Why Do People Hate Pvp?

[Rekkou]

Any game can be build for PvP, remember those old PSX games (Army men, Siphon Filter, Duke Nukem) where you can play versus multiplayer even if the game itself has no co-op multiplayer? if you can put a player against enemy, it's not that hard to player against player.

 

Balance is where you can see whether a game is intended or not to has PvP

[Doom_Bunny]

The whole paragraph helps a lot more.

 

 

Yes, Warframe has been a coop PvE from the very beginning. When we looked at what was out there in F2P, there seemed to be a glut of PvP and not much else. PvP makes sense from a longevity stand-point and is a great community builder (though somewhat difficult to keep from becoming toxic), but we wanted something different for Warframe. We wanted to welcome in more kinds of players: solo players plus players who want to loot and smash with friends without feeling caught in an inferiority loop where only-the-strong survive play. So PvE are the roots of the experience. That being said, the future of Warframe is growth. More bosses, greater enemies, more factions, but eventually we will be reaching outward into giving Clans greater meaning and yes, eventually, PvP.

 

The problem that gets me with PVP is that it "skewers" the lore side ways. If clans (clans make the PVP a hell of a lot more toxic) weren't involved and both teams had unlimited lives everything would be ok, we could just have fun killing each other seperate from the lore and on a different damage system so we don't mess with the PVE balance.

 

More game mods like CTF and interception would be fun and combined with archwing it's going to really fun.

Removing the ability mods is going to help a bit as people are going to need to work harder if they want to use their fourth ability.

Though we may need either bigger maps or better spawning to prevent spawn camping.

 

Basically PVP either needs to be entirely separte to not kill the lore or the PVE balance. Or it needs to be incorperated in such a way that re-balancing isn't needed and fits in with the lore.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Postal_pat

[Rakshal]

Just a heads up people, saying "This game wasn't built around PvP," is a poor argument. :)

[Cleesus]

This thread will need to be locked if it continues any longer.

Nah for now a good cleaning will do just fine.

 

Thread is unlocked.

 

I understand everyone has different views on PVE/PVP and the future of it in warframe, but arguing over if whether a mode currently in game and supported by the devs should be there or not gets us no where. Its just as productive as the Warframe is/isnt beta and Excal prime debates, which tend to go nowhere.

 

You dont have to agree with each other but state your opinions in a respectful, constructive manner.

[SmokinDevil]

Wait...people actually believe that if a small group of people complain, that developers have to cater to this group?

 

 

It's not like they had their own ideas and wanted PvP themselves. Noooo...that'd be weird.

 

PvP does NOT ruin the lore of the game. There are so many simple fixes. Using it as an excuse is utter bollocks. Although DE didn't work on UT3, you can see how easy it is to implement it into the lore. Skip to 5 minutes.

 

[Kalenath]

The whole paragraph helps a lot more.

 

Quote

Yes, Warframe has been a coop PvE from the very beginning. When we looked at what was out there in F2P, there seemed to be a glut of PvP and not much else. PvP makes sense from a longevity stand-point and is a great community builder (though somewhat difficult to keep from becoming toxic), but we wanted something different for Warframe. We wanted to welcome in more kinds of players: solo players plus players who want to loot and smash with friends without feeling caught in an inferiority loop where only-the-strong survive play. So PvE are the roots of the experience. That being said, the future of Warframe is growth. More bosses, greater enemies, more factions, but eventually we will be reaching outward into giving Clans greater meaning and yes, eventually, PvP.

 

 

The problem that gets me with PVP is that it "skewers" the lore side ways. If clans (clans make the PVP a hell of a lot more toxic) weren't involved and both teams had unlimited lives everything would be ok, we could just have fun killing each other seperate from the lore and on a different damage system so we don't mess with the PVE balance.

 

More game mods like CTF and interception would be fun and combined with archwing it's going to really fun.

Removing the ability mods is going to help a bit as people are going to need to work harder if they want to use their fourth ability.

Though we may need either bigger maps or better spawning to prevent spawn camping.

 

Basically PVP either needs to be entirely separte to not kill the lore or the PVE balance. Or it needs to be incorperated in such a way that re-balancing isn't needed and fits in with the lore.

 

Don't confuse people with the FACTS. Bad idea.

 

I wouldn't MIND THAT kind of PvP. Separate from the regular game, not involved with clan crap. Breaking the lore is not TOTALLY a game breaker for me.

 

What I DO mind is the crap that people are demanding. Open world gankfests and griefing because they can. Because they WANT to screw up OTHER players experiences for the fun of it.

 

This is SUPPOSED to be a co-op game. Haven't been seeing lot of cooperation recently.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Kalenath

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

For me at least, I am not against having PVP in the game. The existence of PVP does not bother me. What does bother me about PVP in this game, however, is how horribly unbalanced it is, how easily exploitable it is, and that we do not have dedicated servers for it.

 

If those three issues are addressed properly, then I'm all aboard the PVP train. But until then, I want no part in it.

