Making The Word "beta" More Apparent.

[Slamyourjam]

This is exactly what I stated in multiple comments (not just in this thread). Aggression, anger, and inflammatory remarks hurt feedback. It doesn't make it valid or invalid, but it clouds the point of the feedback with a hostile tone. Calm and clear feedback, regardless of it is negative or positive, is less likely to attract hostile or aggressive behavior. And as I keep on saying, depth and detail, content and context, tone and attitude. These things are what make a review. These things are what make feedback. These things are what make comments.

 

More often than not, I do encounter very valid negative feedback. However, any sort of civil discussion is rapidly turned into a scathing argument by either the reviewer, the person that commented, or both.

 

It depends on how well the reviewer deals with the backlash. I would personally hate for people to come to my review and start saying "you shouldn't be criticism this game because its in beta". I don't know whoever came up with the notion that games in Alpha or Beta shouldn't be criticized but its become more and more of a popular statement.

[letir]

It's more like "i like it", "i don't like it" and "i don't care". And "i don't care" type mostly will sit in the game.

[Slamyourjam]

In terms of feedback, there is also a split road. There are the people that like it, and the people that don't. Both parties have people that are vocal, and people that are not vocal.

 

With the UI change, there are probably equal amounts of people that like it as those that dislike it. However, people that like it are less likely to make a thread or feedback on it, because they feel there is nothing wrong with it. On the other hand, people that dislike it are bound to make threads detailing why they do not like it. Because of this, it can seem that everyone thinks it is terrible, when that is really not the case.

 

This same idea can be applied to virtually everything else in the game.

 

I'm not sure if this is the case but a poll would really help with these things. If the majority of people vote for something then the developer will appeal to that group first but maybe they should make a compromise that is balanced towards more than one group. I know its not possible to make everybody happy but there's several ways you can approach a problem.

[PsychedelicSnake]

It depends on how well the reviewer deals with the backlash. I would personally hate for people to come to my review and start saying "you shouldn't be criticism this game because its in beta". I don't know whoever came up with the notion that games in Alpha or Beta shouldn't be criticized but its become more and more of a popular statement.

Popularity, as it has always been, does not dictate whether something is right or wrong.

 

Also, although it would be understandable to lash back at people that criticize something, it is on the reviewer to hold themselves to a higher standard, and to keep their calm.

 

The best example I can give would be of Phil Fish (the creator of Fez). People criticized his game heavily, as is always the case in any videogame. Instead of holding the high ground and responding calmly or not at all, he responded with anger, hostility, and toxicity. He became no better than his criticizers, and thus deserved every bit of criticism he received from that point on.

[Slamyourjam]

I like the new UI.

>.>

 

I don't like semi-opaque boxes on my screen.

 

The mods just seem a bit weird for me, I preferred the old UI because it was more basic but showed more detail where as this one is more flashy than anything. Difference of opinion I suppose.

[vaugahn]

I'm not sure if this is the case but a poll would really help with these things. If the majority of people vote for something then the developer will appeal to that group first but maybe they should make a compromise that is balanced towards more than one group. I know its not possible to make everybody happy but there's several ways you can approach a problem.

 

Well they do have the forum polls which you might want to check out. IMO they should do an in-game poll, as satisfied people are much less likely to come to the forums.

 

Here's the one with the UI poll in it: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/273566-july-25th-community-hot-topics/

[Slamyourjam]

Popularity, as it has always been, does not dictate whether something is right or wrong.

 

Also, although it would be understandable to lash back at people that criticize something, it is on the reviewer to hold themselves to a higher standard, and to keep their calm.

 

The best example I can give would be of Phil Fish (the creator of Fez). People criticized his game heavily, as is always the case in any videogame. Instead of holding the high ground and responding calmly or not at all, he responded with anger, hostility, and toxicity. He became no better than his criticizers, and thus deserved every bit of criticism he received from that point on.

