Putting The Armor Back Into Warframes

[fatpig84]

Yes armor. The neglected step child of all warframe stats.

Yes Warframes have shields and modules to boost their main stats, but that doesn't mean you can neglect the armor.

That piece of metal that protects your body.

 

Currently only 1 frame can make good use of armor, 4 (welcome to the club Broberon) that can make it slightly usable. But there are tons more that cannot make use of armor effectively. This is a time for a change.

 

To make this simple, I will only speak about 4 armored type of frames.

And yes this is a little Math heavy.

 

 

Light (anything 50 and below )

Medium (anything 65 and below)

Heavy (anything 190 and below)

Berserker (Valkyr)

 

 

Maxed Steel fiber formula

Total armor = Base armor x 2.1

 

Warframe armor % damage reduction formula.

Damage reduction = total armor / (total armor + 300)

 

Legendary Valkyr armor.

Total armor = 600 x 2.1 = 1260 armor

Damage reduction = 1260/(1260+300) = 80.7% or 81% round up.

 

 

Now this is great armor for her.

But the rest....

 

Well if you had 15 armor, it is akin to you wearing a jacket trying to stop a knife stab. That is with steel fiber thrown on.

Even all the Warcry and Hallowed Ground in the world can't help you.

 

 

Yes. Not good at all, considering the game scales everything by percentage.

So the easiest solution is bring up everyone's armor.

 

===============

 

Light = 150 armor

Medium = 250 armor

Heavy = 350 armor 

 

Some people will say whoa, what ??

Yeah I am not kidding but the figures are not that impressive still.

 

Light with maxed Steel fiber

Total armor = 150 x 2.1 = 315

Max DR = 315/(315 + 300) = 51% DR

 

 

Medium with maxed Steel Fiber

Total armor = 250 x 2.1 = 525

Max DR = 525/(525 + 300) = 63% DR

 

 

Heavy with maxed Steel Fiber

Total armor = 350 x 2.1 = 735

Max DR = 735/(735 + 300) = 71% DR

 

 

Yes the numbers look big. 

But bear in mind this is only factoring in Steel Fiber.

Without Steel fiber, the DR% figures will be less impressive.

 

But ultimately, this is to make Steel Fiber more useful, instead of being only applicable to a number of frames.

Also even after an armor buff, not everyone will still throw on steel fiber.

 

But with this buff, it allows people who want their frames a little tankier and solve long standing issues with Steel Fiber and armor boosting skills.

 

 

TL;DR.

Give everyone more armor !

So Steel Fiber and War cry / Hallowed Ground armor buff will do something for nearly all the frames instead of just helping Valkyr.

Edited August 30, 2014 by fatpig84

[Kthal]

Good observations, it does bug me that the armour gap between Valkyr and the rest of the frames seems a little off, and how Steel Fiber does less for survivability than the second tier survivability mod Vigor in most situations.

 

I would argue 100/200/300 instead of 150/250/350 as the damage reduction values sit closer to what I would consider balanced

[taiiat]

i'd agree that Armor does not generally make a large impact on gameplay.

 

but i'd probably use numbers more like 120, 200, and 300 respectively. 

 

a slight bit lower.

 

 

however, i do have a concern of that this, even by a only a small-moderate margin, makes the game easier. we'd be able to stand around taking bullets more easily.

 

and more survivability isn't exactly in large call for, we already are fairly hearty overall.

[fatpig84]

i'd agree that Armor does not generally make a large impact on gameplay.

 

but i'd probably use numbers more like 120, 200, and 300 respectively. 

 

a slight bit lower.

 

 

however, i do have a concern of that this, even by a only a small-moderate margin, makes the game easier. we'd be able to stand around taking bullets more easily.

 

and more survivability isn't exactly in large call for, we already are fairly hearty overall.

 

Partially true that we can tank more hits.

But in the long run, when DE scales content again (which I believe they will) this will help immensely.

 

Also solve the headaches of armor boosting skills and mods doing nothing without a whole re-write of the armor system.

