Just Something To Think About.

[(PSN)theelix]

Bows will become meta as soon as rifles get nerfed, then everyone will be kinda forced to use bows because they're useful for stuff compared to other gear.

 

Once they're useful compared to other gear, everyone will cry out for them to be nerfed, and the devs will be quick to respond. That's how this game works now.

Bows have been meta, the only reason we don't see everyone using a bow is because a lot of people don't know what timing or leading is and they don't have the high fire rate and AoE type damage for charge. 

 

All the people who play a bit more hard core than casual usually realize bows are beyst.

Edited August 14, 2014 by (PS4)theelix

[Renegade343]

I said the whole realism thing as comedy. I'm not trying to actually put realism in the game. It doesn't fit. I'm just saying you're bringing a bazooka to kill few flies that are on top of a precious vase. 

Then again, bringing 540 reserve rockets does stretch the suspension of disbelief by quite a bit (granted, it is quite stretched already in Warframe, but might as well slacken it a bit). 

 

Gameplay wise, that means players would never have to use other weapons since the explosions are very, very ammo efficient (for a huge power), and thus would almost never run out of ammo, which does trivialise the game. The ammo decrease is alright, but it could be increased a bit more to 30-40 max base ammo while using the sniper rifle pool, or have 20 and use the rifle ammo pool (pistol for the Angstrum), but the rifle ammo drops (pistol for the Angstrum) would only +1 to the ammo pool (e.g.: If the player has 10 rounds left in his/her Penta ammo pool, then when he/she runs over a rifle ammo pool, it would only +1 to the ammo pool to make it go up to 11 rounds). 

[(PSN)theelix]

Then again, bringing 540 reserve rockets does stretch the suspension of disbelief by quite a bit (granted, it is quite stretched already in Warframe, but might as well slacken it a bit). 

 

Gameplay wise, that means players would never have to use other weapons since the explosions are very, very ammo efficient (for a huge power), and thus would almost never run out of ammo, which does trivialise the game. The ammo decrease is alright, but it could be increased a bit more to 30-40 max base ammo while using the sniper rifle pool, or have 20 and use the rifle ammo pool (pistol for the Angstrum), but the rifle ammo drops (pistol for the Angstrum) would only +1 to the ammo pool (e.g.: If the player has 10 rounds left in his/her Penta ammo pool, then when he/she runs over a rifle ammo pool, it would only +1 to the ammo pool to make it go up to 11 rounds). 

1 ammo pickup would be quite harsh. 2 would be better. We need to give them something. I don't think 35 rifles ammos drop in even one or two waves of ODD. 

[Renegade343]

1 ammo pickup would be quite harsh. 2 would be better. We need to give them something. I don't think 35 rifles ammos drop in even one or two waves of ODD. 

Considering the number of enemies coming to you in the Orokin Derelict Defence (i.e.: Quite a lot), I would say there would be quite a lot of rifle ammo pickups around the place (as well as pistol ammo pickups) to replenish the explosive weapons. Even more if you bring a Nekros to Desecrate, but that option is not always available, so I excluded that factor out. 

[(PSN)theelix]

I just realized something aswell.... 

 

Has everyone forgotten about consumbales?! Like Team ammo restore?

[insaninater]

I just realized something aswell.... 

 

Has everyone forgotten about consumbales?! Like Team ammo restore?

 

It won't help if you have an ammo pool below 50.

[RSITH]

No.

[(PSN)theelix]

It won't help if you have an ammo pool below 50.

Seeing as you can make hundreds of the things and place hundreds of the things I don't see how it wouldn't help. 

[AlphaHorseman]

Seeing as you can make hundreds of the things and place hundreds of the things I don't see how it wouldn't help. 

True, but you've got to also realize that it costs time, resources, and credits to craft these things. A lot, if you're talking about adding hundreds to your Consumables Wheel. Also, if a weapon is reliant on the consumables, it isn't a good weapon to have out on the field if it can't sustain its damage output through ammo intake.

 

And they give back some good ammo with each pulse, so when you've maxed out your ammo of 20 and the pulses are still coming, you've essentially wasted resources, time, and credits because you can't get the ammo restores back or stop the pulsating.

Edited August 14, 2014 by AlphaHorseman

[(PSN)theelix]

True, but you've got to also realize that it costs time, resources, and credits to craft these things. A lot, if you're talking about adding hundreds to your Consumables Wheel. Also, if a weapon is reliant on the consumables, it isn't a good weapon to have out on the field if it can't sustain its damage output through ammo intake.

 

And they give back some good ammo with each pulse, so when you've maxed out your ammo of 20 and the pulses are still coming, you've essentially wasted resources, time, and credits because you can't get the ammo restores back or stop the pulsating.

