Solo Play And Mob Count

[Babellon]

This was me doing Sabotage on Uranus, Setebos 18-19. Rhino Prime, using only a Glaive, un-potatoed, with 3 mods on it.

 

http://i.imgur.com/zE6D1OO.jpg

 

80 Enemies, map included, just running to objective. Not a big map. Fits 80 enemies perfectly. 5 main tiles, 3 connector corridors, that an average of 16 enemies per large room.

 

Absolute slaughter with a thrown weapon. I can only guess what I would do with an assault rifle that's not flying through the air most of the time.

 

Please explain what kind of challenge you even expect on such a map with YOUR setup.

you are very succinctly demonstrating my point. There is no challenge to 80 mobs on a map. that is why we need more mobs on the map, more spawns, An adequate resistance. I also bet that map took you about 5 minutes. Which is my point, 5 minute speed runs, barely any resistance at all on maps, while great for those who cannot withstand having to concentrate on one thing for more than 5 minutes, is trivial. Do we really want trivial maps? do we really want minimum resistance? I've  seen numerous posts about challenge and difficulty, but when someone brings up a component that would actually lend to those very things, people act like you've taken  away their teddy bear. 

that same map, you say fits 80 mobs perfectly, I say would of been more exciting and  interesting with 160 mobs on it. from one end to the other. When lotus goes " theres a large security force headed your way", 5 mobs  appear, and I have to wonder where the "large security force" is exactly.

 

to answer  your question, I expect no challenge from  80 mobs on a map, I expect no challenge at all when I have to walk an objective and to extraction with barely any resistance  at all. That is the point.

People want challenge, but no one wants to change the things that need to be there to give us challenge, People say the game is to easy, but no one wants to change the things that directly effect that. 80 mobs on the map is not enough. 

[DSpite]

And this is the same tired mentality of people who want to speed run maps with no resistance. the point of mobs is to offer resistance to completion of the objective. if all of the maps are empty, then theres nothing to do but click an  objective and leave, this is a shooter, if you aren't playing to shoot at enemies, why are you playing, I play to shoot enemies, that is why we farm the gear, that is why we go after the resources, that is why we build the weapons, that is why we level them up, it is why we have the powers on the warframes. No mobs means no point to being on the map in the first place. You shouldn't have empty maps. there should be resistance to you all the way through the map. whether i choose to stay on a map for 10 minutes, or 1 hour, there should be mobs on the map. Endless defense, survival and nighmare modes, aren't the only maps, and should not be the only maps were mobs spawn regularly. there is more to this game than just running to the objective uncontested and running to extraction to get some little reward. 

 

I want a game that is fun and engaging, no matter what mission I run, or how long I spend on any given map. this isn't some Iphone app game, or runescape, or facebook party games. This is Warframe. you make  a broad and bored assumption about how I am playing, that nova in those screenshots has no powers, only a shield mod, and a health mod, my weapon does  my killing. and fact is, it doesnt matter how a player kills the mobs, none of the frames or weapons matter at all if there is no resistance, no obstacle,, IE-no mobs to shoot at or use those powers on.

 

So if DE makes a VR room where you can spawn mobs in whatever density you want, with a bunch of variables to tweak for extra challange that don't drop cred, resources or mods, would that fix your problem?

[Tsukinoki]

@-Malachi-
And what about all of the players perfectly happy with the current mob density?
What about the players that dont want to have to fight 30-40 mobs per room to get through a mission?
All you're going on about is how you dont like the low amount of mobs in normal missions without ever taking into consideration the people that enjoy the current mob levels because if it gets to be too many more the mission just becomes an annoying slog with enemies constantly pouring into a room making it annoying to push on towards the objective.

For a lot of average players, 16 mobs per room is plenty.  Not that many people want an insane mob density like you do.

