Concerning Narrative

[Sitchrea]

I love Warframe. It is my go-to game for when I am tired after a long day, and I have sunk a significant wad of cash into it since first enlisting with the Tenno during U7. The combat is very satisfying and the aesthetic is one of the most recognizable I have ever seen. U14 brought with it an incredible menu system, giving us the Liset and our Tsundere Cephalon, Ordis. This, coupled with the incredible skyboxes (Which I hope to see more of) made me love this game more than I have loved any other game since Mass Effect 3.

 

However... Throughout my year-and-a-half of playing Warframe a problem has always been stored in the back of my mind; this quandry has been the issue of innocence in the universe.

 

Before I begin, I would like to inform the public that I am a writer of Science Fiction stories myself, and have had a fair bit of experience in story composition. I love Warframe and would love it even more if this issue could be addressed in even the slightest way.

 

Now, I have stated that my issue is of "Innocence" in the narrative - This is the element of a story (not a plot, a story) that all other elements made in the story's composition are reflected against.

 

Examples of narrative innocence include:

 

- Colonial citizens in the Mass Effect series, going about their daily lives wanting nothing to do with Cerberus, the Citadel, etc.

 

- Primrose Everdeen and the inhabitants of District 12 in the Hunger Games series, wishing only to shy away from the government of Panem to preserve their safety.

 

- Lucy Manette in Charles $&*^ens' A Tale of Two Cities, desiring to live in peace with her husband despite the horrors of the French revolution.

 

Notice a reoccurring device in all of these characters: the want of peace, the abjection of conflict, and the concerned yet aloof attention they show to all parties in the story. They wish only to be left alone to go about the things they have always done, and to do so in peace. Not only is this sensical for a real, normal human to do, it is also natural, as stated in the American Declaration of Independence: "...Men are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

 

These characters are crucial in a story - they can be either stagnant or dynamic, but are always the background to the scene a story shows, sometimes even woven into the plot itself. These elements are the true neutral factors in a story, allowing the reader, observer, or (in Warframe's case) the player to judge all other elements (Reapers/Cerberus, Panem/District 13, England/France, Grineer/Corpus/Tenno) against, determining for themselves which to be the good and bad.

 

Now this is essential for making plot twists - having the reader's predispositions be shaken by a sudden change in their perspective. This predisposition was created by their observing the elements of a story against the neutral element, and choosing their side. With careful planning, the composer of the story can guide a reader to believing something completely wrong, yet still following it. (I.E. District 13's philosophy of oppression in The Hunger Games, England's poverty over France's Anarchy in A Tale of Two Cities, etc.)

 

As for Warframe... Let us list the story elements presented to us with three defining adjectives each:

 

Grineer: Oppressive, Malevolent, Empirical.

 

Corpus: Greedy, Manipulative, Hyper-Capitalist.

 

Tenno: Guided, Powerful, Amnesiac.

 

Infested: All-Consuming, Intelligent, Malicious.

 

Orokin: Ancient, Mysterious, Precursors.

 

Red Veil: Assumed to be Freedom-Fighters, Underpowered, Outgunned

 

Arbiters: (Yet to be seen)

 

These are our factions. Which of them seem to fit the role of innocent bystanders? It is easy to see that none of them are without blame.

 

Now, there is the supposed Civilian population of the Origin system that is mentioned in the Tutorial Quest-line. In this mission, the Tenno arrives at an asteroid mining colony to find that the Grineer have slaughtered the civilian population there for harboring technology/information which the civilians themselves did not know the significance of.

 

^This is what needs to be seen. This is what the game needs more of. After this simple event, the player now has a REASON to fight the Grineer. ^

 

A lot of this comes down to the difference between Active and Passive Voice. To put it simply, Passive Voice tells the reader something, but does not show him. Whereas Active Voice directly shows something occurring. In story composition, Passive Voice is to be avoided with great priority, for it in essence communicates nothing to the reader.

