Making The Word "beta" More Apparent.

[vaugahn]

(seriously, how long is this "beta" going to last?)

 

Until the game is in a state where it's acceptable to declare it complete. Considering like half of our bosses are still placeholders and we're still re-using old tilesets I think there's a ways to go.

[Legion-Shields]

Betas usually have a watermark in-game. WARFRAME doesn't. Its just called a beta to avoid turning people away from an unconventional business model.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Legion-Shields

[Slamyourjam]

Until the game is in a state where it's acceptable to declare it complete. Considering like half of our bosses are still placeholders and we're still re-using old tilesets I think there's a ways to go.

 

And when's that going to be? Its already been in development for two years and it started with decent funding. Beta is a near finished model.

[Slamyourjam]

They should be more clear that it is in beta.  That is just treating your customers right.  Especially when they are taking money from people (and the prices are quite high).  I mean, at this point I can't imagine they'd wipe anyone's progress when they go "live" but it should be noted.  And if they feel the game should be out of beta (seriously, how long is this "beta" going to last?), then make an official statement to that effect.  

 

I agree. If you're going to have a microtransaction shop in a Beta then at least keep the prices low. 5-10 dollars for a gun is crazy and the resource costs. Who would pay that much plat for few resources!?

[vaugahn]

And when's that going to be? Its already been in development for two years and it started with decent funding. Beta is a near finished model.

 

If you want to get technical I would call this game "active development". Beta is just an easier way to convey that meaning to your average gamer. And for reference, the average AAA game takes 3-ish years before it leaves development.

[ndantony]

I agree. If you're going to have a microtransaction shop in a Beta then at least keep the prices low. 5-10 dollars for a gun is crazy and the resource costs. Who would pay that much plat for few resources!?

I'm confused. What game or games have you played before that dictated that if the shop in a Beta then items prices need to be low?? Gun bps are available from market or clan tech with some small amount of credits. Also, except for few rare resources, many are available aplenty. And many of us rarely use market for that. Of course you can buy some from the market... but that is personal choice and unless you have advoid playing quite many given missions. It sounds to me you are playing online game, but expecting it to be offline!!

[PookieNumnums]

 

Forever Beta

 

 

beta = open for improvement !

[Vallerian]

It's really not a good image to send when you hide under the cover of 'beta' for a long &#! time

 

My guess is DE doesn't consider WF quite ready to be called a full production game, but at the same time isn't rough enough to be truly Beta

[Slamyourjam]

If you want to get technical I would call this game "active development". Beta is just an easier way to convey that meaning to your average gamer. And for reference, the average AAA game takes 3-ish years before it leaves development.

 

Triple A games are getting easier to develop considering how much money a company generates now. 

[Slamyourjam]

 

Forever Beta

 

 

beta = open for improvement !

 

No beta doesn't equal open for improvement. 

[Slamyourjam]

I'm confused. What game or games have you played before that dictated that if the shop in a Beta then items prices need to be low?? Gun bps are available from market or clan tech with some small amount of credits. Also, except for few rare resources, many are available aplenty. And many of us rarely use market for that. Of course you can buy some from the market... but that is personal choice and unless you have advoid playing quite many given missions. It sounds to me you are playing online game, but expecting it to be offline!!

 

You don't understand the whole point behind my comment. What I was trying to say but you completly ignored is that atm gun prices are too high to even want to purchase them. Sure I could buy a weapon for 200 platinum aka 10+ dollars OR I could farm it which would take me almost no effort at all. Some people complain about the grinding but I don't think there's enough grinding to warrant wanting to spend 10 dollars on a gun which yes it does come potato'd but a potato only costs a few platinum. I mentioned resources because no one buys resources. Maybe a select few out there that do but its minimal, might as well remove it than to give the option or at least lower the platinum prices for resources.

[Gelkor]

Who buys guns with platinum?  I use it to buy sweet sweet color packs and cosmetic items.  And slots for all my guns I've farmed.

[Slamyourjam]

It's really not a good image to send when you hide under the cover of 'beta' for a long @$$ time

 

My guess is DE doesn't consider WF quite ready to be called a full production game, but at the same time isn't rough enough to be truly Beta

 

I've played through many betas and I'd say that this one wouldn't even be considered a beta. Its been mostly polished out, the market and most of its features are fully functioning. The only things I'd say DE needs to add is endgame content, improve the bosses, make some of the weapons less useless and iron out the bugs and glitches.

