I Would Like To Thank Steve For Throwing Down The Mic On The Mods And Joining The Scott Side Of The Void.

[Mak_Gohae]

You missed the point. The point was you had to build specifically against a level 25 enemy that would have one shot you if you hadn't built to counter it.

 

How did you get that a rank 25 enemy was doing 27 per tic when before the nerf a rank 25 enemy was doing 13 per tic on a rank 2 antitoxin that has a 22.5% resistance?

 

Mak, it is literally impossible to be paying attention to a full 360 degrees and be on the watch for the ospery. Don't act like people are simply closing their eyes and ignoring everything,. They're not, they simply aren't looking in the right direction the split second the ospery decides to charge is all.

 

This is the point of game, dont get get killed by the enemy and you folks are saying...

 

1. Get rid of useless mods.

2. When a new enemy comes into play where a mod can help alleviate pressure a bit you scream about being "forced" to use those useless mods. 

3.So you want an enemy that can kill if you are not paying attention, AKA pretty much everything in the game, to be taken out because you dont want to be killed when you are not paying that much attention.

 

Do you know how goofy this sounds?

This is why Steve reacted like he did, this is what he is getting all day.

Get rid of mods i dont use!

Stop making use mods i dont use!

You guys are like an evil version of the Yin Yang.

[Xylia]

This is the point of game, dont get get killed by the enemy and you folks are saying...

 

1. Get rid of useless mods.

2. When a new enemy comes into play where a mod can help alleviate pressure a bit you scream about being "forced" to use those useless mods. 

3.So you want an enemy that can kill if you are not paying attention, AKA pretty much everything in the game, to be taken out because you dont want to be killed when you are not paying that much attention.

 

You're the King of Completely Missing The Point.

 

Seriously, dude.

 

What they've been saying in this thread, is that the Toxin Resistance Mod was useless before, sure. Along comes this ONE enemy that pretty much forces you to use it. You have to dump something else off of your warframe (thus gimping your power by a huge margin) to put this on it.

 

.....for.......ONE........enemy in the entire map. One enemy that has an attack so overpowered it'll kill you in <2 seconds without this mod. It might be different if there were more enemies where this mod would actually matter against. That might be different. Then it wouldn't feel like a band-aid (the enemy being placed in the game for the sole purpose of making the mod useful).

Edited July 7, 2014 by Xylia

[Mak_Gohae]

You're the King of Completely Missing The Point.

 

Seriously, dude.

 

What they've been saying in this thread, is that the Toxin Resistance Mod was useless before, sure. Along comes this ONE enemy that pretty much forces you to use it. You have to dump something else off of your warframe (thus gimping your power by a huge margin) to put this on it.

 

.....for.......ONE........enemy in the entire map. One enemy that has an attack so overpowered it'll kill you in <2 seconds without this mod. It might be different if there were more enemies where this mod would actually matter against. That might be different. Then it wouldn't feel like a band-aid (the enemy being placed in the game for the sole purpose of making the mod useful).

 

No you are missing the point.

 

The mod is not required.

The mod is not required.

The mod is not required.

 

The mod is there if you cannot, for whatever reason, prioritize the unit and stop it from becoming a factor in the fight.

Like Scott said, these "bandaid" mods are there for people that cannot ninja as well as others.

 

BTW, there are 3 units that hit you with poison that by the time they can kill in less that two seconds everything else pretty much can as well.

[notionphil]

 

This is the point of game, dont get get killed by the enemy and you folks are saying...

 

1. Get rid of useless mods.

2. When a new enemy comes into play where a mod can help alleviate pressure a bit you scream about being "forced" to use those useless mods. 

3.So you want an enemy that can kill if you are not paying attention, AKA pretty much everything in the game, to be taken out because you dont want to be killed when you are not paying that much attention.

 

Those are extreme, whiner points. Those are NOT the points of progressive, logical players who want to improve WF.

 

Some small subset of vocal people may be saying the above. So, yes, Steve's reply was a reasonable response to THOSE people.

 

However, this is the problems with both you, Mak, and the devstreams. Neither of you want to fix issues, instead you want to make the point that the game is fine, and you are correct about everything. The easiest way to do that is to argue against the most extreme point possible.

