Limbo Overall

[GreyEnneract]

This thread will be about Limbo feedback overall, but mostly about his abilities.

 

As far as Limbo's theme goes, he is portrayed as being a Void Sorcerer, a being in between the Void and Reality that can utilize powers that allow him to send allies and enemies in between each respective realm. His secondary theme would be that of a sort of stage magician, explaining the top hat. The Void part fits him, however the Sorcerer part does not seem to. Having only one recastable damage ability, that can only be casted on the same enemy once does not really convince me and a few others that he is a Sorcerer. While his other abilities focus on being in the Rift.

 

For the powers, there does seem to be a great deal of synergy, however at the same time there isn't much to make said synergy worthwhile. The payout to combo with Limbo is not worth the time it takes to make it happen.

 

1. Banish allows Limbo to send an enemy or ally into the Rift, while dealing a miniscule amount of damage on enemies and knocking them down. Once casted on an enemy, Banish cannot be casted on them again, the same goes for allies. To start off, this ability is decent, it lets you single out who you want inside of the Rift and has a single target CC. Complaints that I've heard about this skill are that it lacks AOE, and that some Limbo users are able to make their allies useless to the majority of the enemies on the field. One solution I could see for this is being able to cast Banish on an enemy/ally once again to bring them back into the normal plane. However, this still gives Limbo a bit too much control over his allies. Other solutions are welcomed.

 

2. Rift Walk sends Limbo into the Rift, and using the ability again brings him back into the normal plane. This skill is nice for reviving allies, and to me is his best skill at the moment. Being able to turn it on and off is a very nice addition, and I see no problems with this skill alone. 

 

3. Rift Surge amplifies any damage dealt on Rifted enemies by 1.5x (affected by power str). This skill is basically like Rhino's Roar, except it only affects Rifted enemies. This is where the problem starts. If you wanted a damage amplifier, why not just use a Rhino, Nova, Banshee, etc? Having amplified damage only on Rifted enemies while at the same time only having the base amplification at 1.5x is what I meant earlier when I said the comboing is not worthwhile. I'm sure there are many suggestions on what to do with this skill. Mine personally was to make it so that Limbo could shoot enemies not inside the Rift while he is inside of the Rift, and to keep the damage amplification only enemies inside of the Rift. It would work in a similar way to Mirage's Eclipse, except instead of Light/Dark areas, it would be inside the Rift and outside the Rift. Tell me your suggestions.

 

4. Cataclysm opens up a huge bubble space of Rift that lasts for a certain duration and shrinks over time. Enemies and allies inside of this field are inside of the Rift, and cannot be damaged from enemies on the outside or allies on the outside. It also does a miniscule amount of damage upon exit and entry to enemies, and when it ends. For some reason though, upon entry/exit, enemies are not knocked down like with Banish. This skill is only really used if you want to have the damage amplifier of Rift Surge on many enemies at once in a short amount of time. Putting Cataclysm around the pod does not protect it from outside fire, and while it does protect allies inside from outside fire, allies cannot shoot those enemies coming towards them. I'm personally confused as to why it has to shrink down in size. There are many ways to fix this ability to make it worthwhile, so again, let me know your suggestions.

 

Extra Points

 

While in the Rift, allies gain around 2 energy every 3 seconds.

 

While in the Rift, items cannot be picked up, and datamass/power cores also cannot be held. I think that this is a bug however, since placing Cataclysm over a large area is a very effective trolling technique. At the same time though, you can Banish allies and make them useless and that's working as intended.

 

The Defense Pod cannot be placed into the Rift state, I could see how this could be a bit too powerful, but right now I'm neutral on this.

 

Allies inside the Rift can damage enemies not inside the Rift, and vice-versa, only with their powers. I don't know if this is a bug or if it's working as intended, but it does bring synergy with frames that have high ability damage output. Example: Putting Ember into the Rift, basically placing god mode onto her, and having her run around with her ultimate on.

 

What I feel the overall problem is.

Other than the extreme amount of trolling he can dish out to his squad, I feel that the following would fix Limbo.

There are currently no advantages for you or allies to fight inside of the Rift state other than the very low amount of energy recovery while inside. I think that adding more aspects to the Rift plane itself would be able to fix the majority of Limbo's problems. Something along the lines of slowing, confusion, lowered enemy stats, etc. Currently, fighting enemies inside of the Rift effectively ends up being the same as if nothing happened, even with Rift Surge active it's only amplifies damage by 1.5x. With the way Limbo is now, I can't help but just see him as a less effective Frost. I want Limbo to be fixed before he ends up as a gimmick frame, the same fate that Nekros fell to. Discuss please.

