Remove Zoren-Coptering And Increase Movement Speed

[Synthua]

You can keep up without zorencoptering. All you need to do is to launch yourself off a wall. That method is even faster although it takes some practice.

[grillv20]

You can keep up without zorencoptering. All you need to do is to launch yourself off a wall. That method is even faster although it takes some practice.

 

if you wall launch into a wall launch constantly then yes but if the option isnt there then you cant.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

I think its fun, albeit really confusing  sometimes, if you have trouble keeping up, just go for slide forward jump, it makes you move as fast and even longer distances if you happen to use zephyr.

[Synthua]

if you wall launch into a wall launch constantly then yes but if the option isnt there then you cant.

 

You don't need to do that. There are many areas where you can take huge shortcuts.

 

Frankly, I wished there were many more of such secret paths instead of narrow corridors everywhere.

[Methanoid]

the video demonstrating parkour was exceptionally bad tbh, it showed that you can wallrun into places you could just walk/run to normally, and the obscure places you can occasionally get to has nothing at the end destination anyways other than the "look where i got" factor,or at best some have lockers/boxes which contain absolutely nothing of interest to players who arent brand spanking new to the game.

 

parkour is no more or less useful than coptering, in fact parkour imho is only interesting if your a new player, once the novelty wears off you realise it doesnt really have many uses, esp not useful ones, their more showoff uses, coptering does have a useful purpose tho.

 

parkour is a feature as is coptering, we dont need either removed in favour of the other.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Methanoid

[Alphafox]

parkour is a feature as is coptering, we dont need either removed in favour of the other.

/thread.

[Monolake]

Its a fun feature, but its out of hand. Coptering needs to be normalised. Some weapons propel you at ridiculous distances making mobility skills like Slash Dash completely obsolete and mods like Rush and Maglev useless. While other weapons - that cant copter - feel like complete garbage unusable outside of defence (hello Nikanas, fists, and most heavy weapons).

 

Put a limit on coptering distance/speed and give all weapons at least some mobility.

[Methanoid]

Put a limit on coptering distance/speed and give all weapons at least some mobility.

lets make everything the same with minimal difference.

 

 

your changes would in actual fact make coptering universally bad to the point that no1 would bother on any weapon, i dont think its something that can be "balanced" properly without total failure.

 

it would be better to buff those other useless weapons rather than change the core coptering feature.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Methanoid

[Monolake]

lets make everything the same with minimal difference.

 

 

 

your changes would in actual fact make coptering universally bad to the point that no1 would bother on any weapon, i dont think its something that can be "balanced" properly without total failure.

 

it would be better to buff those other useless weapons rather than change the core coptering feature.

Dont imply what I didn't say, thank you.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Monolake

[Methanoid]

Dont imply what I didn't say, thank you.

ofc the picture/etc is extreme but if the core coptering mechanic was changed that would inevitably happen, your 2nd idea of changing weapons was the better solution, the weapons themselves can be individually tweaked for improvements, changing the core coptering mechanic would have far too wide an impact on far too many things and to make sure ppl couldnt copter for miles on end (like the amphis) they would have to change coptering to such a degree that the "best" perform average/adequatly but the poor end of the scale would only suffer more.

 

imho we should have that "weight" divide.

 

daggers/light stuff copter far, medium are average, heavys dont go far etc, same applies to damage, light = crap but quick, scaled up to slow/heavy/massive damage.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Methanoid

[Trajhenkhetlive]

so you see a mechanic a huge portion of the playerbase likes and uses on a regular basis and somehow you think its a good idea to remove it because you don't like how it looks. wow .. 

 

as for rush, frame abilities, parkour and shortcuts they do NOT get invalidated by coptering ... they are, same as coptering, mechanics that allow you to go fast and that for many players is FUN. use any one or combination of elements you like and let others do the same. i for one sometimes use all of them when i do capture or assassination missions for example, yes even the rush mod.

 

like other have pointed out you can use parkour and shortcuts to keep up with coptering. i know this for a fact because i use heavy and sparring melee on occasion and granted its not as easy as using ONLY coptering but it works and i can keep up.

 

the argument for "play solo or with friends" makes sense in any MP game including this one because on public servers theres always a higher chance you will meet differences of opinion on playstyle and *gasp* they are all valid. same goes for the real world really ... maybe take this as an opportunity to exercise tolerance? have you seen ninja movies? if normal earth bound ninjas can fly around like crazy why you trying to keep us space ninjas down? have i mentioned coptering is fun?

 

Even the worst kung fu movie does not have the main character running to and fro using his special "weapon technique". It looks ridiculous. Allowing coptering was a cop out by DE who didn't want to deal with redoing stamina, parkour, and stage design. As to the "a lot of players like it" argument, well I'd like to buy Forma, Catalyst, and Reactors blueprints from the market for space credits and I bet most of the playerbase would like that to. But that would be a bad design for DE. How is it fun to have to do a fighting gamish timed mechaniac to have Run 2.0?

