Line Of Sight Is Not A Nerf.

[RiouHotaru]

1) Better timing - use it, when enemies in LoS. If they are in Los, they can hit and kill you. If you don't have support from CC frame, there is no "timing".

2) Why should i use mod for normal using of my ult? I can just bring another from with normal "press 4 to win" like Saryn or Rhino.

3) Catch a LoS, Catch a shot, Die. That's how T4 or 50+lvl works

 

Shield Polarize is the scalling only power. Pull is utility tool, Crush is worthless. You aren't play Mag on high levels, then Crush isn't working - what's why you can't see a nerf.

 

2) Because there are other frames with excessively long animation times that have the same problem.  Excalibur is not unique in this concern.

3) Again, see my first post, at the point in time where shots are going to be instantly popping you, you wouldn't be using Radial Javelin in the first place.  You'd be spamming Radial Blind instead.

 

I have two options.

 

One is to insult you and tell you you really have no idea what you're talking about, the other is to politely explain that you're actually wrong.

 

I'll choose the latter and try being polite.

 

It's like this. I'll talk about it from the perspective of normal gameplay, not Viver.

 

In 3D action games with AoE abilities, line of sight is a mechanic that is inherently risky.

 

It requires you to see your enemies, which in turn means that your enemies see you.

 

Now, try looking at what Mag and Excalibur have for their base stats and their skills.

 

Mag's Shield Polarize is essentially a support mechanic that can(but doesn't have to) disrupt enemy shields.

Mag is a Magnetic mage, a caster frame. She likes to spam her abilities and Shield Polarize was beneficial for that in normal gameplay.

Logical question #1: How does magnetism work?

It sure as hell doesn't require line of sight to anything. Bring a large enough magnet and you can pull a truck over a wall with it, without seeing it.

In any case, in order to damage enemies with Shield Polarize now, she has to stand out of cover. It becomes a skill that puts her into danger instead of making her safer. The original design of her skill was to disrupt enemies while restoring shields for your team.

It simply does not do that anymore because the change on that skill forces Mag to jump in and risk getting shot to bits.

No experienced Warframe player will EVER do that.

 

Excalibur's Javelin used to be a skill that no one used because it required Excalibur to stand in the middle of a group of enemies for maximum effectiveness. It was a blind-fire skill that didn't exactly require line of sight, but you still had to be in a position where all the enemies you wanted to hit saw you too. It didn't go through doors or walls. It hit stuff in a circle around you and that was it.

Then DE changed that so it hit everything in a radius around him, regardless if it was behind a wall or not, as well as adding a short stun period for enemies if they survived his ult. And that was great and made Excalibur finally strong enough to be useful in something like long survival missions or generally high level content.

With this latest change, Excalibur now requires line of sight to hit enemies. Think about that for a second.

Although the ability is no longer blind-fire, Excal still has to position himself in such a way that he can be attacked. And unlike Mag, the casting time on his ult is much longer, so he's exposed to gunfire from any enemies that were behind cover at that point.

Excal dies in a second in high level content. Pure and simple.

Now, think about that skill for a minute. His "new" ult has a stun. It's his "oh S#&$!" button that he uses to disable enemies around him for a time, either for a counterattack or an escape. He uses that WHEN he's in trouble. But with the line of sight changes, now he has to stand where enemies see him to hit them, it's a skill that actually PUTS him INTO trouble.

 

Both of these points are multiplied by the fact that DE recently did some changes to the way enemies aim and now all ranged enemies have much higher accuracy.

 

In other words - using Mag or Excalibur in higher level Grineer missions is a literal death sentence. If you try using Shield Polarize or Javelin, you die. No ifs or buts, you get shot to pieces with perfect accuracy. That goes for anything with a hitscan weapon actually.

 

You see, DE maybe nerfed those Warframes because they were popular in farming Viver...

 

But they failed to consider that they also gutted them and made them almost useless in mid-high level content now. It's a horrible nerf. What they should've done is nerf Viver or completely remove it from the star chart until they find a proper solution.

 

Because nerfing those 3 frames did NOTHING for Viver. Players have already replaced them with Saryn, Volt and others.

 

Warframes are just tools for farming and Viver is the farm. DE needs to burn the farm, not break the tools.

 

Again, I feel people didn't read the first post, you have five seconds of "memory" when LoS is broken where abilities will still hit enemies.  So it's possible to see a group of enemies, immediately get behind cover, press 4, and STILL hit enemies.  And again, if being exposed even for a second means you're going to get dropped?  You're not using RJ in the first place.

 

I'd consider the pre-LoS state to be intended, as Radial Javalin was intentionally buffed to target all enemies without cap in the radius. Just because the frame later became the focus of 4 mashing doesn't change their intention when they made that buff. It's not listed under fixes for a reason, because that previous state wasn't unintentional.

 

It still doesn't have a target cap.  If I have 20+ enemies in my Line of Sight, that's how many I would hit with the ability.  The target cap still doesn't exist.  Theoretically, as long as LoS is met, I can hit everything.  Let's not forget that Excal's ult has one of the largest range of Ultimates.

