Coptering Discussed In Depth (Like Really In Depth) And Arguments On Why It Needs To Change.

[Tr1ples1xer]

You got stomped on by like, 2 livestreams. It is here to stay, and is now 'officially' a feature.

 

Beautiful post ! look at that, I just had to lol so 1337

[Lukap99]

Sorry I am not an english native, I have never had more fun finding shortcuts and combining all the movements possible in this game in my 20 years of PC gaming, that is true and my opinion. But I can't expect everyone to use it like I do, you really have to master the coptering and everything else to really appreciate it. I am trying to show people what is possible because walking and using stairs is boring to me, this game is all about fast paced movements and crazy action.

 

Nothing to add here.

I'm curious, have you ever tried rocket jumping in other games? TF2 or Quake for instance.

Since it seems you like advanced movement systems in video games.

 

I play TF2 often, and have mastered the "Force 'a' Nature" super jump and I'm working on my rocket jumping skills.

I really feel as though coptering can't compare to that, but that's just me.

 

''holding a bunch of buttons in a specific order'' is not considered skills ? I'm curious to know what you consider skill ? because shooting stuff is only aiming mouse clicking a button and everygame in history is played by combining button presses. If you want to parkour like the best, you need skill period, some moves are really intricate it is not just copter, its the way you can combine everything.

 

Perhaps I should have worded that better.

What I mean is, coptering right now isn't hard to execute. It's so easy that it's become a sort of second nature to me, and I'm sure to a lot of other people.

I've tried combining it with a wall sling, and I have not found it very difficult to do.

 

As for reading the OP we already agreed that parkour/coptering is the key to this games success I know he doesn't want it removed, I was just replying to they guy that said it had to go, not too OP directly. If your only asking for an animation to replace dangling feets that i understand and agree It could be better implemented.

 

A bit of carelessness on my part, apologies to that.

 

Also, I assume OP isn't just talking about the dangly feet; but coptering as a movement mechanic, and how it can be balanced for all weapons.

 

I'm trying to be polite here stop name calling or trying to say I'm 14 that is uncalled for.

 

Look, I'm sorry I said that one thing for which I got a perma-warning point for. I also accounted for the chance that you're not a native English speaker; "Forgive me if I'm wrong."

 

Also, I don't recall calling you any names in my previous post. Again, sorry if I slipped.

 

DE_Steve is the main man, if he says its staying in you can bet your @$$ its staying in and I'm very glad he understands the importance of movement in this game.

[Lukap99]

You got stomped on by like, 2 livestreams. It is here to stay, and is now 'officially' a feature.

I'm getting tired of saying this, but OP doesn't want coptering gone. At least not anymore.

He wants it to be balanced for heavy and fast weapons.

[Virdigo]

I didn't read the whole thread but I'll just put in my two cents as a veteran player...  I don't care, take away coptering I can still do forward front flips that build more momentum overall than coptering and I'll still leave you noobs behind.  So this entire thread is a noob *@##$ing about a mechanic ultimately put in cause the noobs couldn't do a sliding front flip to save their life and now they're *@##$ing about it cause they they only see that one thing.  The guy zipping across the room in a zoren spin, not realizing that manuver once it's done carries little velocity into the next move.  So to reiterate, spin attacks carry little momentum after a move, slide flip slide flip can keep building speed until you hit a wall so the story is you have no idea how people are really dusting you on speed runs do you.

[RealPandemonium]

I didn't read the whole thread but I'll just put in my two cents as a veteran player...  I don't care, take away coptering I can still do forward front flips that build more momentum overall than coptering and I'll still leave you noobs behind.  So this entire thread is a noob *@##$ing about a mechanic ultimately put in cause the noobs couldn't do a sliding front flip to save their life and now they're *@##$ing about it cause they they only see that one thing.  The guy zipping across the room in a zoren spin, not realizing that manuver once it's done carries little velocity into the next move.  So to reiterate, spin attacks carry little momentum after a move, slide flip slide flip can keep building speed until you hit a wall so the story is you have no idea how people are really dusting you on speed runs do you.

You could have just said "git gud skrub" and people would understand it better than this profanity-laden, paragraph-less attempt at flaming.

Edited September 13, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Lukap99]

I didn't read the whole thread but I'll just put in my two cents as a veteran player...  I don't care, take away coptering I can still do forward front flips that build more momentum overall than coptering and I'll still leave you noobs behind.  So this entire thread is a noob *@##$ing about a mechanic ultimately put in cause the noobs couldn't do a sliding front flip to save their life and now they're *@##$ing about it cause they they only see that one thing.  The guy zipping across the room in a zoren spin, not realizing that manuver once it's done carries little velocity into the next move.  So to reiterate, spin attacks carry little momentum after a move, slide flip slide flip can keep building speed until you hit a wall so the story is you have no idea how people are really dusting you on speed runs do you.

 

 

>"I'm a veteran player"

>Is an initiate

kek'd.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Lukap99

[Tr1ples1xer]

I'm getting tired of saying this, but OP doesn't want coptering gone. At least not anymore.