 

Phil Fish is one of those rare cases of people that speak before they think. He approached people with anger and acted all high and mighty, one of the qualities that won't get you very far in this industry. Back to the main point at hand, it wouldn't hurt the developers to at least put Open Beta on their main website and on the Steam page, just so that people know what they are going into.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Well they do have the forum polls which you might want to check out. IMO they should do an in-game poll, as satisfied people are much less likely to come to the forums.

 

Here's the one with the UI poll in it: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/273566-july-25th-community-hot-topics/

Off-topic, but kinda funny how the total votes for "I Like It" ended on 1337.

[Gelkor]

The mods just seem a bit weird for me, I preferred the old UI because it was more basic but showed more detail where as this one is more flashy than anything. Difference of opinion I suppose.

 

Oh I thought we were talking about the in game HUD.  I like the new menu UI too, it took a bit to learn for me at first, but overall it's fairly crisp while being more immersive, and ugh, some of those old menu UI's were REALLY bad.

[vaugahn]

Off-topic, but kinda funny how the total votes for "I Like It" ended on 1337.

 

IT'S A CONSPIRACY

[Slamyourjam]

Well they do have the forum polls which you might want to check out. IMO they should do an in-game poll, as satisfied people are much less likely to come to the forums.

 

Here's the one with the UI poll in it: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/273566-july-25th-community-hot-topics/

 

Yea an in-game poll would be a nice feature, maybe award players with a bit of credit or a few common resources for participating in it would be the best way to go about it imo. Would be especially attractive towards new players.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Phil Fish is one of those rare cases of people that speak before they think. He approached people with anger and acted all high and mighty, one of the qualities that won't get you very far in this industry. Back to the main point at hand, it wouldn't hurt the developers to at least put Open Beta on their main website and on the Steam page, just so that people know what they are going into.

I'd actually prefer if they tossed the "Beta" tag and just put "Work-In-Progress" or "In-Development". Beta/Alpha mean essentially these things, but as many threads have proven, people are quick to scrutinize it and use it as an excuse for no real reason. Of course, there will be people that use these other terms as an excuse or put it under scrutiny, but I digress.

[Slamyourjam]

Oh I thought we were talking about the in game HUD.  I like the new menu UI too, it took a bit to learn for me at first, but overall it's fairly crisp while being more immersive, and ugh, some of those old menu UI's were REALLY bad.

 

I didn't realize you were talking about the HUD. Yea I didn't like the old HUD though thankfully I wasn't around back then to see it.

[Slamyourjam]

I'd actually prefer if they tossed the "Beta" tag and just put "Work-In-Progress" or "In-Development". Beta/Alpha mean essentially these things, but as many threads have proven, people are quick to scrutinize it and use it as an excuse for no real reason. Of course, there will be people that use these other terms as an excuse or put it under scrutiny, but I digress.

 

Any of those would be better than what's currently on Steam. The way I saw Warframe when I saw it on Steam was as a finished product, I honestly thought this game was finished ages ago back when Totalbiscuit made the video about Warframe Beta. 

[PsychedelicSnake]

I didn't realize you were talking about the HUD. Yea I didn't like the old HUD though thankfully I wasn't around back then to see it.

The old HUD received pretty much the same treatment as the new UI. It even had the same criticisms. However, as time went on and things were improved and changed, these criticisms were either scratched out or faded off due to the improvements.

[vaugahn]

The old HUD received pretty much the same treatment as the new UI. It even had the same criticisms. However, as time went on and things were improved and changed, these criticisms were either scratched out or faded off due to the improvements.

 

This. When they changed the HUD there were people all over the forums asking for it to get changed back and saying how much they hated the new one and how much it sucked, and now it's fine. Hell, the same could be said for when they changed the UI in the first place.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Any of those would be better than what's currently on Steam. The way I saw Warframe when I saw it on Steam was as a finished product, I honestly thought this game was finished ages ago back when Totalbiscuit made the video about Warframe Beta. 

Making it more noticeable may help. It may also help people think through their feedback a bit more, both the positive and the negative.

 

"Should I be more/less lenient?"

"Do I really need to be angry/calm?"