[vaugahn]

You don't understand the whole point behind my comment. What I was trying to say but you completly ignored is that atm gun prices are too high to even want to purchase them. Sure I could buy a weapon for 200 platinum aka 10+ dollars OR I could farm it which would take me almost no effort at all. Some people complain about the grinding but I don't think there's enough grinding to warrant wanting to spend 10 dollars on a gun which yes it does come potato'd but a potato only costs a few platinum. I mentioned resources because no one buys resources. Maybe a select few out there that do but its minimal, might as well remove it than to give the option or at least lower the platinum prices for resources.

 

Have you noticed that all the plat-only stuff is totally affordable, and the only stuff that's overpriced is stuff you can just get easily in-game?

 

Edit: and this game is definitely a beta. Way too many placeholders and incompletes for it to be anything else.

Edited September 9, 2014 by vaugahn

[Slamyourjam]

Who buys guns with platinum?  I use it to buy sweet sweet color packs and cosmetic items.  And slots for all my guns I've farmed.

 

Exactly my point. Who buys resources or guns with their outrageous prices? No one in their right mind or newbies that probably thinking those mats will be uber hard to get. I've never seen any person on Waframe that has put more than 50 hours in it say that they would buy a gun with platinum, not at the current costs that is. If DE lowered the costs by half they would get more money and would be more affordable for the general public.

[Gelkor]

I've played through many betas and I'd say that this one wouldn't even be considered a beta. Its been mostly polished out, the market and most of its features are fully functioning. The only things I'd say DE needs to add is endgame content, improve the bosses, make some of the weapons less useless and iron out the bugs and glitches.

 

And I think that's why DE still considers it Beta, because it doesn't have those features (endgame) they really want.

 

What's interesting to me to note, is that 4-8 months ago the words BETA was splashed everywhere, on everything, and now it is as you say, much less apparent.

[Slamyourjam]

Have you noticed that all the plat-only stuff is totally affordable, and the only stuff that's overpriced is stuff you can just get easily in-game?

 

Edit: and this game is definitely a beta. Way too many placeholders and incompletes for it to be anything else.

 

I don't believe it has too many incompletes. The dojo needs a makeover sure and the devs have planned to do that, bosses need rework especially Sergeant Nef Anyo. Besides a few more things the game is completly playable and I don't think its missing much. I'd bet you that majority of PS4-Xbox One players don't even know that a lot of the bosses/items are placeholders.

[Slamyourjam]

And I think that's why DE still considers it Beta, because it doesn't have those features (endgame) they really want.

 

What's interesting to me to note, is that 4-8 months ago the words BETA was splashed everywhere, on everything, and now it is as you say, much less apparent.

 

The game doesn't need an endgame to work, I'm sure if they released it now as a finished product it would be fine because it has enough content to last the average player a good few months even more so if those players are collectors like me.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Slamyourjam

[DiBBz]

I've checked both the main website of Warframe and the Steam page and the launcher itself of the game, they have no mention of the game being in beta stage of development. I find this to be an issue to newcomers because they don't know whether this is a finished product or not unless they check the Warframe forums which is the only mention I've seen of it being in beta. Making it more apparent to newcomers helps them decide if they want to fund the game or not or if they want to play it in the first place. I know that most of you enjoy Warframe as do I (although I do hate some aspects) and I invested my money before I even knew about it being a beta. Had I known I might have thought otherwise and so would many other people who play it. This is a suggestion because I had no knowledge of it being a beta until I sunk in 100+ hours, I don't want some consumers to make the same mistake I did.

you flash the beta tag when its in Closed beta or early beta testing and you also show it when its alpha

 

the game has been in Open beta testing for a long time. no one and i mean no one shows a sign like that when its in the current place as it is right now

[Slamyourjam]

you flash the beta tag when its in Closed beta or early beta testing and you also show it when its alpha

 

the game has been in Open beta testing for a long time. no one and i mean no one shows a sign like that when its in the current place as it is right now

 

Why not? Dayz been in Alpha for a very long time almost 3 years now and it has the warning "EARLY ACCESS" on it so have many other titles that are under Alpha or Beta. Why is it that Warframe doesn't get the same treatment? Warframes only a year old on Steam. Its better to educate the consumer than for the consumer to realize it him/herself.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Slamyourjam

[ndantony]

You don't understand the whole point behind my comment. What I was trying to say but you completly ignored is that atm gun prices are too high to even want to purchase them. Sure I could buy a weapon for 200 platinum aka 10+ dollars OR I could farm it which would take me almost no effort at all. Some people complain about the grinding but I don't think there's enough grinding to warrant wanting to spend 10 dollars on a gun which yes it does come potato'd but a potato only costs a few platinum. I mentioned resources because no one buys resources. Maybe a select few out there that do but its minimal, might as well remove it than to give the option or at least lower the platinum prices for resources.

