Why Do People Hate Pvp?

[.Talia.]

You see here guys? A nice, quick explanation of what I'm asking for(although not providing patch notes, which I guess I'll look for over the weeks). Thank you Rex for not being a nitwit and bringing in a philosophical viewpoint in place to undermine my posts but not proving me wrong.

 

 

And thank you for the past examples in other post as well as a link to the wiki page.

 

I'm just pointing out something that you seem to be unaware of. :P

Edited October 21, 2014 by RexSol

[Komodo_Saurian]

"My clan has 60 members so far and the majority pvp all the time and we all have fun"

 

This is why.

 

Join some pugs, get steamrolled by an organised team, get the general idea of why people hate player vs player modes. It's not fun unless you invest time and effort and most would rather just go and kill some stupid bots in PvE.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Komodo_Saurian

[Temfist]

My clan has 60 members so far and the majority pvp all the time and we all have fun (otherwise they wouldn't do it). Why are there so many people who hate pvp and claim it's broken? I want a real answer so I can stop thinking that most people just aren't good at playing the game or using its controls in high demand situations. I don't want that to be the default thought.

it currently, while fun and still enjoyable for casual PvP, is too broken to be considered competitive and worth substantial effort etc. (Conflicts in this case)

 

CC moves like Jat Kittag leap attacks or any weapon with only blast damage and a high status chance are going to completely destroy any and everyone without "Fortitude" and "Constitution" equipped, and the whole idea of taking non-balanced powers and frames into a competitive setting in the first place is just begging to be exploited. Not to mention, some weapons are simply so powerful, and outclass other weapons so much, that being on the team that consumed "lives" means you have to worry about your teammates getting ROFL Stomped into oblivion by said weapons before the match ends early, which puts on side at a major disadvantage.

 

essentially, PvP is currently, 20 man offense vs Defenses with health/unlimited man defense. It's only fair because it takes a while to kill 20 people on average, vs the time it takes dispatch defenses objectives etc.

 

 

 

 

I personally would like a PvP mode that gives you preset characters and weapons, putting everyone on the same level, and giving you a terminal in each stage that allows you to change your mods in game. Then giving you credits that only apply for the match your in when you complete objectives and get kills etc., and having a "load out shop" where you can custom buy mods from a list of available ones. This would allow you to suit your character each game to the needs of what the enemies were using. you'd all be playing with the same frames and weapons, the same limitations. It'd feel more like a MOBA game that rewards you for strategy, skill and teamwork, and less like the "unaccessible mess" it currently is where end game players have such an advantage over newbies that newbies can't even enjoy PvP.

 

you could argue they could put Conclave limits on Conflicts, but that still allows plenty of exploits, so it'd just be so much simpler to make it like a MOBA that they could add a weapon or warframe too every so often after testplaying them and balancing out their kit for PvP etc. Most importantly, PvP would possibly have it's own unique mods, as well as having alternate versions of Warframe abilities, in order to make them as meaningful as possible. The new level up/power system will help PvP immensely, but there still needs to be other elements of balance to make the game feel like a true PvP experience, and not a tacked on feature for fun.

 

If people want the imbalanced system we currently have, let it be an option for Clan PvP, not generic matchmaking. Tenno Conflicts should feel like noteworthy PvP. I also would love for them to promote improved PvP by adding more unlockable cosmetics that can only be obtained through PvP, if they wished to give non-competitive players some incentive etc.

 

 

all that said, I still think it's fun currently, and I'm sure most people would say "it's fun", but it's just not "good PvP", and so some people are disappointed by that enough to say they "hate" it. DE has it on the back burner, but hopefully someday it will get the attention it needs to bring Warframe's PvP out of obscurity and into a more professional limelight it belongs.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Temphis

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Because it is terrible.

[Renegade343]

Because you aren't experienced in conclaves.

To be honest, he is half-right. 

 

Conclaves looks (I say looks because I have not played it) fun and well-played (granted, the honour rules are being strictly followed). Dark Sector PVP is a bit of a mess with everyone exploiting stuff (and yes, I am guilty of shooting enemy players through those defence barriers with a Karak and a Shred mod [and DE(L) does need to fix that up]). 

[dgpainkiller]

I wouldn't said that I hate PvP, but I don't think it fits in Warframe. They are supposed to be loyal to each other. Not kill each other.

 

Been playing alot of PvP in the past (WoW, Rift, Secret World, and tons of FPS, if you can call those PvP games) and by experience, PvP has a tendency to destroy the PvE aspects. Since I have never played PvP in Warframe (and never will) I can't say that's the case here thou.

 

In the past, it has been said that PvP was never supposed to be a big thing in Warframe. Sure it would be added, but PvE would be the main focus.

[Escantell]

I have never played PVP simply because I'm here for the PVE and hate playing against other people.

[Gr33hn]

For the people saying it's a PvE game and that they'd play something else if they wanted PvP:

 

Why would you want a game to limit itself? Why play The Legend of Zelda only for the direct quests and not look around for whatever else you can find or do? The dark sectors give a new section of the game to be explored and played. It keeps it from being linear. I prefer to have options and not to have to go to another game just to play a specific videogame feature.