 

You know instead of getting rid of the mechaniac, they could keep it in, but give it a serious stamina penalty. It should only be used to either get in the thick of things for a short period, or out of hot water (since the issue is only limited to certain weapons). Coptering takes away from parkour and rush mods because all those are anchored by stamina, not so the coptering. It needs an anchor to legitamize people to use other things.

[Alphafox]

 

You know instead of getting rid of the mechaniac, they could keep it in, but give it a serious stamina penalty. It should only be used to either get in the thick of things for a short period, or out of hot water (since the issue is only limited to certain weapons). Coptering takes away from parkour and rush mods because all those are anchored by stamina, not so the coptering. It needs an anchor to legitamize people to use other things.

Someone was obviously not there when DE tried to ''revamp'' stamina. The playerbase hated it.

Coptering doesn't take away from parkour and rush mods, it complement them,I don't know about you but I use all of those together.

 

When parkour will be functional and not clunky maybe that topic will have some value.

[kaz3n]

No,,, No,,, No,,, 

 

I enjoy bouncing left and right then connecting it to wall runs, its just one of the few things i truly enjoy in the game! the flow is excellent! This is a complete gameplay mechanic sorta like a meta that players gotta go through. 

[Trajhenkhetlive]

Someone was obviously not there when DE tried to ''revamp'' stamina. The playerbase hated it.

Coptering doesn't take away from parkour and rush mods, it complement them,I don't know about you but I use all of those together.

 

When parkour will be functional and not clunky maybe that topic will have some value.

 

The mechaniac is broken. You don't need to use any rush mods since coptering does not use stamina. You just need a weapon that will perform the maneuvre. Thus opening slots for other things.

[Alphafox]

The mechaniac is broken. You don't need to use any rush mods since coptering does not use stamina. You just need a weapon that will perform the maneuvre. Thus opening slots for other things.

Because opening a slot for other things is a bad things right?

 

Sadly for you that ''broken mechanic'' has been approved by DE. They tried to remove it once(indirectly),no one liked it.

[SquirmyBurrito]

You know instead of getting rid of the mechaniac, they could keep it in, but give it a serious stamina penalty. It should only be used to either get in the thick of things for a short period, or out of hot water (since the issue is only limited to certain weapons). Coptering takes away from parkour and rush mods because all those are anchored by stamina, not so the coptering. It needs an anchor to legitamize people to use other things.

 

It sounds to me like you've completely forgotten that coptering isn't just a movement skill, it is also a method of attack. A method of attack should not be nerfed just because you don't like it.

[AlphaHorseman]

Oh god, its another one of these.

 

Who the bloody hell cares if they copter through the map? You can fight and dish out damage just as good as the rest of them, just because they can fly doesn't make them better than you and doesn't 'pressure' you into doing anything.

 

You can play as you play, they play as they play, gimping other players of something they wanna do, when it doesn't affect your gameplay or the core gameply of the game, doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

They copter, so what? You can run and shoot things and play how you wanna play, don't feel like you have to do something about it or are pressured into doing the same thing as them, it's not peer pressure, jeez.

 

Breaks 'immersion', look at the new UI, that should break 'immersion' real fast. Sorry Pablo, love ya bro, but I had to say it.

[Issxi]

Just make coptering use 100% of your stamina and have a small recharge delay. Let them wait for it to recharge like us sprinters.

Edited August 20, 2014 by DarkD3filer

[Kashiki]

(sorry if this isn't that well written or i repeat myslef a lot - i'm quite tired today ´x`)

Okay, i have a feeling i'm not gonna get a lot of flak here, but here goes..

 

Ever played online with a squad before?

Yeah, then you probably will have seen Zoren-Coptering, using spin-attacks of certain, mostly fast Melee Weapons which will catapult the player at great speed and big distances.

Sounds ridiculous?

Yeah, that's what it looks like too.

 

It always irks me going into an online match and i already know people will just zip through tiles in a matter of seconds using this 'technique'.

Me on the other hand, i usually get left behind with my Heavy Weapons.

I can't copter myself, nor can i keep up with sprint mods.

Because of that i sometimes actually switch out my weapons for a 'Copter-Weapon' so i don't get left behind.

 

 

These are most of the problems i have with 'Coptering':

1) It looks ridiculous, completely out of place with the flow of the gameplay and less immersive

2) Players that choose Heavy Weapons, or generally Weapons that are bad at coptering often get left behind

3) Players might feel pressured into taking Copter-Weapons so they can keep up with the squad

4) Heavy weapons might seem less desirable

5) Rushers flying through tilesets in seconds

6) Makes the actual Spin-Attack less useful in Combat - zipping 30meters past your target

 

I really think Coptering as a whole should be heavily nerfed or completely removed and in turn the movement speed or sprint speed of all warframes should be increased accordingly.

You would still be able to progress through maps quickly, but you would actually walk and run, instead of flying  and spinning like a maniac.