I actually enjoy having 80-150 mobs in a normal mission.  Any more than that and it starts to become a slog of sorts.
The dangerous shipment alerts started out fun having 200 enemies per mission.  But that quickly became a long slog of "Oh..I have 150 enemies left....blah..." and just wanting to get the mission over with, not deal with 150 more things I can kill.
I dont want every single mission to turn into that as that would just get supremely boring and annoying.

Maybe if there was a difficulty selector that increased the mob spawns that would be fine.  But just flat out increasing the mob spawns in all missions gets a NO from me.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Babellon]

So if DE makes a VR room where you can spawn mobs in whatever density you want, with a bunch of variables to tweak for extra challange that don't drop cred, resources or mods, would that fix your problem?

Yes, a VR room in dojo would be wonderful. A place where I can go spawn mobs and kill to my hearts content. then I can run missions when I need/want resources/credits and such. I am all for anything which adds fun, versitility and entertainment to the game.

 

@-Malachi-

And what about all of the players perfectly happy with the current mob density?

What about the players that dont want to have to fight 30-40 mobs per room to get through a mission?

All you're going on about is how you dont like the low amount of mobs in normal missions without ever taking into consideration the people that enjoy the current mob levels because if it gets to be too many more the mission just becomes an annoying slog with enemies constantly pouring into a room making it annoying to push on towards the objective.

For a lot of average players, 16 mobs per room is plenty.  Not that many people want an insane mob density like you do.

I actually enjoy having 80-150 mobs in a normal mission.  Any more than that and it starts to become a slog of sorts.

The dangerous shipment alerts started out fun having 200 enemies per mission.  But that quickly became a long slog of "Oh..I have 150 enemies left....blah..." and just wanting to get the mission over with, not deal with 150 more things I can kill.

I dont want every single mission to turn into that as that would just get supremely boring and annoying.

Maybe if there was a difficulty selector that increased the mob spawns that would be fine.  But just flat out increasing the mob spawns in all missions gets a NO from me.

Yes I am aware that many people are completely content with the way things are. I notice them every time someone brings up the idea of changing any element of the game. How ever in the same way they get to voice their thoughts and insist on game play in their way, I too get to do the same. 

 

A difficulty selector is a very good idea, normal-hard-heroic. on each map, the player selects the difficulty they want, and plays it. I'd be very happy with such an addition. Especially if hard and heroic added more spawns, tougher enemies multiple objectives per map, to the game play.

Edited August 6, 2014 by -Malachi-

[TenshuYuusha]

until the mobs stop spawning and the maps go empty....at times, those spawns amount to all of 10 mobs total. and I don't turn off the alarms, Im not sure where you make that assessment at. I unlock doors. the alarm stays on the  entire time Im in the mission, I go out of my way to make sure the mobs set off the alarm so that I am detected. the point is, the maps do not always spawn mobs in a rational way, the mobs stop spawning after a certain points, and the maps are completely empty in sections. the alarmss  aren't the problem the spawn rates, and consistency of mobs in the entire map  is the problem. when I go to a capture and no mobs appear at all, just me and  the capture target I have to ask, where are the mobs...when I run a sabotage mission, and no mobs at all aappear till I reach extraction and then only about a dozen or so, I have to ask, where are the mobs.

again, no one is talking about avoiding alarms. 

Odd, I often can't get the enemies to stop spawning, they often send the entire planet after me, especially Corpus. :s

Edited August 6, 2014 by TenshuYuusha

[DSpite]

you are very succinctly demonstrating my point. There is no challenge to 80 mobs on a map. that is why we need more mobs on the map, more spawns, An adequate resistance. I also bet that map took you about 5 minutes. Which is my point, 5 minute speed runs, barely any resistance at all on maps, while great for those who cannot withstand having to concentrate on one thing for more than 5 minutes, is trivial. Do we really want trivial maps? do we really want minimum resistance? I've  seen numerous posts about challenge and difficulty, but when someone brings up a component that would actually lend to those very things, people act like you've taken  away their teddy bear. 

that same map, you say fits 80 mobs perfectly, I say would of been more exciting and  interesting with 160 mobs on it. from one end to the other. When lotus goes " theres a large security force headed your way", 5 mobs  appear, and I have to wonder where the "large security force" is exactly.