[low1991]

R.I.P Excal, Mag, Trinity.

R.I.P Viver.

Time for some off-line single player computer game.~

[letir]

3) Again, see my first post, at the point in time where shots are going to be instantly popping you, you wouldn't be using Radial Javelin in the first place.  You'd be spamming Radial Blind instead.

To hit enemies, i need LoS and 3 seconds.

To hit me, enemies need LoS and some time.

 

So, yes, i will NEVER use RJ in the first place. What's why before rework everyone spam Radial Blind, and it was main Ex power.

[LukeAura]

LoS is a nerf, it is a reduction in power being able to effectively hit less targets and a reduction in safety being more exposed during use. No matter what changes it makes to the game positive or negative it is a nerf. 

Nor will it be as good as you claim, the game won't be more enjoyable, enemies will still fall over and die or be stopped in their tracks. 
Enemies need to counter our abilities, that will make the game interesting. Hitting 4 won't stop being the solution to all situations with LoS, it'll just need to be hit more often. 

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

R.I.P Excal, Mag, Trinity.

R.I.P Viver.

Time for some off-line single player computer game.~

 

Fear not , Grand Theft Auto 5 is coming out in a week or so, if thats ur sort of thing. or Cod AW

[fatpig84]

Why are people acting like Radial Javelin is a end all be all skill ?

 

1) It has a looong cast time

2) It deals IPS which is by far the weakest damage type.

3) Thanks to IPS, you can't even kill level 40 Grineer.

4) It requires positioning that is often excessive.

5) The stun is SHORTER than the recovery animation.

 

I explain 4 a bit more.

 

The fact is other frames don't require that much setup as Excal right now.

Loki maybe the other one, just go Invisible and disarm.

 

You are reliant on Super Jump or Radial Blind to use RJ in it's current setup.

That means you blow far more energy to do the same thing, while being less efficient while other frames like Rhino just press 4. Or maybe the Rhino remembers to press 3 just in case. Never mind that Stomp has 2 instances of damage too, a 8 second stun time AND takes only half a second to cast.

 

 

IF you told me RJ packed finisher damage with bleed, fine I accept it.

It's a fair trade since I potentially can 1 shot a lot of things up to level 90 and there must be some need of trade off as compared to blade storm. Right now just no.

 

 

So after what DE did, what has excal become ?

Another 1 trick LOS Radial Blind pony ?

I fly / jump / copter, blind them and shoot them.

Isn't it this the same old game I played prior to U15 ?

 

 

So did DE wasted a few months trying to fix Excal only to revert it in an instant ?

Heck Furious Javelin was supposed to help fix RJ in higher scaling games, now with you maybe hitting a few enemies, the damage buff is absolutely worthless.

 

In the end I am better off using my neutered RB with a 400% modifier, same range and CC for far less energy.

So change, what has changed ?

 

Just a neutered RB Excalibur.

Edited November 13, 2014 by fatpig84

[RiouHotaru]

The stun is NOT shorter than the cast animation.  The stun doesn't even start until AFTER the attack hits, which doesn't occur until after the sword-plant part of the animation.  The recovery time normally is 2.5 seconds.  The stun is NOT 2.5 seconds, it's at least 4 seconds.  And if you're using Natural Talent (which you should, that cuts the cast time b 50%, so 2.5 becomes 1.25, which gives you more than enough time to capitalize on the stun.

[RiperRazor123]

Then how about if we make all AOE abilities to be line of sight.

[Elvang]

The stun is NOT shorter than the cast animation.  The stun doesn't even start until AFTER the attack hits, which doesn't occur until after the sword-plant part of the animation.  The recovery time normally is 2.5 seconds.  The stun is NOT 2.5 seconds, it's at least 4 seconds.  And if you're using Natural Talent (which you should, that cuts the cast time b 50%, so 2.5 becomes 1.25, which gives you more than enough time to capitalize on the stun.

The casting animation is certainly not 2.5 by default. With natural talent on, I can't cast faster than every 2.2 seconds.

[RiouHotaru]

The casting animation is certainly not 2.5 by default. With natural talent on, I can't cast faster than every 2.2 seconds.

 

According to the wiki:

 

• Has a cast time of ~1 second and an post-cast animation delay of ~2.5 seconds.

 

So the "Cast time" is the sword-plant, and the post-cast delay is him pulling the energy sword out and doing the flourish.  But the stun doesn't start until after the end of the cast time.  And I know the stun is longer than 2.5 seconds for a fact, because I used Radial Javelin after the change, without Natural Talent and had plenty of time to take advantage of stunned enemies.

[RafaelFuchs]

Then how about if we make all AOE abilities to be line of sight.

if they did this i wouldn't care becuase then people might get what this did to the abilities lol

 

LoS is a debuff no matter how you look at it. now how bad it is or how it affects things is a whole other can of worms i don't care to debate... lets all just say we have an understanding of that's a nerf to make something an AoE that ignores objects to an AoE that only works if you have LoS on them and i'll be cool with this little debate going on here

[Mak_Gohae]

RJ just went back to what it was before.

