Why Does Archwing Even Exist?

[Garuger]

I dont really like and neither do i hate it . Personally it is like Kubrows you built it have fun with few missions and then never use it again

[Splatter_Puppet]

I'm having fun with it for now, and I'm sure within the next few months we will see all sorts of crazy new weapons and archwings being released, and probably a few new mission types, and I'll have some fun with those too.

 

However, I really don't see this game mode becoming a primary focus. Just like, nightmare missions, Orokin derelict missions, kubrows, farming Prosecutors for nav components to play a locked boss fight, Dark Sectors, and probably syndicates eventually, it's just something that someone thought of and they said: "Hey that sounds awesome! Let's put it in!" And they did, and eventually it will be put on the back burner as another aspect to the game that can be played or not played depending on who likes it, with some content coming out in drips and drabs.

 

I'm sure the next event will most likely be an archwing event, but after that, we will probably not see too many "major" archwing missions aside from getting Limbo.

[Loveshack]

The killing balloons, space-eggs, and osprays looks boring as balls.  Maybe playing it is better?

[Zanukacola]

In the end, all of which you have said in this thread don't matter to no one. If people want it, they get it and no one is asking to toss soccer balls. So it's really about what fun and what make sense though many things don't. Everything you mentioned all sounds boring especially compared to Archwing.

 

And rather take a wait and see approach, you are protesting against something that is new. 

 

thus far each update has been an improvement and adding the usual stuff like tilesets, weapons, warframes, etc. So something like Archwing is a welcome change. It should be long before something as much as a blast as Archwing comes along, until then, enjoy all the improvements. At least there is something else to do other than to grind the same non Archwing tilesets over and over again. Still have to grind with Archwing, but it's a brand new way to grind and a breath of fresh air so in the end, improvements to core gameplay can take a backseat this update.

 

It may or may not feel like Warframe, but in the end, who cares, it's a blast. Core gameplay elements can wait, they take far too long anyway.

 

So accept the Archwing and remember, the community knows best, but NOT everyone in the community does. And if they want Archwing or any other game changer, then they shall have it regardless of core game mechanics because this game is for them.

 

And the Dev team shall have their way with their vision for the game since it is their game.

Sorry, what? You say that my post doesn't matter to anyone then claim that the community will get what it wants? I wasn't aware that expressing a dissenting viewpoint makes me not the 'community'.

 

And how do you know if their resources are limited? Did you ask them? They seem to have a XONE and PS4 division raking in a lot of cash, they can always hire more people. Did you notice the new faces and interns popping up in the forums?

 

They are hiring. They are expanding. They are getting bigger. So it's time to stop thinking they are small time developers and have limited resources. Look what happened with Minecraft developers.

 

At this point, you're perhaps thinking they shall be bought by Perfect World seeing as Mahjong was sold to Microsoft.

It's certainly possible that DE is now large enough to tackle this without cutting the pace on core game improvements, but ultimately any time/money invested in AW could just as well be invested in *anything else*. As long as AW remains detached from core gameplay, I would prefer that those resources be invested in expanding or enhancing normal Warframe gameplay.

 

I'm having fun with it for now, and I'm sure within the next few months we will see all sorts of crazy new weapons and archwings being released, and probably a few new mission types, and I'll have some fun with those too.

 

However, I really don't see this game mode becoming a primary focus. Just like, nightmare missions, Orokin derelict missions, kubrows, farming Prosecutors for nav components to play a locked boss fight, Dark Sectors, and probably syndicates eventually, it's just something that someone thought of and they said: "Hey that sounds awesome! Let's put it in!" And they did, and eventually it will be put on the back burner as another aspect to the game that can be played or not played depending on who likes it, with some content coming out in drips and drabs.

 

I'm sure the next event will most likely be an archwing event, but after that, we will probably not see too many "major" archwing missions aside from getting Limbo.