 

(Many points, some unsaid here, came from this thread which was moved to Players helping Players for some reason: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/329254-how-are-limbos-skills-useful/ )

 

EDIT: Mogamu offers a great examination into Limbo! I agree with all of his points!

 

EDIT 2: BASED DE HAS HEARD US A BIT!

 

Limbo Changes and Fixes 15.0.5:

 

Increased the intensity of the Rift Surge buff visual effects.

Rift Walk can now be disabled by the Stalker.

Banish can now be recast on targets to bring them back and forth from the Rift.

Fixed Void laser traps still harming Limbo in Rift Walk mode.

Fixed an issue with the visual effects for Limbo's channeling not appearing correctly.

Fixed Corpus Mine Osprey mines (as well as other replicated projectiles) affecting across Limbo’s Rift on Clients.

Please note that more tweaks to Limbo will come in the next Hotfix.

 

EDIT 3: More Limbo Tweaks 15.0.6

 

Rift Surge Amplifier raised to 3x.

Sped up casting animation for Rift Surge.

Fixed issues with the Limbo Theorem quest inbox not automatically appearing.

Stalker ability cancel ability can close rifts. Prevents people from just using Banish or Tear in Space to avoid being hurt by the Stalker.

Fixed issues with Void laser and Ice traps affecting Limbo while Rift Walk is active.

Fixed issues with Limbo dropping items like the datamass while activating Rift Walk potentially losing them forever.

 

EDIT 4: A minor change, hopefully bigger ones come soon.

15.0.7: Tweaked the Banish cast animation and increased casting speeds.

 

EDIT 5: Official Feedback Thread!: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/334516-limbo-development-and-feedback/#entry3753352

Edited October 30, 2014 by GreyEnneract

[Gahrzerkire]

This thread will be about Limbo feedback overall, but mostly about his abilities.

 

As far as Limbo's theme goes, he is portrayed as being a Void Sorcerer, a being in between the Void and Reality that can utilize powers that allow him to send allies and enemies in between each respective realm. His secondary theme would be that of a sort of stage magician, explaining the top hat. The Void part fits him, however the Sorcerer part does not seem to. Having only one recastable damage ability, that can only be casted on the same enemy once does not really convince me and a few others that he is a Sorcerer. While his other abilities focus on being in the Rift.

 

For the powers, there does seem to be a great deal of synergy, however at the same time there isn't much to make said synergy worthwhile. The payout to combo with Limbo is not worth the time it takes to make it happen.

 

1. Banish allows Limbo to send an enemy or ally into the Rift, while dealing a miniscule amount of damage on enemies and knocking them down. Once casted on an enemy, Banish cannot be casted on them again, the same goes for allies. To start off, this ability is decent, it lets you single out who you want inside of the Rift and has a single target CC. Complaints that I've heard about this skill are that it lacks AOE, and that some Limbo users are able to make their allies useless to the majority of the enemies on the field. One solution I could see for this is being able to cast Banish on an enemy/ally once again to bring them back into the normal plane. However, this still gives Limbo a bit too much control over his allies. Other solutions are welcomed.

 

2. Rift Walk sends Limbo into the Rift, and using the ability again brings him back into the normal plane. This skill is nice for reviving allies, and to me is his best skill at the moment. Being able to turn it on and off is a very nice addition, and I see no problems with this skill alone. 

 

3. Rift Surge amplifies any damage dealt on Rifted enemies by 1.5x (affected by power str). This skill is basically like Rhino's Roar, except it only affects Rifted enemies. This is where the problem starts. If you wanted a damage amplifier, why not just use a Rhino, Nova, Banshee, etc? Having amplified damage only on Rifted enemies while at the same time only having the base amplification at 1.5x is what I meant earlier when I said the comboing is not worthwhile. I'm sure there are many suggestions on what to do with this skill. Mine personally was to make it so that Limbo could shoot enemies not inside the Rift while he is inside of the Rift, and to keep the damage amplification only enemies inside of the Rift. It would work in a similar way to Mirage's Eclipse, except instead of Light/Dark areas, it would be inside the Rift and outside the Rift. Tell me your suggestions.

 

4. Cataclysm opens up a huge bubble space of Rift that lasts for a certain duration and shrinks over time. Enemies and allies inside of this field are inside of the Rift, and cannot be damaged from enemies on the outside or allies on the outside. It also does a miniscule amount of damage upon exit and entry to enemies, and when it ends. For some reason though, upon entry/exit, enemies are not knocked down like with Banish. This skill is only really used if you want to have the damage amplifier of Rift Surge on many enemies at once in a short amount of time. Putting Cataclysm around the pod does not protect it from outside fire, and while it does protect allies inside from outside fire, allies cannot shoot those enemies coming towards them. I'm personally confused as to why it has to shrink down in size. There are many ways to fix this ability to make it worthwhile, so again, let me know your suggestions.