[ReaperSticks]

Conclaves did not destroy the lore.

 

Dark Sectors PVP kind of did, but I just chalk it up to original Tenno being on their Lisets while they control a Spectre of themselves to fight (i.e.: A video game for Tenno). :

never thought about that before thats creative :)

[VampirePirate]

My clan has 60 members so far and the majority pvp all the time and we all have fun (otherwise they wouldn't do it). Why are there so many people who hate pvp and claim it's broken? I want a real answer so I can stop thinking that most people just aren't good at playing the game or using its controls in high demand situations. I don't want that to be the default thought.

I don't hate pvp and have played quite a lot of it in other games.  I have done very little of that in this game.  For me, it is not such much the pvp as it is the bad attitudes and poor sportsmanship some people (pvpers) tend to have -- in both victory and defeat.   I want to have fun, but if I get verbally assaulted for winning or for losing -- one too many times -- I lose interest and go do something else.  In the same fashion, I get the same attitudes while playing pve, but for some reason it just doesn't seem as personal in cooperation mode as it does in competitive mode.  In pve, I most likely won't run into them again, and if I do, not big deal... but... in pvp, if I run into them again, it gets intense because I either defeated them or got defeated by them.  I don't take anything personal, but when others do so, it annoys the mess out of me.

 

I think many others can relate to this, the one that "hate pvp".  One positive thing I find in pvp is that it helps to sharpen my skills when competing with another players, so it's not a complete disaster and does have meaningful use.

[Doom_Bunny]

-snip-

Yes there are fixes for it but we have not seen or heard of any fixes coming to lessen the blow to the lore that dark sectors cause. So until we get some sort of fix dark sectors will continue to hurt the lore.

 

Another thing is that UT had unlimited spawns so I could fire a redeemer at you, you would die but you wouldn't give damn because there is unlimited spawns, so you can get me back easily. Really warframe PVP is just everyone walking around with instagib on, the only problem with that though is limited spawns and you spawn in the same place so it's easy to spawn camp.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Postal_pat

[.Talia.]

As an avid Conclave player, i feel like the Warframe PvP just needs some balancing to be really good. When experienced players with weapons fully forma'd just for PvP, fighting on fair terms, that's when the skill shows up. And it's one of the most intense PvP experience i ever seen.

 

Now the real problem is... Why does it have to exist this "fair terms" i mentioned? What are those things that make us have rules, if we want a fair fight? Those issues with Warframe PvP, identify them and Balance them. The PvP Feedback section is full of excellent feedback about that. 

That's exactly why regular Conclavers hate Dark Sectors PvP, because people are not there to make friends, they will abuse and exploit all dirty tricks available to win, we can't expect players to play fair when there are rewards involved. That's DE's job to fix the unbalance. 

 

And i believe that with Archwing might be an opportunity to balance the PvP right from the start. Because this game mode will basically have an entire different loudout, apparently the Warframe you are using doesn't even matter. (I might be wrong on that.)

Edited October 21, 2014 by RexSol

[Kalenath]

I don't hate pvp and have played quite a lot of it in other games.  I have done very little of that in this game.  For me, it is not such much the pvp as it is the bad attitudes and poor sportsmanship some people (pvpers) tend to have -- in both victory and defeat.   I want to have fun, but if I get verbally assaulted for winning or for losing -- one too many times -- I lose interest and go do something else.  In the same fashion, I get the same attitudes while playing pve, but for some reason it just doesn't seem as personal in cooperation mode as it does in competitive mode.  In pve, I most likely won't run into them again, and if I do, not big deal... but... in pvp, if I run into them again, it gets intense because I either defeated them or got defeated by them.  I don't take anything personal, but when others do so, it annoys the mess out of me.

 

I think many others can relate to this, the one that "hate pvp".  One positive thing I find in pvp is that it helps to sharpen my skills when competing with another players, so it's not a complete disaster and does have meaningful use.

 

Well said.

 

I don't hate PvP.

 

I hate PvP in Warframe. It is broken, it will NOT be balanced anytime soon as it is, and it is filled with people using cheap tactics to win. (Not even counting the clan tax crap) I don't like playing other PvP games filled with exploiters and hackers, why should I enjoy the game mechanics being exploited here?

 

Win or lose, I still lose. I lose my interest in continuing to PLAY.

 

And I find that sad because this is such a cool game.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Kalenath

[perfectStranger]

LOL at this statement. XD

I should also add that normally the pvp crowds just tend to create a critical mass of posts in highly flammable threads, which generally have 0 informative value, thus contributing only to the degradation of the contents quality in the forums.

Maybe the problem is in the container, the forum, if it was a reddit instead many uninteresting contents would just be trashed in a blink by the self moderation built into it, while in a forum the more controversial a topic is the more is going to stay on top of the forum sections, even while being as valuable as pure spam.

 

PvP topics are always controversial.

Edited October 21, 2014 by perfectStranger

[ZenroZephon]

me i don't like pvp cause i'm not good at it and cause pvp only breeds nerf wanting whiners who only want everyone but themselves to be nerfed and don't care if the nerf breaks the rest of the game for others. cause they themselves can't be asked to learn how to even play the game and/or gamemode worth a damn.