 

A good example of Passive Voice in Story Composition can be seen in the 2011 game RAGE by id Software. In the story, the main antagonists of the games were not shown until halfway through the story, and, while certainly looking the part of villains, they were never actually seen doing anything bad. However through the player's journey he was incessantly bombarded by people explaining how terrible the antagonist was. As such, the player grew annoyed with both parties, and RAGE's reviews were left to suffer as such. The game's mechanics were solid, the explosions were pretty, and the player felt very powerful; but with no real REASON to fight the supposed antagonists, there was little the player wanted to do other than kill mutants all day, which most players found themselves doing.

 

Now let's apply this same critique to Warframe's Factions.

 

The Grineer have been said to be the awful terrible antagonists of Warframe; they have been said to melt themselves down to make more of themselves, they almost destroyed a hostile jungle to expand their civilization in the Cicero Crisis, and they impose harsh regulations on interplanetary travel. The only time we see them tested against a neutral backdrop is in one simple line by the Lotus in the aforementioned tutorial quest.

 

The Corpus have been said to sell themselves out for money and power, and consider warframes as valuable commodities to fill their pockets with $$$. Have they ever been tested against a neutral backdrop? At this point one could argue that this could be seen with the Gradivus Dilemma; However this event merely accentuated the problem of there being no innocence to be tested against. Yes, there were Tenno in Cryopods ready to be woken up, but they are still Tenno - the Faction that massacres both the Grineer and the Corpus. As such, they were not an innocent element, and with no innocent element, players were more inclined to listen to the sound of loot than their personal convictions.

 

And here we see the point of this problem, and it's resulting effects: With no innocent party, players have nothing to judge their predispositions of good and evil against. As such, they have no convictions and merely listen to the jingling sound of the loot in their target's pocket, which never serves in the favor of a game's longevity.

 

In conclusion, it is necessary for Warframe to have an innocent party in order to truely have an immersive story. DESteve has said during Devstreams that he wants no "Boy with a teddy bear" character, and I am by no means implying that this is a crucial element. The element of innocence can be anything, so long as it creates a backdrop for the player to form the dispositions against.

 

TL;DR:

it is necessary for Warframe to have an innocent party in order to truely have an immersive story. DESteve has said during Devstreams that he wants no "Boy with a teddy bear" character, and I am by no means implying that this is a crucial element. The element of innocence can be anything, so long as it creates a backdrop for the player to form the dispositions against.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Sitchrea

[Zendd]

Exactly!

[RoboDoge]

I would still use Miasma on bystanders. More to kill is always nice to have.

[SuperTechmarine]

As a novice writer myself, I applaud this thread.

 

 

On a related note, the Stalker also needs some serious characterization, we barely know the guy and we're farming him to Hate and back.

 

A quest on him, seeing him dish out justice to the Corpus and Grineer, him commanding the Corrupted or the Infested to dish out said justice would be badass to see and very indicative of his character, in the former, his sense of justice and honor applies to everyone equally, and the latter tells us that he's pragmatic and willing to do anything to install order in the Solar System.

 

Or hell, make a new NPC, someone we'll trust and love, who'll guide us through our journey, preferably, he'd be voiced by BRIAN BLESSED, eventually he'll supplant the Lotus in our hearts, and BOOM! The reveal, he was the Stalker all along and was just making you doubt and betray the Lotus.

Edited October 12, 2014 by SuperTechmarine

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Fantastic topic and explanations.

 

I find that the small tidbits of story, when I choose to listen to them, make my overall experience far more satisfying.

 

As much as I would love to leave this topic in GD because of the traffic it would garner, it belongs more in a feedback category.

Hopefully readers aren't turned from your long explanation.

 

Moved to more appropriate section.

[hijinks_the_turtle]

I do agree, it's rather suspicious that Lotus just tells us all this.  Me being cynical, and a writer of sorts, hearing this just makes me raise a skeptical eyebrow.  I mean, from my PoV they all are just regular guards and crewmen who are trapped in a cage they don't want to be in once they realize we're on their ship.  Hell, the Tenno themselves look like the baddies to me with all the destruction and stealing we do.  I'd truly like to see something that shows how the Grineer are evil, or how the Corpus are shady penny splitters.

[Sitchrea]

Fantastic topic and explanations.

 

I find that the small tidbits of story, when I choose to listen to them, make my overall experience far more satisfying.

