Rng Is Rng, Or Something Horribly Wrong With Void Drops? O_O

[Dunq]

I'd just like to share my experience while farming for nyx.

 

2nd tower IV defense, wave 15, BP.

3 Tower II mobile defense, helmet.

132 Tower III exterminate, no chassis

35 Tower IV capture, systems.

[Nitresco]

~snip~

Yes, I've seen worse. No, that doesn't mean this is excusable.

[Shezo]

Have any of you folks played any sort of loot game before?

Because it seems like none of you folks have experienced something like this.

This is hardly as bad as most games that have a loot system.

 

and have you played any ?

Path of exile has a lot of depth for loot system -- you always getting something, be it currency, items for vendor recipes or just for sale.

Diablo 3:Ros has loot tailored towards you, it has proper crafting, gambling, etc.

Same goes to Torchlight and some other arpgs.

The bottom line is this -- you always get something one way or another.

 

In WF you get tons of useless loot that you may or may not sell on the market to buy stuff from the market and that's it.

And you know what other games tried this kind of paradigm ? Diablo 3 at launch and got a lot of flak for it, so much of it, that they have even removed auction house.

[dashashou]

they do this every time - for about  the frist 2  week the rng wall is  sky high

 

do your self a favor and don't waste your keys till 2 weeks later

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

You know, you could always bot.

[Mak_Gohae]

Yes, I've seen worse. No, that doesn't mean this is excusable.

 

It's nowhere near the bottom, nowhere as bad as you folks are making it seem.

 

 

Path of exile has a lot of depth for loot system -- you always getting something, be it currency, items for vendor recipes or just for sale.

 

....like in warframe with creds, mats, mods, and bps?

 

Diablo 3:Ros has loot tailored towards you, it has proper crafting, gambling, etc.

Same goes to Torchlight and some other arpgs.

 

Everything is tailored toward you in this game because you can use everything.

 

 

The bottom line is this -- you always get something one way or another.

 

Like in this game.

 

In WF you get tons of useless loot that you may or may not sell on the market to buy stuff from the market and that's it.

And you know what other games tried this kind of paradigm ? Diablo 3 at launch and got a lot of flak for it, so much of it, that they have even removed auction house.

 

Everything you used as examples in other games this game has.

The reason i dont care about the price of the DNA dog needles is because i am farming for void BPs and the void always gives you good cred.

And even if i dont get the bp i want i can end up buying from another players from the sale of the bps i got that i dont need.

 

All these complaining is about one thing alone, it's about new items that were release that people want now.

You cannot wait to get them and you do not even want to anything else to help you get it.

[Nitresco]

It's nowhere near the bottom, nowhere as bad as you folks are making it seem.

...

Nowhere as bad? Counting today, I've worked close to 35 hours getting THIS SINGLE PART. I see zero reason why it should be this bad.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Nitresco

[Tyrarl]

...

Nowhere as bad? Counting today, I've worked close to 35 hours getting THIS SINGLE PART. I see zero reason why it should be this bad.

 

To incentivize Prime Access to trade real money for extremely rare digital goods. I can't think of any reason to have such steep drop percentages other than to push platinum sales and Prime Access. Trading is a bandaid fix, mostly because it relies either on more RNG or purchasing platinum to purchase the parts from the players.

 

That model doesn't work well for other games, if Diablo 3 is any indicator. And it's certainly telling that many YouTubers such as the Extra Credits crew and others are quick to criticize (and offer alternative models as suggestions) with regards to these kinds of FTP models.

 

Is Warframe one of the worst offenders on the market? No. I can think of a ton of worse models, like Dungeons and Dragons Online where almost all of the content cannot be accessed without grinding for Turbine Points to buy it (which can take a full time job to earn even a single adventure pack). It doesn't mean Warframe's can't be improved.

[Grulos]

Leaving my thread here, loads of very good replies in there. CBA to post them all, so here's the link:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/315500-im-sick-of-rng-and-drop-table-dilutes/

 

 

 

Also, not only void drops should be revised.

Mod drops are as bad as the void. Ability mods dilute the pool, rare enemies drop rare stances and some drop rates are still 0,55%.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Grulos

[Nitresco]

To incentivize Prime Access to trade real money for extremely rare digital goods.

I don't know about others, but when I spend over 30 hours getting a single part and I still don't obtain it, I don't feel particularly fond of handing DE any more of my money.

[Davoodoo]

they do this every time - for about  the frist 2  week the rng wall is  sky high

 

do your self a favor and don't waste your keys till 2 weeks later

Its not exactly that they change drop rates after 2 weeks.

 

After 2 weeks everyone who actually cared about these primes grinded their way through(or given up), wasted alot of time and nerves and probably dont want to hear about these drops anymore. 