He wants it to be balanced for heavy and fast weapons.

Jat kittag coptering +1 =D

 

also why is kronen not good for copter ? those wings should fly !

[Lukap99]

Jat kittag coptering +1 =D

 

also why is kronen not good for copter ? those wings should fly !

 

From the videos that I've watched I assume that DE intended it to be easy to aim. So no ridiculous chasm jumping momentum here.

I personally think it's fine as is, if this video is anything to judge by.

 

Edited September 13, 2014 by Lukap99

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I think the OP is missing the point behind the rocketjump comparison.

It's not "hey guiz, coptering is just like rocketjumping in TF2 where it's built into the game intentionally." It's Quake-style "this gameplay exploit makes for better skill-based gameplay, therefore we don't want to get rid of it."

 

The skiing reference to Tribes is particularly apt. Note that it's not being compared to the developed skiing in Tribes 2/Vengeance/Ascend, no. It's being compared to the wholly emergent phenomenon in Starsiege: Tribes, AKA Tribes 1.

 

I think you're making a really unfair comparison. Coptering as it stands right now is an exploit that results in better gameplay, so the devs are leaving it in. It's not a planned feature with everything balanced around it like Skiing in Ascend or Rocketjumping in TF2.

 

 

- Why sprint? I'll just keep spamming it entire mission and it will do a way better job than any sprinting.

 

One, sprinting is easy. Two, coptering for long periods gets tedious for your wrists. Three, not all weapons copter well. (Dragon Nika copters poorly. Ditto Orthos Prime, two of the top three melee weapons for damage. Dakra w/CD copters decently but not nearly as well as scoliac/zoren/ichorcopters.)

 

 

- Also all those wallrunning sections level designers made? Well coptering does a better job, why bother?

 

Coptering doesn't do the job better. Coptering can make certain aspects of a given section easier, but coptering is almost wholly horizontal movement and it's very possible to overshoot your copter. Completing some of those huge void parkour courses takes more than coptering, and indeed at some points coptering can make you overshoot your target, costing you precious time.

 

 

- Oh you're crafting zephyr cause you like to fly all over the levels in ridiculous speeds? Why bother? My zorens already does a decent job at that. Wormholes? Teleporting? Lol wat I can't hear you over the sound of my zorens.

 

Zephyr copters even better than normal due to her reduced falling speed/weight. And comparing copters to wormholes and teleporting? Are you serious? Those two abilities are like the only two that are even better than coptering for mobility. :\

 

 

This is where I am sure some of us hate it.

 

TBH, it sounds like your objections are irrational.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[RiouHotaru]

The devs have admitted that coptering looks awkward, and mentioned how they want to give it it's own animations so it doesn't look like a super-awkward spin-attack.  I think that would greatly help it out if didn't look like the Frame was having a fit.

[Edgarhighman]

I hope this thread dies. I'm not a founder, I've played maybe 1 solid year or so (missing updates from after Kogake TO the beginning of Loki/angstrum release)

 

I've enjoyed the use of spin attack "coptering" Some people may be more... fluent at it than others, producing crazy results. But the nerfing of it... the game has seen some downfall with nerfs and its like RIPPING a part of FUN out every time.  I'm concerned with the future of this game.  I haven't seen coptering awkward. Leave that to the awkward people Anyone can take a good thing and pervert it. DON'T do it to warframe.

[LoneTonberry]

>"I'm a veteran player"

>Is an initiate

kek'd.

 

You do know forum rank has nothing to do with in game rank right? He's an initiate on the forums because of his low post count. Furthermore mastery rank itself means nothing to overall player skill since that is only a measure of how many pieces of equipment you've leveled up.

[Lukap99]

You do know forum rank has nothing to do with in game rank right? He's an initiate on the forums because of his low post count. Furthermore mastery rank itself means nothing to overall player skill since that is only a measure of how many pieces of equipment you've leveled up.

Oh? I thought it corresponded to our mastery rank in-game.

Huh...

Still, it doesn't excuse him from being such a jerk.

[(PSN)Zeylon]

You do know forum rank has nothing to do with in game rank right? He's an initiate on the forums because of his low post count. Furthermore mastery rank itself means nothing to overall player skill since that is only a measure of how many pieces of equipment you've leveled up.

 

Not actually true.   Mastery Rank shows how many mastery rank tests you've passed.  You could take most Warframes to 30 and lots of weapons without ever taking a Mastery test.  After 8, you could've leveled every weapon in the game and stopped taking tests and no one would know.

[Kestral9999]

Jat kittag coptering +1 =D

 

also why is kronen not good for copter ? those wings should fly !

Because coptering is completely unbalanced and still reliant on a glitch with the numbers. 

If we had some kind of base slide attack speed that was shared across all weapons within that tier, it would be copter viable.

 

I know how disappointed you must have been to find it isn't an end all coptering weapon. Guess the Kronen is likely already in your trashcan.

[Tr1ples1xer]

Because coptering is completely unbalanced and still reliant on a glitch with the numbers. 

If we had some kind of base slide attack speed that was shared across all weapons within that tier, it would be copter viable.