 

As much as I would love to leave this topic in GD because of the traffic it would garner, it belongs more in a feedback category.

Hopefully readers aren't turned from your long explanation.

 

Moved to more appropriate section.

Daw, thanx and kk.

 

I hope to shed some light on how regular story writing is done, and I hope to hear from DE soon as to how they plan on expanding their extremely unique universe!

[ElHefe]

(edited) ... It is my go-to game ... combat is very satisfying and the aesthetic is one of the most recognizable

 

However... this quandry has been the issue of innocence

- This is the element of a story (not a plot, a story) that all other elements made in the story's composition are reflected against.

 

As for Warframe... Let us list the story elements presented to us with three defining adjectives each:

Grineer: Oppressive, Malevolent, Empirical.

Corpus: Greedy, Manipulative, Hyper-Capitalist.

Tenno: Guided, Powerful, Amnesiac.

Infested: All-Consuming, Intelligent, Malicious.

Orokin: Ancient, Mysterious, Precursors.

Red Veil: Assumed to be Freedom-Fighters, Underpowered, Outgunned

Arbiters: (Yet to be seen)

 

... the player now has a REASON

 

A lot of this comes down to the difference between Active and Passive Voice

 

TL;DR:

it is necessary for Warframe to have an innocent party in order to truely have an immersive story

Very solid premise and well argued ... 1+

Excuse my extensive editing of a wonderful post in order to make a few additional observations

 

1. We share very similar motivations for playing Warframe despite its lack of giving an immersive, true RPG compunction to do so

To what extent Warfame is an intentional experiment in changing narrative style by allowing for much greater freedom of interpretation and thus wider range personal projection as a device to make video games more durable is unclear

Steve Sinclair has stated this to be so on several occasions in interviews and Devstreams

However, many in these forums are not convinced of this - that in fact there is no narrative because DE has not developed a story, either because of priorities on kinematics and cinematics or because a simple lack of interest

Given the relatively good responsiveness of DE to community feedback on cosmetics and mechanics, it is reasonable to expect that DE will be responsive to developing a more solid story - one that provides players a tangible reason for being invested

In Devstream 38, Steve Sinclair acknowledge the need for results with regards to a captivating story

 

2. We share the same level of concern for the reliance on passive voice narrative

The Lotus - a character that is a mystery itself - and The Codex have been the exclusive sources of information; very little is derived from interacting with NPCs because there is very little in the way of interacting

This restricted gameplay reinforces the belief that there is no story other than the endlessly repetitive conflict and combat

A major determinant in limited interaction with NPCs is that so far Tenno don't speak or communicate in any manner other than violent action

Many players want to keep the Tenno silent and faceless ...

However, this results in no humanity in the Tenno to relate to (except for vicarious experience)

For example, The Lotus speaks of a Code of Honor but the player is not given any lee way in exercising it other than through violence

We are not given the option of "live and let live"

Because the Tenno are so terribly one dimensional characters, the only way they are interesting is in superficial differences

Differences are trivialized to that of cosmetics - hence the "Cult of the Primes" sentiment amongst many players - or in leveling up abilities

 

3. I am less concerned about the lack of a moral reference point - the "innocence" as you put it - in Warframe

In many ways, this omission is very contemporary ... there is violent conflict all around the world but there is no side that is "good" and another which is "evil"

While moral relativism is a widely held view in modern times, paradoxically it is very difficult to incorporate this view into goal directed video games

Clear definitions of "good" and "evil" are much easier to convey

The only way "moral relativism" enters into gameplay is through the vicarious experience of being able to be "evil" with no real consequences

Whether this is intentional on the part of DE is as much of an unknown as is the general lack of a story

Perhaps the lack of an "innocent" party is nothing more than a simple consequence an incompletely developed story

Additionally, while new factions are yet to be introduced, there is nothing to suggest that they will function as your "innocent"

 

So, here is an alternative to the "innocent benchmark" - a group or character that is MALEABLE - one that can change or evolve, possibly even becoming "enlightened"

I would submit that the Tenno might fit that role

While the Tenno are all about violence, presently they do so only because they aren't allowed options

With the introduction of new factions, it may be possible to have different outcomes to gain "reputation" ... a merciless killer vs. a benign but effective operative

[Sitchrea]

-snip-

1: Could not agree more. As for me, I prefer cinematics and large setpieces for story-telling, but that might not be what every player wants. regardless, I would love for Warframe to have a tangible, believable, connectable story to be captivated by. I think it would extend the life of the game far beyond what regular content releases would do. However, I do not discount the need for this; Indeed an immersive story would theoretically would increase sales due to more people sticking around the game for the experience despite the "Grind."