They just left it behind and you cant blame them, reliving same horror for 2490428042903th time isnt healthy relaxing or even fun.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Davoodoo

[CityOfTrees]

Yesterday I did a T4EX and got a bo handle.

 

Today I did a T4EX and got a bo handle.

 

I'm doing a T4EX tomorrow.

[Mak_Gohae]

...

Nowhere as bad? Counting today, I've worked close to 35 hours getting THIS SINGLE PART. I see zero reason why it should be this bad.

 

If you think there is zero reason you dont have any sort of understanding and the concepts that F2P games work under.

Hek, one day of gameplay and still not getting one item is nothing in certain P2P game.

[Nitresco]

If you think there is zero reason you dont have any sort of understanding and the concepts that F2P games work under.

Hek, one day of gameplay and still not getting one item is nothing in certain P2P game.

I do have an understanding of these games work, and I have stated before, specifically in this thread, that just because another game has an even worse payoff rate for grinding, it doesn't mean this game should be made to emulate that game's system.

 

Additionally, this is not just "one day of gameplay". This is close to an entire week's worth of constant effort. Counting the effort I have put into it today, I have spent close to 40 hours attempting to obtain this item, 35 or so of it being focused on this single handle. I have still not obtained it.

 

I have no personal problem with drop rates being low, but there's a point where it becomes a bit too much.

[AnatharsWrath]

ugh...after doing 26 T3-Mdefs and not getting scindo blade i want to murder something.

 

its bad enough it took me 24 t4-def to get nyx BP

[Dreykan]

You guys know what bothers me the most? All the effort put in creating this items, since concept art to coding and animation, and a lot of people will never be able to appreciate it because is hidding below hours and hours of riddiculous grinding and frustration. (Or paying)

 

Is like having a very beautyful painting in a free and open gallery, in wich people either pay to see it (wich a very few will do, because that's just not fun, lets be honest), or you have people run a friggin decathlon every time to achieve certain score, and when you hit first place for the third time, (and after waiting for three days, because manglement) you get to see the painting. 

 

It's pretty ridiculous IMHO. 

 

Warframe used to have solved this issue, because hey, if you wanted that uber super ultra good loking weapon that weren't-aquirable-by-any-other-mean-than-playing-the-game, you could spent some hours grinding, having fun with friends, and actually getting whatever you were looking for. 

 

When more and more items were introduced, it was more difficult, but there was a point where you could still obtain what you wanted. After that (I don't remember exactly when it was), everything became plain frustrating. After that, I just gave up with farming anything in the void.

 

Now, with the introduction of Prime Acces, is as it follows: Or you either buy it, or go cry in a corner, feeling the unlukiest Tenno in the whole galaxy, until the next Prime Access

 

I know, developers have to eat, this game is directed to keep a business going, and they need money. But there're many many ways to do this (which have been pointed out by this community and others, thousands of times) whitout trickery like RNG and grinding.

 

The quest to obtain Mirage was a huge step forward. New frame, with a brand new game system, and a bit of lore. And it wasn't particulary difficult to obtain, just 5 runs with a good and organized squad and off you go. 

I was somewhat hoping to see Nyx Prime introduced in somethings along the line, but that just didin't happen.

 

At the end of the day, I don't feel angry because i don't have what I want after I spent many hours to obtain it, I just feel bad because I wont be able to enjoy the effort put by a lot of people in the new contet, just because there's a mathematical wall blocking it. It's not fair for them, nor for us. 

 

Sorry for bad grammar and such. English is not my native languague, and it's 1.45 am here.

[Tyrarl]

 

The quest to obtain Mirage was a huge step forward. New frame, with a brand new game system, and a bit of lore. And it wasn't particulary difficult to obtain, just 5 runs with a good and organized squad and off you go. 

I was somewhat hoping to see Nyx Prime introduced in somethings along the line, but that just didin't happen.

 

At the end of the day, I don't feel angry because i don't have what I want after I spent many hours to obtain it, I just feel bad because I wont be able to enjoy the effort put by a lot of people in the new contet, just because there's a mathematical wall blocking it. It's not fair for them, nor for us. 

 

Sorry for bad grammar and such. English is not my native languague, and it's 1.45 am here.

 

This here is actually a fantastic point. I'm still waiting on Hydroid because grinding RNG for different Beacons which are from a rare enemy that may or may not spawn over the course of most missions to fight a rather difficult boss that takes around 20-30 minutes to finish after spending 1 hour building to RNG for 1 of 3 pieces.... ugh.

 

And then to find that the Mirage quest was not only easy, but fun and had NO RNG to it was so damn glorious.

