Event Weapons Punish New Players

[Grilleds]

Since people aren't being punished so long as the best in every category is available. I say we make every weapon between the best and the worst of every category into exclusives. Obviously this means absolutely nobody would be punished according to the community's logic, since people can still farm for the absolute best weapons.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Grilleds

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Well, OP is totally right. It's not just event weapons, there's a whole bunch of stuff. Game is slowly accumulating a critical mass of removed exclusives most of which are not cosmetic. Gorgon Wraith is a thing that can substitute for Boltor Prime, normal Gorgon is just bad. Loki with Arcane Essence helmet, Rhino with Vanguard... They may need a massive overhaul, but hey, Shocking Touch is still 60%. Slow developer is slow.

[Kestral9999]

Well, OP is totally right. It's not just event weapons, there's a whole bunch of stuff. Game is slowly accumulating a critical mass of removed exclusives most of which are not cosmetic. Gorgon Wraith is a thing that can substitute for Boltor Prime, normal Gorgon is just bad. Loki with Arcane Essence helmet, Rhino with Vanguard... They may need a massive overhaul, but hey, Shocking Touch is still 60%. Slow developer is slow.

With as much as they've given themselves to work on, it can't be too surprising.

[jawnt]

Since people aren't being punished so long as the best in every category is available. I say we make every weapon between the best and the worst of every category into exclusives. Obviously this means absolutely nobody would be punished according to the community's logic, since people can still farm for the absolute best weapons.

 

Yeah! Wait, no, your logic is awful.

 

I've missed some event rewards and I have yet to shed one tear. I like games that put unique or time limited items into the mix. Get some, miss some.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

I disagree entirely, including with the idea that not having an event weapon is somehow a punishment. It's a bonus for those that were playing at the time, but you are not actually deminished by not having them. You are not at a disadvantage.

[Grilleds]

Yeah! Wait, no, your logic is awful.

 

I've missed some event rewards and I have yet to shed one tear. I like games that put unique or time limited items into the mix. Get some, miss some.

You haven't shed a tear? Wow, my argument has been completely shattered. I mean obviously you speak for the entire silent majority, right? /sarc

 

Fact is, exclusives in video games are dumb idea to begin with. Seasonal or otherwise reoccurring exclusives make a bit more sense since people can still get them later if they miss them. However I'd personally prefer if nothing was exclusive, but since that ship is already sailed, I made a thread a while back proposing seasonal exclusives which was swamped by people accusing me of being mad about missing exclusives, even after I provided screenshots of my inventory proving I had them, which were then accused of being photoshopped. This community has a very unhealthy "I don't want other people to play with the same toys I have" attitude. 

[Edgedemon]

event weapons only?

 

look at of event mods!!!

 

but thankfuly for all of us the only "exclusive" items thus far are the founders pack, all the rest has been stated to be making a come back some day...

 

 the free machete gave me some hope, let's hope they keep the deal.

[TheWolfMo]

Well, OP is totally right. It's not just event weapons, there's a whole bunch of stuff. Game is slowly accumulating a critical mass of removed exclusives most of which are not cosmetic. Gorgon Wraith is a thing that can substitute for Boltor Prime, normal Gorgon is just bad. Loki with Arcane Essence helmet, Rhino with Vanguard... They may need a massive overhaul, but hey, Shocking Touch is still 60%. Slow developer is slow.

whats wrong with shocking touch being 60%? it used to be 30%^^ be happy its 60% they could lower it again...just like fury

[Zarlockk]

I cant think of any really good exclusive weapon... Gorgon Wraith,Machete Wraith, Twin Wraith Viper, Prova Vandal, Latron wraith and so on. They all are just tiny upgrades of originals. Only weapon which is "exclusive" is Snipertron and Snipertron Vandal yet as a rank 15 player who plays over a year i would say i dont care neither about Snipertron(Vandal) nor Prime chamber. I am totally fine without them. All this weapons are mainly for show off and make forgotten weapons more or less played for a bit.

[Warriorrogue]

The only event weapon I miss is the Sandal, and now the other snipers are better now, so that's not quite so sore anymore.