The major reason why I'm protesting AW so strongly is because I see it as a commitment of DE's resources that is significantly greater than any of the additions you mentioned. It combines new mission types, new tilesets, new 'warframes', a new control schematic, and several new weapon classes. This is a huge number of 'firsts' in one event. The current incomplete state of AW (that others have observed) suggests that its feature pool is going to be filled out rather than abandoned; this implies, in my mind, a long term commitment by DE to supporting this new mode. I view that commitment as being made at the expense of  primary gameplay.

[Judopunch]

You create what is basically a minigame that renders a huge amount of the existing Warframe framework useless; the minimap becomes confusing at best or outright misleading, the existing AI is useless, a new set of tilesets is used that is of far lower quality than the existing ones. The new gameplay mode fails to integrate any of the existing content: your guns, your melee weapons, even your warframes themselves are all dead weight in the vacuum of space. Nope, you have to use a totally new pool of content, with a grand total of 2 melee weapons, 2 guns, and 2 archwings. 

 

I feel somewhat similar. 

 

Archwing is a ton of fun, but I dislike how ALL of my progress in the game has been thrown out. I was very dissapointed when I found out that there is virtually 0 crossover between Archwing and Warframe. They may as well be two separate games.

 

 

I'm having fun with it for now, and I'm sure within the next few months we will see all sorts of crazy new weapons and archwings being released, and probably a few new mission types, and I'll have some fun with those too.

 

However, I really don't see this game mode becoming a primary focus. Just like, nightmare missions, Orokin derelict missions, kubrows, farming Prosecutors for nav components to play a locked boss fight, Dark Sectors, and probably syndicates eventually, it's just something that someone thought of and they said: "Hey that sounds awesome! Let's put it in!" And they did, and eventually it will be put on the back burner as another aspect to the game that can be played or not played depending on who likes it, with some content coming out in drips and drabs.

 

I'm sure the next event will most likely be an archwing event, but after that, we will probably not see too many "major" archwing missions aside from getting Limbo.

 

But the difference is, that in all your aforementioned examples you don't need a completely new war-frame, weapon, and melee in order to join in.

 

 

I would like to see mixed missions, that go from exterior to interior to exterior to interior, for example. That would be interesting. Or if you could blow out a window, fly out side, blow out another window to come back in.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Judopunch

[Yorinar]

I love Archwing.  I love the gameplay.  It brings something fresh to Warframe that breathes new life into a game that was growing dull for me.  And it maintains the fun of blowing stuff up, shooting baddies, and slicing things to bits that you expect from the game.

 

But you are right in part, OP.  At the moment, the game mode offers no reason for anyone to play it (except getting Limbo).  The only thing you can get with it are mods for .. your archwing (also crap mods as rewards for interception and other archwing parts).  So if you don't want to play Archwing, the only reason you have to is for Limbo.  And even then you can trade proof fragments, so beyond crafting your Archwing, you don't have to actually fly it.

 

That said, I hope the resource drops improve (DESteve mentioned "mining" aka blowing up rocks), and the mission rewards are revamped so that it's as worthwhile playing an Archwing mission as it is a regular one.

 

Now for my point.

 

Warframe thrives on keeping players engaged.  The heart of the game is the same no matter what you are doing.  You run towards an objective, you shoot, you slash.  Give us new weapons, give us new warframes, give us new maps, give us new enemies.  The core stays the same and it will wear thin once you have played long enough.  Without options for breaking up the core mechanics, no amount of new content can remove your boredom.  By introducing alternative styles of gameplay, you can switch between the two and that can provide a huge life extension to the game, more than just the sum of its parts.  

 

Imagine a job in which you do only one thing, day in, day out (hard, right?).  Now imagine how glad you were when you got to do something else for a little while.  

[carbondragon]

I don't get it. Warframe is a good game. You've got a large, varied selection of guns. A group of characters (warframes) with powers diverse enough to cater to just about any kind of player. Warframe as a game is better than its ever been.