And yeah, the numbers are not set in stone, DE can still tailor make them, as long they don't lower down too much.

 

Too much and those issues we have will simply return.

Edited August 30, 2014 by fatpig84

[Renegade343]

What I think we may need is a new formula for armour damage mitigation. 

[Cleesus]

I was just thinking of writing something like this up but you have saved me the time. I agree with this. 

 

If they dont want to boost the armor to those levels then I hope they atleast still buff the base armor values and give Steel fiber a buff also.

[fatpig84]

What I think we may need is a new formula for armour damage mitigation. 

 

I tend to be on the conservative side as re-works tend to break something (like the new mod UI).

But do share it !

[Renegade343]

I tend to be on the conservative side as re-works tend to break something (like the new mod UI).

But do share it !

I am still creating the formula as of now (I have a feeling piecewise functions may be the solution, since all my current formula proposals are just one straight function). 

[[DE]Momaw]

My idea for improving armor was more flexible. Never gained traction. Just bumping up the values would be welcome, but there is so much more we could be doing here.

 

 

Right, so, you have your warframe and it's got armor on it. Armor reduces the damage you take to your health. The thickness of armor varies by frame. The thing is, armor is basically irrelevant for every frame except Valkyr because she's the only one that has enough armor that it affects her play style. Armor is also boring because you can't change it or do anything with it. It's just there.

 

 

So....  Armor mod slot!  Put it next to the Aura slot.

 

* Every frame has an armor multiplier instead of a flat value, so a light frame like Nova might have 100% armor while a heavy frame like Frost might have 300%.

 

* The actual thickness of your armor is determined by the rank of your armor mod; more ranks, better protection.  Because of the individual frame multiplier, tough warframes either get much more protection, or the same amount of protection for less cost;  light warframes can get some decent protection but it will cost.

 

* Instead of costing mod points, armor costs you mobility.  This is your speed, stamina regeneration, and casting speed.

 

* Armor comes in multiple kinds that have different effects, so we can get those incredibly poor protection mods out of the general pool.  So you might have "laser reflective" armor that rolls in the damage reduction from laser weapons, "insulated" armor that protects you from fire, etc.  Also opens the door for armor that offers unique properties, like "chameleon armor" that makes invisibility effects last longer.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Momaw

[SquirmyBurrito]

If the other frames get an armor buff I want an armor buff for my Valkyr ;)

 

I'm actually fairly serious. The other frames have huge amounts of shield and health (often those two together) where as valkyr has practically non-existent shields.

Edited August 30, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[fatpig84]

If the other frames get an armor buff I want an armor buff for my Valkyr ;)

 

She already has hysteria and warcry :P

 

And also she is the shiny example of diminishing gains.

Even if she gains another 200 base armor to 800.

 

It will only be 84% DR after maxed out steel fiber.

[xethier]

the actual values aside (it's entirely up to DE anyway) the concept you're following here is definitely needed (and would work well)

 

I also like Momaw's ideas although i'm hesitant about anything that introduces more mods into the game without some serious action taken on DE's part to reduce drop dilution. (like removal of the ability mods)

[Cannamancer]

It's kind of like Rainbow 6's armor system minus the mobility part. I would enjoy a good armor buff for a few frames.

[fatpig84]

It's kind of like Rainbow 6's armor system minus the mobility part. I would enjoy a good armor buff for a few frames.

 

Technically all the "heavy" warframes are sprinting at 0.9 (Saryn, Rhino and Frost/ Frost P)

Only Oberon and Rhino Prime is the exception.

 

No don't bring Arcane vanguard into the equation please XD

[negativecr33p]

This is great, we really do need an armor buff, 15 armor is just too low on those caster frames, but I doubt they will make them higher than what you suggested. Atleast make the 15 armor frames at 90 base, the 65 armor frames at 120-130?

[LukeAura]

If the other frames get an armor buff I want an armor buff for my Valkyr ;)

Give her her skin back? 

Oops. 

 

[fatpig84]

This is great, we really do need an armor buff, 15 armor is just too low on those caster frames, but I doubt they will make them higher than what you suggested. Atleast make the 15 armor frames at 90 base, the 65 armor frames at 120-130?

