Maybe people are afraid of this because it would require actual skill to play. I sincerely hope DE does this overhaul and does it right. If it sends a few people away, so be it because they were bound to leave anyway when shooting brain dead AI got old. It would bring in so many new players and bring back / keep a lot of older players

I think it may stem from most PvP media one sees does not exactly show skill within the realm of the game's design, but rather skill within the realm of using an exploit/s to one's advantage and that catching on to others and giving the developer no choice but to leave it there for varying reasons (Quickscoping in FPSs, K-style in GunZ, etc.).

If that kind of thing is minimal or just can't be done in Warframe PvP, that's a good thing, I always found tiers to be bs in head to head games, the battlefield should be balanced for experienced and fresh players alike, it gives the experienced player a reason to not hold back, and gives a probability for an upset for the newer player.

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

You want PVP k well here is what you will need

DEFAULT LOADOUTS:

Loadout 1:

Braton

Lato

Skana

 

Loadout 2:

Burston

Lex

scindo

 

Loadout 3:

grataka

aklata

amphis

 

These loadouts will have no mods or anything which will cause pvp to be skill entirely.

 

P.S

im totally against PVP in this game it should have never been added in the first place. Should have stayed in the dojo dueling arena where it belonged.

Sounds right to me, good post.

[Zaresin]

I see a lot of people against pvp. I am one of them however I am only against pvp when it starts messing with PVE which it always ends up doing due to a short sighted or just plain lazy dev team. That is why I hate pvp. Every game I have played they have always hurt the PVE side which is always the largest part of the game because of a certain build. If fixing that one build ever fixed the issue it wouldn't bother me but it is a never ending cycle of pvp plays crying NERF X or NERF Y.

Many games have been ruined by pvp we have all see it. I personally do not want to see half the frames or weapons nerfed into the ground as majority of our power come from mods so nearing mods have huge effects across the board. If DE gets it right then awesome, but from what I have seen that they can't even get the void tables right after every new prime....I don't trust them to ever get pvp balance right without majorly hurting PVE.

[grillv20]

I honestly thought this was going to be a thread about how they just revamped Dark Souls 2 gameplay with the latest patch for it.

[grillv20]

I see a lot of people against pvp. I am one of them however I am only against pvp when it starts messing with PVE which it always ends up doing due to a short sighted or just plain lazy dev team. That is why I hate pvp. Every game I have played they have always hurt the PVE side which is always the largest part of the game because of a certain build. If fixing that one build ever fixed the issue it wouldn't bother me but it is a never ending cycle of pvp plays crying NERF X or NERF Y.

Many games have been ruined by pvp we have all see it. I personally do not want to see half the frames or weapons nerfed into the ground as majority of our power come from mods so nearing mods have huge effects across the board. If DE gets it right then awesome, but from what I have seen that they can't even get the void tables right after every new prime....I don't trust them to ever get pvp balance right without majorly hurting PVE.

 

PVP and PVE should always be separate if its being played competitively. I am a believer that PVP can work in PVE environments only if they player actually is actually going into that situation knowing what they're getting into.

[Radford_343]

-snip-

 

Decided this wasn't worth spending my time on, original post removed,

Edited July 14, 2014 by Radford_343

[Zaresin]

PVP and PVE should always be separate if its being played competitively. I am a believer that PVP can work in PVE environments only if they player actually is actually going into that situation knowing what they're getting into.

I agree it should always be kept separate but is rarely done which always ends up ruining one in favor of the other.

[vaugahn]

PvP is going to be completely optional. End of story.

[Zaresin]

PvP is going to be completely optional. End of story.

 

It would appear the dark sectors are going PVP if theliset.com is to be interpreted correctly.  Won't know fully till wednesday (each day we get a new tile on theliset.com website counting down).  

[Marthrym]

They.

Already.

Do.

 

I really can't fathom how SO many people are ignorant that PvP seperate stats are the standard for many many games that have both PvE and PvP. Seriously, some of you people are so backward I feel like you just got here from 1980.

 

Sorry about coming off as mean. I'm not ragging on you in particular. It's just really insane how so many people on these forums are new to this.

