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Dark Sector & Warframe Both Have A 66 Meta-Critic Score.


Mkilbride
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my question is why are they reviewing a game in beta? the reviews will be ofcontent that likely won't even be in the game by release, and systems will have been radically changed.

would you judge warframe 14 on a review from warframe 7 or 8?

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my question is why are they reviewing a game in beta? the reviews will be ofcontent that likely won't even be in the game by release, and systems will have been radically changed.

would you judge warframe 14 on a review from warframe 7 or 8?

 

Probably we're the only people in the World who still consider Warframe a beta lol.

 

However, it's a F2P. And F2P generally have a lot of updates. So I'm not interested in what other people say. If I like a game I play it. Full stop.

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Probably we're the only people in the World who still consider Warframe a beta lol.

However, it's a F2P. And F2P generally have a lot of updates. So I'm not interested in what other people say. If I like a game I play it. Full stop.

well it kinda is. if you look at how often entire systems get changed and how many planets lack unique tile sets, not to mention the recent focus on meaningful pvp that is being changed each hotfix, the game does truly look like a beta still.

you have to remember we as players got dropped into the game fairly early in the development period needed for most games that aim high and aren't meant to be pumped out yearly by Christmas. :)

Edited by TheCometCE
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Cannot you realize that there really is not a set definition of what pay2win is?

The most commonly agreed definition for P2W is that you pay real money for an advantage that is impossible to get by just investing time into the game.

All the things in the game you can get just by putting time into the game. You can get Forma from Void missions, Orokin Reactors sometimes show up in Invasion rewards, and Orokin Catalysts are give out monthly in Alerts. You can also get the plat for slots simply by trading, of course you have to be Mastery 2, but by then you usually have a few good things to sell.

There is nothing in the game you can't get just by putting time into the game, but you can pay for being able to get it sooner than other people, but I think the real fun in Warframe is working towards the stuff instead of just outright getting it.

Edited by Nethaufer
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But currently the ugliest piece of sh*t they released are the Kubrows anyways... Especially the Breeding is a friggin nightmare and is designed to be the greatest Platinum sink to date if you don't want the ugliest Bastard Mongrel possible you'll store in the fridge forever. I'm pretty disgusted about how that turned out.

This is so true... I like the idea of kubrows, but the way it was delivered was so unprofessional!! =(

 

I had a kubrow i loved and they changed it on me, not only that but the breeding IS terrible.

 

I spent 90p because i couldn't trade for a blue lotus mark to mix with my black kubrow and guess what I get? BLUE SOCKS!!! LOL how does that even make sense?

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I have to agree that this game is pay2win though. Revives, boosters, rushing, thats all paying for convenience. However buying resources, mod packs, mods directly from players, fusion cores, potatoes, and now whatever this Kubrow crap is all about...  that I consider to go way past convenience. Some of these things will take you potentially forever to achieve if you are unlucky. That would have to be my one issue with this game. True you CAN get mostly everything without paying for it, but they make damn sure you will spend FOREVER doing it. In a PvE focused game I consider having fun to be winning, and DE seems to go to great lengths to make sure you're gonna have to buy plat to do it. If this game wants to lose its pay2win they need to do something about the grindwall, because its the most massive I've seen in a game honestly and makes this look like a lottery simulator at times. 

 

 

TL;DR Look below this guy is way more concise lol 

Edited by FlyDungas
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The most commonly agreed definition for P2W is that you pay real money for an advantage that is impossible to get by just investing time into the game.

All the things in the game you can get just by putting time into the game. You can get Forma from Void missions, Orokin Reactors sometimes show up in Invasion rewards, and Orokin Catalysts are give out monthly in Alerts. You can also get the plat for slots simply by trading, of course you have to be Mastery 2, but by then you usually have a few good things to sell.

There is nothing in the game you can't get just by putting time into the game, but you can pay for being able to get it sooner than other people, but I think the real fun in Warframe is working towards the stuff instead of just outright getting it.

So it's not pay2win if one could bypass 500 hours of grind in 1 hour? Where exactly do people draw the line?

Edited by PeripheralVisionary
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So it's not pay2win if one could bypass 500 hours of grind in 1 hour? Where exactly do people draw the line?

Because you're not actually winning. As someone else said, it's more like pay for convenience. As no one is getting an unfair advantage over somone else, and the fact that there really isn't a way to 'win' in Warframe, it's simply not pay to win.

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Because you're not actually winning. As someone else said, it's more like pay for convenience. As no one is getting an unfair advantage over somone else, and the fact that there really isn't a way to 'win' in Warframe, it's simply not pay to win.

It is an unfair advantage, because they're asking me to compare with a person, which is an unreasonable request if it is too much. Definitions differ from person to person.

 

 

An example would be DE making credit boosters 10x more effective than they are while simultaneously raising credit costs 10x. It's not only convenient, but it creates a considerable gap betweeen the buyer and the non buyer. This is especially apparent in PVP games.

Edited by PeripheralVisionary
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It is an unfair advantage, because they're asking me to compare with a person, which is an unreasonable request if it is too much. Definitions differ from person to person.

Okay, tell you what, you take a survey and ask people what they think about the fact that someone can outright buy stuff that they (as in the person you're asking) would have to work hours for to get. Once you do that, bring me the data and then we'll argue about it. Also, do keep in mind that there are quite a few weapons hidden behind Mastery rank which you can't circumvent buy using real world money.

 

Also, as I said before, I gave the most common definition of Pay 2 Win that I have come across, which is being able to purchase things that a normal player who doesn't use the real money currency won't be able to ever get. By that definition, this game is not pay to win because you are able to get everything (barring exclusives) just by putting time into the game. If you want to say that being able to circumvent 500 hours of gameplay is pay 2 win, then go ahead. I just call that missing out on 500 hours of fun experiences and buying your way to an empty 'victory'.