 

I know how disappointed you must have been to find it isn't an end all coptering weapon. Guess the Kronen is likely already in your trashcan.

I keep every weapon even If I don't like it (I still have the embolist...)

Dissapointed that the kronen does not copter indeed, its sitting on my shelf since its lvl 30, no copter=no use but I have plenty of copter weapons so no biggy.

[Aspari]

Justice bump for this thread.

[APBladeX]

Justice bump II

[cyrus106]

I keep every weapon even If I don't like it (I still have the embolist...)

Dissapointed that the kronen does not copter indeed, its sitting on my shelf since its lvl 30, no copter=no use but I have plenty of copter weapons so no biggy.

no copter= no use?

Meanwhile, my dragon nikana and obex wreck entire hordes with volt speed, lol

[Repligon]

I think it's wrong to compare coptering with rocket-jump. While they both origin from game mechanics exploit there is a very important difference between them.

Rocket-jump is not a good mean of movement on it's own but a good tactic addition. It supplements gameplay by adding new skill-requiring options.

In other words rocket-jump is good when it is used along with other means of movement.

Coptering (including directional melee aka coptering 2.0) meanwhile is a mean of movement that is more effective than all other means existing in the game. Coptering is plain faster and easier than sprinting and parkouring or even using movement skills. It does not supplements gameplay and instead devalues a big chunk of warframe movement core.

In other words coptering is good when it is used instead of other means of movement.

In this case coptering is more similar to bunny-hopping (last one requires more skill tho). And modern games either don't have it or have it in heavily restricted form. At least I never saw it as an official game feature.

I think this crucial difference should be added into OP comparison table.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Repligon

[Aspari]

I think it's wrong to compare coptering with rocket-jump. While they both origin from game mechanics exploit there is a very important difference between them.

 

Rocket-jump is not a good mean of movement on it's own but a good tactic addition. It supplements gameplay by adding new skill-requiring options.

In other words rocket-jump is good when it is used along with other means of movement.

 

Coptering (including directional melee aka coptering 2.0) meanwhile is a mean of movement that is more effective than all ather means existing in the game. Coptering is plain faster and easier than sprinting and parkouring or even using movement skills. It does not supplements gameplay and instead devalues a big chunk of warframe movement core.

In other words coptering is good when it is used instead of other means of movement.

 

In this case coptering is more similar to bunny-hopping (last one requires more skill tho). And modern games either don't have it or have it in heavily restricted form. At least I never saw it as an official game feature.

 

I think this crucial difference should be added into OP comparison table.

Honestly, this.

 

Coptering is to Warframe what K-Style was to GunZ: The Duel. Because melee in GunZ: The Duel was so barebones, clunky, and overall completely unsatisfying, the community resorted to the use of glitches to have the most fun. K-Style, H-Style, D-Style, "Insta", you name it, they were mechanical exploits because the game's intended mechanics were deficient. 

 

Movement in Warframe? Sprint is boring and limited by Stamina, parkour is clunky, sticky, and unreliable (both vaulting and wall-running), and Warframe mobility abilities aren't all that great and are overshadowed by coptering and directional melee. The intended mobility isn't fun or satisfying. DE also hasn't taken a creative angle on mobility either. (In fact, I can argue that Warframe mechanic and gameplay mechanics design is too safe and uninteresting in general , but that's another thread topic.)

[-FV-Wsocks]

Coptering and Directional melee encourage people to spread out and play a lonely 4man match. No reason to stick together or use teamwork when, if someone goes down, you can get to a team mate on the other side of the map with a weapon that offers such movement possibilities such as the Tipedo. People's movement shouldn't be limited by the melee weapon that they chose to bring to a match. 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

It's fun. But fun is a crime apparently.

[Adder9]

Coptering posts like this give me a headache. 

 

For all intents and purposes an identical debate can be found between Bill Nye and Ken Ham. The two sides are never going to see the same picture because they're looking through different lenses at the same world. 

 

IMO, the end fate of coptering must be decided by the numbers. As shown in https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/386267-january-16th-community-hot-topics/   a majority of the players here have a problem with the mechanics of coptering. I've invited two new players to this game, both of them quit because they were being left behind by vets who copter and butt scoot their way through the levels. 

 

Also IMO, there's nothing wrong with reducing coptering to more of an aerial spin. I accidentally coptered into an enemy while trying to perform a slide attack, and the effect felt quite rewarding. Coptering may be an unintended side effect or "mutation" in the game, but it has great potential to evolve now. Yes, it is fun, but IMO, volt's speed/zephyr's tail wind/valkyr's rip line are all more fun.

 

EDIT: Please ignore my metaphor if you don't like it. The point is that the helitenno and the landlubbers will never see the game and the meaning of fun in the same light.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Adder9

[cyrus106]

coptering isnt a glitch with the numbers, it directly correlates to the animation speed of the weapon. Not the attack speed, but rather the animation speed. This is why a 1.0 atk speed ceramic dagger copters 50 meters and a 1.3 atk speed dual zorens copters 25 meters. so its no "glitch" its momentum