Sooo... Shock Eximus.

[CapricaSix]

Just do not get close to them. Their effect is only triggered at a rather low range. Blast them from afar.

It's 15 metres according to warframe.wikia. And there's no way of telling what kind of Eximus you're facing unless you take a moment and check his name in the middle of a heated battle surrounded by enemies. Then there's also the issue where some players prefer close/mid-range weapons and do some crowd control for the team or simply enjoy melee more than anything.

 

Shock Eximus ruins the gameplay experience regardless. There's no way of countering them other than simply "staying away", that's not a strategy, I'd say that's just bad design, that is what the thread was about if I'm not mistaken.

[Nkomo-Sama]

Just do not get close to them. Their effect is only triggered at a rather low range. Blast them from afar.

Careful this looks like helpful advice. Most likely not welcome here. This is more of a "yea man it sucks and I don't want to learn how to deal with it" kinda place. I am surprised you have not been drawn and quartered yet for telling people how to cope.

OH GOD THE SHOCK EXIMUS PURPLE MAGNETIC AURA CAN BE BLOCKED? OH GOD I'VE BEEN WRONG ALL THIS TIME

EVADE FIRST. IF THAT FAILS OR YOU FAIL AT IT.....BLOCK. THAT IS HOW YOU SURVIVE. NO MELEE? SEE THE QUOTE ABOVE YOURS. (also bring a melee weapon from now on it lets you BLOCK)

[Nkomo-Sama]

It's 15 metres according to warframe.wikia. And there's no way of telling what kind of Eximus you're facing unless you take a moment and check his name in the middle of a heated battle surrounded by enemies. Then there's also the issue where some players prefer close/mid-range weapons and do some crowd control for the team or simply enjoy melee more than anything.

 

Shock Eximus ruins the gameplay experience regardless. There's no way of countering them other than simply "staying away", that's not a strategy, I'd say that's just bad design, that is what the thread was about if I'm not mistaken.

Bad design or lazy brain player? I think it's great design and forces changes to the playstyle. I also think you (and maybe a few others) are mistaking an inability to adapt by a player as a poorly designed enemy. The shock eximi are far easier to deal with by us than say, Banshees silence is to deal with for them. We love Banshees silence and have been begging for it though. The eximi inhabit a 15m ball of magnetic disturbance that they use to disrupt enemies. They do that perfectly.

[Zeitzbach]

It's 15 metres according to warframe.wikia. And there's no way of telling what kind of Eximus you're facing unless you take a moment and check his name in the middle of a heated battle surrounded by enemies. Then there's also the issue where some players prefer close/mid-range weapons and do some crowd control for the team or simply enjoy melee more than anything.

 

Shock Eximus ruins the gameplay experience regardless. There's no way of countering them other than simply "staying away", that's not a strategy, I'd say that's just bad design, that is what the thread was about if I'm not mistaken.

 

Wow, the aura is green. I wonder if it's the Frost Eximus. /Sarcasm

 

-Do some crowd control for the team : That's exactly what you do to prevent Shock Eximus from stealing your energy. The moment the aura pops up, press 4 to CC the Shock Ex (You're saying your role is to CC anyway so it will likely knock everything down or slow them like Rhino stomp)

 

-Want to melee them : This kind of complaints is like listening to people complaining why they can't melee Toxic Ancient with Toxic aura.

 

If there's no way to counter Shock Exi butto stay away then I guess we can say the same for Toxic. You have to stay away or eat health damage. If you want to only melee and decide that you must melee a shock eximus, that's your own fault. That's like saying you want to use MK-1 Braton and Lato in T4.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Zeitzbach

[LukeAura]

We play in a game where world wide AoE costs only 25 energy when built.

 

I complained about him when I was playing Nekky because I had no AoE to fight. But then I grabbed my Oberon for actual solo grind instead and bam.

 

Here's how you deal with him.

 

Press 4 to CC. Now you have more than enough time to react. He only drains if you go within derp close range. The aura is a WARNING. If you cannot react and still copter around, that's your loss.

Making press 4 to CC and Ult spam even more important to survival? 

That is a playstyle we should be moving away from, not reinforcing.

 

 

U talk about losing energie every few seconds....

