Mirage Eclipse Is Dissapointing.

[_Chaser]

Ok, I assume that when you are sitting in a dark spot, you get a visual effect around you to show a "cloaking" effect or something.

 

So if the ability is supposed to work and make you harder to see, would it not work exactly like Loki, as in, if you have already been spotted, then it shouldn't work, I mean, they know you're there.

 

Are you saying that if you activate it in darkness AND stay in darkness you get spotted as usual?

 

Can you give an example of where the effect fails?

 

i sit crouched in dark with smoke effect around me, and enemies do spot me on very same distance as if i wasn't using this ability at all.

EDIT: actually maxed out eclipse

 

i may upload couple of videos tomorrow

Edited July 19, 2014 by n7snk

[DSpite]

i sit crouched in dark with smoke effect around me, and enemies do spot me on very same distance as if i wasn't using this ability at all.

 

i may upload couple of videos tomorrow

 

OK, well, if you had not been spotted from before this does not seem - to me - to be "working as intended". I would expect a highly enhanced "stealth" mode to kick in under those conditions, I might not be expecting a Loki invisibility equivalent, but I would expect that if someone was directly looking at me and I was not moving, in darkness, they would have to be DAMN close to notice me, or me making a noise, etc etc.

 

We can already do rolls while crouched behind enemies and they can't hear us, and approach them, crouched, from some pretty shallow angles, and we don't get spotted normally in direct line of sight already at certain distances, and this ability should enhance that, at the very least.

 

A video of the issue would be helpful as it might highlight what you are describing.

Edited July 19, 2014 by DSpite

[Heraclius]

It makes you "harder to spot" in that the enemies have trouble aiming at you.  Their attacks will still happen, they just fall shy of where you are, because they can't spot exactly where you are.  OP is understanding the flavour text far too narrow-mindedly.  

[MonkJayn]

it doesn't even begin to sound like a stealth skill, and it does exactly what it says it does, in the light you do more damage, in the dark your harder to hit/ take less damage, no where does it even mention stealth or invisibility, sorry OP, your wrong.

 

on the plus side mirage is huge fun to play.

 

laters 

 

Monk

[SoulEchelon]

The description is...kind of correct?

 

It says Mirage is difficult to track and harder to hurt. Those mean the same thing. An enemy shooting at Mirage while she's in a dark area will do reduced damage...which means he's having a hard time actually tracking her to hurt her. Thus, translating that into how video games work, he does less damage because his bullets aren't hitting consistently.

 

It did not state anything about her not being trackable at all, or being practically invisible in the dark (However that could be an awesome ability for say, Ash perhaps).

 

This isn't advanced thought processes. The second I saw the description that was what I figured it'd be. But I guess we all just have different ways of viewing things.

Edited July 19, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[Heraclius]

OP basically misunderstood the mod text and instead of owning his/her own moment of stupidity is trying to frame it as a stupidity on DE's part.

[eltronix]

mirage is most definitely not a stealth frame 

[Noble_Cactus]

A lot of the ability and item/frame descriptions in this game read like working concepts that were never updated. So the darkness portion of Eclipse was probably something that was in development at one point, but was later scrapped.

 

No one is being an idiot here. The tooltip should be updated to reflect what the ability actually does.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[shut]

The description is...kind of correct?

 

It says Mirage is difficult to track and harder to hurt. Those mean the same thing.

 

Nope.

Being difficult to track, of course, makes you harder to hurt. But being harder to hurt (e.g. reduced damage) doesn't necessarily point out that it was because you were difficult to track.

 

I understand your "translating into how video games work" point, but this is a game where moderately advanced AI is fully possible. It's not a simplistic game like Maplestory, where things such as automatic damage reductions / nullifications have to be used to simulate dodging; the devs have shown that they are fully capable of implementing a primitive sight-based detection system for the AI.

Edited July 20, 2014 by SortaRandom

[SoulEchelon]

A lot of the ability and item/frame descriptions in this game read like working concepts that were never updated. So the darkness portion of Eclipse was probably something that was in development at one point, but was later scrapped.

 

No one is being an idiot here. The tooltip should be updated to reflect what the ability actually does.

 

But it does exactly what it states. If you're in the dark, you're harder to hit, which means you take less damage. When you're in the light, your damage increases. It's....extremely simple.

 

Edit: Wow okay, people are just being argumentative to be argumentative now. I saw the description and knew exactly what it meant immediately. I had no problem figuring it out, and it seems the vast majority agrees with this. But for those meager few who didn't understand, you should've watched the showcase vid they do on every single one of the warframes to this day before purchasing. That's all I gotta say on the matter. *poofs*

Edited July 20, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[Gaelan]

You guys may want to stop paraphrasing the ability description.

 

Eclipse does not say that it makes you "harder to spot".  It does not say that it "conceals you".

 

It says it makes you "difficult to track".

 

Tracking has two popular definitions in video games:  It can mean following the trail left behind by a target (used more often in hunting games), or it can mean aiming and lining up a shot against a target (used more often in FPS/flight sims).

 

Because we as players do not leave behind a trail when we run, and because enemies in Warframe do not actively hunt us down, it is illogical to think that Eclipse is using the first definition of "track".  However, if we assume that Eclipse is referring to the second definition of "track" then we would expect the ability to provide some form of damage avoidance/mitigation, and guess what?  That's exactly what it does!

 

Is the wording on the ability a little bit vague?  Maybe.  Does using common sense and a basic understanding of the English language allow us to understand the correct functionality?  Absolutely.

 

TL;DR

Eclipse is working as intended, and is working as described both by it's ability text and by the advertised Warframe Spotlight video.

