Stop Giving Players More Of What They Want Less Of.

[SableSonata]

Players: We really hate direct-to-health damage. It's unfair and it isn't fun.

DE: Now every infested can have damage that bypasses shields!

 

Players: We really hate enemies that can drain our energy without reasonable warning. It is not fun either.

DE: Now even being near infested can drain your energy!

 

Players: The knockdown mechanics are bad, and it's not fun.

DE: Now half of the infested enemies can knock you down and/or drag you! Most of them at a fairly long range!

 

 

 

We don't want shield-bypassing attacks. Especially not when they have huge AoE, instant cast, and come from tiny, nimble targets, or come from player-seeking attacks off-screen. 

We don't want enemies that can instantly drain our energy from long ranges, and we don't want enemies that drain energy by proximity. It just doesn't work with Warframe's pace and cluttered visuals; identifying targets is not easy much of the time because of how cramped or crowded things regularly get, especially with the noise from abilities and weapons.

We don't want more enemies that can take away player agency unless we equip an otherwise worthless mod. We can block the knockdowns? Well that's nice except where you took blocking away from players unless they equip a melee weapon. 

 

Sometimes it seems like DE just doesn't care about their players. And then there are things like this that make it seem like DE hates their players. Give them bad systems and when they point out that it's not actually challenging or fun, give them more of the same. These aren't difficult. They aren't fun. They aren't a challenge. They're annoying. Either make the systems fit the pace of the game, or adjust the pace of the game to fit the systems. Pick one, because the dichotomy between systems and pace is killing the fun.

[KaptainK3nny]

That makes the game fun this game is already easy as it is but with these fun things it makes it more challenging

[(PSN)MoriartyHaaaiii]

That makes the game fun this game is already easy as it is but with these fun things it makes it more challenging

 

Only problem is RNG hasn't lightened up at all. DE needs to find the balance.

Challenging game? Great, better not have much (if any) RNG.

 

Easy game? Be lazy and use RNG to make people replay it... Yea that's the foundation of warframe...

 

 

They're getting there though.

[Tr1ples1xer]

I agree with OP, challenge does not make it fun it makes it frustrating even if I don't really die.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

That makes the game fun this game is already easy as it is but with these fun things it makes it more challenging

There's a huge difference between punishing (a la "I wanna be the guy" series) and challenging (Dark Souls series)

[unmog]

+1 :)

 

We can block the knockdowns? Well that's nice except where you took blocking away from players unless they equip a melee weapon. 

 

I wanted to reply to this part though. I noticed myself blocking more stuff on accident, without having my melee equipped. For instance a fire leader did his fire blast that hits everything around him, and I was killing things. I ended up right clicking to ADS to shoot something the same moment that I got hit with it and I suddenly pulled out my weapon to block instead. Sure I was pushed back quite a ways but I wasnt knocked down, and I did negate a good bit of the damage to my shields. Other times when Im melee spamming my quick attack I notice if I attack someone at the same time they attack me I tend to block now as well...

 

I havent quite gotten it down to a science, but like I said, figured Id share some of my new experiences with U14. Maybe others have noticed this.

[Acos]

It's more like they add a thing, and then a couple dozen people jump up to complain about the thing and it's a "big deal" for a few days. I could counter every single one of those things you just pointed out as things the "players" don't want as something I did. Energy drain means you need to change up your tactics. Direct Health Damage means you need to pack recovery items. Knockdown means you need to watch your butt. 

Enemies should not paper bags armed with BB guns, and as much as *you* don't like it, every single one of those revisions was, at one time, a topic about enemies being too weak and things that could be done to buff them up. 

Edited July 20, 2014 by Acos

[--FHDL--Bael]

uhh bro , thats reflex guard

[unmog]

uhh bro , thats reflex guard

However I dont have reflex guard equipped? *plays twilight zone music*

 

Edited July 20, 2014 by unmog

[Xarteros]

I wouldn't mind knockdowns if every warframe had a 5% chance or something to resist by default, just so there's that element of chance to pull you through a tough situation. The one thing i can't STAND about knockdowns is when they're stacked one after another, so you never get a chance to fight. Happens a lot in huge infested crowds, and you end up with no energy, no shields and you just get shredded.

[ValhaHazred]

1: I have no issue with direct to health damage, Mutualist Osprey and Toxics are just priority targets.

 

2: No it's not fun. It is also not a big problem. I'd prefer they took portions of energy instead of all of it but meh.

 

3: The knockdown mechanic is bad, DE knows and said they where adding a timing based kick up ability. That will be enough for me.

[Viverim]

1: I have no issue with direct to health damage, Mutualist Osprey and Toxics are just priority targets.

 

2: No it's not fun. It is also not a big problem. I'd prefer they took portions of energy instead of all of it but meh.

 

3: The knockdown mechanic is bad, DE knows and said they where adding a timing based kick up ability. That will be enough for me.

1. Mutalist Opsrey, Toxics, All Grineer gunmen and All Corpus Crewmen.

 

2. What makes a warframe special and stand out from any other warframe?  It's powers.  But... lets take that away, on an incredibly frequent basis.  Yeah...