Previously, when it was either one shot in a clip for some damage, or 4 shots and stupid reload, or lanka, now too much choice.

[SlabBulkhead]

I joined after the Vandal weapons were released.  I'd like to have them, but it's no big deal to me.  They're just rewards for sticking around and eventually they come back.

[Davoodoo]

I havent seen anyone who got the point, its not about having event exclusives in game, its about these exclusives being outright better than non exclusive variants.

[DSpite]

It has deeply concerned me that the event weapons, which could only be acquired for a limited time at their respective events and cannot be traded, are statistically better than their non-event counterparts. This means that a new player who has joined the game after these events have ended will never be able to acquire these weapons, putting them at a permanent disadvantage compared to the older players who participated in these events. Imagine if CS:GO players could only get the AWP if they picked up the game on launch day. This is basically what is happening with event weapons. I'm fine with cosmetic exclusive items, it's nice to have a souvenir to prove you participated in an event, but when items that are only available for a limited time have an effect on gameplay, you have a problem. I don't think statistically superior event items should be removed from the game, however. Being allowed to trade event items would be nice, but I came up with a way to stop putting new players at a disadvantage, and still keep event items exclusive to events. If all the event weapons in the game were added to a drop pool, and every time a new event happened, players could get a random event weapon from this drop pool, then new players would have a chance to finally level the playing field, and event items would still be exclusive to events.

 

You're just mad you're missed out. Should I be mad I missed out on Excalibur Prime? Holiday palettes for 1 credit? Snipetron?

 

You are not "at a disadvantage" because those weapons are NOT being shot AT YOU, like every other game you mentioned.

 

Game working as intended. Move along. You are not a special, the game does not need to bend over to please you.

[DSpite]

I havent seen anyone who got the point, its not about having event exclusives in game, its about these exclusives being outright better than non exclusive variants.

 

What point? It's a game. Some one that has a Latron Wraith does not instantly wreck your game by having one in a mission. They are not shooting it at you, they are shooting it at mobs, and helping you finish the mission, which you yourself are doing, probably to get something more important that the event weapon, like for example a Latron Prime or a Boltor Prime, or Forma.

 

I have not seen anyone get the point yet that DE could give players stuff all day long and STILL people will find an angle to complain about it.

 

This complaints are not about the fact the items are "better" then something else, It's about missing out. If people were paying per month to play this game, this type of complaint might have merit, but they do not, and it does not.

[Davoodoo]

What point? It's a game. Some one that has a Latron Wraith does not instantly wreck your game by having one in a mission. They are not shooting it at you, they are shooting it at mobs, and helping you finish the mission, which you yourself are doing, probably to get something more important that the event weapon, like for example a Latron Prime or a Boltor Prime, or Forma.

 

I have not seen anyone get the point yet that DE could give players stuff all day long and STILL people will find an angle to complain about it.

 

This complaints are not about the fact the items are "better" then something else, It's about missing out. If people were paying per month to play this game, this type of complaint might have merit, but they do not, and it does not.

Thats what i meant by missing point, it doesnt matter if someone got it or not, but if someone got it early in game, skipped major part of progression by having way stronger weapon with barely any work.

[DSpite]

Thats what i meant by missing point, it doesnt matter if someone got it or not, but if someone got it early in game, skipped major part of progression by having way stronger weapon with barely any work.

 

The weapons are not "stronger". By this standard, a Glaive is a virtual mass murder weapon and is given as a Login reward. With no other mods apart from 2 elements on 4/5 (I tested it for someone once), it one-shots the mobs in the highest Solar mission when it explodes, and takes everything out in a large radius, it's a mini Penta with no ammo needs. A player could also accidentally get a Dread simply for being in the "wrong" place on his first day in the game, and in maybe 24 hours of farming mats, have one of the meanest weapons in the game. Should we take those out?

 

I just asked in USA chat, and I was told a full Latron Prime in parts could be mine for a low 20 Plat, which equates to $1 in real money, hell, lets pretend we are being ripped off at 40 Plat and make it $2 in real money, and you would still have a gun to last you the entire game.