 

In some threads about this have read numerous times: "But it's hard to pull of, so it adds challenge"

Do you really think so? pressing ctrl+e while running is hard?

And even if it were, it shouldn't warrant leaving such a weird 'feature' in the game.

The only thing it gives me is frustration and probably arthritis..

 

I think the game would look just so much cooler and immersive if players would actually run together into combat instead of everyone flying around with their melees.

I mean, 

 

 

 

What do you guys think?

 

Thank you for starting this discussion - unfortunately, I'm on the opposing side, it seems.

 

1. I agree, it's absolutely weird looking. However, it's one of those things that are bugs that DE decided to keep - personally, I've never had a problem with it, and I never will.

 

2. They should really try wallrunning, I heard it helps.

 

3. No, they don't; if you can't keep up with the squad, then that's a matter of your own lack of mobility skill. Frankly, I'm faster than most teams and I don't have to copter.

 

4. For coptering? A heavy weapon is less desirable? Really? For coptering? Is that the measure of a Heavy Weapon now? Not the metric tons of damage that they deal or the extremely powerful slams?

 

5. I thought you all state that the point of this game is to go quickly - it is a ninja game, after all.

 

6. If you can time it correctly, then you can kill. The spin attack is made to be an extremely powerful, but mid-level technique - if you want to be good at it, you need to be able to time it correctly and go for the right enemies. 

 

 

Coptering is just a bug that DE decided to keep.

 

I do agree that it should just be removed. It was okay when people had fun with it, but now it's just a tool for rushers. I only use slide attacks for killing, or for some more complicated parkour. (Jumping off one level to fall down and slide into the one under, perform a leap of faith and close the last gap with the slide attack, etc. All of these things can be done without coptering.)

 

Using it as general movement is just horrible.

 

A tool for rushers? Like wallrunning? Or the Rush mod? A tool to get from point A to point B quickly? Because we should all move the same, right?

Edited August 20, 2014 by Kashiki

[Dasmir]

Even better De could add a better animation for coptering !

[Trajhenkhetlive]

Because opening a slot for other things is a bad things right?

 

Sadly for you that ''broken mechanic'' has been approved by DE. They tried to remove it once(indirectly),no one liked it.

 

No skin off my back. Parkour and wallrunning will languish. Still I wouldn't quite say never in the world of software development. This is beta after all :)

[SgtFlex]

If your weapon can't copter then:

Sprint → butt-slide → flip → dive kick → repeat

 

Instead of complaining about other players' behavior; adapt your own.  Nothing will ever change if you simply demand change in others while refusing to change yourself.

 

WRONG!  You have never coptered while under the affects of Speed.

 

Usually if im under the affects of speed, so is everyone else, that's if I can manage to keep up with a coptering volt to get close enough to him to get under the effects when he casts it. Even then, when he does, it's just a flat multiplier, either way I will be left behind if the other people under the effects of speed are coptering as well.

 

Do the zorens have crit chance builds? Has anyone seen ichors under the effects of bersker? It's just flat out ridiculous how far you can get in less than half a second.

Edited August 20, 2014 by SgtFlex

[Trajhenkhetlive]

It sounds to me like you've completely forgotten that coptering isn't just a movement skill, it is also a method of attack. A method of attack should not be nerfed just because you don't like it.

 

Yeah except I totally said it should only be used for attacking or a quick retreat. Notice how I didn't want the whole mechaniac removed. As I said in a previous post, please demonstrate an example where something gains a burst of speed by merely equipping a weapon (and please no fighting game examples. I'll even accept a crappy kung fu movie as an example). Maybe a stamina hit isn't the answer, maybe they should just toss stamina out.

 

Parkour, Wallrunning, and even coptering are all part of the movement family and it's in need of an overhaul. Many people were drawn to this game since you play highly maneueverable space ninja's (or space warriors). Right now with the way things are, it's devolved to a minor bit of maneuvering and only climbing or wall running very little and coptering for more "advanced play". If it's not addressed (not neccesairly coptering, but all of the maneuver system), then the game will have lost a key element that made it a bit above what's already out there.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Usually if im under the affects of speed, so is everyone else, that's if I can manage to keep up with a coptering volt to get close enough to him to get under the effects when he casts it. Even then, when he does, it's just a flat multiplier, either way I will be left behind if the other people under the effects of speed are coptering as well.

 

Do the zorens have crit chance builds? Has anyone seen ichors under the effects of bersker? It's just flat out ridiculous how far you can get in less than half a second.

Yeah, I used a crit + attack speed build for my Zorens on Volt.  Under the effects of Speed, it is insane. 

[(PSN)japaneselonewolf]

Basically this is another nerf response because someone else did something I can't do, someone stole my kills, someone has something I don't have request. Don't play with rushers, play with others at your level and speed. People want to play with veterans because they get to go to the void and advanced locations, then have a problem when the same players exhibit higher skills. You want to run with the big dogs, expect a higher skill level.