 

2: I think what could benefit us a lot as players and as Tenno is DE convincing us to uphold the Tenno Code of Honor. Perhaps to do so they could perhaps:

 

      - lay out what the Tenno Code of Honor is very clearly, just as Ubisoft does in Assassin's Creed. "...We work in the dark to serve the light," is the key phrase that every player of AC2 remembers, and that phrase defined the player's actions throughout his adventure in the AC universe.

 

      - Give the Tenno a way of communicating. A member of the PS4 community I have been following is a professional Iconographer, and has in fact discovered that the Tenno communicate via body and energy art. He has deciphered that the designs written on Warframes are the actual Tenno language. Perhaps we could use this in World Hubs?

 

3: I agree with maleability, but on a larger scale. No person is ever the same throughout his entire life, and neither should our creations be static; they should live and breath as we do, for it is then that a reader/observer/player can truely feel as if the character is alive.

[ElHefe]

1: Could not agree more. As for me, I prefer cinematics and large setpieces for story-telling, but that might not be what every player wants. regardless, I would love for Warframe to have a tangible, believable, connectable story to be captivated by. I think it would extend the life of the game far beyond what regular content releases would do. However, I do not discount the need for this; Indeed an immersive story would theoretically would increase sales due to more people sticking around the game for the experience despite the "Grind."

 

2: I think what could benefit us a lot as players and as Tenno is DE convincing us to uphold the Tenno Code of Honor. Perhaps to do so they could perhaps:

 

      - lay out what the Tenno Code of Honor is very clearly, just as Ubisoft does in Assassin's Creed. "...We work in the dark to serve the light," is the key phrase that every player of AC2 remembers, and that phrase defined the player's actions throughout his adventure in the AC universe.

 

      - Give the Tenno a way of communicating. A member of the PS4 community I have been following is a professional Iconographer, and has in fact discovered that the Tenno communicate via body and energy art. He has deciphered that the designs written on Warframes are the actual Tenno language. Perhaps we could use this in World Hubs?

 

3: I agree with maleability, but on a larger scale. No person is ever the same throughout his entire life, and neither should our creations be static; they should live and breath as we do, for it is then that a reader/observer/player can truely feel as if the character is alive.

 

More and more players are answering the call made in the first point ... it is time that the community stops accepting the current state of "nonstory" and speak with one voice for one

 

I really like your second point about a clear declaration of principles for the Tenno based upon a Code of Honor

It must be followed with consequences of gameplay

 

Regarding you last point, I like the ambition of it and have suggested in other threads that the Tenno should be allowed to evolve as a "race" based upon gameplay decisions

Maybe one outcome is that you become the new "Lotus" - not a direct combatant but a strategist, a leader, a guide

There has been loads of speculation that the Tenno are incorporeal beings of Void energy ...

Maybe another outcome is that your character actually becomes a Nirvanic creature and you are allowed to explore the mysteries of The Void

Since players have different warframes, they could choose all the possible alternate paths to play out the alternate "endings"

 

[--Xalted-LuaGuard--]

Desert Skate = innocent bystander who are oppressed by the grineer.

[vaugahn]

We don't want to overdo the whole "innocents in need of rescuing" thing, but I agree we definitely need a sort of reference point to put all the Grineer/Corpus antics against. That would help us feel like we're actually in this universe, rather than playing a video game there. 

 

Maybe some city-type hubs? That could be a cool way to work something like this in.

[Sitchrea]

We don't want to overdo the whole "innocents in need of rescuing" thing, but I agree we definitely need a sort of reference point to put all the Grineer/Corpus antics against. That would help us feel like we're actually in this universe, rather than playing a video game there. 