 

If people want to skip things, not our call to stop them. I gave away a full Latron P set and a partial Boltor P set to new players, because I had spares, and I don't look at it as destroying their Warframe experience.

 

It's a coop game, other people can't really ruin you fun other then maybe a few minutes every 20 missions or so. I'm looking at you Mirage, and your annoying Prism. It's like being ocularly molested by a rainbow. I feel dirty afterwards and I avoid M&M's and Skittles for weeks.

Edited September 2, 2014 by DSpite

[SolarDwagon]

Because folks are totally running SnipeVandals, Wraith Gorgon/Strun/Vipers instead of Boltor Primes.

This really sums up the argument well.

 

But gimmeh mah Snipetrons! D:

 

Also relevant to above post, I think I managed to bring Stalker down upon a player's mission on his very first starmap mission under the old system (pre 14), killed said Stalker, and newbie had a Dread BP literally from the start of the game. I've known people with double-figure mastery ranks who don't have Dread.

Edited September 2, 2014 by SolarDwagon

[Eric1738]

most event weapons are mediocre and warframe has a very large pool of weapon choices, so u can easily find similar stuffs. 

event mods, on the other hand, hurt new players more, but the good thing is DE releases event mods much faster. it wont surprise me if we could farm electric+status mods in U15

[Kestral9999]

I don't have a single legitimately exclusive weapon besides Dex Furis (which is meh) and I absolutely do not care. None of the exclusives are the best of the best. I'm not missing out on anything. Other players need to realize this as well. Exclusive weapons and event weapons are meant to reward the players who earned them, not to punish those who didn't. You're misconstruing the intent of their purpose, and to what end?

 

Strun is stronger than Strun Wraith anyway.

 

/thread

Edited September 2, 2014 by Kestral9999

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I have seen two categories that most of the halfway decent arguments against my point fall into. I am here to address these two categories, and why their arguments are fundamentally flawed.

 

#1: The exclusive weapons aren't that good.

Since people aren't being punished so long as the best in every category is available. I say we make every weapon between the best and the worst of every category into exclusives. Obviously this means absolutely nobody would be punished according to the community's logic, since people can still farm for the absolute best weapons.

The majority of the exclusive weapons are mid to high tier. The Latron Wraith is the second highest DPS rifle in the game, surpassing the Soma, Synapse, and Latron Prime. The Twin Viper Wraiths are the 4th highest DPS secondaries in the game. The Strun Wraith is the 3rd highest DPS shotgun in the game. The Snipetron Vandal is the highest DPS sniper rifle in the game. Many of the event weapons are F***ing awesome, and the ones that aren't are still pretty good.

 

#2: You're not at a disadvantage because this isn't a PVP game.

This argument is flawed for two reasons. It doesn't change the fact that another player has a better weapon than I do, and therefore an advantage, simply because they were lucky enough to have been playing the game before me. It may not be an advantage at the direct detriment of other players, but it's still an advantage. Also, by your logic, why would you care if event weapons were made available to everyone? You have the badges to prove you participated in the events. If there was never any disadvantage, then why do you care who has the exclusives? And another thing, don't conclave and dark sector conflicts exist?

 

I love Warframe, and I honestly want to make it a better game. I'm not just mad that I don't own the majority of the event weapons. I am mad, but that was not my motivation for creating this topic. I saw a game feature that was giving older players an advantage that newer players could never have as well as dividing the community between those who have the majority of the event weapons and those who don't, and I wanted to change that to make Warframe a better, more fair game. The founder system divided the community into castes enough already. I thank the community for notifying me that it has been stated that event weapons will be making a comeback in the future, but I'm not exactly sure when "in the future" is.

 

One thing is still bothering me, though. Why would the developers create the event system? Events aren't monetized. The developers don't benefit from the events, and the community certainly doesn't. I have no clue why the developers would willingly divide their community like this at no benefit to themselves. From a developer's standpoint, it seems to make no sense. If anyone could provide a possible reason without any hateful spewings, please inform me.

[vaugahn]

One thing is still bothering me, though. Why would the developers create the event system? Events aren't monetized. The developers don't benefit from the events, and the community certainly doesn't. I have no clue why the developers would willingly divide their community like this at no benefit to themselves. From a developer's standpoint, it seems to make no sense. If anyone could provide a possible reason without any hateful spewings, please inform me.