With snipers, it only gives out five, sadly. I believe they're only three or four pulses, they're kinda meant to be used in bulk especially since you can buy a 10 pack blueprint. 

 

I do understand where you're coming from, though. About how we should not have to be reliant on these. Especially since it limit's your range of movements. But it's part of our arsenal and one of our resources. And we gotta use all of our resources.

[kirean3464]

Havent had a lot of time to test the water with these, i guess i never really used explosives outside of defense or survials but my humble opinion is the launcher weapons have been screwed. and im not going to go into the maths of this its already been done by the six forma guy but launchers allready had major downsides to using them even apart from the can blow yourself up thing. i 100 percent agree a nerf to ammo was needed 540 grenades was a joke but 20 is even worse, i mean i was niave i figured meh ill just bring my necros blast rooms and get ammo that way, that plan failed at about round ten in a secura, so i though ok fine whatever time to finally level that sniper mutation and lose a little dps, that pushed me up to round 20 something with my necros. so yes there are no more box heros i had to jump down there and hope there was ammo for me and i had to bring a damh good blade and side arm with me, and i came to the conclusion  if im going to be in the thick of it anyway witha blade and a pistol what on earth would i want a grenade launcher for let me get a bow or my rifle at least then i can pick off the ancients before i have to go toe to toe.

 

 

edit excuse typos or whatever im at work 

 

edit again tdlr 540 was 20 much ammo 20 ammo is next to useless no matter what way you mod it

Edited August 14, 2014 by kirean3464

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

They need to change Sniper Ammunition into Heavy Weapons Ammunition, then make that the ammo pool for Space Arrows, Explosives, Sniper Ammunition, etc.

 

 

The Penta and Ogris always should have run on Sniper Ammo.

[Babellon]

If the only time ammo is an issue for these weapons is past lvl 30 mobs, Ie going into surv/def past say 30 minutes/30waves, then really, whats the argument? the game is set up to go up to level 30 enemies. past that, you've created your own dificulty margin. and the challenges therein are your own design. 

now, if it was set up so that maps had mobs above level 30 on world maps I could see the argument to some degree. of course, im also the person who wants hard/heroic mode on all maps with mercury starting at lvl 30 on hard mode, and starting at level 60 on heroic mode. But fact is, based on the games current set up, and difficulty on typical runs (runs that dont last an hour in survival and defense) the ammo capacity is good.

 

Further, arguing that having to loot a chest, or pick up an ammo pack some how stops the game for you, well....seriously? 

[kirean3464]

They need to change Sniper Ammunition into Heavy Weapons Ammunition, then make that the ammo pool for Space Arrows, Explosives, Sniper Ammunition, etc.

 

 

The Penta and Ogris always should have run on Sniper Ammo.

 

 

sure i agree with that the ammo pool was to large and the ammo drops to abundant, but as par for the course with this game a tweak or a little nerf is just not enough, we have to give them the lowest abundance ammo and nerf the ammo amounts down so much there not practical to use in anything but defense or survials and even then not for very long, why on earth would you bring a launcher any more if your flailing around for ammo ten rounds in its not worth the effort.

they needed a nerf but it was fun if they left them still usable lucky for me i know the routine with this game so i only had two formas on mine that would carry over to any fit im forced to use

[Doomauculas]

I use the miter... just saying

[kirean3464]

I use the miter... just saying

im leveling mine now havent touched it since the patch but i was enjoying it i can see a few ways to make it fun who does'nt like launching saw blades at things?

[Doomauculas]

im leveling mine now havent touched it since the patch but i was enjoying it i can see a few ways to make it fun who does'nt like launching saw blades at things?

I just wish i could put the glaive +bounce mods on the miter... it would look amazing.

[kirean3464]

make a post about it just so i can +1 it before it gets lost to the void that would be hillarious

[(PSN)Reaper_Shinobi]

so yes there are no more box heros i had to jump down there and hope there was ammo for me and i had to bring a damh good blade and side arm with me,

 

 

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what the devs intended with the rebalancing. How is it a bad thing that you have to now rely on more than one weapon. And how is it a bad thing that you actually have to pick up ammo just like every other person who uses an AR or bow. Launchers should be situational weapons used to take out large groups. I personally can't wait for the rebalancing to hit the ps4 it's gonna make me actually use my launchers MORE because bringing an angstrum, penta, or ogris won't be infinite rocket easy mode instead it will feel like I have a big badass support weapon that I can use tactically to eliminate groups while running and gunning with melee and pistols as my primaries.

[Teqnologyque]

Waitwaitwait-WAIT!