 

This is really what we need more of in the game. Less RNG, but a goal to work towards. RNG itself isn't rewarding. You can see gaming pundits online talking about how terrible as a "reward" system it really is, but they'll often talk about the benefits of reward systems that award currency (though I hate that personally) or that have a clearly definable and attainable goal that can be achieved through effort.

 

And that's the key point. RNG is NOT effort. Running a hundred T1 Exterminates just to see a single Scindo Prime part drop is not effort. It's effortless, because it's not a challenge. It merely requires a large time investment.

 

Effort would be completing objectives that actually challenge the player. WoW's "Challenge Modes" are a fantastic example of that, as are TBC-Era Heroics. THOSE require effort to complete, and honestly, I don't believe anything in Warframe takes effort. But it sure takes a lot of time and RNG, and that is not rewarding. It leaves a sour taste in players' mouths and makes the game wholly less satisfying and fun.

[NickBoay]

well idk bout all that RNG stuff, i bet there is certain algoritmes(however spelled) involved because when i ran a certain mission 5 times under 10 minutes i ended up with 5x BO PRIME BLUEPRINT in  fckin row, i dont mind RNG but dont gimme the same sheit DE cuz rlly... thats not cool

 

( doing 5 matches without rushing them gives different rewards so if this is your way of punishing players who are faster then others thanks alot, and if this is the case change it, its bad enough that RNG rewards you certain rewards double, lets say farm nekros get 3x helmet in a row, so our response to that EXACT mechanisme is that we have to rush the mission to be effective in farming, i find myself rushing these missions and thinking to myself "bleh" i wouldnt mind taking my bow out and making some headshots, but then the factor of time cross my mind and how unlikely a drop is gonna be so i rush rush rush rush as fast i can, its not the players ruining the game by running trough it, its the way its setup FORCING the players to run trough to get any of the rewards at all.)

Edited September 29, 2014 by NickBoay

[TruthSetAblaze]

OR a low percentage of people are getting the parts because they have a low chance to drop. Figure that out, what blasphemy on DE's part.

Edited September 29, 2014 by TruthSetAblaze

[Institute-Marksman]

RNG sucks, no matter how it is implemented. Gives you either too much or nothing at all, but never the right amount.

[Nitresco]

~snip~

I agree. This grindwall is completely unneeded, as there's already plenty of incentive to buy prime packs.

 

Also, your English is fine. Grammar's above-average. Your spelling on a few words just needs improvement.

[SableSonata]

Hey guys, anyone else remember a while ago when they said that they had made all the prime parts equal rarity? Those were some fun times. For like, a couple weeks before they changed the tables again and encrypted the drop rates. Clearly people were having too much fun.

 

 

The best part about the void is that every single update dilutes the tables more, and makes items more expensive to trade for, which means DE gets more money, whether from people trading (plat has to come from somewhere), or from people just buying into prime access out of frustration.

 

DE won't fix the Void drop tables because the worse the tables are, the more money they make. I suspect that's also why they spend pretty much zero effort on the void; because the less fun the void is, the more likely people are to just buy the primes and play the more-fun parts of the game.

[Morcant101]

Generally I don't complain too much on forums but...

Since its release and after much farming... I still don't have a reaper prime blade. finally dropped the reaper prime blade today.

 

I like the game generally, but they do need to adjust the drop table to be a bit more reasonable. I don't mind a bit of farming, but having half of all void missions I run give me keys I have or don't need is getting rather tedious... actually it is asinine.

 

Sorry needed to vent there.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Morcant101

[Tyrarl]

DE won't fix the Void drop tables because the worse the tables are, the more money they make. I suspect that's also why they spend pretty much zero effort on the void; because the less fun the void is, the more likely people are to just buy the primes and play the more-fun parts of the game.

 

But that's a problem. In the short term, yes it may provide more money and faster, but in the long term you're losing players because they either won't pay money at this time and leave because they're frustrated (and lost players is lost potential revenue), or because they grow bored of the grind and leave (and lost players is lost potential revenue).

 

I got sick of RNG shortly after the Mirage update and left for a good 4 months. That was 4 months of paycheques that I wasn't wringing out for additional platinum. I probably pay a good $15.99 a month on platinum. Yeah, I'm only one person, but imagine if it were more than just me who left because they got sick of the grind and stopped paying for platinum?

 

There needs to be a better long term solution for revenue that doesn't involve hitting people's wallets in cheap ways.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Tyrarl

[MrsUnreal]

i got nyx prime bp in one go in t4D 20 waves

 

I have played over 10 T4D missions, each 40+ waves and still nothing. Needless to say I have given up.

 

I don't mind grinding and I rarely buy gear but the drop tables are a problem and are the source of a lot of fustration.