 

If u keep walking the whole time and if u are fast (fast enough to escape or kill them) u will have no problems. If u cant find them fast enough check your equip. 

Auras pulse periodically, they do not only activate a few seconds after one enters them. 

You can not guaranteeably avoid the aura because you may be entering the aura at the very last second. 

[LukeAura]

 

As for the time it takes, I've had the energy stolen within five seconds on a lot of occasions.

I think sometimes there's a delay in the effect showing up, probably host lag.

 

Mangetic Auras pulse periodically, they are not dictated by the presence of a player within them. 

You may have full time to anticipate, you may have no time at all. 

 

Edited July 8, 2014 by LukeAura

[AdunSaveMe]

You cannot kill them if you can't see them and don't know where they are.

 

How hard is that to understand? It's been said so many damn times in this thread already. Try actually reading some of the posts.

It's already been explained that there are many occasions where they are behind walls, through doors, on levels above you, etc.

 

But I'm glad you super skilled pros can magically kill any enemy regardless of what's in the way. Good for you!

 

Careful this looks like helpful advice. Most likely not welcome here. This is more of a "yea man it sucks and I don't want to learn how to deal with it" kinda place. I am surprised you have not been drawn and quartered yet for telling people how to cope.

Why are you still posting here? We've already discussed the points you constantly keep bringing up, and you're contributing nothing except "get good". Your comments aren't helping this discussion along, at all, nor is your apparent refusal to actually pay attention.

Edited July 8, 2014 by AdunSaveMe

[4RT1LL3RY]

I think all the eximus auras should just require line of sight to work.  Getting energy drained or magnetic proc'd through a ceiling or wall is not good design.  The fire eximus's explosion follows that rule, why not the rest?

 

Losing shields can be dealt with, losing all your energy is poor when its on a non-visible timer.  Give it something similar to Shockwave MOA's stomp so you can avoid it if you are not right next to it. but make it visible.

[Janzer]

I haven't seen anyone address melee fighting. Simply shooting something from afar isn't an answer, and having a pistol or rifle on hand still requires that fast switch. This is fine and all...if you have time. But generally the pace is frantic when I encounter the energy drainers, and you can only be situationally aware to a point.

 

The fact of the matter for melee fighters when fighting these enemies is: You will get hit. You will lose your energy.

 

The choice you have to make is how you handle the situation. I now run with a Rage+LifeStrike build when I'm playing melee only. This means that I know I will lose all my energy and for a brief period of time not be able to regain energy through orbs or through damage to my health (from Rage).

 

So the problem remains for melee fighters of, what to do after you:

1. spot the enemy

2. jump flip and ground slam the enemy to knock them down and proceed to pummel them to death

3. either kill all surrounding enemies within reach before they kill you while your shield and health remain

4. or you must either hide from the enemy, if you're lucky enough to do so, long enough to gain coverage and allow NOT your shields to recharge, but for the negative effect of not gaining energy to drop

 

shields do not matter to the ragelifestrike zerker

 

The point is, while removing all energy can be a method of causing chaos to the melee fighter, in long survival runs, when things are extremely hectic and bodies of enemies are stacked on the ground while the armies continue to roll in, it's rather hard to find a point of coverage or last long enough without any energy in order to survive.

 

Removing the ability to regain energy is a most certain death for melee fighters without cover options. This isn't all game play. This doesn't mean that things need to change in order to accommodate only melee fighters, it's simply more input in order to stop the "just simply shoot it from afar" super simplistic options for how to deal with certain enemies.

 

In a game were we are told we have the option to melee fight, I'm going to melee fight :D Interesting discussion all.

[CapricaSix]

Yeah yeah, we're lazy scrubs and you're hardcore skilled pros and the game is perfect (not beta at all) therefore every "feedback" is automatically "whining".

 

I haven't seen anyone address melee fighting. Simply shooting something from afar isn't an answer, and having a pistol or rifle on hand still requires that fast switch. This is fine and all...if you have time. But generally the pace is frantic when I encounter the energy drainers, and you can only be situationally aware to a point.

 

The fact of the matter for melee fighters when fighting these enemies is: You will get hit. You will lose your energy.

Oh but I did, apparently losing all your energy in an instant for no obvious reason other than being within 15m vicinity of a shock eximus is exactly same as hugging a toxic ancient. lol #2pro4us.