 

Stop whining over your own misunderstanding.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Gaelan

[_Chaser]

harder to track implies it's harder to see

[Kratos]

harder to track implies it's harder to see

Can you elaborate, please, as to why you are frustrated? Long explanation would help me understand better...

[_Chaser]

Can you elaborate, please, as to why you are frustrated? Long explanation would help me understand better...

here

 

my primary interest in warframe is stealth. rest is mostly irrelevant for me.

[Kratos]

here

 

I am referring to at least a paragraph or two. 1-2 Sentence structure leaves details out.

[Gaelan]

harder to track implies it's harder to see

 

See this is why you're so frustrated; you have this idea in your head that being difficult to track is the same as being difficult to see.

 

This implication is quite simply incorrect.

 

Let me help you out here with the various definitions of the word "track" (note I only include the verb uses as the noun uses of "track" are irrelevant to this discussion):

 

---------

 

verb (used with object)

21.

to follow or pursue the track, traces, or footprints of.

22.

to follow (a track, course, etc.).

23.

to make one's way through; traverse.

24.

to leave footprints on (often followed by up or on ): to track the floor with muddy shoes.

25.

to make a trail of footprints with (dirt, snow, or the like): The dog tracked mud all over the living room rug.

 

verb (used without object)

30.

to follow or pursue a track or trail.

31.

to run in the same track, as the wheels of a vehicle.

32.

to be in alignment, as one gearwheel with another.

33.

to have a specified span between wheels or runners: The car's wheels track about five feet.

 

—vb

22.   to follow the trail of (a person, animal, etc)

23.   to follow the flight path of (a satellite, spacecraft, etc) by picking up radio or radar signals transmitted or reflected by it

24.   (US) railways   a.  to provide with a track   b.  to run on a track of (a certain width)

25.   (of a camera or camera operator) to follow (a moving object) in any direction while operating

26.   to move (a camera) towards the scene (track in) or away from the scene (track out)

27.   to follow a track through (a place): to track the jungles

28.   (intr) (of the pick-up, stylus, etc, of a record player) to follow the groove of a record: the pick-up tracks badly

 

----------

 

As you can very clearly see, not one of these definitions refers to being able to "see" something.  Many of the definitions refer to following a target via the trail they leave behind, but that is not at all the same as being able to physically see the target.

 

If you actually think about it for a moment you will realize that tracking a target would be completely irrelevant if you could already see the target.  If you can already see the target then there is no reason to track the target.  Therefore when you say that being "harder to track implies it's harder to see" you are in fact making no sense at all.

 

The two definitions I bolded and underlined are the definitions of track relevant to this ability.  In fact, these two definitions directly support my earlier statements that tracking is used commonly in FPS and flight sims to refer to aiming at or lining up a shot with a target.  And as I said before, if you make it more difficult to aim at a target then you make it less likely to hit that target, and so that target will be hit less often, and so that target will take less damage.

 

All of your illogical assumptions come from you not knowing the correct definition and meaning of the word "track".  This is your problem, not DE's problem.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Gaelan

[Sebastianx]

That's not what it's meant to do lol...by "harder to track" it means enemies will not always shoot directly AT YOU and will have reduced accuracy and will just fire in your direction but not necessarily at you.

[DSpite]

It makes you "harder to spot" in that the enemies have trouble aiming at you.  Their attacks will still happen, they just fall shy of where you are, because they can't spot exactly where you are.  OP is understanding the flavour text far too narrow-mindedly.  

 

Ah ok, well in that case it's a unique ability in it's own way. so "tracking" would be in the sense of "weapon tracking" like in EVE Online where guns cant track you because you either move too fast, or you are disrupting their onboard systems. In this case it would mean some sort of damage mitigation.

[Pizzarugi]

Harder to 'track', not harder to 'spot'. There's a difference, a big difference.

 

Making you harder to track means enemies most likely cannot perfectly aim at you, forcing a delay to lock on you whenever you move out of their sights.

[Uzpian]

I see OP's point though :/

 

If I haven't watched the introductory video about Mirage first, I might not also be able to understand the ability's description 100%. 

 

Give him a break...

[Beas7ie]

How does one "RECIECE" an award?

Edited July 20, 2014 by Beas7ie

[Vlare]

Please. Dude. Just submit a ticket, explain that you misunderstood the nature of the new frame and want to get a refund if possible, and be done with it.

 

You simply misunderstood the frame's abilities, should've checked the profile vid or done some more research, because - as Gaelan very extensively explained to you - this is clearly not DE's fault.

Instead of being preposterously angry about it, if you want any form of refund you should go and beg for it, because DE does not HAVE to do anything for you - any refund you're getting is generosity.

 

And just to get this clear, how does it make sense to you that this frame revolves around stealth if it already owns two all-out AI manipulation abilities and a radial blind? Why would a frame get the ability to distract, to draw fire to something not the frame itself, and to prevent fire, only to not even be in danger altogether? That's like giving Nyx or Excalibur a stealth ability, it makes no sense at all.

[Crewell]

I like the way Eclipse works. In fhe light it's a big damage boost (which once Hall of Mirrors is fixed will be better). In the dark it is similar to Zephyr's 3rd power. My only complaint is I wish it had a better visual indicator of which state you are in cor those times you are on the edges of light and dark areas.

[hukurokuju5]

power strength. you're welcome

[AoifeAoife]

but eclipse DOES work great, it says harder to TRACK, not spot. When they start shooting, about 50% of their bullets miss, unless theyre point blank, and the damage is about 75% or more damage reduction. In a Void T1 survival I was fighting lvl 20-22s, and the grineer and corpus corrupted were doing 1 damage per shot. That's right ONE. It works perfectly, in my opinion. Also, when I fought lephantis, on the 2nd stage of him, it was so dark, that I literally couldn't die <3