[(PSN)JoeyTwoShoes]

I personally don't mind PvP, as long as it stays completely optional. As long as PvP remains in the state where no weapons, mods or rewards of any kind require it to be played I'm perfectly fine with it.

 

And for those who say it's "lore-breaking", you can easily imagine reasons for why Tenno 'kill' eachother, like below:

 

Conclaves did not destroy the lore.

 

Dark Sectors PVP kind of did, but I just chalk it up to original Tenno being on their Lisets while they control a Spectre of themselves to fight (i.e.: A video game for Tenno). 

 

It, like many lore gaps in Warframe, can be filled by players with their imagination.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

PVP in Warframe is just bad.  Any PVP in games similar to Warframe tends to be bad.  If I wanted to PVP, I'd go boot up one of my PVP oriented games, not Warframe.

 

The only way I see PVP being fun in Warframe is Archwing dogfights.

[.Talia.]

me i don't like pvp cause i'm not good at it and cause pvp only breeds nerf wanting whiners who only want everyone but themselves to be nerfed and don't care if the nerf breaks the rest of the game for others. cause they themselves can't be asked to learn how to even play the game and/or gamemode worth a damn.

Until you realize that PvP changes do not affect PvE.

[SmokinDevil]

Yes there are fixes for it but we have not seen or heard of any fixes coming to lessen the blow to the lore that dark sectors cause. So until we get some sort of fix dark sectors will continue to hurt the lore.

 

No one knows if Tenno are actually dying (I think not). Remember that the mode is objective-based. Technically, you don't have to kill anyone. 

 

If we are still going for the 'lore' card, what about MOBAs? Since that is what the mode is based off of. What happens when two heros/champs come from the same place? Do they just not fight? Are the characters locked out? No.

[Kalenath]

It, like many lore gaps in Warframe, can be filled by players with their imagination.

 

Yes it can be. That is one of the things Steve wanted US to do. Fill in the gaps ourselves. He said that in the very first devstream and many after.

 

I hadn't thought of TENNO playing PvP video games. Lol, I should have. Flying in space would get BORING fast...

Edited October 21, 2014 by Kalenath

[vaugahn]

That's exactly why regular Conclavers hate Dark Sectors PvP, because people are not there to make friends, they will abuse and exploit all dirty tricks available to win, we can't expect players to play fair when there are rewards involved. That's DE's job to fix the unbalance. 

 

I think a lot of people don't realize the difference between conclave and dark sector PvP and just lump it in under one umbrella.

[Doom_Bunny]

Until you realize that PvP changes do not affect PvE.

Until you look at Ash. In PVE he was ok not alot players played him. Inside PVP he was a god so a lot of noobs played him, then many people asked for nerfs and still ask for a nerf. Because of how good he was in PVP he got nerfed in both PVE and PVP.

[.Talia.]

Until you look at Ash. In PVE he was ok not alot players played him. Inside PVP he was a god so a lot of noobs played him, then many people asked for nerfs and still ask for a nerf. Because of how good he was in PVP he got nerfed in both PVE and PVP.

 

Do you even read patch notes?

[SmokinDevil]

I think a lot of people don't realize the difference between conclave and dark sector PvP and just lump it in under one umbrella.

 

You can fight players in conclave.

You can fight players in DS PvP.

PvP is bad.

Therefore, Conclave and DS are bad. 

 

Bam. Just did the work for you. I'm a genius.

[EChondo]

I haven't really read everyone's response in this thread, so sorry if I am repeating someone else, but...

 

I've been around since Warframe was added to Steam, so over a year ago. When I started playing, there was no such thing as PVP, but ever since PVP was added it feels as if nerfs and "balancing" changes were made because of PVP and not because of PVE. So, in my opinion, PVP is what is the cause for a lot of the nerfs we've had over the year.

 

I love PVP in other games(Halo, CoD, BF), but that is not why I come to play Warframe. I come to play Warframe for coop between my clan and friends. To me, PVP does not belong in Warframe. I've tried it, don't like it, so I don't want it.

 

Oh and to clarify, I don't mean to imply that ALL nerfs are because of PVP, but it feels as if some or most are because of it.

Edited October 21, 2014 by EChondo

[SmokinDevil]

I haven't really read everyone's response in this thread, so sorry if I am repeating someone else, but...

 

I've been around since Warframe was added to Steam, so over a year ago. When I started playing, there was no such thing as PVP, but ever since PVP was added it feels as if nerfs and "balancing" changes were made because of PVP and not because of PVE. So, in my opinion, PVP is what is the cause for a lot of the nerfs we've had over the year.

 

I love PVP in other games(Halo, CoD, BF), but that is not why I come to play Warframe. I come to play Warframe for coop between my clan and friends. To me, PVP does not belong in Warframe. I've tried it, don't like it, so I don't want it.

 

But...that's not true...