 

It gives them a heavily-played platform to test new content. Who would ever avoid playing an event while it's up? They always include a new mode or some new mechanic in the event, and use it as a test ground for future integration. The rewards are just icing on the cake and a little extra incentive for players.

 

Event weapons do not put new players at any meaningful disadvantage, save the one in their mind. People have a problem with them for the same reason people have a problem with Excal Prime; it's a cool thing they don't have. Event weapons come back anyways, there's that to consider.

 

Also, necroing threads is generally considered bad etiquette. 

[-SW-MOXxx.]

I love the idea that you could make those weapons on your own with some rare parts etc because ok it's rewarding for "old players" but I am old player and i don't have twin vipers wraith and boar wraith... Why? Because when event started i had my falimy event due to new member of our family and i didn't even know that there was an event. I'd like to have chance to get those weapons even for platinum. It's just some weapons good or bad but gives mastery rank XP and fullfills my goal to get all dual wielded weapons, they should do with them as they did with brakk for egzample when it was only for achiveing some score with granieer and no more later but now you can get it by killing grustrag three. I'd like it to be albe to get those weapons somehow. Sorry for my english ;)

[Proxy_201]

you guys serious...

I can only agree with Warframe giving better weapons or mods in event's, that you wouldn't get anywhere, otherwise would there be any meaning in participating in a boring event (not saying all event's are boring).

I'ts like telling someone to work if they want to get money in return, but not worry because they'll get the money either way...

[Vanadium]

I think this has already been addressed with Events weapons being only appreciably better than their vanillas. Especially with how easy it is for new players to acquire prime weapons via trade, I don't think new players are really missing out on anything. Some of these weapons are, after all, improvements of bad weapons, which only makes them slightly less bad (Gorgon Wraith, Wipers, Machete Wraith, etc.).

 

I think DE learned their lesson with the Straith (which I think was nerfed three times) that offering up such immensely powerful weapons for events puts too much power in the hands of players who were lucky enough to have free time for the event (though getting the Straith was really easy).

 

Also, they said these guns will come back, and new ones come around too. I think the Latron Wraith is probably the best Wraith weapon so far (in terms of usefulness to newer players), so I think DE's getting better at figuring out what the strengths for these weapons should be.

[Tsukinoki]

One thing is still bothering me, though. Why would the developers create the event system? Events aren't monetized. The developers don't benefit from the events, and the community certainly doesn't. I have no clue why the developers would willingly divide their community like this at no benefit to themselves. From a developer's standpoint, it seems to make no sense. If anyone could provide a possible reason without any hateful spewings, please inform me.

Tell me:

What would be the benefit or reason for doing an event if you could just immediately get the weapon after it was finished regardless of whether you took part in the event or not?

DE does the events the way they do, with the shiny mod and weapon rewards, because it gets people to play.

The events are:

A) A way to get a lot of people playing the game at once

B) A way to test a new game-mode, feature, tile-set, etc, on a very large audience and get large amounts of feedback on it quickly

If they didn't have some form of semi-exclusive (I only put the semi part there because DE has said that event weapons could come back as rewards for a future event, but dont hold your breath for that) reward, what would be the point of taking part?

Why go through dozens of the same mission in a very limited time-span if you aren't going to get something worth-while?

Take the "Operation: Cryotic Front" event.

How many people would have played it as extensively as they did for the event time if there wasn't a Latron Wraith and mod pack for the higher rewards?

Answer: not nearly as many.

From a feed-back perspective on the new mission type and tile-set, DE got a very large amount of feedback in a relatively short amount of time.

Which is great for them.

And which is exactly why they offered those types of rewards: so that people play those new missions a *lot* more often than they would have otherwise and therefore found more bugs/issues/balance problems/what-have-you.

Also, in the end, it doesn't affect you in any possible way if people have a shinier or stronger gun than you.

In most cases people dont even notice what gun someone useless unless its a launcher of some sort.

And if you want a shiny gun, wait till the next event and take part in it.