 

Maybe some city-type hubs? That could be a cool way to work something like this in.

Yeah, every story needs a reference point.

[TisEric]

This is why we need a neutral civilian "Faction" .

Dump a few of these civilians around the outposts as like contractors or slaves or what not so we have things to do besides run to the finish line.

Also implement a morality or a merciful-ness gauge for extra rewards for helping civilians or a negative outcome for killing/ignoring the civilians.

Collateral damage takes off your "honor" rating so you lose favor with the lotus or any future factions.

[ElHefe]

This is why we need a neutral civilian "Faction" .

Dump a few of these civilians around the outposts as like contractors or slaves or what not so we have things to do besides run to the finish line.

Also implement a morality or a merciful-ness gauge for extra rewards for helping civilians or a negative outcome for killing/ignoring the civilians.

Collateral damage takes off your "honor" rating so you lose favor with the lotus or any future factions.

 

I am not at all opposed to this ...

BUT to reduce player decisional consequences to just "good Samaritan" seems unduly one dimensional

Meaningful consequences involve personal sacrifice - something with a real bite to it

Example:  choice is between saving innocent Colonists or collect a rare item

 

Just ANY stem play is not intrinsically better than none at all ... 

[TisEric]

I am not at all opposed to this ...

BUT to reduce player decisional consequences to just "good Samaritan" seems unduly one dimensional

Meaningful consequences involve personal sacrifice - something with a real bite to it

Example:  choice is between saving innocent Colonists or collect a rare item

 

Just ANY stem play is not intrinsically better than none at all ... 

 

That kind of system while more meaningful is ultimately wrong for warframe... 99/100 people will take the reward 100% of the time.

The only way to make people take sides in warframe is if the reward is equal on either decision.

The black and white morality system instead makes you choose rewards vs Reputation which might in the right circumstance be much more valuable to a player.

 

On the other hand some players might want to live the Sith path and just be d*icks just to prove they can.

Its a more compelling system for a game that revolves around loot.

 

Who knows maybe make several Tenno Clans based on good, neutral and bad reputation which gives you access to their style of weapons.

All factions will have the same weapon but with a different model/FX to show off their alignment. 

[Sitchrea]

That kind of system while more meaningful is ultimately wrong for warframe... 99/100 people will take the reward 100% of the time.

The only way to make people take sides in warframe is if the reward is equal on either decision.

The black and white morality system instead makes you choose rewards vs Reputation which might in the right circumstance be much more valuable to a player.

 

On the other hand some players might want to live the Sith path and just be d*icks just to prove they can.

Its a more compelling system for a game that revolves around loot.

 

Who knows maybe make several Tenno Clans based on good, neutral and bad reputation which gives you access to their style of weapons.

All factions will have the same weapon but with a different model/FX to show off their alignment. 

But one must ask themselves, "Why do players take the reward all of the time?"

 

My answer with credible speculation: "Because players have no greater reason to complete tasks other than for the loot."

 

The loot should be a reward, but no the reason we play. There are hundreds of games that one plays merely to get better loot.

 

Not to say that games can have both awesome story integration with the loot drops. the Borderlands series, anyone? Gun porn and incessant loot drops with an awesome story.

[ElHefe]

That kind of system while more meaningful is ultimately wrong for warframe... 99/100 people will take the reward 100% of the time.

The only way to make people take sides in warframe is if the reward is equal on either decision.

The black and white morality system instead makes you choose rewards vs Reputation which might in the right circumstance be much more valuable to a player.

 

On the other hand some players might want to live the Sith path and just be d*icks just to prove they can.

Its a more compelling system for a game that revolves around loot.

 

Who knows maybe make several Tenno Clans based on good, neutral and bad reputation which gives you access to their style of weapons.

All factions will have the same weapon but with a different model/FX to show off their alignment. 

 

Indubitably (to all of your points)

Your "black and white" is equivalent to my "bite" ...

For a game like Warframe, only stark moral choices work

Grey doesn't fit in at all well, largely because of the 1-dimensional character of the Tenno

True, a sizeable fraction of players would intentionally play the "dark side" just for kicks

 

BUT to have inventories be exactly the same except for minor cosmetics, that just wouldn't set moral choice on any meaningful footing ...