 

Extra Points

 

While in the Rift, allies gain around 2 energy every 3 seconds.

 

While in the Rift, items cannot be picked up, and datamass/power cores also cannot be held. I think that this is a bug however, since placing Cataclysm over a large area is a very effective trolling technique. At the same time though, you can Banish allies and make them useless and that's working as intended.

 

The Defense Pod cannot be placed into the Rift state, I could see how this could be a bit too powerful, but right now I'm neutral on this.

 

Allies inside the Rift can damage enemies not inside the Rift, and vice-versa, only with their powers. I don't know if this is a bug or if it's working as intended, but it does bring synergy with frames that have high ability damage output. Example: Putting Ember into the Rift, basically placing god mode onto her, and having her run around with her ultimate on.

 

What I feel the overall problem is.

Other than the extreme amount of trolling he can dish out to his squad, I feel that the following would fix Limbo.

There are currently no advantages for you or allies to fight inside of the Rift state other than the very low amount of energy recovery while inside. I think that adding more aspects to the Rift plane itself would be able to fix the majority of Limbo's problems. Something along the lines of slowing, confusion, lowered enemy stats, etc. Currently, fighting enemies inside of the Rift effectively ends up being the same as if nothing happened, even with Rift Surge active it's only amplifies damage by 1.5x. With the way Limbo is now, I can't help but just see him as a less effective Frost. I want Limbo to be fixed before he ends up as a gimmick frame, the same fate that Nekros fell to. Discuss please.

 

(Many points, some unsaid here, came from this thread which was moved to Players helping Players for some reason: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/329254-how-are-limbos-skills-useful/ )

I like your points and all proposed changes. Limbo needs this. I have used him extensively and i love him but he really needs this. And the ability to toggle catacylsm and banish

[CephalonShy]

Who came up with Banish? I saw at least two limbos today, trolling the $%^& of their own team on sechura,

[Ibro156]

Who came up with Banish? I saw at least two limbos today, trolling the $%^& of their own team on sechura,

same >_<

[OverlordMcGeek]

Who came up with Banish? I saw at least two limbos today, trolling the $%^& of their own team on sechura,

yeah the trolling is because of my psa earlier:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/329475-for-those-who-dont-know-you-can-troll-like-a-beast-with-limbo/

 

i regret nothing

[Gahrzerkire]

hahahaha i have had a limbo since the moment he came out. I only send someone to the rift if i am sick of them OPin everything. I.E mirages with fugging ogrises.

[GreyEnneract]

Any proposed ability changes?

[EchoesOfRain]

I'd like to see Rift Surge deal a decent DoT to enemies within the Rift, along with buffing ally damage. That would also help out Cataclysm I think.

 

 

Also, about the visuals...If Banished enemies seemed to be "phased out" or "faded", I think it would help with readability. I see allies trying to hit banished enemies and being confused why they do 0 damage. Just adding a glow to the enemies does not help.

 

Can we also tone down the Cataclysm visuals a bit too? I've yet to see another Limbo use Cataclysm, but mine is pretty large, and lasts a good 45 seconds. Being inside, the bright swirls, the strobing screen overlay, the blur of looking out from inside, and the bright glowing enemies is a bit painful to the eye

[Aspari]

Rift Surge HAS to go. What I suggest to do is place Cataclysm in Rift Surger's place and add a new fourth ability. I don't have a suggestion for the fourth one.

[Draciusen]

Banish: Remove the ability for it to be casted on teammates.

 

Rift Walk: Here's the big mechanic change:

- Leave a dimensional portal where Limbo casted it, allowing allies to interact with it and enter/exit at will.

- Remove Limbo's ability to cancel Rift Walk early, recasting it will now move the portal to his current location and refresh the duration (Like Decoy)

- Change the ability augment for Banish (That heals allies) to this one. Oh look, now he has a healing fountain.

 

Rift Surge: Oh my god this ability is so expensive and useless it hurts. If they really want it to cost that much energy, increase the damage multiplier to 3.0x at base, stun every enemy for 2-3 seconds, and nullify their armor for the duration. There, now it's an ability you'll use when you want to annihilate everything in a breeze with some set-up. Still could do with a power cost reduction to 50.

 

Cataclysm: Entering and exiting the rift staggers enemies and inflicts a radiation proc.