 

So why on earth would you introduce archwing? You create what is basically a minigame that renders a huge amount of the existing Warframe framework useless; the minimap becomes confusing at best or outright misleading, the existing AI is useless, a new set of tilesets is used that is of far lower quality than the existing ones. The new gameplay mode fails to integrate any of the existing content: your guns, your melee weapons, even your warframes themselves are all dead weight in the vacuum of space. Nope, you have to use a totally new pool of content, with a grand total of 2 melee weapons, 2 guns, and 2 archwings. 

 

I know that the first response I'm going to get here is going to be "well if you don't like archwing then don't use it."

 

I'll put aside the fact that Limbo is gated behind Archwing, and most likely future content will be too. 

No, my main problem is that its evident that DE is putting a serious effort into this. They created totally new tilesets. They implemented a new set of mods. They designed the equivalent of two new warframes. And as they've done this much already, they're practically obligated to continue putting out content for Archwing. And guess what? That content is going to come at the expense of content for the main game.

 

Archwing is a tumor. Warframe is a great game, but DE is kneecapping themselves by committing to this colossal waste of resources that contributes nothing to the core Warframe experience. I get that it's 'cool'. I agree, space ninjas flying IS cool. But why introduce this now? I'm tempted to cynically say that this whole new content pool is introduced to make veteran players start fresh (and buy plat) while offering new players a shiny new gimmick to be lured in by. I don't presume to know what motivates the developers, however, so I'm not going to vilify them unnecessarily.

 

Regardless, Archwing is a gimmick. When the dust settles and the novelty wears off, players are going to realize that the Archwing mode is inferior in every way to normal gameplay. Archwing is going to be revealed as what it truly is: a huge mistake.

 

DE is heading into a field they know nothing about and siphoning resources from something they're already doing very well. And what have we gained? A sh**ty minigame that's only going to drag down the Warframe we know and love.

 

I don't think this post is going to make a difference at all or that anyone from DE will read it, but I really want to know:

Why did this get greenlighted?

 

tl;dr: Archwing is a waste of DE's time and resources that adds nothing to the core values of the game

 

In total agreement with you here. I feel it's totally unnecessary as a whole. It feels like DE did what Bungee would do if they made Warthog racing in Halo a thing. We have cars, they must race! We have space ninjas with superpowers, they must fly!

 

It just seems like...such a quantum leap in gameplay (I haven't gotten it yet, only getting it for Limbo and whatever future content they lock inside it) that didn't need to happen. You don't randomly introduce this kind of a jump in mechanics without building a bridge in between.

 

As far as the arguments about "fun" go...

If I claim that I am having fun by trolling players as Loki and keeping them in the starting room of a boss map, that is the same defense that you've giving for DE locking content behind some people's fun. In order for them to progress, I have to stop having fun. It's literally the exact same thing, except DE can force it on us outright, whereas we can just quit out of my "fun".

Edited October 27, 2014 by carbondragon

[LascarCapable]

I guess it's time to calm down a bit. Please avoid all kind of agressive comments. You're free to give your opinion, but not to insult others.

[Jinryusai]

Sorry, what? You say that my post doesn't matter to anyone then claim that the community will get what it wants? I wasn't aware that expressing a dissenting viewpoint makes me not the 'community'.

I meant Majority, although there is no knowing what the majority want w/o an in game poll, but the loudest may get their ways.

[Jinryusai]

I would like to see mixed missions, that go from exterior to interior to exterior to interior, for example. That would be interesting. Or if you could blow out a window, fly out side, blow out another window to come back in.

With that said invasion needs that Archwing mix. It's simply perfect for it and same with Sabotage and perhaps other game modes. But there should always be those pure Archwing nodes.

 

And also being able to land by holding down X while on the ground in those nodes with Archwing in the mix.

 

So the Dev team better consider those cross overs, but keep those pure Archwing nodes for those "Warframe" Archwing builds.