Edited July 8, 2014 by CapricaSix

[CapricaSix]

-accidental post... couldn't delete-

Edited July 8, 2014 by CapricaSix

[Yhonix]

Shock eximus are one of the few enemies that actually bring challenge to the game. The chance of losing all your energy is a risk that happens, and it forces a player to change their tactics to be successful. Yes, occasionally you can end up getting punked through a wall or caught out in a bad position. Bad luck can happen in any situation. A show of player skill is finding means to overcome this. Complaining that one specific tactic is not working against an enemy that is supposed to force a change in tactics is... ludicris!

 

I tend to run Valkyr (Rage/life build, not dissimilar to what Janzer runs. Probably lower level) and Mag (Corpus/Void only) in the survivals I do.

 

Thus far, there has been exactly one instance where I was caught in a bad position with Valk. It was up around 60 minutes in  a corpus survival and I got nailed by an eximus as I came out of hysteria. Rather than try and fight, I coptored out and kited until my energy was back!  It did cost me a downed team mamber (the reason I was hit by the drain in the first place. A shockwave Moa knocked me out of the revive.) but overall it didn't utterly cripple me in any way.

 

On my Mag, I'm reminded of one of my first 50min+ survivals. It was on earth, and I was partnered with a Saryn. Due to Mag's rather pathetic armor score I would get repeatedly ripped up if I let a Toxic ancient (who were spawning quite quickly at that point) get near me. After getting knocked down quite a few times and revived by my partner, I started shifing my tactics and following her. Her weapons were weaker than mine (or so it seemed), but rather than stay put, she would kite the infested down the long canyons of the map. Utilizing her decoy to distract them before cleaning up the bigger targets. By following her lead, we lasted quite a long time in the end!

 

My point is, if you are failing due to an enemy ability. It is likely YOUR tactics that need adjusted. Shock eximi are dangerous, certainly! Checking corners and staying within shouting distance of your teammates (especially a friendly Valkyr or Frost) can help immensely. Bringing a side-arm or primary to work alongside your primary melee can allow you to remove them at a distance, and being ready to copter out of a really bad situation (or, if you run a fist weapon, stunlock spam!)  can mean the difference between survival or death.

 

Does it suck to lose all your energy? Yes. Is it bad game design? No. It's a challenge, overcome it.

[LukeAura]

Shock eximus are one of the few enemies that actually bring challenge to the game. The chance of losing all your energy is a risk that happens, and it forces a player to change their tactics to be successful. Yes, occasionally you can end up getting punked through a wall or caught out in a bad position. Bad luck can happen in any situation. A show of player skill is finding means to overcome this. Complaining that one specific tactic is not working against an enemy that is supposed to force a change in tactics is... ludicris!

 

Does it suck to lose all your energy? Yes. Is it bad game design? No. It's a challenge, overcome it.

I've been hit several times without sight lines, without any indication of where it was coming from, around two corners not just one, and almost as soon as the Aura appeared on my feet due to its periodic nature. Just because you have had a not bad experience with it, doesn't mean everyone else has come in to a situation where the aura is cover the doorway in to a room from outside of a sightline. There is a problem with it, you have not faced that problem yet, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

If the change of tactic is hang back and wait for however long it takes until the enemy comes in view because you can't get around the aura, it's directly against the pacing and style of gameplay DE wants to set in there game. 

And is it bad game design? Yes, yes it is. Abilities are a tool in our arsenal, a powerful tool, but a tool nonetheless. As such they are part of our list of choices on how to handle any given situation. Situations and enemies should make our choices matter, not force us in to choices. The straight removal of a tool is a very dangerous power, when it was limited to the very melee focused faction with a very limited range of application that at least gave it some sense of balance. In the most powerful ranged enemy faction with hitscan weaponry where abilities are most vital, it is down right stupid to give them an even more potent form of it than its original implementation.

We can make situations less favourable to abilities such that people might forgo them altogether, but we still have that choice to make and can weight the risks and rewards on our own. Bringing our choice from pointless to no choice at all doesn't improve the quality of the game either.

[CapricaSix]

Does it suck to lose all your energy? Yes. Is it bad game design? No. It's a challenge, overcome it.