 

Now you can start Banishing difficult enemies to the rift, spawn a portal that allows your allies to deal with them and exit as they please, and you can make their life easier by making every enemy in the rift shred like paper. Or you can cast Cataclysm and Rift Surge, CCing everything in that bubble and make them die instantly if you so much as breathe on them.

 

My question is if the Rift Surge is a continuous effect. Let's say you begin with casting Rift Surge, then start banishing enemies to the rift. Will they have the damage multiplier on them for being there while Rift Surge is in place, or is it Accelerant in nature?

Edited October 25, 2014 by Draciusen

[GreyEnneract]

I'd like to see Rift Surge deal a decent DoT to enemies within the Rift, along with buffing ally damage. That would also help out Cataclysm I think.

 

 

Also, about the visuals...If Banished enemies seemed to be "phased out" or "faded", I think it would help with readability. I see allies trying to hit banished enemies and being confused why they do 0 damage. Just adding a glow to the enemies does not help.

 

Can we also tone down the Cataclysm visuals a bit too? I've yet to see another Limbo use Cataclysm, but mine is pretty large, and lasts a good 45 seconds. Being inside, the bright swirls, the strobing screen overlay, the blur of looking out from inside, and the bright glowing enemies is a bit painful to the eye

I like your idea for the DoT, however still not having any type of CC on the enemies in the rift is still not great.

The DoT would have to do insane damage to be worth it, otherwise people would just use Ember.

[GreyEnneract]

Banish: Remove the ability for it to be casted on teammates.

 

Rift Walk: Here's the big mechanic change:

- Leave a dimensional portal where Limbo casted it, allowing allies to interact with it and enter/exit at will.

- Remove Limbo's ability to cancel Rift Walk early, recasting it will now move the portal to his current location and refresh the duration (Like Decoy)

- Change the ability augment for Banish (That heals allies) to this one. Oh look, now he has a healing fountain.

 

Rift Surge: Oh my god this ability is so expensive and useless it hurts. If they really want it to cost that much energy, increase the damage multiplier to 3.0x at base, stun every enemy for 2-3 seconds, and nullify their armor for the duration. There, now it's an ability you'll use when you want to annihilate everything in a breeze with some set-up. Still could do with a power cost reduction to 50.

 

Cataclysm: Entering and exiting the rift staggers enemies and inflicts a radiation proc.

 

Now you can start Banishing difficult enemies to the rift, spawn a portal that allows your allies to deal with them and exit as they please, and you can make their life easier by making every enemy in the rift shred like paper. Or you can cast Cataclysm and Rift Surge, CCing everything in that bubble and make them die instantly if you so much as breathe on them.

 

My question is if the Rift Surge is a continuous effect. Let's say you begin with casting Rift Surge, then start banishing enemies to the rift. Will they have the damage multiplier on them for being there while Rift Surge is in place, or is it Accelerant in nature?

Nice Rift Walk idea.

Rift Surge is crazy expensive, you're right.

That damage multiplier is honestly, garbage.

Rift Surge only amplifies damage on enemies already in the Rift, you can't use Rift Surge, and then have Banish and Cata do more damage.. As long as it is on, all Rifted enemies take more damage.

[VampirePirate]

<snip>

Totally agree and you made some really good points.  I think what would solve most of the problem is that the 2nd ability affects the entire team rather than just Limbo alone.  That, with the ability to pick up items and such, would make it easier to use by the player and easier to deal with by the teams members.  The 1st ability being able to select team members, would not be necessary in this case and could perhaps be used in a different fashion for banishing enemies.  Also it think the power cost for Limbo's powers should be cheaper, because he is apparently designed to constantly use his powers.

 

As for the forth power, it probably would be nice to have a stasis effect on the enemies.  Stopping them in their tracks and prevent them from attacking.  Though that might be overdoing it.

Edited October 25, 2014 by VampirePirate

[Draciusen]

Nice Rift Walk idea.

Rift Surge is crazy expensive, you're right.

That damage multiplier is honestly, garbage.

Rift Surge only amplifies damage on enemies already in the Rift, you can't use Rift Surge, and then have Banish and Cata do more damage.. As long as it is on, all Rifted enemies take more damage.

 

I didn't mean the damage of the abilities, I meant as more of like how Rift Surge works.

 

For example, you Banish an enemy and Rift Walk, then Rift Surge and start attacking them (Man that's a lot of work and a lot of wasted energy). You deal increased damage to them because of the multiplier from Rift Surge

 

Now, if you Banish another enemy, will they also get a damage multiplier on them because Rift Surge is still going on? Or is it like Accelerant/Sonar and only effects enemies currently in the Rift at that time?

