Hey You, Let's Just Exchange A Few Words About Saryn Ok?

[Lvl99Gamer]

I rather like the Chlora Helmet.

 

I don't, it has this really derpy underbite and it looks really bad from behind and those ''earrings'' looks really out of place.

[Nayru]

Never ceases to amaze when people uniformly declare a skill that is essentially built in fever strike at worst and nearly two at best useless.

[LascarCapable]

Moved to the right section.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

That's uh, that's a lot of words.

[MadMoonDog]

If Saryn's powers, Venom, Contagion and Miasma, turned the enemies it killed into corrosive pools or poisonous clouds, that damaged and status proced enemies, would that help with her?

 

I don't play Saryn, but my brother pretty much always does. He... complains a lot. XD

[Rienz]

 

Contagion is unsatisfactory compared to Volt's Speed, Loki's Invisibility, Ash's Smokescreen, and Valkyr's Warcry.

 

Molt is decent, but can do more, particularly to interact with the currently defective Venom. As of now, players generally choose between Molt for a pseudo-defense offensive ability with an energy cost, or a more standard defense mod like Steel Fiber, or Vigor.

 

Venom doesn't proc appreciably unless using Continuity, Constitution, and near-maxed Narrow Minded, as shown in this post with three videos here. Combine that with how many players find Venom extremely difficult to spread because most players don't use shotguns or Phage, and that's a major problem. Not even

herself could spread Venom--she failed 100% of all her attempts.

 

Miasma is only good when modded for minimum duration, which trashes her other three abilities in the process, which isn't so bad as of now considering her other three abilities weren't so good in the first place. That said, it is safe to say that all four of Saryn's abilities could use a rework.

 

Agreed. As I said Contagion is on the level of uselessness comparable to Excals Super Jump.

 

Well as a second power I feel like Molt does enough. I feel like its in a decent place between defensive and medium level offensive power. Its the only proc removal available aside from Iron skin so it is quite useful. Also using it as a shield/cover can be quite handy.

 

Well if thats the case then I agree Venom needs an overhaul. I tend to not put too much focus on the spreading and have been using an amprex with my Saryn which tends to chain everywhere hitting everything.

 

Well I only use Molt and Venom besides Miasma. Leaving aside Venom as I said that I don't really rely on it at all, Molt functions very well for me and suits my playstyle. It only lasts for 10 seconds, half the time of its actual duration but since I run max efficiency the trade off is well worth it. Also I tend to use it more offensively, taking damage to get energy with rage using molt, then taking cover behind it until rejuvination recovers my hp and then picking off the enemies or letting them blow up the Molt or waiting the remaining seconds for it to end and deal aoe damage.

 

However I understand this might not be the case for everyone. But that does not warrant saying that Miasma is only good when modded for minimum duration. It gets its maximum potential through modding for mimimum duration but its still a very good skill overall providing aoe damage and stun that is more than enough for most missions.

 

That argument reminds me of some players claiming that Overextended is a must have mod for Nekros otherwise Desecrate is useless but that nerfs his other abilities. Clearly these type of players want to have their cake and eat it too. A simple maxed Stretch mod is more than enough on him.

(To clarify this is just an example I'm well aware that Nekros needs buffing but that is a discussion for another thread)

 

More to the point while yes its true that Miasma has a quirky mechanic that makes it better with reduced duration that does not mean that a normal Misama without reduced duration is useless.

 

When modding warframes especially with corrupted mods you have to make sacrifices. Ask Vey Hek if you don't understand what that means.

 

I agree that Contagion and perhaps Venom need a rework but her other two abilities seem to do their job fine.

[Ryouhi]

Venom is far from useless though - being able to spread viral procs around large enemy groups is extremely strong, effectively halving a crowds hp.

I only wished the spores were easier to pop, that's pretty much the only thing that irks me about this skill.

 

Molt too is a pretty useful skill.

It's cheap, has no cast animation, draws enemy aggro, removes status effects from yourself and deals some damage to surrounding enemies.

It really is a nice skill.

 

Contagion.. is decent - but you would need to actually build around this skill to make it work better.

 

 

The fleeting expertise thing is weird, i give you that.

Like you said, it's nice to get that double oomph out of this mod, but it would be nice if duration actually affected miasma positively, then it would be easier to use molt and contagion since they need that extra duration

 

 

 

I might be a little biased, since Saryn is one of my absolute favorite Frames - but seriously, i don't see why everyone thinks she's bad.

Venom can cut higher level enemy crowds' HP in half, olt can save your butt or create a diversion and miasma just about melts and stuns everything.