 

There is a middle ground which you can't find by refuting only the most extreme whiner points, like those you listed. In that middle ground you find small, reasonable improvements which make WF a better place where community rolls aren't steadly dropping, where friends we bring to the game stay, and where we play for more than a few hours after each update to get the new swag.

 

These are points like:

 

"hmm, what exactly is the benefit of making mods which are far less valuable in combat situations than others"

 

"players indicate that they would prefer to use skill/timing based mechanics to avoid punishment (knockdowns/procs) instead of RNG. What effect would that have on the game?"

 

"there is a middle ground between trivially easy, and being killed by one contact with a tiny, flying enemy with a broken hitbox, that can spawn in a room you just cleared. Lets create a level of challenge so that you only die in WF if you make a mistake"

 

"players enjoy feeling like they are customizing their weapons and frames to be more effective in specific situation, not putting on required mods to avoid a guaranteed death, which can occur at random"

 

This is the key problem with devstreams. Until we get a true back-and-forth with a reasonable player and a dev, we'll always get replies to extreme outlier positions, not real answers.

[Mak_Gohae]

Those are extreme, whiner points. Those are NOT the points of progressive, logical players who want to improve WF.

 

Some small subset of vocal people may be saying the above. So, yes, Steve's reply was a reasonable response to THOSE people.

 

However, this is the problems with both you, Mak, and the devstreams. Neither of you want to fix issues, instead you want to make the point that the game is fine, and you are correct about everything. The easiest way to do that is to argue against the most extreme point possible.

 

There is a middle ground which you can't find by refuting only the most extreme whiner points, like those you listed. In that middle ground you find small, reasonable improvements which make WF a better place where community rolls aren't steadly dropping, where friends we bring to the game stay, and where we play for more than a few hours after each update to get the new swag.

 

 

Correct, they are whiner points, how can people ask to get rid of "useless" mods because they refuse to use them even on the occasions where they would be helpful?

 

That's the problem here. In a game where you can switch your equipment on the fly there is a group of people that dont. Now, i understand that switching is bothersome and they need to fix the UI for that, i have been calling for that for a long time because i switch up stuff constantly, but that doesnt mean you should not do it ever.

 

The problem here is that this game is about the Mod system and people dont want to use the mod system.

 

These are points like:

 

"hmm, what exactly is the benefit of making mods which are far less valuable in combat situations than others"

 

The mod system lets you switch you equipment whenever you want, you are supposed to have equipment against each faction. You should not be rolling with the same mods everywhere. There are actually a handful of mods that are actually useless like that hacking mod. The rest actually come into play in certain situations, that's the thing, you dont have to use a mod 24/7. I've used diamond skin on tremendously high Corpus alerts, it actually helps, but outside of that it's locked up. And that doesnt mean it's bad.

 

"players indicate that they would prefer to use skill/timing based mechanics to avoid punishment (knockdowns/procs) instead of RNG. What effect would that have on the game?"

 

It would make the game easier.

Right now the road stops when you get hit. If you are get hit you already messed up.

Come on, this Super Mario Bros simple.

 

But not that this matters now since Scott said that they are now going to have timed recoveries so let's see what this is going to do. If you folks want to save this post for future reference of my prophetic abilities... if you can now get up as fast as you can with the mods people are going to complain about those mods being useless. They will also complain about how fighting certain faction i going to be easier so DE adds a thing that makes them tougher that doesnt have an easy out and people will flip-out about it. And i will making post giving tips about how to get around this new thing which will be ignored by most people who dont actually feel like putting that extra work. 

 

Seriously, bookmark it, predicting the reaction is not that hard. But i live for the moments when one of my tips reaches even one of you and that one putw those tips to use. Like when i suggested using Radial Disarm to knock the MOspreys down and one poster was all super happy that it worked. I live for those moments.

 

"there is a middle ground between trivially easy, and being killed by one contact with a tiny, flying enemy with a broken hitbox, that can spawn in a room you just cleared. Lets create a level of challenge so that you only die in WF if you make a mistake"

 

By the time the MOSprey could kill you trivially easy the rest of the units can as well so let's stop this silliness.

If you are running with that little life against that high of rank enemies you were going to die from any solid hit.