 

If it works like Accelerant, I'll have to suggest that Rift Surge continuously amplifies damage to any enemy in the rift regardless if they were there or not in the first place when it was casted, which could make him more useful. The stun would only apply to enemies already in the rift though.

[Yinkuji]

Who came up with Banish? I saw at least two limbos today, trolling the $%^& of their own team on sechura,

It's funny because even Limbo isn't safe from another Limbo. Yesterday I used Rift Walk to go into the rift so I could draw all the aggro of the enemies and "tank" them without taking any damage. Basically I was a better version of Saryn's Molt and Loki's Decoy. 

 

Then comes the ally Limbo and he casts Cataclysm.That instantly put all the enemies who were trying to attack me in the rift with me and I instantly died. GG. lol

[GreyEnneract]

Totally agree and you made some really good points.  I think what would solve most of the problem is that the 2nd ability affects the entire team rather than just Limbo alone.  That, with the ability to pick up items and such, would make it easier to use by the player and easier to deal with by the teams members.  The 1st ability being able to select team members, would not be necessary in this case and could perhaps be used in a different fashion for banishing enemies.  Also it think the power cost for Limbo's powers should be cheaper, because he is apparently designed to constantly use his powers.

 

As for the forth power, it probably would be nice to have a stasis effect on the enemies.  Stopping them in their tracks and prevent them from attacking.  Though that might be overdoing it.

I disagree with Rift Walk affecting the team, he already has a bit too much control over his allies.

 

I didn't mean the damage of the abilities, I meant as more of like how Rift Surge works.

 

For example, you Banish an enemy and Rift Walk, then Rift Surge and start attacking them (Man that's a lot of work and a lot of wasted energy). You deal increased damage to them because of the multiplier from Rift Surge

 

Now, if you Banish another enemy, will they also get a damage multiplier on them because Rift Surge is still going on? Or is it like Accelerant/Sonar and only effects enemies currently in the Rift at that time?

 

If it works like Accelerant, I'll have to suggest that Rift Surge continuously amplifies damage to any enemy in the rift regardless if they were there or not in the first place when it was casted, which could make him more useful. The stun would only apply to enemies already in the rift though.

Rift Surge works in the way that, if it's on, all Rifted enemies take more damage, if it's off, it's off.

It has no range limit either.

[EchoesOfRain]

I disagree with Rift Walk affecting the team, he already has a bit too much control over his allies.

 

I think his goal was to create a way for allies to enter and exit the Rift at will, rather than being Banished randomly and becoming useless until the timer runs out.

[GreyEnneract]

I think his goal was to create a way for allies to enter and exit the Rift at will, rather than being Banished randomly and becoming useless until the timer runs out.

Then it would be better to use Draciusen's idea.

[Miish.]

Any proposed ability changes?

 I like limbo but allies should be able to leave your void of their own free will somehow. I do think his 3rd ability needs to be an aoe banish to hit a group or banish needs to be aoe.

Edited October 25, 2014 by slay3214

[ADDgamer45]

 I like limbo but allies should be able to leave your void of their own free will somehow. I do think his 3rd ability needs to be an aoe banish to hit a group or banish needs to be aoe.

I think there should be a universal way to drop out of allies "buffs" because i would like a way to drop out of volt's speed boost too. Limbo does need a banish aoe that you can't just walk out of.

[Terryhm]

Remove this frame from the game.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Terryhm

[GreyEnneract]

Remove this frame from the game.

Something more productive, rather than this.

[VampirePirate]

Could just remove the ability to affect allies all together.  Then when 4th is cast, allies entering it can damage whatever enemy enters it.  1st ability won't tag allies anymore either.  Then the whole so-called trolling thing will not be a problem.

[DamnedNOOB]

Could just remove the ability to affect allies all together.  Then when 4th is cast, allies entering it can damage whatever enemy enters it.  1st ability won't tag allies anymore either.  Then the whole so-called trolling thing will not be a problem.

allies can dmg everything in it. learn something about the things u wanna talk about first. please.

 

first skill is the ability to shoot inside the bubble from outside whilst being invincible

 

I think there should be a universal way to drop out of allies "buffs" because i would like a way to drop out of volt's speed boost too. Limbo does need a banish aoe that you can't just walk out of.

THIS. Please

Edited October 25, 2014 by DamnedNOOB

[GreyEnneract]

allies can dmg everything in it. learn something about the things u wanna talk about first. please.

 

first skill is the ability to shoot inside the bubble from outside whilst being invincible

 

THIS. Please

So far I like Draciusen's idea the most, putting up a sort of Wormhole that lets allies and yourself pass into the rift and vice versa.