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Okay, tell you what, you take a survey and ask people what they think about the fact that someone can outright buy stuff that they (as in the person you're asking) would have to work hours for to get. Once you do that, bring me the data and then we'll argue about it. Also, do keep in mind that there are quite a few weapons hidden behind Mastery rank which you can't circumvent buy using real world money.

 

Also, as I said before, I gave the most common definition of Pay 2 Win that I have come across, which is being able to purchase things that a normal player who doesn't use the real money currency won't be able to ever get. By that definition, this game is not pay to win because you are able to get everything (barring exclusives) just by putting time into the game. If you want to say that being able to circumvent 500 hours of gameplay is pay 2 win, then go ahead. I just call that missing out on 500 hours of fun experiences and buying your way to an empty 'victory'.

And I'm giving you mine based on my own experiences, which is that there's too many standards and too many definitions to settle on just one.  Besides, 500 hours of grind. Grind is rarely fun.

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And I'm giving you mine based on my own experiences, which is that there's too many standards and too many definitions to settle on just one.  Besides, 500 hours of grind. Grind is rarely fun.

It is if you have some friends to do it with.

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Pay to win: you pay money and you win

Pay for convenience: you pay money and things take less time

If I pay money to win, than that doubles as convenience too in some cases. Some people literally took apart the term word by word and stated that any advantages gained from spending money is technically pay2win, similar to how all animations are cartoons in the inclusion aspect.

Edited by PeripheralVisionary
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You can't seem to realize what the term "Pay to win" means, do you?

 

In P2W games you gain unfair advantage in terms of power compared to people who don't pay anything. Please, do tell me what kind of power do paying users get in Warframe?

 

They can have more Warframes to choose from, more weapons to choose from? A free player can just pick the best weapons and stick with those.

 

You can pay to skip content, yes, you skip actually playing the game. Free players get mods etc while doing your "massive grindwall", whereas a paying player might pay platinum to get these mods from said free players.

 

And voila, free players can buy your P2W inventory slots.

 

Warframe is far from P2W, it's pay for convenience and flashy customization.

Skipping the grind, getting faster mastery rank, having more Warframe slots available so that the plat player can be better equipped to deal with challenges due to specialization. 

 

Someone payed for that plat.

 

Pay for "conv", as you put it, is pay to win.  Paying for flashy customization isn't though.

 

If they really want to kill two birds with one stone, they should let players unlock warframe slots in game at a rate of one Warframe slot per every 5 Mastery Rank levels, while allowing people to buy extra slots beyond that, if they would like. It lets non-plat players earn slots (at MR15 that is only 3 extra frame slots).  It also gives people a reason to level their MR past 8 and retains players for longer.  It would eliminate one of the most p2w aspects in the game, and it would not make slots something that players would never buy. 

 

Additionally, it would probably promote even more plat sales from the people that would rather trade for obscure weapons than farm them themselves. It would also make the unloved and unused weapon more popular and used. Since loot hunting is the main draw of the game, in its current state, it would also GREATLY extent the life of the game because EVERY weapon would become a desirable treasure.

Edited by (PS4)DesecratedFlame
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Skipping the grind, getting faster mastery rank, having more Warframe slots available so that the plat player can be better equipped to deal with challenges due to specialization. 

 

Someone payed for that plat.

 

Pay for "conv", as you put it, is pay to win.  Paying for flashy customization isn't though.

 

If they really want to kill two birds with one stone, they should let players unlock warframe slots in game at a rate of one Warframe slot per every 5 Mastery Rank levels, while allowing people to buy extra slots beyond that, if they would like. It lets non-plat players earn slots (at MR15 that is only 3 extra frame slots).  It also gives people a reason to level their MR past 8 and retains players for longer.  It would eliminate one of the most p2w aspects in the game, and it would not make slots something that players would never buy. 

 

Additionally, it would probably promote even more plat sales from the people that would rather trade for obscure weapons than farm them themselves. It would also make the unloved and unused weapon more popular and used. Since loot hunting is the main draw of the game, in its current state, it would also GREATLY extent the life of the game because EVERY weapon would become a desirable treasure.

I still disagree on the exact specifics between what is and isn't a pay to win game, but your ideas are really sound. However, there is one issue, and that is you need a LOT of weapons to get anywhere after MR 8.

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You have to tell us how this game is P2W then. I'm not challenging you, and I recognise the grind is real in this game and there are many flaws.

 

But how are they related to spending money? Even if you think an X weapon or frame are the strongest thing around, you can still achieve them for free, investing enought time ofc.

Depends if you believe it to mean, "You can just shortcut (almost) everything with cash" or "This game is not feasible without cash at all". There seems to be two camps on the matter. I would definitely disagree with the latter, though the start sure is slow (Pre-14, dunno about now with the tutorial giving mods). But the former is most certainly true, so I guess it depends on which camp you fall in on the definition is PTW. 

I think Warframe is one of two free games that does it relatively right, though.

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I still disagree on the exact specifics between what is and isn't a pay to win game, but your ideas are really sound. However, there is one issue, and that is you need a LOT of weapons to get anywhere after MR 8.

Well, I appreciate your reasonable and non-kneejerk response despite disagreeing with me.

 

I know that you need a lot to get past MR8, but that is a good thing.  It gives people something to shoot for.  Currently, once you hit MR8 and get end game gear, there isn't  a lot to so, or much reason to use new gear.  My suggestion gives people a reason to want to try out every piece of gear in the game, especially new gear that they might otherwise just ignore.  Plus, it gives players without plat a way to get more than just two warframe slots. Getting to MR 10 would be a lot of work but for an additional 2 frame slots, it would be completely worth it.

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