They've been "balancing" PvE for what? A year and a half? And it's still broken as frack. I am FAR from ignorant on how PvP functions in general. I have done A LOT of competitive PvP. I'm just done with it because I was ultimately disgusted by it, that's all. That's MY PERSONAL OPINION on the subject, I'm not bashing anyone who thinks differently. Hell, I've even said that it just might actually bring good things to the PvE aspect!

 

I NEVER said I didn't want any PvP in Warframe. You, like SO MANY, ASSUMED that I did, without ANY base to support said assumption. My ONLY concern is PvP becoming MANDATORY because of the content/lore it might get that PvE would not, for the sake of twisting PvE players' arms into playing PvP to artificially make it "bigger". That's my issue with it. If it's done right, I will be happy for all the PvPers, not because hypocrisy dictates it, but because I used to be a big PvPer myself.

 

Fathom that.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Marthrym

[grillv20]

It would appear the dark sectors are going PVP if theliset.com is to be interpreted correctly.  Won't know fully till wednesday (each day we get a new tile on theliset.com website counting down).  

 

They said themselves that its going to be the pvp driven part of the game afterall. Next up we will have proxy wars which are supposed to be the pve endgame type stuff then the focus system which they said is going to be an endgame type of thing as well but like the name says its a system rather than an actual kind of activity I guess? lol

 

If you revisit some of the earlier dev streams they had said that the Solar Rails AKA bad lands which later became Dark Sectors is what they had planned for the PVP side of endgame. There will be more emphasis ALWAYS on PvE with this game.

Edited July 15, 2014 by grillv20

[Hixlysss]

Honestly the best way to balance it is to have weapons/mods that can only be used in PvP, and you can't use the other mods. Mainly because of the 1 minute long hysteria, rhino skin to mega levels, ect ect. Players will have to have their stuff...hard capped for PvP. Durations no more than 30% increase, damage capped at 100%, so on and so forth. It will piss people off, but we need it balanced, SPECIALLY for any form of objective based game mode like the conflicts, if it's for shiggles it's fine to be imbalanced, but if this is going to be a major thing with conflicts it has to...well "nerf" the players.

[grillv20]

Honestly the best way to balance it is to have weapons/mods that can only be used in PvP, and you can't use the other mods. Mainly because of the 1 minute long hysteria, rhino skin to mega levels, ect ect. Players will have to have their stuff...hard capped for PvP. Durations no more than 30% increase, damage capped at 100%, so on and so forth. It will &!$$ people off, but we need it balanced, SPECIALLY for any form of objective based game mode like the conflicts, if it's for shiggles it's fine to be imbalanced, but if this is going to be a major thing with conflicts it has to...well "nerf" the players.

 

At any rate I highly doubt that they will do any sort of balancing around pvp. When it comes to stuff like mod balancing they hardly ever touch them unless its actually completely over powered like how we had a 10 level aura slot mod that gave us tons of points to use when we slotted it. If the mod system were to be touched at all it would effect all areas of the game. That being said, as DE said before, this will primarily always be a PVE-centric game. While they have been putting a lot of work into the whole PVP side of the game I think they're just trying to establish what they really want PVP to mean in this game. Right now its pretty basic and not very engaging on a clan person to person level. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by grillv20

[Davoodoo]

Maybe you PvP vets can enlighten me, but I still don't see how any frame is going to be able to take more than one shot from a Slash + Toxic weapon.

I wonder how any frame can survive more than a second from any gun, mk1 included.

 

DS2.0 pvp is madness and i have no idea why DE wastes their time to implement it now.

[grillv20]

In a lot of shooting games it only takes a few shots to go down too. It will definitely be interesting in its first phases. I'm sure there will be a lot of balancing to look forward to lol. Doubt it will effect the whole game though.

Edited July 15, 2014 by grillv20

[Warriorrogue]

I wonder how any frame can survive more than a second from any gun, mk1 included.

 

DS2.0 pvp is madness and i have no idea why DE wastes their time to implement it now.

Mobility.

I suspect that'll be a lot of the survivability

And how you mod your frame.

[grillv20]

Mobility.

