Putting The Armor Back Into Warframes

[Jamescell]

Valkyr shouldn't even be tanky. Learn the definition of berserker kids.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Valkyr shouldn't even be tanky. Learn the definition of berserker kids.

 

I don't care about the definition of a berserker. What I want is a health tank and Valkyr fits that.

[fatpig84]

Valkyr shouldn't even be tanky. Learn the definition of berserker kids.

 

Except this is ninjas in spess and a game with a need of some sort of balance (even though balance is a little off at the moment).

Don't apply RL logic here please.

Edited August 30, 2014 by fatpig84

[Azawarau]

Though i agree all frames aside from the top casters need armor

 

I disagree that only valkyr makes the best use of it

 

Frosts shields benefit heavily

 

Rhino can actually become a godly tank without relying on 2

 

Saryn has this weird synergy i cant explain

 

Broberon heals <3

[Kamikiri]

Actually I don't see it, because if all the frames gain armor, then that will be the new baseline of damage.

Meaning that we should be looking at a 25% or 33% reduction as the "new 0% reduction" and go from there.

 

Which would make the current enemies deal significantly less damage against all frames that are not Valkyr, and if you're thinking about endless modes, then even valkyr will get to a point where she'll be down in one shot.

 

I feel reworking armor for everyone would also require rebalancing of the enemies to compensate for the loss in damage they'll get, which may end up putting Valkyr in this spot she was in when she had 300 armor.

And from what my experience, she didn't really see much use back then.

[Azawarau]

Actually I don't see it, because if all the frames gain armor, then that will be the new baseline of damage.

Meaning that we should be looking at a 25% or 33% reduction as the "new 0% reduction" and go from there.

 

Which would make the current enemies deal significantly less damage against all frames that are not Valkyr, and if you're thinking about endless modes, then even valkyr will get to a point where she'll be down in one shot.

 

I feel reworking armor for everyone would also require rebalancing of the enemies to compensate for the loss in damage they'll get, which may end up putting Valkyr in this spot she was in when she had 300 armor.

And from what my experience, she didn't really see much use back then.

My big issue is the differences in armor are little to none

 

15=65

 

155 and 190 are a bit more noticeable but still not much

 

600 you can feel the jump immediately

 

Also Valkyr can tank lvl 100 enemies without Hysteria so...

[fatpig84]

Though i agree all frames aside from the top casters need armor

 

I disagree that only valkyr makes the best use of it

 

Frosts shields benefit heavily

 

Rhino can actually become a godly tank without relying on 2

 

Saryn has this weird synergy i cant explain

 

Broberon heals <3

 

Yeah the issue is that only this 4 frames benefit somewhat.

 

Take into their Primes and you got only 6 good frames with decent armor and 1 good frame with great armor.

And only 7 frames that  can actually make use of Steel Fiber and armor boosting skills.

 

Everyone else has too little armor that it invalidates the use of a mod and several skills.

Edited August 30, 2014 by fatpig84

[DSpite]

Bur armor is not really "Armour", it's just a damage mitigation number.

 

I'd rather have separate Shields and Armor like EvE has it, with Health being smaller numbers all the time (In EvE it's the equivalent of what they call Structure). If an enemy depletes your shields and punches big holes in your Frames Armour, then death should be not far away. You could then have enemies with weapons that target Shields or target Armour more, just like we do, and even move Iron Skin to just add directly to the armor pool instead of being it's own special snowflake type of armor, basically a self-repair to Armour when activated.

 

You could keep bleeds, but only make them proc when Armour has dropped to low amounts, ie the enemy had managed to ablate enough armour to get bleeds through, same for Toxin and other effects.

[IfritKajiTora]

YES!
Sometimes I see the frames with low armor lose shield with 4 seoncds and that same amount of health goes down with 1-2 seconds.....WTF? Shield have own armor? Because I don't get it why Health drops faster than shield?

All frames needs armor buff because all is just too low, only Valkyr have a good armor and you can see the difference in health drop.

[fatpig84]

Bur armor is not really "Armour", it's just a damage mitigation number.

 

I'd rather have separate Shields and Armor like EvE has it, with Health being smaller numbers all the time (In EvE it's the equivalent of what they call Structure). If an enemy depletes your shields and punches big holes in your Frames Armour, then death should be not far away. You could then have enemies with weapons that target Shields or target Armour more, just like we do, and even move Iron Skin to just add directly to the armor pool instead of being it's own special snowflake type of armor, basically a self-repair to Armour when activated.

 

You could keep bleeds, but only make them proc when Armour has dropped to low amounts, ie the enemy had managed to ablate enough armour to get bleeds through, same for Toxin and other effects.

 

 

Real men hull tank with a DCU !

[Azawarau]

Real men hull tank with a DCU !

I have yet to play EvE but just like with valkyr on WF i plan to tank this way

 

Go hard or go home

[fatpig84]

 

I'd rather have separate Shields and Armor like EvE has it, with Health being smaller numbers all the time (In EvE it's the equivalent of what they call Structure). If an enemy depletes your shields and punches big holes in your Frames Armour, then death should be not far away. 

 

 

 

After re-thinking this, I will have to disagree respectfully.

Because Valkyr is now tough with her %DR tank, switching armor to a non-renewal stat (how do you heal armor ?) will lead to more preference to Hysteria.

[xethier]

After re-thinking this, I will have to disagree respectfully.

Because Valkyr is now tough with her %DR tank, switching armor to a non-renewal stat (how do you heal armor ?) will lead to more preference to Hysteria.

 

easiest way to "heal armor" in this case would be to allow slow regen of armor. (we're bio mechanical aren't we?) have things like rejuvenation speed up that regen. and have healing abilities (deployables, tinity / oberon) not only heal health but armor as well.

 

but i'm in agreement, i don't think that the EvE style of shields -> armor -> health would work here.

[fatpig84]

easiest way to "heal armor" in this case would be to allow slow regen of armor. (we're bio mechanical aren't we?) have things like rejuvenation speed up that regen. and have healing abilities (deployables, tinity / oberon) not only heal health but armor as well.

 

but i'm in agreement, i don't think that the EvE style of shields -> armor -> health would work here.

 

Well the main thing I worry about is Valkyr.

Having 1260 extra ferrite armor doesn't mean a lot in the long run.

Considering how fragile her shields are.

[xethier]

Well the main thing I worry about is Valkyr.

Having 1260 extra ferrite armor doesn't mean a lot in the long run.

Considering how fragile her shields are.

 

having full armor on her is quite obvious when you start donig t3 / t4 missions, she tends to shrug off damage wonderfully.

the problem crops up with mob scaling. she goes from ignoring everything to dead in 3 hits pretty quickly when mobs break the level 50 point.