Gimping the game and calling it a "challenge" is an acquired taste it seems, actually no, rather an "opinion". I enjoy fighting tough enemies that float about and bombard you with annoying knockdown rockets, I enjoy meleeing all kinds of ancients including toxic and disruptors, I even enjoy the Gurstag Three when they're not being ridiculous, Stalker used to be a challenge, Zanuka was ok-ish as well, throwing some boss duos at the players was a challenge and FUN. A píss poor enemy that drains all your energy with its scifi magic and leaves you with your pants down isn't any more of a challenge than playing with your eyes closed for giggles or shooting high level enemies with a modless braton MK1 as I've said. It's fine if you're into that but know that many won't be fine with it.

 

Yhonix this isn't directed at you personally, just throwing it in the middle. You guys should stop imposing your so called strategies and tactics on others and accept that your way isn't the only way it's supposed to be (otherwise everyone will end up using Rhino P + Soma + Angstrum or some other god builds and sod everything else. #tactics). Saying "lol just stay away" is about the same as "stop playing the game then". You can "overcome" it and adapt to devs' shortcomings in 'creativity and innovation department', we'll give feedback and welcome any changes they may come up with as any half decent beta tester should, or give feedback on those changes as well whether it was for the better or the worse. Critique is a wonderful thing. Criticising criticism isn't helping anyone though.

 

Just to be clear, Shock Eximus doesn't kill me, he doesn't even harm me, I don't get hurt seriously just because I lost all my energy and that I rely on QT+R mod combos; it's simply, purely, completely, annoying, inconvenient, time-wasting, pace-disrupting (no pun), ultimately unnecessary. Do you know what else is unnecessary? Rollers. Do rollers actually hurt anyone? No. Is it a "challenge" to fight them because all they do is stagger you constantly and annoy you to no end? Not at all. Get my point? That's another bad game design and its been debated to death. There's absolutely no real difficulty in this but just annoyance. They fixed that by supersizing them, they'll probably fix Shock Eximus by giving it a huge flag and making it's aura super shiny and obvious most likely since bandaids seem to be how DE fix things. Dark Souls is what I'd call challenging, constant staggers and InstaEnergy-depletion isn't. :P

Edited July 8, 2014 by CapricaSix

[Zeitzbach]

Making press 4 to CC and Ult spam even more important to survival? 

That is a playstyle we should be moving away from, not reinforcing.

 

Okay my CC button is on 2 cause I'm a Nekro.

 

But like it or not, 4 to CC then SHOOT (not ult spam) is important because later on, you cannot go head-to-head with enemies in bigger waves or post-30. They start being too tanky and the room is flooded with the special units. It has nothing to do with Eximus.

 

That and Eximus punish people by temporary disabling 4 to CC button.

[Yhonix]

Gimping the game and calling it a "challenge" is an acquired taste it seems, actually no, rather an "opinion". I enjoy fighting tough enemies that float about and bombard you with annoying knockdown rockets, I enjoy meleeing all kinds of ancients including toxic and disruptors, I even enjoy the Gurstag Three when they're not being ridiculous, Stalker used to be a challenge, Zanuka was ok-ish as well, throwing some boss duos at the players was a challenge and FUN. A píss poor enemy that drains all your energy with its scifi magic and leaves you with your pants down isn't any more of a challenge than playing with your eyes closed for giggles or shooting high level enemies with a modless braton MK1 as I've said. It's fine if you're into that but know that many won't be fine with it.

 

-I find them no more bullS#&$ then the first time I fought Vor (solo) and got utterly wreaked by his tesla balls. I simply learned to adapt to that situation (and buffed up my redirection) and eventually defeated him with better tactics. You are mistaking challenge for poor game design, it's simple as that. YOUR opinion is that one enemy is too strong/annoying, and you simply refuse to adapt

-Poor game design would be an enemy that can instantly kill you with no warning and no windup. The only enemy that I can think of in Warframe that can do that is the Stalker, and he gives you AMPLE time to prepare to fight him.