 

"players enjoy feeling like they are customizing their weapons and frames to be more effective in specific situation, not putting on required mods to avoid a guaranteed death, which can occur at random"

 

Min/maxers will always min/max, there will never be a solution next to just giving you premade characters and even at that point they will just pick the "best option"

 

Min/maxers saying they dont want to min/max so fix the game so they dont min/max while not wanting to stop  min/maxing is kind of hilarious. I dont even know what exactly they are asking for.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

How did you get that a rank 25 enemy was doing 27 per tic when before the nerf a rank 25 enemy was doing 13 per tic on a rank 2 antitoxin that has a 22.5% resistance?

My bad, it was only dealing 148.5 damage then, which is still roughly half of most frames HP, or more (i.e. loki). If it dealt 56 on the initial tick, then proc'd, any frame with 300 or less HP is dead. Nothing they can do will save them, they just took over 300 damage. (currently it's dealing 33, no mods)

 

And lets not forget that the enemies don't just charge once. They charge over and over, leaving trail after trail of the stuff, making it harder and harder to avoid.

 

 

This is the point of game, dont get get killed by the enemy and you folks are saying...

 

1. Get rid of useless mods.

2. When a new enemy comes into play where a mod can help alleviate pressure a bit you scream about being "forced" to use those useless mods. 

3.So you want an enemy that can kill if you are not paying attention, AKA pretty much everything in the game, to be taken out because you dont want to be killed when you are not paying that much attention.

 

Do you know how goofy this sounds?

This is why Steve reacted like he did, this is what he is getting all day.

Get rid of mods i dont use!

Stop making use mods i dont use!

You guys are like an evil version of the Yin Yang.

1. No one is saying remove the bad mods (unless they really can't be saved, none of which come to mind other than intruder. Even then they could just rework it and add some challenge to hacking), or to remove the mods they don't use. What people are asking for is for the mods to be worth taking. I.e., if they rolled all resistances mods into one, and made you immune to the damage instead of just reducing it, then added more enemies that used elemental damage, the mod would probably see some use. (Note, it doesn't need to be that extreme of a buff)

 

2. ONE enemy requires you to use the mods. ONE poorly designed, unfair, punishing enemy. ONE enemy that charges in a split second, that leaves an AoE death field, and does it more than once.

 

3. No, people want there to be a fair challenge. I.e., not being punished because I didn't maintain 360 degrees of awareness at all times, and was able to react instantly to the half second or so warning the enemy gives. Oh, and I better hope I didn't pick a fight in any one of the numerous corridors that make up the game too, because nothing will save me then.

 

"Stop making use mods i dont use!"

No, rather just make them worth using in the first place. Aviator for example. While in air, you take 20% less damage. Cool, except that unless you take a lot of damage, it's meaningless. Zephyr has 922.5 effective HP. With a max rank aviator, it goes up to 1107. A redirection of the same mod cost brings the effective HP up to 1170. And doesn't require you to be in air. (Oh, and vitality brings it up 1606.5 (including armor))

 

Warm coat: If we knew before hand if a mission was icey, and if it completely prevented (or cost waaay less, like, gave you mod points, and another slot) it'd be worth using. But no one will take a mod that might give them 12% more shields back for nine mod points. And that's if the mission is icey.

Edited July 7, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[notionphil]

 

The mod system lets you switch you equipment whenever you want, you are supposed to have equipment against each faction.

 

"Want to beat X? Use Y equipment"

 

Boring.

[Nagisawa]

Can we please stop arguing with Mak?  He doesn't get it, because he DOESN'T WANT TO GET IT.  Let him have this post.  Let him 'win' and let's focus on other topics which have well thought out feedback, rather than points that will be taken out of context and made into strawmen.

 

Let this thread die.  Nothing productive is being done here.

[steak]

^

^^^^^^^^^^

 

I read some mod system suggestion threads and honestly while some have their plus points, the majority make me cringe in their limitations.

 

This. A hundred thousand times this.

 

I miss the good old days when games were a challenge, not frameworks for "customization" and "playstyles".

 

Sorry for barging in. I will be going now.

[Monolake]

I sometimes wonder if DEL even bothers to do the math when making mods. Half of the channelling mods are not worth ever equipping.

 

The system is not the problem. Its all in the particular implementation and balancing. 

 

And why keep on releasing more damage mods?

Edited July 7, 2014 by Monolake

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I sometimes wonder if DEL even bothers to do the math when making mods. Half of the channelling mods are not worth ever equipping.