 

Then you run into the danger of Steel fiber and armor boosting skills being far too weak again.

At 150 armor, they have a 33% DR.

 

The lowest we can go without Steel Fiber being a waste of slot is 120 on the lightest frame.

Then their maxed DR will be around 46% with maxed Steel Fiber.

Edited August 30, 2014 by fatpig84

[Cannamancer]

Technically all the "heavy" warframes are sprinting at 0.9 (Saryn, Rhino and Frost/ Frost P)

Only Oberon and Rhino Prime is the exception.

 

No don't bring Arcane vanguard into the equation please XD

That has nothing to do with my comment lmao.

[SquirmyBurrito]

She already has hysteria and warcry :P

 

And also she is the shiny example of diminishing gains.

Even if she gains another 200 base armor to 800.

 

It will only be 84% DR after maxed out steel fiber.

 

B-but I don't like hysteria or warcry :( (no room for them in my build) 

 

While that is true, I would still appreciate the extra 200.

 

Give her her skin back? 

Oops. 

 

:(

[taiiat]

but there is so much more we could be doing here.

honestly, i like that more. why? it's more work but it's also features Digital Extremes can sell on. they sound flashy. they sound like content. they sound 'cool'. 

 

it also improves a feature that has always been awkward at the same time.

 

so everybody wins.

 

 

my favorite part about that is that the Resistance Mods could turn into Armor Mods. so we wouldn't even need to add very many Mods to make it a working system.

 

oh, and we can even have Cosmetics related to that system to sell... it's almost like it's perfect.

[Kthal]

The lowest we can go without Steel Fiber being a waste of slot is 120 on the lightest frame.

Then their maxed DR will be around 46% with maxed Steel Fiber.

 

 

To be fair, Steel Fiber being a waste on lighter frames would not be a bad thing, given how Redirection is (debatably) a waste on Valkyr, and it would make modding between frames a more diverse experience. It would also leave frames like Zephyr, which has a ridiculously large shield/health pool with an actual downside (also, a light frame actually being a light frame (oho!)).

 

One thing to consider, is that armour gives a damage reduction with and without Steel Fiber, so scaling armour up to 60-75 base (on casters) and doubling the gains from Steel Fiber would provide a much more balanced difference.

 

Numbers comparing suggestions, using caster frames where armour is meant to be light:

100 armour is a 25% reduction, with SF at +110% is a 41% reduction.

25%, a 1/4 reduction, is too much for an unmodded caster frame.

 

60 armour is a 17% reduction, with SF at +220% is a 39% reduction.

17% is a 1/6 reduction, which is much better balanced.

 

What needs to be remembered is shields regenerate, and health lasts longer. It is fair trade off.

 

With +220% SF, Valkyr might need her armour dropping a notch though...

 

600 at +110% is an 81% reduction.

600 at +220% is an 86% reduction.

 

Never mind.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Kthal

[[DE]Momaw]

I also wouldn't say no to a Corrupted mod which affects armor as an intermediate solution.

 

"Depleted Carapace"

+ Adds 50/100/150 to your base armor rating

- Reduces your movement speed by 3%/6%/9%

[SquirmyBurrito]

I also wouldn't say no to a Corrupted mod which affects armor as an intermediate solution.

 

"Depleted Carapace"

+ Adds 50/100/150 to your base armor rating

- Reduces your movement speed by 3%/6%/9%

 

I would use this mod.

[Renegade343]

I also wouldn't say no to a Corrupted mod which affects armor as an intermediate solution.

 

"Depleted Carapace"

+ Adds 50/100/150 to your base armor rating

- Reduces your movement speed by 3%/6%/9%

You have to make it consistent with the Steel Fiber ranks though. 

 

And then the movement speed may need a tweak after that, or else players cannot move at all if a Hobbled Key is equipped (assuming if the movement speed penalty percentage is additive before being used for calculations). 

[DarkLordX2]

Why can i only upvote this once?