 

Hell, you notice the defense pod moving from place to place, why not have the enemy trigger an explosion that sends the pod out into space and continue defense via Archwing and perhaps get back to a ship.

 

Plenty of opportunities.

[TDefton]

Archwing is an amazing update to the game that is aimed toward the new and veteran players. It adds to the depth of the game and gives everyone a new realm to explore. Who knows, maybe in the future they will merge Archwing with normal foot gamemodes to have awesome long missions. I would love that.

[Zanukacola]

 

Now for my point.

 

Warframe thrives on keeping players engaged.  The heart of the game is the same no matter what you are doing.  You run towards an objective, you shoot, you slash.  Give us new weapons, give us new warframes, give us new maps, give us new enemies.  The core stays the same and it will wear thin once you have played long enough.  Without options for breaking up the core mechanics, no amount of new content can remove your boredom.  By introducing alternative styles of gameplay, you can switch between the two and that can provide a huge life extension to the game, more than just the sum of its parts.  

 

Imagine a job in which you do only one thing, day in, day out (hard, right?).  Now imagine how glad you were when you got to do something else for a little while.  

The need to maintain player engagement is definitely significant. I also agree that enhancing diversity is critical to the long-term survival of the game. Where I differ, however, is in the belief that adding a very different type of gameplay supports those objectives. I argue that the simple principles at the heart of Warframe (shoot, slash, objectives, and, I would add, upgrade stuff) are what gives the game its strength; after all, the vast majority of the player base was attracted to Warframe without AW. 

 

If Warframe is truly growing stale on account of its core mechanics being flawed (I won't opine on this), then I would assume the solution would be to re-examine the gameplay at a fundamental level. If that assumption stands, then adding alternative gameplay types is a band-aid solution at best. To add another analogy for this hypothetical: if a tree's core is rotten, then no amount of water and sun can bring it back to life.

 

My concern, at any rate, is that branching into alternatives without bridging the gap between the old and the new will only serve to weaken the core gameplay mechanics. After all, the longevity of AW as a mode is largely untested, whereas 'classic warframe' has been around for over a year now and retains significant interest.

 

 

With that said invasion needs that Archwing mix. It's simply perfect for it and same with Sabotage and perhaps other game modes. But there should always be those pure Archwing nodes.

 

And also being able to land by holding down X while on the ground in those nodes with Archwing in the mix.

 

So the Dev team better consider those cross overs, but keep those pure Archwing nodes for those "Warframe" Archwing builds.

 

Hell, you notice the defense pod moving from place to place, why not have the enemy trigger an explosion that sends the pod out into space and continue defense via Archwing and perhaps get back to a ship.

 

Plenty of opportunities.

Agreed on all counts. Dynamic interplay between normal and AW gameplay would definitely justify it as a mechanic.

[MichaelSD]

I voice the original poster. I do not see much point in Archwing. I understand the reason why it was introduced, but it has nothing to do with the core game. For me it is a cheap tack on, which I will try to avoid as much as possible. But that is just me.

Edited October 27, 2014 by MichaelSD

[Monolake]

Because more variety and ground start for everyone, so people who have everything will need to farm and level up bunch of new gear/mods, we will have a reason to play again (new gameplay, new goals and rewards)

 

The problem is that its a seriously large addition that requires lots of development time, its a risk.

 

Also while its a completely new game mode with new equipment,  I don't see any though put into the mods design, its the same mods again, nothing interesting or original, which is really strange and disappointing. (didnt check all the archwing mods, maybe there is something new too, but so far its duplicates of normal mods)

[Judopunch]

With that said invasion needs that Archwing mix. It's simply perfect for it and same with Sabotage and perhaps other game modes. But there should always be those pure Archwing nodes.

 

And also being able to land by holding down X while on the ground in those nodes with Archwing in the mix.

 

So the Dev team better consider those cross overs, but keep those pure Archwing nodes for those "Warframe" Archwing builds.