 

to answer  your question, I expect no challenge from  80 mobs on a map, I expect no challenge at all when I have to walk an objective and to extraction with barely any resistance  at all. That is the point.

People want challenge, but no one wants to change the things that need to be there to give us challenge, People say the game is to easy, but no one wants to change the things that directly effect that. 80 mobs on the map is not enough. 

 

Don't you even try bending what I said. I did not speed run, and it sure did not take 5 minutes.

 

The Glaive throw animation+flight+catch takes about 4-5 seconds per shot, and even with perfect kills, that's at least ((80x4)/60) 5 minutes and 20 seconds of FLIGHT TIME, with no misses and no time gaps in between throws, which there was. A lot.

 

I played the map normally, I used cover and killed everything, hence the Glaive. You do understand that I have to throw that thing, wait until it kills something, and then returns, don't you? I did that to point out I did not simply enter the map with a Rank 30 Karak and spray killed everything while running forward. I only took Rhino in order to get a gauge of how hard the mobs would hit shields when I have to stand still when I'm throwing. I copped one missile doing it once, it would have probably dropped my Excalibur. Eximuses - and there was a few, take a LOT of hits from that thing.

 

I laugh at the idea you want a real challenge. If you did, you would at the bare minimum run Nightmare missions. But I'm sure you will have reasons as to why those are not "the correct type of challenge".

 

Also, "more" mobs is NOT extra challenge, it's just extra time. The only gripe I have is that all missions should have one guaranteed core drop, even if it's the lowest one, in order to feel there was an actual "payout", this is basically along the lines of Global Agenda way of doing things.

 

This game is not Borderland semi-open roaming zones, it's closer to Global Agenda, with actual instanced missions. You kill things on the way to the objective, do the objective, and leave. It's your problem with having unrealistic expectations, not the game's fault. You are not meant to loiter to attract more targets, if anything, tanks should arrive to actually kill you, and not act as more targets. GA had timed missions, that was the point, as you had to be efficient.

 

Feel free to make more demands as what you personally want included in U15, but try to remember that since you are not injecting money every month into this F2P game, changes will take longer then you expect. But not these you listed, because they are insane ones.

[DSpite]

Yes, a VR room in dojo would be wonderful. A place where I can go spawn mobs and kill to my hearts content. then I can run missions when I need/want resources/credits and such. I am all for anything which adds fun, versitility and entertainment to the game.

 

Yes I am aware that many people are completely content with the way things are. I notice them every time someone brings up the idea of changing any element of the game. How ever in the same way they get to voice their thoughts and insist on game play in their way, I too get to do the same. 

 

A difficulty selector is a very good idea, normal-hard-heroic. on each map, the player selects the difficulty they want, and plays it. I'd be very happy with such an addition. Especially if hard and heroic added more spawns, tougher enemies multiple objectives per map, to the game play.

 

WRONG. I said

 

"So if DE makes a VR room where you can spawn mobs in whatever density you want, with a bunch of variables to tweak for extra challange that don't drop cred, resources or mods, would that fix your problem?"

 

Just proves you don't want to play for the challenge, what you want is

 

"... I can run missions when I need/want resources/credits and such"

 

so please stop complaining the current maps are "wrong" simply on the principle that they won't let you farm FAST enough.

[Mokkania]

naw you misread

[TenshuYuusha]

This game is not Borderland semi-open roaming zones, it's closer to Global Agenda, with actual instanced missions. You kill things on the way to the objective, do the objective, and leave. It's your problem with having unrealistic expectations, not the game's fault. You are not meant to loiter to attract more targets, if anything, tanks should arrive to actually kill you, and not act as more targets. GA had timed missions, that was the point, as you had to be efficient.