I suspect that'll be a lot of the survivability

And how you mod your frame.

 

This. Gotta go fast.

[Davoodoo]

In a lot of shooting games it only takes a few shots to go down too. It will definitely be interesting in its first phases. I'm sure there will be a lot of balancing to look forward to lol. Doubt it will effect the whole game though.

In most of shooting games you dont have powers which immobilize you for quite some time. Even then in those games you dont die from 1 blow from automatic weapons.

 

Mobility.

I suspect that'll be a lot of the survivability

And how you mod your frame.

If everything dies with 1 blow you will ofc pick most mobile frame.

So choice here is zephyr, loki, ash. With zephyr being victor in pure moblity while ash and loki have their invisibility.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Davoodoo

[grillv20]

In most of shooting games you dont have powers which immobilize you for quite some time. Even then in those games you dont die from 1 blow from automatic weapons.

 

If everything dies with 1 blow you will ofc pick most mobile frame.

So choice here is zephyr, loki, ash. With zephyr being victor in pure moblity while ash and loki have their invisibility.

 

Well, I guess this will just be another scenario where we have to pick the best frame for the job. 

[Davoodoo]

Well, I guess this will just be another scenario where we have to pick the best frame for the job. 

So choice is limited to fast frames and hitscan and/or automatic weapons, balance sux, using powers other than buffs gets you killed most of the time.

 

If that isnt madness idk what is.

[Liminal]

PvP is going to be completely optional. End of story.

I sure hope so, because if I have to play pvp to get a wraith or vandal weapon ... even an exclusive pvp syandana, I'll be extremely disappointed.

 

I signed up for WF almost 2 years ago because they said "coop pve shooter". I don't have anything against PvP unless it detracts from the original focus of the game.

[grillv20]

So choice is limited to fast frames and hitscan and/or automatic weapons, balance sux, using powers other than buffs gets you killed most of the time.

 

If that isnt madness idk what is.

 

There will most likely be some sort of blanketed pvp adjustments at some point in time. Its not all that bad though when you think about it. Lots of games have some sort of "meta" and not all frames are going to be entirely worthless just because they cant move fast. I think some frames will retain some of their utility in favor of blowing stuff up. Like a nyx for example. Just running in and pressing 4 and team mates unloading on her to make a huge bomb or something. Though I'm not sure how effective that would be since people could just run away from it lol. Maybe a couple of seconds in the air would be enough to get people. I bet trinity could do some mean stuff if worked right too.

Edited July 15, 2014 by grillv20

[grillv20]

I sure hope so, because if I have to play pvp to get a wraith or vandal weapon ... even an exclusive pvp syandana, I'll be extremely disappointed.

 

I signed up for WF almost 2 years ago because they said "coop pve shooter". I don't have anything against PvP unless it detracts from the original focus of the game.

 

disappointed about a pvp sydana? really? lol its not like you're forced to go into the market place and buy the stuff there either >_> its just cosmetic crap

 

I think if anything they will probably make these rail points the point where you actually PVP at and put PVE missions behind those railways. Why else would they have railways going to nowhere after all lol. Since they sort of want the commnunity as a whole participating in whose rail to take over and whose rails to support and all. I would imagine that this is what they wanted to begin with. Why have a bus going to nowhere afterall?

Edited July 15, 2014 by grillv20

[Davoodoo]

There will most likely be some sort of blanketed pvp adjustments at some point in time. Its not all that bad though when you think about it. Lots of games have some sort of "meta" and not all frames are going to be entirely worthless just because they cant move fast. I think some frames will retain some of their utility in favor of blowing stuff up. Like a nyx for example. Just running in and pressing 4 and team mates unloading on her to make a huge bomb or something. Though I'm not sure how effective that would be since people could just run away from it lol. Maybe a couple of seconds in the air would be enough to get people. I bet trinity could do some mean stuff if worked right too.

Meta is made to prevent designing single tactic which will pwn everything.

zephyr with turbulence and soma is 1 example of such tactic.

 

Also whole point is balancing stuff before pvp comes out. Thats why i consider this waste of time and resources to release it now.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Davoodoo