If you play a "dark" Tenno, then they should have abilities and weapons and abilities befitting

Close quarter weapons because they bring Death intimately, even sensually

Stealth because deceit is the cornerstone of evil or enhanced Rage - a Juggernaut - because anger is befitting

 

If you play a "light" Tenno, then "Mercy" weapons like enhanced Ether Blades or higher Loyalty mods for companions or team members

 

 

[ElHefe]

But one must ask themselves, "Why do players take the reward all of the time?"

 

My answer with credible speculation: "Because players have no greater reason to complete tasks other than for the loot."

 

The loot should be a reward, but no the reason we play. There are hundreds of games that one plays merely to get better loot.

 

Not to say that games can have both awesome story integration with the loot drops. the Borderlands series, anyone? Gun porn and incessant loot drops with an awesome story.

 

XP and leveling are the only other motivators in Warframe presently and they are equally lacking

[Sitchrea]

For a game like Warframe, only stark moral choices work

Grey doesn't fit in at all well, largely because of the 1-dimensional character of the Tenno

True, a sizeable fraction of players would intentionally play the "dark side" just for kicks

 

BUT to have inventories be exactly the same except for minor cosmetics, that just wouldn't set moral choice on any meaningful footing ...

If you play a "dark" Tenno, then they should have abilities and weapons and abilities befitting

Close quarter weapons because they bring Death intimately, even sensually

Stealth because deceit is the cornerstone of evil or enhanced Rage - a Juggernaut - because anger is befitting

 

If you play a "light" Tenno, then "Mercy" weapons like enhanced Ether Blades or higher Loyalty mods for companions or team members

^All of my this^

Edited October 13, 2014 by Sitchrea

[Othergrunty]

Very well put.

 

I have sometimes noticed a mistake among players to assume that the entire Solar System is only populated by Corpus and Grineer, with the Tenno as tiny free part between them (since the rescue target always sports a Lotus symbol).

The fact that the Infested are also soley made up by mutated Corpus Crewmen and Grineer Lancers, further enhances this feeling.

 

Gradivus Dilemma was also a good indicator for a lack of presence of innocents in the Warframe universe. Several players reacted to the possible outcome of a Grineer victory with: "What Civilians?" Because at that point, nobody has ever seen or heared of any civilians ingame.

 

Even though it could be easily put in, the codex is also lacking any pages detailing the presence of civilians worth protecting.

 

I think what would allready improve the situation, besides some Codex entries, would be the presence of models for civilian space travelers. Like at least a man and woman in a typical bulky space suit with a face hiding round helmet.

Maybe as random hostages in rescue. Or maybe just as dead bodies you might find in missions, like piled up by Grineer on the Earth set, or dead in cells on Corpus ships.

 

Or maybe something more complex, like armed with Bratons and Burstons in special invasion alerts were you have to help them push back a Corpus or Grineer raids. Complete with lines thanking you for helping them out in such a dire situation.

 

Just a small presence to show that they exist.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Othergrunty

[ElHefe]

(edited) ...

 

I think what would allready improve the situation, besides some Codex entries, would be the presence of models for civilian space travelers. Like at least a man and woman in a typical bulky space suit with a face hiding round helmet.

Maybe as random hostages in rescue. Or maybe just as dead bodies you might find in missions, like piled up by Grineer on the Earth set, or dead in cells on Corpus ships.

 

Or maybe something more complex, like armed with Bratons and Burstons in special invasion alerts were you have to help them push back a Corpus or Grineer raids. Complete with lines thanking you for helping them out in such a dire situation.

 

Nice perspective and review but really creative ideas ... 1+

Side quests of this kind can be easily backstrapped ... several key points:

1. Verisimilitude is essential - something the player can emotionally connect with

2. Continuity is valuable - having NPCs return in other quests to reinforce connections

3. Consistency is mandatory - unlike the Grineer or the Corpus which the Tenno can alternately fight for and against (which is very reminiscent of the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period of ancient China), a true civilian population should be one which there is a simple dynamic - help/protect or not

 

Edited October 13, 2014 by ElHefe

[Loswaith]

While the OP makes some great comments and sugestions, I think that the "innocent" aspect is actually in the game, it is just a 'behind the scenes' aspect.