 

The system is not the problem. Its all in the particular implementation and balancing. 

It's partly the system, nothing will ever replace base damage mods, simply because of how they work with elemental damage mods. Nothing will replace elemental damage mods because they give a ridiculously huge amount of damage compared to their mod cost. That more or less locks weapons down. A few will get reload mods (bows mostly), a few might get ammo mutation (grakata, soma, vipers, furis, any high fire rate weapon really).

 

Frames have more choice, but not by much. They have 4 slots with an ability polarity (more or less locking those slots away from mods due to the increase in mod cost), most frames need 1-2 survivability mods (5-6/10), and then they need around 2-3 mods to make the abilities they take better (7-8/10). More if they want to take corrupted mods, less if they use fewer abilities/one aspect of the ability (i.e. stomp's CC). Either way, you end up with 1-2 "free" slots for mods. If it's a slow frame though, you're probably gonna want to take rush if you're not taking a coptering weapon.

[Mak_Gohae]

My bad, it was only dealing 148.5 damage then, which is still roughly half of most frames HP, or more (i.e. loki). If it dealt 56 on the initial tick, then proc'd, any frame with 300 or less HP is dead. Nothing they can do will save them, they just took over 300 damage. (currently it's dealing 33, no mods)

 

And lets not forget that the enemies don't just charge once. They charge over and over, leaving trail after trail of the stuff, making it harder and harder to avoid.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's the thing that i called the actual problem with the unit, the proc can be added again so it would just reset and could continue on and on. I suggested somewhere, but i think it was too late, that the proc should only be applied once and after it ends then you are vulnerable to another one.. That way you get a chance to run to a safe spot without getting 30 seconds of poison because you ran though another, etc,etc.

 

1. No one is saying remove the bad mods (unless they really can't be saved, none of which come to mind other than intruder. Even then they could just rework it and add some challenge to hacking), or to remove the mods they don't use. What people are asking for is for the mods to be worth taking. I.e., if they rolled all resistances mods into one, and made you immune to the damage instead of just reducing it, then added more enemies that used elemental damage, the mod would probably see some use. (Note, it doesn't need to be that extreme of a buff)

 

And antitoxin wasnt worth it? It's the infested you are fighting here. All they do is charge you. All you really need is life.

This was the eeeeeeeasiest decision ever when it came to switching mods.

 

I dont know how elemental damage works on the different elements but if it's applied different one mod wont work because it could end up being more effective to one element than to others. That's probably the reason why there are different element mods.

 

2. ONE enemy requires you to use the mods. ONE poorly designed, unfair, punishing enemy. ONE enemy that charges in a split second, that leaves an AoE death field, and does it more than once.

 

There's 3 infested enemies that can kill you with poison.

 

3. No, people want there to be a fair challenge. I.e., not being punished because I didn't maintain 360 degrees of awareness at all times, and was able to react instantly to the half second or so warning the enemy gives. Oh, and I better hope I didn't pick a fight in any one of the numerous corridors that make up the game too, because nothing will save me then.

 

You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more smarter than the enemy...i think it's fair right now.

You should develop tactics around how to get through this. It's really not that difficult. All the infested unit just run at you, that means you can coral them.

 

"Stop making use mods i dont use!"

No, rather just make them worth using in the first place. Aviator for example. While in air, you take 20% less damage. Cool, except that unless you take a lot of damage, it's meaningless. Zephyr has 922.5 effective HP. With a max rank aviator, it goes up to 1107. A redirection of the same mod cost brings the effective HP up to 1170. And doesn't require you to be in air. (Oh, and vitality brings it up 1606.5 (including armor))

 

Yeah, Aviator is another. I think Zeph was actually supposed to be floating at all times but that idea was dropped because that is seriously one of those mods that have extremely little use.

 

Warm coat: If we knew before hand if a mission was icey, and if it completely prevented (or cost waaay less, like, gave you mod points, and another slot) it'd be worth using. But no one will take a mod that might give them 12% more shields back for nine mod points. And that's if the mission is icey.