I've got a Contagion build too that works decently, but it's pretty niche

[Monolake]

 

I might be a little biased, since Saryn is one of my absolute favorite Frames - but seriously, i don't see why everyone thinks she's bad.

Venom can cut higher level enemy crowds' HP in half, olt can save your butt or create a diversion and miasma just about melts and stuns everything.

I've got a Contagion build too that works decently, but it's pretty niche

Because most players have no idea how most frames work, they only play selected few.

[Ryouhi]

Because most players have no idea how most frames work, they only play selected few.

Well, the thing with fleeting expertise is pretty weird, i know i got confused figuring all that out

 

maybe they should just change it to be the other way around, so that extra duration equals higher damage or maybe even increased stun duration.

Or another thread suggested that it works like Novas 'new' MP, as in duration increases range as the miasma slowly spreads out.

sounded interesting too and would also make miasma synergize better with venom, molt and contagion

[MechaKnight]

...

 

Well I only use Molt and Venom besides Miasma. Leaving aside Venom as I said that I don't really rely on it at all, Molt functions very well for me and suits my playstyle. It only lasts for 10 seconds, half the time of its actual duration but since I run max efficiency the trade off is well worth it. Also I tend to use it more offensively, taking damage to get energy with rage using molt, then taking cover behind it until rejuvination recovers my hp and then picking off the enemies or letting them blow up the Molt or waiting the remaining seconds for it to end and deal aoe damage.

 

However I understand this might not be the case for everyone. But that does not warrant saying that Miasma is only good when modded for minimum duration. It gets its maximum potential through modding for mimimum duration but its still a very good skill overall providing aoe damage and stun that is more than enough for most missions.

 

...

 

More to the point while yes its true that Miasma has a quirky mechanic that makes it better with reduced duration that does not mean that a normal Misama without reduced duration is useless.

 

When modding warframes especially with corrupted mods you have to make sacrifices. Ask Vey Hek if you don't understand what that means.

 

I agree that Contagion and perhaps Venom need a rework but her other two abilities seem to do their job fine.

 

 

Venom is far from useless though - being able to spread viral procs around large enemy groups is extremely strong, effectively halving a crowds hp.

I only wished the spores were easier to pop, that's pretty much the only thing that irks me about this skill.

 

Molt too is a pretty useful skill.

It's cheap, has no cast animation, draws enemy aggro, removes status effects from yourself and deals some damage to surrounding enemies.

It really is a nice skill.

 

Contagion.. is decent - but you would need to actually build around this skill to make it work better.

 

 

The fleeting expertise thing is weird, i give you that.

Like you said, it's nice to get that double oomph out of this mod, but it would be nice if duration actually affected miasma positively, then it would be easier to use molt and contagion since they need that extra duration

 

 

I might be a little biased, since Saryn is one of my absolute favorite Frames - but seriously, i don't see why everyone thinks she's bad.

Venom can cut higher level enemy crowds' HP in half, olt can save your butt or create a diversion and miasma just about melts and stuns everything.

I've got a Contagion build too that works decently, but it's pretty niche

 

 

Venom spread is one problem, but Venom's status chance per second is another problem. These videos suggest Venom's status chance per tick are considerably low, especially considering the innate rate of fire and status chance of guns now, and even moreso when considering the release of all four status event mods. It can proc status, but the rate at which it does is too low to bother modding for it. Even with increased duration the effect is lackluster, you'll definitely use more than one duration mod.

 

Also as for Molt,

shows that it doesn't grab enemy attention as well as it should. Enemies frequently ignore the Molt. Loki's Decoy works better because the firing of its gun helps considerably to draw attention to it. The explosive property of Molt is also affected by line of sight similarly to yesterday's radial blind nerf. Yes, if Molt is too close to a single enemy it can affect only one enemy in bizzare situations.

 

Miasma can be used without negative duration, but it also decreases in effectiveness when additional duration is applied to the ability. Duration is a running theme in all her abilities, so this one odd ability makes it difficult to choose between itself and the other three. However, considering ability #1 is inefficient to generate procs for the team without considerable duration, ability #2 is a defense ability that does better offensively than defensively, and ability #3 isn't worth it, that's why most players choose to go all-in with her #4 ability.

 

Saryn is not too terrible of a warframe, but best use is limited to one ability that destroys the other three. I've already listed the faults above. If those were remedied maybe these abilities would see more frequent usage.

[RiouHotaru]

The only fix Contagion needs is for it to be a low-energy toggle.  With proper modding it hits a bonus almost double that of any toxic damage mod (close to 179% or so?), but it having a cast and being on a duration makes it situational at best, since if you cast and then don't make use of it, you've wasted your energy.  Giving a player wider control over it's application would instantly improve the ability several times over.

 

That's literally all you need to do.