Exactly. That's my point, there is not enough grinding to justify buying it from the Market. And just as you've said, you can acquired it effortlessly. In facts, a lots of us were hoping that DE would make it harder; rather than make it too easy and people would take it for granted. It's just like someone makes plats through trading and turns around and asks who would be stupid enough to buy plats from DE in the first place. And what's wrong with keeping it as an option. It is a least an option for those few who didn't even want to play at all, and at least something to somewhat pay the devs. So back to your reason, if something so effortlessly take you to get it, maybe instead of $10, you would consider $5...?? $1? or $0.50 maybe? or what price point do you think it's fair?? Do you see where this is going??

[Slamyourjam]

Exactly. That's my point, there is not enough grinding to justify buying it from the Market. And just as you've said, you can acquired it effortlessly. In facts, a lots of us were hoping that DE would make it harder; rather than make it too easy and people would take it for granted. It's just like someone makes plats through trading and turns around and asks who would be stupid enough to buy plats from DE in the first place. And what's wrong with keeping it as an option. It is a least an option for those few who didn't even want to play at all, and at least something to somewhat pay the devs. So back to your reason, if something so effortlessly take you to get it, maybe instead of $10, you would consider $5...?? $1? or $0.50 maybe? or what price point do you think it's fair?? Do you see where this is going??

 

Your example of people trading for platinum is a very poor example because sure, the options there but the trading post isn't very inviting or apparent to new players, I've sunk in 200 hours and I've never traded anything. Why? Because the trading post isn't very refined, it needs an official trading post like Guild Wars 2 or World of Warcraft has then it would be easier to get into and make trades rather than meeting up with people in game at a Dojo and penalizing them for trading. For people who don't like the trading post which you will find is quite a decent amount of people will buy plat and even veterans that trade for plat will buy plat. If the grinding is so easy then the resources should be harder to get or they should be require more resources, that's two ways that they can go about it if they want to keep the market guns worth buying with plat.

[ndantony]

Your example of people trading for platinum is a very poor example because sure, the options there but the trading post isn't very inviting or apparent to new players, I've sunk in 200 hours and I've never traded anything. Why? Because the trading post isn't very refined, it needs an official trading post like Guild Wars 2 or World of Warcraft has then it would be easier to get into and make trades rather than meeting up with people in game at a Dojo and penalizing them for trading. For people who don't like the trading post which you will find is quite a decent amount of people will buy plat and even veterans that trade for plat will buy plat. If the grinding is so easy then the resources should be harder to get or they should be require more resources, that's two ways that they can go about it if they want to keep the market guns worth buying with plat.

...ok. so you're taking a detour here and points out, instead, that trading post/system needs refine. Does GW2 allows you trade premium currency in the market like WF? What about general market prices items and premium currency costs equivalent?? or are you been fighting in that forum as well?? Also, You have pointed out that there are quite a few improvements that Warframe needs... ok, that's fine, I'm on board for that. Yes. I love to see some best ideas of other games to be built or integrate to WF... But you also said that beta is not equal to improvements or active developments... Please help us to understand clearer about your point of view, your position and stand of WF and its word "beta".

[Slamyourjam]

...ok. so you're taking a detour here and points out, instead, that trading post/system needs refine. Does GW2 allows you trade premium currency in the market like WF? What about general market prices items and premium currency costs equivalent?? or are you been fighting in that forum as well?? Also, You have pointed out that there are quite a few improvements that Warframe needs... ok, that's fine, I'm on board for that. Yes. I love to see some best ideas of other games to be built or integrate to WF... But you also said that beta is not equal to improvements or active developments... Please help us to understand clearer about your point of view, your position and stand of WF and its word "beta".