 

3. Having a kick up is nice... assuming you don't get chain stomped by everything around you while attempting to do it.  Or have to kick up every 5 seconds.  That's both tedious and annoying.

 

I enjoy the game.  i like much of what they design.  But there are many, many flaws, and I'm not going to ignore the flaws just because I like other parts of the game.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

We need status bars so that these effects don't activate until the bar is full.  I made a thread about it over here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/262318-slash-and-toxic-are-bad-mechanics/#entry3050422

 

Only have 52 up votes on the OP though.

[Acos]

1: I have no issue with direct to health damage, Mutualist Osprey and Toxics are just priority targets.

 

2: No it's not fun. It is also not a big problem. I'd prefer they took portions of energy instead of all of it but meh.

 

3: The knockdown mechanic is bad, DE knows and said they where adding a timing based kick up ability. That will be enough for me.

 

3: That's the first I've heard of that. Apparently I need to watch devstreams more regularly. It will make me a happy school girl indeed. 

[ValhaHazred]

1. Mutalist Opsrey, Toxics, All Grineer gunmen and All Corpus Crewmen.

 

2. What makes a warframe special and stand out from any other warframe?  It's powers.  But... lets take that away, on an incredibly frequent basis.  Yeah...

 

3. Having a kick up is nice... assuming you don't get chain stomped by everything around you while attempting to do it.  Or have to kick up every 5 seconds.  That's both tedious and annoying.

 

I enjoy the game.  i like much of what they design.  But there are many, many flaws, and I'm not going to ignore the flaws just because I like other parts of the game.

 

1. I forgot about slash procs, because I have never been killed by one.

 

2. It's not like you're using these powers absolutely non-stop. If you are, you should already have restores and a drain isn't a big deal. If you absolutely must use a power on a group that disrupted you, retreat. There's no shame in a tactical withdraw.

 

3. You're really over exaggerating how often knockdown happens. 

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

I wouldn't mind knockdowns if every warframe had a 5% chance or something to resist by default, just so there's that element of chance to pull you through a tough situation. The one thing i can't STAND about knockdowns is when they're stacked one after another, so you never get a chance to fight. Happens a lot in huge infested crowds, and you end up with no energy, no shields and you just get shredded.

Can't stand it either, that's why I do not go without handspring on my frames for the most part.

Edited July 23, 2014 by -SLX-J3tAc3

[Zeitzbach]

Players: We really hate direct-to-health damage. It's unfair and it isn't fun.

DE: Now every infested can have damage that bypasses shields!

 

How to die then? Infested can barely graze your shield unless you mess up and get knocked down. If they mauled you down even a little, your sentinel will regen your shield back to full in an instant and you just have to run and gun for 30 more seconds for your second chance. This makes healer a bit more important but still isn't mandatory if you're just there to farm, clear and go.

 

Players: We really hate enemies that can drain our energy without reasonable warning. It is not fun either.

DE: Now even being near infested can drain your energy!

 

We still have near infinite energy to use anyway with Fleeting and Streamline. That and Eximus spawn rate dropped so we have less energy draining stuffs around actually. Those ancient just make it so that your power damage lower and because that causes the Eximus to die slower, it makes you lose more energy.

 

Players: The knockdown mechanics are bad, and it's not fun.

DE: Now half of the infested enemies can knock you down and/or drag you! Most of them at a fairly long range!

 

And also easily blocked by using a copter to prevent CC. That and they can also be dodged.

 

 

 

--

 

Can't stand it either, that's why I do not go without handspring on my frames for the most part.

 

Handspring hurts you more than it helps. Handspring removes that 0.5 second getting up animation that comes with CC immunity time. You can also shoot while getting up allowing you to kill that CC unit and copter away before they can knock you down agian. Any "Get up faster" is actually hurting you in the long run.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Zeitzbach

[cypherhalo]

Have to agree with OP.  Making the game challenging is fun but there has to be ways to do it that aren't so annoying.  Especially draining energy and knockdowns.  Using powers it half the fun of Warframe and the biggest thing that distinguishes one frame from the other, draining your energy is just pointless.  Unless they're going to change up energy so that it is automatically regenerated rather then reliant on drops, they can't be constantly draining your energy.  

 

Knockdowns would be ok once in a while but when you're constantly getting repeatedly knocked down it's just frustrating.  At the very least, could we knockdown immunity for 5-10 seconds after being knocked down.  If that is too much how about immunity after being knocked 2-3 times?  

[vaugahn]

So is this thread about DE not listening to players or the infested being too challenging? Because people were asking for infested to be more challenging so it seems like they are listening to us 

[SableSonata]

So is this thread about DE not listening to players or the infested being too challenging? Because people were asking for infested to be more challenging so it seems like they are listening to us 

It's about DE not listening to players. Infested aren't 'too' challenging; they're just unfair and it makes them a pain to fight. The only challenge involved in the new infested is how high you can raise your DPS, because the only way to avoid their BS effects is to kill them faster.