 

Because this game is a unbalanced mess and gives a sub par PvP experience and it breaks the immersion of the game, you are this ancient tenno from a by gone time fighting to uphold balance with every tenno being valuable and irreplaceable, then all of the sudden you go killing off your fellows over greed and control over some infested pit. 

 

Dont get me wrong I like PvP and I have spent twice as much time on PvP games over the last few years then I have on PvE but I dont think PvP as it is has any place in Warframe. The "honorable duels" of the conclaves was fine for those who liked it but I consider the DSs to be a abomination.

Edited October 21, 2014 by VikingoX

[MihawkDulacr1]

I join the opinion that i dont like PVP either much, and i come from very focused pvp games like Dynasty Warriors Online or Planetside 2. Dont get me wrong, pvp can be cool - but what he have is unbalanced and will be further on.

I love warframe because its a game where you can discuss S#&$loads of time about lore or other gameplay functions, i simply have the fear that the now welcoming community would change when  they would add more pvp, which is why i dont support a deeper pvp system (yet)

 

PvP might get an update and focus later , very very later in the dev cycle - but not in the forseeable future as i would think of DE.

Edited October 21, 2014 by MihawkDulacr1

[Phoenix86]

i dont hate PvP but it's evident that, in warframe, it isnt viable right now unless using completely unmodded stuff.

 

With mid to end game stuff it's just an insta-gib festival

[Zeis]

we need PVP only mods

Edited October 21, 2014 by Zeis

[Nlim]

As far as I can tell the biggest issue of PvP for the majority is simply the lack of information/tutuorial.

For example I had a look around for Dark Sector Pvp how exactly the unlocks work and what kind of weapons are recommanded but hardly got anything outside the most basic information you could gather in 5 min yourself.

And since the game is overloaded with options in terms of mods and weapons from the PvE section of which a majority of configuartions is not viable for PvP you will first have to work a great deal before you will be even close to an equal playing field in terms of power alone (not skill) and you will have to invest all this work before you are even sure if you will enjoy Pvp in the end.

Their is a reason why developers like to push accessibility a lot since often it is simply not reasonable to expect a player to infest a S#&$load of work without even having an idea what the end result will be.

Maybe a beginner mode with locked loadouts for evryone so that people can play Pvp on occasion without having to jump a lot of hurdles first would help the perception of pvp in the community.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Nlim

[Rhaenxys]

The balance between abilities and weapons is horrible but i like the moba concept of dark sectors.

 

Every match i play is the same things, ash bladestorm, mirage prism, invisibility ash/loki and for weapons glaxion/melee spam/acrid/boltor prime.

 

Dark Sector PvP is fine, the balance is what i dislike.

[HAYABU5A]

people who like warframes 'pvp' (so called) must be awful at real pvp games, if you for one second actually think it is a thing

do you play any other games at all ? its like this is the first pvp experience you have had in your life 

 

you want to know why people dont like it because there is nothing to like, like literally there is not anything, no properly designed and balanced pvp experience exists 

if it did we would all be playing it !!

 

but it has so much potential, i have faith DE will get it right and we will all be pvping happily one day 

[RoboDoge]

Why i dislike PvP? Mostly because PvP slowly but surely ruins every community. Wonderful threads like this examples keep appearing if too much PvP is involved.

 

 

XYZ player is a noob, he made me lose the game.

 

I am so 1337 and skillful, nobody can touch me.

 

Nerf XZY because he or she killed me 3 times in a row.

 

Haxors everywhere, i keep dying!

 

 

And many more.

[.Talia.]

 

people who like warframes 'pvp' (so called) must be awful at real pvp games, if you for one second actually think it is a thing

do you play any other games at all ? its like this is the first pvp experience you have had in your life 

 

you want to know why people dont like it because there is nothing to like, like literally there is not anything, no properly designed and balanced pvp experience exists 

if it did we would all be playing it !!

 

but it has so much potential, i have faith DE will get it right and we will all be pvping happily one day 

 

About your very unfortunate comment about people who likes Warframe PvP, i play twitch shooters since the days of Unreal Tournament, i played Quake 3 Arena and played CS1.6 and CS:GO but for some reason i never really liked these more recent first person shooters like BF and CoD. Also WoW i used to love PvP there. And other games like APB:Reloaded it was the game i played before coming to Warframe i had 2 rank 255 characters on server Joker. Also played Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer for some time but it got boring really fast.

 

But Warframe, i beat the game and have literally everything fully forma'd, i have 1800 hours and the Conclaves keeps me around. For me it's one of the most intense PvP experience ever, if played among experienced players with weapons fully forma'd just for PvP, fighting on fair terms, even better if among friends. As an avid Conclave player, i feel like the Warframe PvP just needs proper balancing to be really good, the controls are already fluid and fun and it tends to get only better with time.

[RoboDoge]

 

 

 

About your very unfortunate comment about people who likes Warframe PvP, i play twitch shooters since the days of Unreal Tournament, i played Quake 3 Arena and played CS1.6 and CS:GO but for some reason i never really liked these more recent first person shooters like BF and CoD. Also WoW i used to love PvP there. And other games like APB:Reloaded it was the game i played before coming to Warframe i had 2 rank 255 characters on server Joker. Also played Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer for some time but it got boring really fast.