 

Seeing as Guild Wars 2 has both an in game market just like Warframe called the Gem Shop AND a trading post which is more of a player-player market, I'd say yes you can trade currencies. Gold can be converted to gems and Gems can be converted to gold of course this whole system revolves around player economy and inflation just like real life. I don't feel as if "trading" should have any credit cost tied to it because as the word suggests its people trading items there should be no extra strings attached and the cost to trade legendary mods!? Absurd. 

 

I never once said that a beta is not equal to improvements or active development, its exactly what it is. A phase of development of the product. The whole point I've been arguing through this forum is that the name beta which is what Warframe is, an open beta should be shown on Steam and on the main website to raise better awareness to the consumers. Its essential that the consumer gets this information before he/she downloads the game. I mean you wouldn't buy a car or testdrive it if the dealer didn't say anything about its condition, right? Same thing for Warframe, while it is a free to play people may want to invest money in it and people are more likely to invest in a product that is through Alpha and Beta which I'm betting is the reason why Digital Extreme has been so undercover about the whole thing. 

 

To answer the question that you asked a few comments back but I didn't see; there's multiple examples of alphas and betas that have had their price low, its called testing. Determining the best price so that the consumer feels as if he has got what he paid for rather than feeling like he got ripped off. 10 dollars for a virtual gun on Warframe is an hours worth of minimum wage in some places... I believe that if you're going to have transactions in a game that they remain priced reasonably. 

Edited September 10, 2014 by Slamyourjam

[ndantony]

Seeing as Guild Wars 2 has both an in game market just like Warframe called the Gem Shop AND a trading post which is more of a player-player market, I'd say yes you can trade currencies. Gold can be converted to gems and Gems can be converted to gold of course this whole system revolves around player economy and inflation just like real life. I don't feel as if "trading" should have any credit cost tied to it because as the word suggests its people trading items there should be no extra strings attached and the cost to trade legendary mods!? Absurd. 

....

Ok. So both GW2 and WF are about the same here with aspect of trading premium currency. Arguably, better trading system in GW2. And yes I have collected few legendary mods so I know how absurd the amount of cr that is required in WF. So yeah. I think WF should do away with crs. 

 

.....

I never once said that a beta is not equal to improvements or active development, its exactly what it is. A phase of development of the product. The whole point I've been arguing through this forum is that the name beta which is what Warframe is, an open beta should be shown on Steam and on the main website to raise better awareness to the consumers. Its essential that the consumer gets this information before he/she downloads the game. I mean you wouldn't buy a car or testdrive it if the dealer didn't say anything about its condition, right? Same thing for Warframe, while it is a free to play people may want to invest money in it and people are more likely to invest in a product that is through Alpha and Beta which I'm betting is the reason why Digital Extreme has been so undercover about the whole thing. 

.....

...but this part and with your analogies trouble me. You agree that WF is f2p. But then you compare that to buying a car?! Ok. Lets step back, regardless WF is f2p, people invest real money... so fair enough. So we need to make sure that players need to forewarned... because "beta" means players could lose their progress and money, right?! And then you go on and conclude that is the reason that DE "has been so undercover about the whole thing." Again, if you say yes, then hey I will not argue with you on that opinion. But seriously?! After, you have spent 200+ hrs with WF, and I assume you have also seen at least few Devstreams and witness how DE has treated their player-base, generally players would form better opinion about DE and WF than that. 

 

...

To answer the question that you asked a few comments back but I didn't see; there's multiple examples of alphas and betas that have had their price low, its called testing. Determining the best price so that the consumer feels as if he has got what he paid for rather than feeling like he got ripped off. 10 dollars for a virtual gun on Warframe is an hours worth of minimum wage in some places... I believe that if you're going to have transactions in a game that they remain priced reasonably. 

Ok. So if you have stated your opinion in the middle paragraph as such, I can see how you conclude with this statement. Because some games that were in beta, meaning as in testing, their items in the market were lower than when those games were released... and you continued, therefore, because WF is in beta, the prices should be lower... than what??? What parameter are you using to compare?? or maybe by saying "10 dollars for a virtual gun" is enough a self-validating statement, by contrasting the real currency for some non-real virtual item??

 

I'm not gonna even dispute the "10 dollars" figure nor why would you hold onto that to make your point, when you also agree that you could effortlessly getting it for free.  But here, for the sake of comparison, lets us use GW2's for market price comparison. You get about 8000 gems for $100, right?! But there is a sword that cost 5000 plus gems... should we both agree and say that "$60 dollars is absurd for some non-real virtual item"? Yes. I also have GW2, and I love it no less than WF.