 

Yhonix this isn't directed at you personally, just throwing it in the middle. You guys should stop imposing your so called strategies and tactics on others and accept that your way isn't the only way it's supposed to be (otherwise everyone will end up using Rhino P + Soma + Angstrum or some other god builds and sod everything else. #tactics). Saying "lol just stay away" is about the same as "stop playing the game then". You can "overcome" it and adapt to devs' shortcomings in 'creativity and innovation department', we'll give feedback and welcome any changes they may come up with as any half decent beta tester should, or give feedback on those changes as well whether it was for the better or the worse. Critique is a wonderful thing. Criticising criticism isn't helping anyone though.

-You (complainers as a group) are the one using sub-par tactic and getting upset when you run against an enemy that is designed to punish that sort of tactic. Mind, my preferred builds do not even include any of the weapons you mentioned! Personally, I run Mag/Valk, Dread, Afuris/Aklex, Obex/Glaive. That is by no means the standard rhino loadout. When I run into situations where I do not do well (getting swarmed by enemies in survival or defense is quite high up there!) I change my tactics according to the challenge! A good example would be running into 3-5 corrupted heavy gunners in the void. The Dread doesn't perform well there without near-perfect accuracy. Rather than rely fully on my weapons (which are outclassed in this situation), I will generally resort to knockdown tactics (Pull, or an Obex/Hysteria jump attack). Bullet Attractor+my secondary weapon also becomes an option if I'm playing in a team.

-Content should not be changed simply because a small subset of players refuse to look into alternative means to overcome an obsticle. If your tactics are not working, change them. You don't need to follow the flavor of the month, simply find a changed tactic that works.

 

 

Just to be clear, Shock Eximus doesn't kill me, he doesn't even harm me, I don't get hurt seriously just because I lost all my energy and that I rely on QT+R mod combos; it's simply, purely, completely, annoying, inconvenient, time-wasting, pace-disrupting (no pun), ultimately unnecessary. Do you know what else is unnecessary? Rollers. Do rollers actually hurt anyone? No. Is it a "challenge" to fight them because all they do is stagger you constantly and annoy you to no end? Not at all. Get my point? That's another bad game design and its been debated to death. There's absolutely no real difficulty in this but just annoyance. They fixed that by supersizing them, they'll probably fixing Shock Eximus by giving it a huge flag and making it's aura super shiny and obvious most likely since bandaids seem to be how DE fix things. Dark Souls is what I'd call challenging, constant staggers and InstaEnergy-depletion isn't. :P

-Dark Souls has far more, and worse, moves that utterly screw over the player. More than Warframe could possibly have. To note:

 

Dark Souls I

The Four Kings. (A nearly unblockable 30-40s grab animation that takes so long to complete that it summons an extra copy of said boss)

The flaming barrel in undeadburg (Granted, it's there to teach you situational awareness)

The bridge after Solaire (unless you are expecting it. Most new players simply are not. That game really does drive home the "screw the players" approach to gaming. In a good way.)

Havel (At least, until you know he is down there)

Lower Undead Burg (Unless you got the master key. Of course, new players don't generally KNOW to get said master key!)

The Capara Demon (Even after beating the game several times, I STILL die to this bastard a few times when I fight him.)

Bed of Chaos (This fight is the only boss fight in the game where progress is saved as you go. A clear indicator that you are expected to fail a few times here.)

DMB falchion builds

Dark Magic

 

Dark Souls II

That first bloody Heide knight.

The Bellfry

The Gutter

The Mirror Knight (He isn't so tough the first time... unless he summons a well-prepared red phantom to fight you.)

The Arena, for both PvP heavy covenants

Dual-Wielded Chameleon Avelyn in PvP (It has very few, mostly nonexistant counters)

Mundane sanatier's spear (At least it's melee.)

 

It's funny you even bother to bring up Dark Souls in this context, as you are essentially doing the same as the people who complain that bosses like the Capara Demon or players that use things like lightning spear are "unfair, unfun, and horrible." Learn to adapt to enemies that can cripple you. Virtually any decent build can do so with a paradim shift. Your complaints are unfounded, mostly because you refuse to adapt to a situation.

Comments in-line

Edited July 8, 2014 by Yhonix

[taiiat]

you may want to take a look at this, i went over and explained every single Leader type and how they affect the game, considering early and late game affects they have on Players.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/252743-comprehensive-examination-of-eximi-leaders/

They should just suppress power use until they are dealt with. None of this energy drain nonsense. 

that's an interesting idea, adding to my own 'megathread', which is the one listed above.