 

Yeah, i have also said that they should give you some ability to figure this out for that mod. I suggested sending in a Sentinel to scout so he could figure out the conditions of the missions. Maybe this could be done with Nightmare Missions, have them add more conditions than just no shields. And you can also use this Sentinel Scout to stop people from backing out of missions because they didnt get the "right" conditions. Have it so when you scout out a missions the conditions are locked for 10 minutes. So if you get ice you are stuck with ice.

[Mak_Gohae]

"Want to beat X? Use Y equipment"

 

Boring.

 

??? So you dont like elemental dmg?

Cause.... this has been in the game for a long time now. And became more of an thing with DMG 2.0

And isn't boring to use the same weapons for everything?

The beauty of this system is that you dont have to do it, but if you dont, dont complain about the stuff you dont use.

 

 

Can we please stop arguing with Mak?  He doesn't get it, because he DOESN'T WANT TO GET IT.  Let him have this post.  Let him 'win' and let's focus on other topics which have well thought out feedback, rather than points that will be taken out of context and made into strawmen.

 

Let this thread die.  Nothing productive is being done here.

 

Hey, dude, could you stop posting this?

This would be fine if it was the first time you did but all you do is go around posting the same thing.

Discuss the point not the posters. If you continue on i am just going to report these posts because they are the same.

[Monolake]

It's partly the system, nothing will ever replace base damage mods, simply because of how they work with elemental damage mods. Nothing will replace elemental damage mods because they give a ridiculously huge amount of damage compared to their mod cost. That more or less locks weapons down. A few will get reload mods (bows mostly), a few might get ammo mutation (grakata, soma, vipers, furis, any high fire rate weapon really).

 

Frames have more choice, but not by much. They have 4 slots with an ability polarity (more or less locking those slots away from mods due to the increase in mod cost), most frames need 1-2 survivability mods (5-6/10), and then they need around 2-3 mods to make the abilities they take better (7-8/10). More if they want to take corrupted mods, less if they use fewer abilities/one aspect of the ability (i.e. stomp's CC). Either way, you end up with 1-2 "free" slots for mods. If it's a slow frame though, you're probably gonna want to take rush if you're not taking a coptering weapon.

 

Because weapons have only few characteristics main of which is - yeah right - damage. Any system of weapon modding is about DPS. Or you make a rigid skill tree where utility modifications are shoehorned, how is that any more interesting?  

 

DEL needs to rebalance some mods and some weapons, not revamp the system.

 

Frame builds are quite diverse because there are more characteristics and the corrupted mods compromise.  Weapons corrupted mods are poorly balanced for the most part. Just lvl6 (or even maxed) heavycaliber on everything and other mods are crap. 

 

http://i59.tinypic.com/2enlthv.jpg

Edited July 7, 2014 by Monolake

[KvotheTheArcane1]

There's 3 infested enemies that can kill you with poison.

Only one of which gives no warning. Only one of which is small, fast, has a wonky hitbox, and gives no indication of when it'll leave an AoE of death, regardless if it's alive or dead (remember, they changed toxics so the cloud was around only if they were alive)

[notionphil]

??? So you dont like elemental dmg?

Cause.... this has been in the game for a long time now. And became more of an thing with DMG 2.0

And isn't boring to use the same weapons for everything?

The beauty of this system is that you dont have to do it, but if you dont, dont complain about the stuff you dont use.

 

 

No, I don't like how elemental damage is essentially geared towards a specific faction.

 

However, at least the choices aren't 100% clear cut bc of armor types. That makes more choices "arguable". EX: Elec, Viral, Mag vs Corpus...all have their pros and cons.

 

"Isn't it boring to use the same weapons against everything?"

 

Who suggested that? Certainly not me. Rather than hardcode which weapon is good against which faction, I'd suggest to make weapons better in different situations and for different playstyles, as I suggested in Balance 2.0 proposal.

 

It's OK to have a certain amnt of 'factional' min-max but when it gets too extreme (75% bonus dmg for example) it just becomes the choice between a handicap or not.

 

Overall, I'd like to see players choosing between options based on what they like/enjoy, as opposed to what the game gives a hardcoded bonus in this situation, or what will prevent you from getting one-hit-KOd.

Edited July 7, 2014 by notionphil

[5Billion]

Mak Gohae just stop...

 

Everything you've said up to this point just baffles the S#&amp;&#036; out of me. Like I really don't see how you even believe what you do. You're using pure emotions and attachment to DE to support whatever you say, and it just doesn't flow right. Not one thing you've said has gained any support from the community on this thread.