While each of the factions also have their own aspects where it can be considered 'innocents' in the scheme of things (it is part of the nature of a more shades of grey system than a clear black and white), if we look and consider the possibilities.

 

Unfortunatly there are players that simply dont read between the lines (thus the issue from gravidus delema of "what civilians") as well, so short of explaining every detail (be it pasively or actively) they will just not see what could be between those lines.

 

There is a huge area on planets that we as player's never see, while rarely do players even get to explore even an entire ship. 

Why? maybe because Tenno simply dont need to interact with those locations.  Tenno have no need to interact with civilians, and given the indescriminent nature of Warframe powers that is likely a good reason not to go into areas where civilians are and focusing on grineer/corpus/infested hotspots with little to no civilian activity.

Likewise Tenno are portayed as these warrior gods, but really who are Tenno actually these gods too.  I mean grineer and corpus know better as they have killed and experimented on at least Warframes and maybe even tenno themselves.  The infested likely arent concerned about what the tenno are given their percieved animalistic nature.  That really only leaves a civilian population to have these perceptions as they never see these "warriors" but likely hear about them and their deeds mentioned a lot.

 

Though I'll agree we need a lot more information on the factions.  As players we know loosely what each faction is and some of their motivations, just not why they have those motivations.  We have no link or interaction (short of I kill you you kill me type thing) even with the grineer/corpus/infested, even the Lotus and Red Veil we know little about.  The Tenno (players) dont really even know much about themselves either.

We can try and read between the lines on a lot of these things, but how that relates to DE's vision is unknown (though that may be the point too).

Edited October 14, 2014 by Loswaith

[ElHefe]

(edited) ... I think that the "innocent" aspect is actually in the game, it is just a 'behind the scenes' aspect

 

I see the truth in this, but I am conflicted ...

A number of very savvy "Lore Masters" here in the community rightly caution against "reader bias" - warning not to read too much into what is there

However, idle speculation is often expected of the reader

Remember Frank Stockton's "The Lady or the Tiger"?

There is no absolute solution; however, in the end how to balance this dialectic falls upon the writer

 

 

[Sitchrea]

While the OP makes some great comments and sugestions, I think that the "innocent" aspect is actually in the game, it is just a 'behind the scenes' aspect.

While each of the factions also have their own aspects where it can be considered 'innocents' in the scheme of things (it is part of the nature of a more shades of grey system than a clear black and white), if we look and consider the possibilities.

 

Unfortunatly there are players that simply dont read between the lines (thus the issue from gravidus delema of "what civilians") as well, so short of explaining every detail (be it pasively or actively) they will just not see what could be between those lines.

 

There is a huge area on planets that we as player's never see, while rarely do players even get to explore even an entire ship. 

Why? maybe because Tenno simply dont need to interact with those locations.  Tenno have no need to interact with civilians, and given the indescriminent nature of Warframe powers that is likely a good reason not to go into areas where civilians are and focusing on grineer/corpus/infested hotspots with little to no civilian activity.

Likewise Tenno are portayed as these warrior gods, but really who are Tenno actually these gods too.  I mean grineer and corpus know better as they have killed and experimented on at least Warframes and maybe even tenno themselves.  The infested likely arent concerned about what the tenno are given their percieved animalistic nature.  That really only leaves a civilian population to have these perceptions as they never see these "warriors" but likely hear about them and their deeds mentioned a lot.

 

Though I'll agree we need a lot more information on the factions.  As players we know loosely what each faction is and some of their motivations, just not why they have those motivations.  We have no link or interaction (short of I kill you you kill me type thing) even with the grineer/corpus/infested, even the Lotus and Red Veil we know little about.  The Tenno (players) dont really even know much about themselves either.

We can try and read between the lines on a lot of these things, but how that relates to DE's vision is unknown (though that may be the point too).

The problem I see is that we are never shown that civilians do any of these things. Yeah, the reader can assume this but it's not canon, and thus cannot be trusted as fact in the lore of the universe.