 

An insta-death is hard to counter. Almost impossible. A magnetic proc is not. We have discussed how and why at length. The debuff is not flawed in my opinion.

but he showed why something was a problem. your methods of dealing with that Enemy are after the fact, when Players are supposed to avoid something happening completely(if they are attentive and skilled / experienced to avoid it happening).

 

so, if being within an invisible range of an Enemy instantly killed you (or for the sake of argument, depleted Shields for 15 seconds, cancelled all active Abilities, depleted Stamina for 10 seconds, and reduced your Health to 1%), what would you do?

all you did was happen to be too close to that Enemy you couldn't see.

 

especially if you're playing far enough into the game for Rainbow Auras. good luck knowing how many Leaders are in the room to start with, let alone what types. oh yeah, and they're spawning behind you too.

 

Edit:

and to defuse the blind ankle biting that i'm sure will still come, you can see my opinions of Leaders / Eximi (hint, largely positive) in my thread linked above.

Edited July 8, 2014 by taiiat

[CapricaSix]

Yhonix, dude, the heide knight and the mirror knight, how on earth is that "bad game design" and THIS isn't (mindblown at the comparison)?! You're not making any sense to me now, I find him to be quite fun and challenging to fight against, even the other things you pointed out are perfectly fine by me, I'd only go as far as calling the Ancient Dragon and the Darklurker as bad game design but nothing more than that really, in both DS games. And what's wrong with Gutter?? >:O it's just a bit dark and lonely, it's basically Blighttown #2.

 

But then again all of these are opinions and personal preferences(!), like others have pointed out that just because you haven't came across a problem yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist for anyone else, and "get good" isn't really an acceptable argument here against this whole thing. There's this constant hostility where we're whining for the sake of whining and in return you guys are making excuses to gobble up whatever DE spits out as a perfect golden idea, there's no end to this.

 

Adapting is one thing, settling for mediocrity is another. But then again that is an opinion, I'm not presenting facts here but opinions based on personal experiences, and I'm saying its fine that you like a silly enemy that automatically depletes your energy as you go near it but don't go saying that I should either like it or leave it. What's challenging and what's not is subjective, copy/pasting bulletsponge enemies with damage and armour scaling as to increase (artificial) difficulty OR crippling the player so he/she will have to play in a certain way is objectively bad game design (EDIT: as was the inescapable stunlock balls we once had in the game, they were called latchers I believe, which DE removed because it was ridiculous. some people insisted on it being "challenging" simply because the majority was annoyed by it, ie: skillz, yet they removed it all the same as it was simply not fun to get stunlocked until a teammate shot it off your body or an enemy killed you. Essentially the same thing when you're surrounded by countless numbers of high level enemies in a tough situation and get all your powers and shield taken from you for no reason), Warframe is not Touhou or Super Mario.

 

I'm not really arguing or trying to change your mind about it though, feel free to disagree by all means, I respect that, I just don't agree with any of it. Still best not to impose.

Edited July 8, 2014 by CapricaSix

[F1UXie]

I really don't mind having my energy and shields taken away because it's not the end of the world. There are ways to overcome such a situation like using your guns, or throwing down an energy restore.

 

What really bothers me about the Shock Eximus is not the Magnetic Proc that it inflicts upon you, it's the way that it's delivered. As other have posted, it's an aura that extends through walls and does not require a line of sight. Every time I see a Shock Eximus they are easy to deal with. It's when they suddenly hit you through a wall or a ceiling that makes them frustrating. Even if it's only a minor nuisance I would prefer if this attack was telegraphed better than it is.

 

A simple dome showing the full radius of the aura would help greatly. That or give it an EMP attack that you can outrun similar to the fire Eximus. This enemy is just boring compared to ones like the Arctic or Fire Eximus. At least those have unique abilities. What does the Shock Eximus have? A simple Aura. That's it.

 

Heck, I would find it more fun if the gun the Shock Eximus has equipped always granted a 100% magnetic status Proc compared to an aura that sucker punches me around corners. 

 

To be honest they remind me more of the Broken Lights than anything. Those were fine when you could see them and take them out, but every so often you'd have one behind a door that would zap you without warning. 

 

 

TL;DR Keep the magnetic proc. Make the attack more telegraphed. Give it line of sight.