This reminds me of old Konami beat em ups where the "Go!" signal would actually kill you instantly if you stood there like a jackass. :v

[Babellon]

Odd, I often can't get the enemies to stop spawning, they often send the entire planet after me, especially Corpus. :s

I wish I had that problem to be honest, I find to much empty space far to often, which a lot of times for me makes the maps feel dull and trivial. Many times Im going from room to room looking for containers, and while that is part of why Im there, the killing of mobs is always in the forefront of my personal objective, It just seems very odd to me when I go down that capture target or go destroy that sabo objective, or click that terminal, and nothing happens. anti climactic. 

[Babellon]

WRONG. I said

 

"So if DE makes a VR room where you can spawn mobs in whatever density you want, with a bunch of variables to tweak for extra challange that don't drop cred, resources or mods, would that fix your problem?"

 

Just proves you don't want to play for the challenge, what you want is

 

"... I can run missions when I need/want resources/credits and such"

 

so please stop complaining the current maps are "wrong" simply on the principle that they won't let you farm FAST enough.

YEs, I know what you said, My response which you quote was two seperate statements, Yes, I would love a VR room where i can kill mobs, And when I want to run missions, I can do so. The VR room would not have resources credits, the missions would. you are putting two seperate statements refering to two seperate elements together in the same sentence.

[TenshuYuusha]

I wish I had that problem to be honest, I find to much empty space far to often, which a lot of times for me makes the maps feel dull and trivial. Many times Im going from room to room looking for containers, and while that is part of why Im there, the killing of mobs is always in the forefront of my personal objective, It just seems very odd to me when I go down that capture target or go destroy that sabo objective, or click that terminal, and nothing happens. anti climactic. 

Idk, somehow it may sound like exaggeration, as it's odd you find enemy count too low, whereas I purposely get caught so an enemy sets off the alarm and because of my own "room clear" mindset, I often stay in one room for a while because killing one MOA makes 3 more come in its place, even when I turn the alarm off when I want things to settle down, it takes a while for those idiots to stop coming -_-

[DSpite]

Odd, I often can't get the enemies to stop spawning, they often send the entire planet after me, especially Corpus. :s

 

Yea, I almost opened a new topic to "complain" regarding this on my new Excalibur account, but wanted to do more research first.

 

I was in a room with a door to the outside of the Corpus floating thing and mobs kept coming down the ramps. Non stop. I'm like, OUT OF DAMN AMMO, and they keep coming. Ok, so dead, retry, new map, same problem, different spot.

 

I had to run past them, ie "rush" otherwise there's no way in hell I can kill them all. This is the problem I find with current content:

 

If things keep re-spawning:

 

* If you have gear AT the difficulty threshold, then you deal with them at reasonable rate, and move on before too many more of them can re-spawn and try again.

* If your gear is below that threshold. You are stuck there. You kill some, more appear.

* If your gear is well above that threshold, you can run the mission by holding the fire button down, and it feels "too easy"

 

DE idea of scaling the missions after taking a peek at player power seems like a step in the right direction. Limiting spawns to non stupid numbers, and using a smart system to see how players are coping, or putting something else that can hurry players along without making the spawns feel mechanical would also help. Global Agenda has mission timers, which felt contrived, I'd like to think something better is possible.

 

I don't KNOW what the best fix is. If I did I would not post it in the forums, I'd send it to DE and tell them they need to hire me. Lot's of games out there have different methods and they all suck in some way because everyone one reacts differently to different types of challenge and balancing that is a *@##$.