 

But Warframe, i beat the game and have literally everything fully forma'd, i have 1800 hours and the Conclaves keeps me around. For me it's one of the most intense PvP experience ever, if played among experienced players with weapons fully forma'd just for PvP, fighting on fair terms, even better if among friends. As an avid Conclave player, i feel like the Warframe PvP just needs proper balancing to be really good, the controls are already fluid and fun and it tends to get only better with time.

 

High five fellow Quaker!

[Mokkania]

 

 

 

About your very unfortunate comment about people who likes Warframe PvP, i play twitch shooters since the days of Unreal Tournament, i played Quake 3 Arena and played CS1.6 and CS:GO but for some reason i never really liked these more recent first person shooters like BF and CoD. Also WoW i used to love PvP there. And other games like APB:Reloaded it was the game i played before coming to Warframe i had 2 rank 255 characters on server Joker. Also played Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer for some time but it got boring really fast.

 

But Warframe, i beat the game and have literally everything fully forma'd, i have 1800 hours and the Conclaves keeps me around. For me it's one of the most intense PvP experience ever, if played among experienced players with weapons fully forma'd just for PvP, fighting on fair terms, even better if among friends. As an avid Conclave player, i feel like the Warframe PvP just needs proper balancing to be really good, the controls are already fluid and fun and it tends to get only better with time.

 

It feels to me that the reason you like warframe pvp is more related to the current "fairness" environment which is uncharacteristic of pvp games.

[.Talia.]

It feels to me that the reason you like warframe pvp is more related to the current "fairness" environment which is uncharacteristic of pvp games.

 

The reason why i love Warframe PvP is because it's a twitch shooter with parkour, melee, cool powers, and fluid controls... Awesome, everything i ever wanted in a game. On top of that i love the art style of the game.

PS: Don't tell me to play Destiny cause i don't have console.

[Monolake]

First of all pvp in WF is poorly made and feels very unfair, many who try it never want to play it again, its that bad. 

 

 

Then some people don't like stress of rivalry at all, they dont want to fight equally powered and intelligent opponents with an equal chance of losing, they want to slay easy mobs, where everyone is a winner. 

[.Talia.]

First of all pvp in WF is poorly made and feels very unfair, many who try it never want to play it again, its that bad. 

 

 

Then some people don't like stress of rivalry at all, they dont want to fight equally powered and intelligent opponents with an equal chance of losing, they want to slay easy mobs, where everyone is a winner. 

 

And that is very reasonable. I enjoy PvE missions myself, after all i'm a MR 17 that farmed literally everything in the game. But why limit the game to only that, when it can be much more? It's optional.

 

Yes the PvP have many broken and unbalanced things. But PvP is part of the game now, its happening, they won't simply remove it. Since it's around, don't you agree it would be better to have a balanced PvP? That's really all there is to it, identify those issues with PvP and balance/fix them. 

Edited October 21, 2014 by RexSol

[Chaosdreamer]

When i started to play , DE said "Theire will never be PvP,we're focus on PVE" then conclave came , and later dark sector pvp , I guess that why people hate Pvp

[Mokkania]

The reason why i love Warframe PvP is because it's a twitch shooter with parkour, melee, cool powers, and fluid controls... Awesome, everything i ever wanted in a game. On top of that i love the art style of the game.

PS: Don't tell me to play Destiny cause i don't have console.

I do think it has some potential, only the balance thing rebuke me in my case, and maybe a bit more elaboration (currently conclave and dark sektors only, I'm more interested in dark sektors if only the gameplay conditions were better)

But I don't consider warframe pvp that much spectacular.

[Monolake]

And that is very reasonable. I enjoy PvE missions myself, after all i'm a MR 17 that farmed literally everything in the game. But why limit the game to only that, when it can be much more? It's optional.

 

Yes the PvP have many broken and unbalanced things. But PvP is part of the game now, its happening, they won't simply remove it. Since it's around, don't you agree it would be better to have a balanced PvP? That's really all there is to it, identify those issues with PvP and balance/fix them. 

 

Since only ~5% are seriously into pvp, DEL focuses its effort on pve. And pvp is a leftover they do in w/e little time left. 

They even struggle to balance pve and dont have a designer for that, so what do you expect.  You can read Steve interview on rps, the dev focus is on pve 

 

 

Steve Sinclair : "I think we got a certain type of player invested and interested in the game and sticking with us. For the most part they want to play with their friends not against them. We do have a growing faction of Warframe members who are invested in the Dark Sector mode I talked about and we have been improving Conclave which is our PvP duelling system. Unlike other companies, we haven’t thrown out the things that have made the game successful at the expense of chasing after that."    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/10/16/warframe-archwing-update/

[tehgreg]

The reason is simple: as long as PvP exists DE isn't focusing their 100% on PvE which is the main appeal of the game. Time spent on balancing/fixing/upgrading PvP could be spent on adding new PvE content.