 

Just like Nagisawa said, you can't admit you're wrong either.

[DiabolusUrsus]

??? So you dont like elemental dmg?

Cause.... this has been in the game for a long time now. And became more of an thing with DMG 2.0

And isn't boring to use the same weapons for everything?

The beauty of this system is that you dont have to do it, but if you dont, dont complain about the stuff you dont use.

 

Nope, I really don't like elemental damage in its current form. To be interesting, elemental damage should be a literal tradeoff tied to specific circumstances with noticeable auxiliary effects that make them worth considering. I want the element to be an attractive option because of its proc, not necessarily its damage multiplier. 

 

Where does the veterancy of a specific aspect of gameplay hold any weight? I never thought I'd be saying this so matter-of-factly, but... the game is beta. This is the time we're supposed to be weeding out poorly designed and semi-vestigial mechanics. Elemental damage builds fall into the "poorly designed" category. 

 

It doesn't get boring to use the same weapons for everything if you really like using those weapons. In a game like Warframe where you either pay twenty-some-odd dollars or wait 12 to 24 hours between weapons, needing specific weapons to overcome specific challenges is a bad idea, plain and simple. 

 

Wow. That is the first time I have seen someone praise false choice and believe it so completely. "You don't have to play by these specific rules, but if you don't, you don't get to complain about how broken the game is." Wow. Okay. 

[notionphil]

 I want the element to be an attractive option because of its proc, not necessarily its damage multiplier. 

 

I was incredibly disappointed when I first saw the massive enemy multipliers for this very reason.

 

Steve talked up the procs so much...and then basically released the initial system where you were giving up 50% bonus damage if you didn't use the damage type they specified against that faction.

 

"Look at all of these cool procs you can choose between if you want to deal 50% less damage!"

[Mak_Gohae]

Only one of which gives no warning. Only one of which is small, fast, has a wonky hitbox, and gives no indication of when it'll leave an AoE of death, regardless if it's alive or dead (remember, they changed toxics so the cloud was around only if they were alive)

 

Unless they randomly spawn behind you, all units are introduced the same exact way, from a long distance they come at you. And, in fact, the MOsprey is the slowest, the Ancient charge from far away while the MOsprey need to target you first before they charge. The Ancients come in attacking while the MOspreys dont.

 

The hitbox was fixed and with the infested, since they group up, you can use wide spread weapons which never had a problem with the hitbox. It makes a specific noise while it performs specific motions before the charges . And they change the Toxics because of the pod.

 

 

No, I don't like how elemental damage is essentially geared towards a specific faction.

 

However, at least the choices aren't 100% clear cut bc of armor types. That makes more choices "arguable". EX: Elec, Viral, Mag vs Corpus...all have their pros and cons.

 

But this is how elemental effects are usually put into effect, the element hurts certain things more than others.

 

"Isn't it boring to use the same weapons against everything?"

 

Who suggested that? Certainly not me. Rather than hardcode which weapon is good against which faction, I'd suggest to make weapons better in different situations and for different playstyles, as I suggested in Balance 2.0 proposal.

 

It's OK to have a certain amnt of 'factional' min-max but when it gets too extreme (75% bonus dmg for example) it just becomes the choice between a handicap or not.

 

Overall, I'd like to see players choosing between options based on what they like/enjoy, as opposed to what the game gives a hardcoded bonus in this situation, or what will prevent you from getting one-hit-KOd.

 

I dont understand this section, what weapon you use is different than what mods you use.

You can use whatever weapons you want against whatever factions. Some weapons give you certain benefits but weapons have never really been an issue.

 

And for the 12313213th time, by the time you are getting one-hit killed by something there are other things that could do the same.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Because weapons have only few characteristics main of which is - yeah right - damage. Any system of weapon modding is about DPS. Or you make a rigid skill tree where utility modifications are shoehorned, how is that any more interesting?  

 

DEL needs to rebalance some mods and some weapons, not revamp the system.

 

Frame builds are quite diverse because there are more characteristics and the corrupted mods compromise.  Weapons corrupted mods are poorly balanced for the most part. Just lvl6 (or even maxed) heavycaliber on everything and other mods are crap. 