[Babellon]

Idk, somehow it may sound like exaggeration, as it's odd you find enemy count too low, whereas I purposely get caught so an enemy sets off the alarm and because of my own "room clear" mindset, I often stay in one room for a while because killing one MOA makes 3 more come in its place, even when I turn the alarm off when I want things to settle down, it takes a while for those idiots to stop coming -_-

Right, thats what I do as well, I will stay in a room as long as spawns are there, eventually the spawns stop, so I move to another room. and while sometimes yes, it does seem to be keeping up with me, at other times, the spawns will stop all together. I don't know how that is happening. Perhaps it is a bug, maybe I need to screen shot the empty spaces, and post it in bug reports when it happens, perhaps its not supposed to do that, and I am encountering some interesting bug effect that is random and sporadically occurs.

Edited August 6, 2014 by -Malachi-

[DSpite]

YEs, I know what you said, My response which you quote was two seperate statements, Yes, I would love a VR room where i can kill mobs, And when I want to run missions, I can do so. The VR room would not have resources credits, the missions would. you are putting two seperate statements refering to two seperate elements together in the same sentence.

 

If you did. I apologize. I get carried away at times.

 

This is also exactly what I would like. Actually.

 

I have no idea what's taking DE so long to implement it really, I'm sure they already have my credit card number.

[Babellon]

If you did. I apologize. I get carried away at times.

 

This is also exactly what I would like. Actually.

 

I have no idea what's taking DE so long to implement it really, I'm sure they already have my credit card number.

lol, its all good, I enjoy good discussion of things, especially things that many people feel passionate about. This game is something we all enjoy for all our various reasons, and we all want to see it grow  better, stronger, bigger. So if in having heated debates on these elements we can come up with something which lends to all our enjoyment simultaneously we accomplish our goals to the mutual benefit of all.

 

[DSpite]

Right, thats what I do as well, I will stay in a room as long as spawns are there, eventually the spawns stop, so I move to another room. and while sometimes yes, it does seem to be keeping up with me, at other times, the spawns will stop all together. I don't know how that is happening. Perhaps it is a bug, maybe I need to screen shot the empty spaces, and post it in bug reports when it happens, perhaps its not supposed to do that, and I am encountering some interesting bug effect that is random and sporaticly occurs.

 

I don't think it's a bug. It seems mission dependent. Mobile Defense maps seems to re-spawn a lot, even after completion, if you keep traveling along the tileset back and forth, so do Captures, as I did an Alert one (nightmare? cant remember) and Moas were actually popping up from floor plates IN FRONT OF ME and I was actually trying to hide in a corner because I was low on ammo.

 

Needs more testing.

[TenshuYuusha]

I don't think it's a bug. It seems mission dependent. Mobile Defense maps seems to re-spawn a lot, even after completion, if you keep traveling along the tileset back and forth, so do Captures, as I did an Alert one (nightmare? cant remember) and Moas were actually popping up from floor plates IN FRONT OF ME and I was actually trying to hide in a corner because I was low on ammo.

 

Needs more testing.

To be honest, I found the mass spawning is more frequent with Corpus than Grineer... which makes no sense considering what the Grineer are supposed to do. :P

For me it seems all missions do this except Extermination.

[Babellon]

I don't think it's a bug. It seems mission dependent. Mobile Defense maps seems to re-spawn a lot, even after completion, if you keep traveling along the tileset back and forth, so do Captures, as I did an Alert one (nightmare? cant remember) and Moas were actually popping up from floor plates IN FRONT OF ME and I was actually trying to hide in a corner because I was low on ammo.

 

Needs more testing.

Which leads me to the question of why am I finding these empty maps, the other day, I did a capture, and from start point to the first capture target, I think I had maybe a dozen mobs. when I got to the capture target there were no mobs at all. I stood there, over the downed target for about 10 minutes, nothing happened. I moved around, checked corridors, side rooms, nothing appeared. I clicked the downed target, lotus gives me the incoming forces vo, and I wait, nothing appeared. I ran toward the second target, and eventually did find mobs. all packed into one area. once I killed them, I made my way to the next target, there were a few mobs, and I killed them and downed the target, and once again, no mobs appeared. I ran to extraction, just before extraction maybe a dozen more spawned right on top of me, I killed them, and then extracted because the map stayed empty...So If someone has some suggestions for me then on what I may be doing that is causing this phenomenon I'll definitely adjust myself.