 

Hell, you notice the defense pod moving from place to place, why not have the enemy trigger an explosion that sends the pod out into space and continue defense via Archwing and perhaps get back to a ship.

 

Plenty of opportunities.

Absolutely. Right now it just feels like.... like its one more thing to grind. But I hope that this is because they are planing on more crossover, and this is just the bare-bones right now.

 

Its fun as heck. Its just.... fulfilling because all of my previous investment is basically moot.

[Haden56]

The major reason why I'm protesting AW so strongly is because I see it as a commitment of DE's resources that is significantly greater than any of the additions you mentioned. It combines new mission types, new tilesets, new 'warframes', a new control schematic, and several new weapon classes. This is a huge number of 'firsts' in one event. The current incomplete state of AW (that others have observed) suggests that its feature pool is going to be filled out rather than abandoned; this implies, in my mind, a long term commitment by DE to supporting this new mode. I view that commitment as being made at the expense of  primary gameplay.

You say that DE will be committed solely on Wings now because they're the new things and stop focusing on the game itself. Have you possibly missed out on the other features? Yes some might agree that Wings-mode or the update overall is a disaster but that won't stop at least 75% of the community from liking it. Lets face it, if DE just kept fixing bugs and added a mode like Excavation every few months, it would get boring. SOOO, they make a brand new mode, that takes the normal game, and changes it albeit almost completely. With the addition of Wings, they now have two versions of the game to work with.

 

Archwings aren't gonna be the main focus of DE, it's an addition to the game, so instead they'll not only commit to Wings-mode, but to the game overall. They fixed bugs and made changes with the past few hotfixes, and with the addition of Syndicate mods, they help enhance each frame and give power to weaker weapons.

 

P.S. I call the Archwings just Wings, to me it sounds cooler and I don't know why the word Arch is there.

[(PSN)V3RM1THRAX]

I still would of liked a new star system to explore with a new enemy race to fight

[Wyzilla]

Probably because it's fun.

In what way is just pressing E and instantly locking onto enemies and dropping them any definition of "fun". If you want a fun dogfight, games like Sturmovik, X-Wing, War Thunder, etc provide a far superior dogfighting experience that requires actual skill instead of mashing E. After playing my first Archwing mission I instantly lost all interest and found it among the most boring things I've ever done in Warframe.

 

All the Archwing fulfills as a role is a shallow gimmick meant to keep vets curious and grinding away (and probalby spending plat) as well as encouraging new players to grind and spend plat. No different then Kubrows. Plus the gameplay for Archwings is horrendously mediocre and there are many titles on the market that far exceed DE's attempt at space combat, although at least DE can plead this being their first experience. But all the Archwing feels like is a very shallow, boring version of the Japanese fighter gunner games where players move through a 3d environment positively filled with projectiles. Which also do what Warframe's Archwing does, only with a lot more experience, skill required, and at less of an expense if you consider time a currency.

 

It's not really all that "radical divergence". Honestly, it's quite a bit like playing a high-efficiency zephyr.

 

Also, soccer is only highly-popular in countries that don't understand football. In countries that understand football, it's generally ignored, as football, which involves throwing AND kicking, is a far superior sport.

Not to enter a sport debate here, but in virtually ever single nation other then America, soccer/football is the most popular sport. It is insanely self-centered to believe that any large portion of the world practices American Football over Soccer. This is also extremely obvious during the World Cup, where virtually all of Europe, Asia, and South America are glued to their TV's.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Wyzilla

[fatpig84]

Am I the only one who doesn't rely too much of E E E E in Archwing interceptions ?

[Wyzilla]

Am I the only one who doesn't rely too much of E E E E in Archwing interceptions ?

There's no point when it's the most effective thing to do and has absolutely zero detriment, and often is actually even forced upon you. Darting forward in melee animations helps dodge enemy fire temporarily.