[RiouHotaru]

Never ceases to amaze when people uniformly declare a skill that is essentially built in fever strike at worst and nearly two at best useless.

This.  This this this this this.

 

Contagion is hardly useless.  I'd consider Venom more useless before considering Contagion.

[MechaKnight]

Contagion is hardly useless.  I'd consider Venom more useless before considering Contagion.

Contagion is considered useless because Volt's Speed, Loki's Invisibility, Ash's Smokescreen, and Valkyr's Warcry all vastly outperform it. Contagion is the only melee ability in thre game without protection or support effects. It needs an overhaul so people feel safe while using it, and it feels more effective. As of currently, it's not safe, not powerful, and the toxic element mixes with the ones on your melee weapon so it tends to ruin player elemental combinations.

Edited September 12, 2014 by MechaKnight

[RiouHotaru]

Contagion is considered useless because Volt's Speed, Loki's Invisibility, Ash's Smokescreen, and Valkyr's Warcry all vastly outperform it. Contagion is the only melee ability in thre game without protection or support effects. It needs an overhaul so people feel safe while using it, and it feels more effective. As of currently, it's not safe, not powerful, and the toxic element mixes with the ones on your melee weapon so it tends to ruin player elemental combinations.

Feel "safe" using it?  You need to cast it BEFORE you get into a major encounter.  Ash's Smokescreen and Valkyr's Warcry are better used when knee-deep in your enemy.  And both Speed and Invis have incredibly low cast times.  Contagion is not designed to be cast while you're in the thick of combat, you cast it, and THEN wade into your enemies.

 

As for the mixing, Contagion's damage gets LAST priority on your weapon, because it adds an "innate" toxic damage to the weapon.  So the only loadouts that'll get a "mix" are those with a leftover element, like Corrosive/Cold.

[Lvl99Gamer]

This.  This this this this this.

 

Contagion is hardly useless.  I'd consider Venom more useless before considering Contagion.

 

The problem is that its a fever strike that you need to equip on your warframe. Which means a slot which you COULD use for something useful.

[MechaKnight]

Feel "safe" using it?  You need to cast it BEFORE you get into a major encounter.  Ash's Smokescreen and Valkyr's Warcry are better used when knee-deep in your enemy.  And both Speed and Invis have incredibly low cast times.  Contagion is not designed to be cast while you're in the thick of combat, you cast it, and THEN wade into your enemies.

If you've ever been in a high-tier survival, you would never cast Invisibility or Smokescreen in the midst of a crowd of enemies, you should know that. But I wasn't even talking about the cast time, I was talking about what happens afterwards. Invisibility and Smokescreen make the user invisible, so it's very good protection because no enemy will ever attack you as you use melee. Warcry stats without mods: +50% attack speed, +50% armor for yourself and teammates within range, -30% enemy speed within range. That's a lot of protection for yourself and the team. As for Speed, it has no cast animation, and gives 50% additional speed for movement and melee attacks.

 

The stealth abilities give 200% stealth multiplier, the closest mod to compare is the finisher damage mod. The other two abilities I mentioned are mirrored in the Fury mod, but that mod only gives 30% attack speed as oppossed to these abilities' 50%, which is an increase of 66%. What does Contagion do? 75% toxin damage, no secondary perks at all. Fever Strike gives 90% additional toxin damage. So not only is the ability worse than the melee mod itself at base, but it has no secondary perks, and takes up a warframe slot you can use for something more worthwhile than a rank 4 Fever Strike.

[shaun10656]

i like her helms I love everything about her just her first ability needs to spread byitself or somthing

[Vorsches]

Feel "safe" using it?  You need to cast it BEFORE you get into a major encounter.  Ash's Smokescreen and Valkyr's Warcry are better used when knee-deep in your enemy.  And both Speed and Invis have incredibly low cast times.  Contagion is not designed to be cast while you're in the thick of combat, you cast it, and THEN wade into your enemies.

 

As for the mixing, Contagion's damage gets LAST priority on your weapon, because it adds an "innate" toxic damage to the weapon.  So the only loadouts that'll get a "mix" are those with a leftover element, like Corrosive/Cold.

So it wouldn't just add to the corrosive damage? But tacks on a viral by mixing with cold?

[MechaKnight]

So it wouldn't just add to the corrosive damage? But tacks on a viral by mixing with cold?

It varies. Essentially it's last in priority so if you had a mixed element and a free unmixed pure one leftover on your weapon, the toxin element would mix with that. However, weapon modding for weapons that come with innate combination element seem to only show 2 elements even if you modded your weapon to have an extra third. In a scenario where you already have two combination elements on your weapon, such as Radiation and Viral, Venom may add toxin and the other one will get dropped from ever being able to proc status effects, or so it seems in stats when modding.