[DSpite]

One "suggestion" to DE that would make sense, would be for them to implement a new type of mission format, with a concept along the lines of the Alerts, specifically aimed at the fact they already know we are going in there so Forma heavy we could sink a ship.

 

The mission could follow the standard mission type it does now, but have higher leveled starting spawns, more aggressive re-spawns for re-enforcements, better geared opponents, etc etc, and the rewards could be based on how well the mission is completed overall, so that we don't get drops IN mission, we get drops FOR the mission, and again, based on performance.

 

The challenge for DE would be finding decent mission parameters that make sense so we can't once again take the min-max route to try and squeeze maximum rewards by gaming the system, and instead actually do the missions for the challenge itself the mission brings.

 

Good luck balancing that for everyone.

[Galuf]

Maybe another game mode like nightmare but with mob quantity. I come back on the thread because those few days I farmed very rare mods with moderate to very high success.(got all the stances except crimson but I have high hopes on this one).

 

Ok so most things are farmable in the game but there may be ways for the players to interact with spawning at map launch. For exemple when farming elite crewen solo in Neso why not beeing able to multiply the mob count. So you run it once instead of 10. Less degrading and more fun. Anyway you have done your maths, you know where a mod spawn so you should be able to farm it decently. Not chasing rare mobs that are rare because of missbalance.

 

The fact that some mods are more common in events is fine too, but it needs to be a constant thing. I got my uncommon dagger stance yesterday solo and it was a fun grind. Nekros alone in a survival infested map for 55mn but I got it. :)

 

Atm when I'm farming, and it's poor farming, eu server with pubbies I recruit on the chan that barely listen and do not play properly for 90% it needs to be precise. Some mobs need some particular mechanics that are not intuitive to be farmed properly. I.E. not getting pulled by the flow in mobile def, camping a spawn at right distance to kill it fast but not make it spawn further away...(note that melee is usually bad except on that regard). It breaks the fun and the immersion.

 

Mobile defs should have set spawners and closed doors so it becomes inuitive again in a forced way by keeping the map properties.

 

About Void, what I dislike the most about it is that it reward too much player stacking and punish too much solo plays. You farm a map with 4 players you get 4 keys, you use those keys you get others OR at least are closer to what you need. It's not about T4 difficulty. I solo T4, I can 20mn a T4 survival alone it's not the matter. You should be able to cut a void key in multiple solo keys(2 or 3). It doesn't multiply rewards on the market but make things more even between different playstyles.

 

I have others simple ideas of this kind that would help newer players and make more confirmed ones more encline to play with them in pub groups. BUT no point in bothering you with further WoT.!!!!

Edited August 15, 2014 by Galuf

[DSpite]

446 enemies killed on a spy mission. They kept spawning too.

 

http://imgur.com/XTRmQhg

 

This is me doing a spy mission with 4 data terminals. No sprinting, no coptering, just trying to casually walk everywhere in a Corpus ship, and returning fire when something attacked me. Happened a lot, even this room at the extraction,

 

http://imgur.com/VYPpk6f

 

kept spawning things (went round the corner and watched it). Got 2 Eximus units. I mean, that room OBVIOUSLY has no other doors, this game just makes enemies appear anywhere that it considers out of LOS.

 

Wanted to see just how "busy" the respawning got. I only left because I got worried about crashes, and wanted a screenshot, also, I had spent a fair bit of time in there killing everything. Was not crossing tiles, just killing everything nice and slow.

[noveltyhero]

Instead of generally increasing the mob count maybe my idea can fix this issue. With difficulty options more mobs and slightly harder it can give you your own options as to how you play the game, if you choose to go harder you can with a bonus :/

 

Haven't updated the thread recently but: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/271503-how-to-fix-difficulty-problems/