 

But the Archwing is in need of a massive overhaul. The first thing I'd suggest though is a massive increase of the game's speed. Like your basic drifting speed being the same as the current boost speed. Right now the gameplay speed of Archwing missions feels like just walking around normally in an extermination mission without running or coptering.

[vaugahn]

Am I the only one who doesn't rely too much of E E E E in Archwing interceptions ?

 

Nah. Melee is for casuals.

 

I actually really like the gun. I expected it to have travel time, but since it's hitscan it's surprisingly easy to hit stuff with. Also it looks awesome.

 

I haven't tried the Corvas yet, but I'm hoping that one will be nice as well.

[Zanukacola]

You say that DE will be committed solely on Wings now because they're the new things and stop focusing on the game itself. Have you possibly missed out on the other features? Yes some might agree that Wings-mode or the update overall is a disaster but that won't stop at least 75% of the community from liking it. Lets face it, if DE just kept fixing bugs and added a mode like Excavation every few months, it would get boring. SOOO, they make a brand new mode, that takes the normal game, and changes it albeit almost completely. With the addition of Wings, they now have two versions of the game to work with.

 

Archwings aren't gonna be the main focus of DE, it's an addition to the game, so instead they'll not only commit to Wings-mode, but to the game overall. They fixed bugs and made changes with the past few hotfixes, and with the addition of Syndicate mods, they help enhance each frame and give power to weaker weapons.

 

P.S. I call the Archwings just Wings, to me it sounds cooler and I don't know why the word Arch is there.

No, I don't expect DE to drop everything to solely develop Archwing. Updates for the core game will continue trickling in. 

It's clear, however, that the current state of AW demands A LOT more work, and whatever work that goes into improving it would be better spent improving core gameplay. 

 

I don't see any reason why DE should redirect even the smallest amount of resources to do something that other games do far better, when Warframe already has a niche in which it excels. 

 

Now, if we were to see AW become a part of normal missions, maybe with short segments of fast paced space travel and combat (think Star Trek into Darkness), then it could do a great job of spicing up the shooting and slashing. But it isn't and shouldn't be strong enough to stand as its own game mode.

[Letter13]

In what way is just pressing E and instantly locking onto enemies and dropping them any definition of "fun".

Sorry, but are you trying to tell me what I should and shouldn't find fun?

 

That's a very closed-minded way of thinking there bud. I'm simply saying that some people find it to be fun. Not that everyone needs to find it fun and if they don't they're wrong. People are welcome to think what they want. I'm simply voicing my own opinion.

 

So please, don't try to force your opinion on me. I respect that you don't find it fun. Now please respect that I and many others do find it fun. Cheers.

[fatpig84]

There's no point when it's the most effective thing to do and has absolutely zero detriment, and often is actually even forced upon you. Darting forward in melee animations helps dodge enemy fire temporarily.

 

But the Archwing is in need of a massive overhaul. The first thing I'd suggest though is a massive increase of the game's speed. Like your basic drifting speed being the same as the current boost speed. Right now the gameplay speed of Archwing missions feels like just walking around normally in an extermination mission without running or coptering.

 

The gun is hit scan and if well modded, can burst down targets in less than 1 second.

Which is often less time than you looking cool and doing that melee animation which can take 2 seconds or way more if you fail to 1 hit the target.

 

In fact the first suit number 4 is designed to work best with a good gun, since you stun and repel everyone in a radius then hose em down with dakka. In fact melee will be too slow and often throw you off tower capturing range, that is one of the first things I learn when I was doing interceptions.

 

 

Nah. Melee is for casuals.

 

I actually really like the gun. I expected it to have travel time, but since it's hitscan it's surprisingly easy to hit stuff with. Also it looks awesome.

 

I haven't tried the Corvas yet, but I'm hoping that one will be nice as well.

 

I won't call them as casual, some people like "cut scene" style attacks after all (like Ash 4 users) :p

Edited October 28, 2014 by fatpig84

[Eldnacpeek]

Why did this get greenlighted?

 

*GREENLIT