 

People have to Diversify and PLAY THE GAME NOW!? Why has this change taken this long!?

 

Get real guys. This change is to encourage the play-styles those weapons are supposed to fit. OHK AoE's are NOT supposed to be spammable, and Snipers (Bow-men in particular) are supposed to be cautious and pick their shots carefully.

 

The solution is simple; use both halves of your brain, and bring a pistol thats actually a pistol (Or pair, or machine pistol/s) with your sniper rifle/Launcher/Bow (Like I always have. Because its smart) and if you want to roll Angstrum or Castanas then bring along a rifle or shotgun. Y'know, Guerilla fighting weapons for a secondary that compliments the Guerilla fighting style.

 

I'm seriously reminded of the re-balancing of the Soma/Acrid/Galatine combo...

[(PSN)SancticuS]

 

 How is it a bad thing that you have to now rely on more than one weapon. . Launchers should be situational weapons used to take out large groups. I have a big badass support weapon that I can use tactically to eliminate groups while running and gunning with melee and pistols as my primaries.

 

Some major contradictions in your statements:

 

You should rely on more than one weapon

(It is called primary for a reason and it should be your main weapon while the others supplement it)

 

Launchers should be situational weapon

(Again, it is a primary weapon, no primary weapons should only be applicable for one situation)

 

A big badass support weapon

(You know what....it is your primary weapon, it should be used as such not a support weapon)

 

So unless you make a additional weapon slot or a gear slot for heavy weapons you should actually be able to use whatever primary weapon you chose as your number 1 weapon rather than a ad hoc solution that needs to be fixed with your other weapons.

Edited August 14, 2014 by (PS4)SancticuS

[kirean3464]

Some major contradictions in your statements:

 

You should rely on more than one weapon

(It is called primary for a reason and it should be your main weapon while the others supplement it)

 

Launchers should be situational weapon

(Again, it is a primary weapon, no primary weapons should only be applicable for one situation)

 

A big badass support weapon

(You know what....it is your primary weapon, it should be used as such not a support weapon)

 

So unless you make a additional weapon slot or a gear slot for heavy weapons you should actually be able to use whatever primary weapon you chose as your number 1 weapon rather than a ad hoc solution that needs to be fixed with your other weapons.

 

 

yep i agree with this guy and for the other two guys who pretty much said the same thing as each other,

its a bad thing that i have to run into mobs  when with my grenade launger because ITS A GRENADE LAUNCHER :P 

and its a primary you cant run through a crowd with a grenade or rocket launcher they are for sitting back and taking out groups of enemys

however you only get that consistently in defence missions, and the ammo nerf is a joke the way it stands now.

as for the OMG YOU HAVE TO DIVERSIFY NOW cheeseball statement everyone has there favorite weapons i dont spend all day on a penta and im sure no one else does same goes for boltor prime same goes for anything like that, i have plenty of diverstity thank you without you grinding a weapon i went to the trouble of making and leveling to the ground,

 

where on earth would you bring a rocket launcher or a grendade launcher to outside a defense mission ok well maby the rocket launcher but it makes no sense, situational weapons that lost a lot of things other guns have in favor of aoe damage they had enough flaws about them now there just not usable 

[Yazeth]

@SancticuS

1) I use the Brakk as my main though...

2) Then idk what Vectis is suppose to do besides one shotting dudes in the head.

3) Mutalist Quanta's a support primary weaopn though with its alt fire.

[Llyssa]

Funny, of all the people talking about how great it is that you now need more than just a launcher, since people should ALWAYS need more than 1 weapon....

 

Not a single one seems to be concerned with fixing the soma or boltor prime, so that you can't just always rely solely on them.

[kirean3464]

Funny, of all the people talking about how great it is that you now need more than just a launcher, since people should ALWAYS need more than 1 weapon....

 

Not a single one seems to be concerned with fixing the soma or boltor prime, so that you can't just always rely solely on them.

 

see thats where i think there is some confusion here, i have yet to meet a single person in game that relys souly on weapon x or y yes there are the standard everyone things are god weapons like boltor and soma but i rarely see those being used outside of t4 or maby lephantis, everyone has there prefered weapon everyone likes to mix it up, and have there go to load outs, my main primary is the dread because i love its style but then again ill take a penta or an amprex if im dealing with infested, i favor pole axes and long swords but again i dont run anything exclusive. the soma and boltor are indeed very good guns but there is a lot of very good guns the sybris is underrated as hell for exsample, and i sure will be finishing off leveling out my vectis tonight since the buffs.

 

tdlr i have no idea why people even care if something is "op" in there opinion outside maby pvp but i dont touch that myself. and honestly i flat out dont like the soma give me my gorgon any day