 

It works on both sides. But as I've said, nice as it may be, it won't be a permanent nor perfect solution. The solution is good, but there will always be people that seek out that perfect solution, no matter how impossible or unattainable it may be.

[Slamyourjam]

Making it more noticeable may help. It may also help people think through their feedback a bit more, both the positive and the negative.

 

"Should I be more/less lenient?"

"Do I really need to be angry/calm?"

 

It works on both sides. But as I've said, nice as it may be, it won't be a permanent nor perfect solution. The solution is good, but there will always be people that seek out that perfect solution, no matter how impossible or unattainable it may be.

 

For now its better than people going in blind. 

[vaugahn]

For now its better than people going in blind. 

 

I think they make it pretty clear it's a beta. You have to agree to an open beta agreement the first time you open the launcher.

[Slamyourjam]

I think they make it pretty clear it's a beta. You have to agree to an open beta agreement the first time you open the launcher.

 

That means you have to download the game first. Being a beta is a deal-breaker for some people. Especially on Steam where all that early access bs is going on.

[ndantony]

I don't think adding a paid service towards Warframe would help. That would severely cripple their audience since most people go about grinding their way through content and then there's a few that like paying for their stuff. I'm fine with the game being in Beta, I don't have an issue with that what I do have is an issue with them not stating that its a Beta on the Steam Page at the very least to inform newcomers.

DE has a closed beta once already. And re-opened it for good reason. The warning/disclaimer of "Beta" is more appropriate because your account and progress can be deleted, or some negative equivalence, as many other games have been using the word "Beta" in their games for.

What Warframe/DE is doing is acceptable. In facts, I'm playing and paying subscription for Elder Scrolls Online game right now and they are still in "Beta". And ZoS treats updates and patches to ESO almost like DE is doing to Warframe. How many games do you see out there that are so-called complete and release update/DLC as major as say U15 is going to be for Warframe?! It's a playable product alright but not yet completely satisfied and could be subject to major developments, contingent to player-base supports and response. And it's so pitifully wasted for huge potential developments yet explored by calling it complete and close it out of "beta".

[Gelkor]

That means you have to download the game first. Being a beta is a deal-breaker for some people. Especially on Steam where all that early access bs is going on.

 

I hope none of them used Windows Vista then.

 

"Bill Gates AMIRITE?!!?!?!?"

[Slamyourjam]

DE has a closed beta once already. And re-opened it for good reason. The warning/disclaimer of "Beta" is more appropriate because your account and progress can be deleted, or some negative equivalence, as many other games have been using the word "Beta" in their games for.

What Warframe/DE is doing is acceptable. In facts, I'm playing and paying subscription for Elder Scrolls Online game right now and they are still in "Beta". And ZoS treats updates and patches to ESO almost like DE is doing to Warframe. How many games do you see out there that are so-called complete and release update/DLC as major as say U15 is going to be for Warframe?! It's a playable product alright but not yet completely satisfied and could be subject to major developments, contingent to player-base supports and response. And it's so pitifully wasted for huge potential developments yet explored by calling it complete and close it out of "beta".

 

Elder Scrolls Online has already come out of Beta, I played the beta that it had. The difference between release and beta is that if your progress is deleted or a game-breaking bug happens the developer can't use the excuse "beta" to defend themselves which means it impacts them. Alpha and Beta titles for games right now seem to be used as a shield more than anything. Not to mention that in the released version, any bugs or glitches that the players encounter the developers are supposed to be unaware of them because Alpha and Beta is for bug fixing. 

Edited September 9, 2014 by Slamyourjam

[Slamyourjam]

I hope none of them used Windows Vista then.

 

"Bill Gates AMIRITE?!!?!?!?"

 

Oh god, the devils os.

[cypherhalo]

They should be more clear that it is in beta.  That is just treating your customers right.  Especially when they are taking money from people (and the prices are quite high).  I mean, at this point I can't imagine they'd wipe anyone's progress when they go "live" but it should be noted.  And if they feel the game should be out of beta (seriously, how long is this "beta" going to last?), then make an official statement to that effect.