 

http://i59.tinypic.com/2enlthv.jpg

 

 

I think it's not just the corrupt mods which cause problems, it's how they function with certain warframe powers, powers which ignore one of the criteria on duration, damage, efficiency etc. Rhino Stomp's guaranteed 8 second duration Or Nova's MP in combination with fleeting exp the most prominent example. Combine that with the imbalance in corrupt mods you're going to get problems, given that the inherent drawback in that mod is simply ignored entirely or mitigated to a stupid degree. 

 

The weapons themselves though, yeah, there's big problems. Boltor Prime apparently has lower accuracy than the standard Boltor given the description, that's news to me because I see no difference between them hence Heavy Calibur is so stupidly powerful when stacked with serration and a Boltor Prime/ Some etc. why would anyone ever use anything else? That's what gets me when they say on the dev stream that things are fine. No, no they're really not. 

[notlamprey]

I want the element to be an attractive option because of its proc, not necessarily its damage multiplier. 

 

Ditto. I'd be okay with damage multipliers of a certain range - let's say plus or minus 5/10/15%, just to start testing. That part of Damage 2.0 is still far from where I think it ought to be.

[SlyBoots]

Actually in warframe is no need for "skill". You need good strategies for different mission types.

strategy is everything.

more (formad) warframes/weapons+ mod variety = more possibilities to solve a "problem".

 

The only skills you need are movement and dodging skills.

 

QFT

 

it's about team composition, i.e. frames and builds and how they interact. the corrupted mods helped define some specialized roles. but there are still useless mods nonetheless and some one-trick-pony-frames like nekros.

 

all they would need to do is roll out mods with even bigger impact on how certain skills or frame/weapon stats work, extreme examples would maybe be some of d3's runes. think life strike for melee or a viable retribution.

Edited July 7, 2014 by SlyBoots

[Mak_Gohae]

Nope, I really don't like elemental damage in its current form. To be interesting, elemental damage should be a literal tradeoff tied to specific circumstances with noticeable auxiliary effects that make them worth considering. I want the element to be an attractive option because of its proc, not necessarily its damage multiplier. 

 

Where does the veterancy of a specific aspect of gameplay hold any weight? I never thought I'd be saying this so matter-of-factly, but... the game is beta. This is the time we're supposed to be weeding out poorly designed and semi-vestigial mechanics. Elemental damage builds fall into the "poorly designed" category. 

 

It doesn't get boring to use the same weapons for everything if you really like using those weapons. In a game like Warframe where you either pay twenty-some-odd dollars or wait 12 to 24 hours between weapons, needing specific weapons to overcome specific challenges is a bad idea, plain and simple. 

 

Wow. That is the first time I have seen someone praise false choice and believe it so completely. "You don't have to play by these specific rules, but if you don't, you don't get to complain about how broken the game is." Wow. Okay. 

 

Procs were taken down because before this all that the enemies did was dance around until they died.

 

I never said anyone needed to play by any specific rules, in fact, i am the one saying the total opposite.

I am the one saying you dont need Shields, Flow, etc, in every build. You can put one or two mods you dont normally use and it's not the end of the world.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[DiabolusUrsus]

I was incredibly disappointed when I first saw the massive enemy multipliers for this very reason.

 

Steve talked up the procs so much...and then basically released the initial system where you were giving up 50% bonus damage if you didn't use the damage type they specified against that faction.

 

"Look at all of these cool procs you can choose between if you want to deal 50% less damage!"

 

HNGH. This. This so much. 

 

I agree that zamboni's thread was taking things a little bit too far. The modding system itself (slotting cards onto weapons/Warframes as they rank up to augment them with various abilities) is not in any desperate need of alteration, and Steve was definitely correct in claiming that there was a lot of potential for customization inherent to the system. 

 

The problem is not "Warframe does not require any skill, only mods." That's not true. The problem is that there is too much of an emphasis on mods as a replacement for skill. The difference between an unmodded weapon and a fully modded weapon is simply too vast. A weapon should grow stronger as it ranks up, and by the time it reaches 30 "unmodded" should be a legitimate customization in its own right. When mods aren't absolutely necessary to make a weapon viable, then they can be called part of a true customization system, and the concept of "essential" mods will more or less disappear, which will in turn make RNG nearly inconsequential when it comes to drops.