[RiouHotaru]

If you've ever been in a high-tier survival, you would never cast Invisibility or Smokescreen in the midst of a crowd of enemies, you should know that. But I wasn't even talking about the cast time, I was talking about what happens afterwards. Invisibility and Smokescreen make the user invisible, so it's very good protection because no enemy will ever attack you as you use melee. Warcry stats without mods: +50% attack speed, +50% armor for yourself and teammates within range, -30% enemy speed within range. That's a lot of protection for yourself and the team. As for Speed, it has no cast animation, and gives 50% additional speed for movement and melee attacks.

 

The stealth abilities give 200% stealth multiplier, the closest mod to compare is the finisher damage mod. The other two abilities I mentioned are mirrored in the Fury mod, but that mod only gives 30% attack speed as oppossed to these abilities' 50%, which is an increase of 66%. What does Contagion do? 75% toxin damage, no secondary perks at all. Fever Strike gives 90% additional toxin damage. So not only is the ability worse than the melee mod itself at base, but it has no secondary perks, and takes up a warframe slot you can use for something more worthwhile than a rank 4 Fever Strike.

75%?

 

Are you even counting power strength?  You do know with a max Blind Rage + Intensify, you reach 179% bonus damage, almost double that of Fever Strike.  Double.  Even if you just take just take Blind Rage it'll still be well over 100%  So yeah.

[MechaKnight]

75%?

 

Are you even counting power strength?  You do know with a max Blind Rage + Intensify, you reach 179% bonus damage, almost double that of Fever Strike.  Double.  Even if you just take just take Blind Rage it'll still be well over 100%  So yeah.

I knew you'd say that. If we're counting power strength mods, let's count the mods that strengthen melee weapons. Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike cover both warframe ability power strength mods. But we can also make our weapons stronger using Killing Blow, Fury, all 8 elemental mods, four physical damage mods, a few nightmare mods, and a few more channeling mods. Meanwhile a maxed Blind Rage is usually not used by players for efficiency sake, at which point you'd be at -25% efficiency using Streamline. If you want to use that build, you're using tons of energy, and if you want to use duration mods to increase the duration of Contagion, you're using tons of slots on your warframe. Yet you could do so much more with another warframe for so much less, and you can do so much more on your melee weapon.

 

Try Valkyr, Volt, Loki, Ash, and you'll see the difference, guarenteed.

Edited September 13, 2014 by MechaKnight

[Racter]

Only point of advice, Venom is amazing, use it on long stuff, Viral proc OP

[Arunafeltz]

Oh hello there Patchouli...

 

I think the Chlora helmet is lovely but that could just be me. So I'm afraid I don't feel you.

[RiouHotaru]

I knew you'd say that. If we're counting power strength mods, let's count the mods that strengthen melee weapons. Pressure Point, Spoiled Strike cover both warframe ability power strength mods. But we can also make our weapons stronger using Killing Blow, Fury, all 8 elemental mods, four physical damage mods, a few nightmare mods, and a few more channeling mods. Meanwhile a maxed Blind Rage is usually not used by players for efficiency sake, at which point you'd be at -25% efficiency using Streamline. If you want to use that build, you're using tons of energy, and if you want to use duration mods to increase the duration of Contagion, you're using tons of slots on your warframe. Yet you could do so much more with another warframe for so much less, and you can do so much more on your melee weapon.

 

Try Valkyr, Volt, Loki, Ash, and you'll see the difference, guarenteed.

I have actually, of all the alternate frames you've mentioned, the only one I haven't used is Loki.  So I'm very much aware of what they can, or can't do.

 

But Blind Rage only negatively effects efficiency, and Fleeting Expertise + Streamline easily solves that problem.  Of course, this does negatively effect duration, but not by much.  Let's say we even leave out Blind Rage and put in just Intensify, that's +30%, which if it's additive, brings it up to 108% bonus damage.  Which is still better than Fever Strike by 18%.  Even if it's multiplicative, it's still over 90%.  And honestly, building for negative duration with Saryn isn't the only effective build.

 

Contrary to popular belief, a high duration build is actually useful on her, it just means you don't get massive damage spikes, and Miasma turns into a CC rather than a high-damage-over-time nuke.

 

It STILL makes Contagion more useful than Venom due to the difficulty of spreading the Venom spores, and the relatively low chance of Viral's proc.  As I said, all they have to do is make Contagion a toggle-power with a low energy activation/cost-per-second, with the same effect as usual, and it becomes an infinitely more useful power.  But it should NOT be dismissed as is.

[Azawarau]

+1 for the onizuka face

 

Nostalgia