Well, i guess it keeps the bonus of more Javelins but the big problem that it had before was just added again.

They just wasted some time on this for nothing.

[Avalona]

RiouHotaru, I see that you have Ash as your avatar, so allow me to raise you a question ;

 

"Suppose Blade Storm is now only target those in your LoS at the time of activation. Would you consider the current Blade storm (that can wipe every room within range on activation, through cover, wall, and obstacles) an "exploitation" as you accused mag/trinity/excalibur?"

 

As much as Blade storm, Radial Javelin is the only useful offensive skill excalibur has that offer the power of it being "ultimate power", and if you could kill only those you've seen at the time of blade storming, will you call it a nerf, or will you defend the decision?

 

This isn't just a nerf, it's outright killing them off, with no logic behind it whatsoever.

[RiouHotaru]

Considering Excalibur had an Ultimate with literally no drawbacks besides IPS damage compared to every other Ult in the game?

 

An LoS balance was needed.

 

In case you doubt, allow me to state the following facts:

 

- Javelin has one of the longest base ranges (25m), matched only by a few others

- All damage is front-loaded, literally the moment you cast, you do damage (since cast time is ~1 second)

- Stun that's at least 4 seconds, allowing plenty of time to move or continue attack

- Damage occurs instantly since Javelins spawn on top of appropriate targets (compared to World on Fire, which has to kill targets one-at-a-time, or with Ash, where clones have to get to a target to kill them)

- No target cap

 

These advantages are shared between various ults, but only Excal's ult had all of these properties occuring simultaneously, making it probably one of the most well-balanced ults in the game.

Edited November 13, 2014 by RiouHotaru

[RiouHotaru]

RiouHotaru, I see that you have Ash as your avatar, so allow me to raise you a question ;

 

"Suppose Blade Storm is now only target those in your LoS at the time of activation. Would you consider the current Blade storm (that can wipe every room within range on activation, through cover, wall, and obstacles) an "exploitation" as you accused mag/trinity/excalibur?"

 

As much as Blade storm, Radial Javelin is the only useful offensive skill excalibur has that offer the power of it being "ultimate power", and if you could kill only those you've seen at the time of blade storming, will you call it a nerf, or will you defend the decision?

 

This isn't just a nerf, it's outright killing them off, with no logic behind it whatsoever.

 

Bladestorm does require LoS because I need LoS to hit the initial target.

 

Also, Bladestorm only hits at max, 15 targets, and I can't even pick what those targets are.  The 15 targets selected by Bladestorm might not be the group I want to kill, said 15 seem to be chosen by RNG.

 

So really, you can't ask me what would happen if Bladestorm required all tagged targets to be LoS because there's already significant drawbacks applied to the Ult anyway.

 

About the only advantage Bladestorm has is how it's damage can be focused onto a single target.

[fatpig84]

Considering Excalibur had an Ultimate with literally no drawbacks besides IPS damage compared to every other Ult in the game?

 

An LoS balance was needed.

 

In case you doubt, allow me to state the following facts:

 

- Javelin has one of the longest base ranges (25m), matched only by a few others

- All damage is front-loaded, literally the moment you cast, you do damage (since cast time is ~1 second)

- Stun that's at least 4 seconds, allowing plenty of time to move or continue attack

- Damage occurs instantly since Javelins spawn on top of appropriate targets (compared to World on Fire, which has to kill targets one-at-a-time, or with Ash, where clones have to get to a target to kill them)

- No target cap

 

These advantages are shared between various ults, but only Excal's ult had all of these properties occuring simultaneously, making it probably one of the most well-balanced ults in the game.

 

Implying that the others don't have front loaded damage ? o.0

 

Miasma (guaranteed stun, highest flat damage AOE outside of Ash), Stomp (guaranteed stun + x2 damage instance), Crush, Overload (guaranteed stun, in fact volt has the best stuns for ALL skills), Avalanche (enemies are frozen during animation deals 1.5k damage), even Absorb if you just keep releasing it immediately (knock down and 1500 damage which is higher than RJ btw) etc

Many more to count.

 

So other than greater range, what else does Excal ultimate kit have ?

[RiouHotaru]

Implying that the others don't have front loaded damage ? o.0

 

Miasma (guaranteed stun, highest flat damage AOE outside of Ash), Stomp (guaranteed stun + x2 damage instance), Crush, Overload (guaranteed stun, in fact volt has the best stuns for ALL skills), Avalanche (enemies are frozen during animation deals 1.5k damage), even Absorb if you just keep releasing it immediately (knock down and 1500 damage which is higher than RJ btw) etc

Many more to count.

 

So other than greater range, what else does Excal ultimate kit have ?

 Miasma:

- Limited base range of 15m at max rank

- Damage is done over a series of ticks, so all ticks must take place for total theoretical DPS to be achieved

 

Rhino Stomp:

- Damage is front-loaded, but once again, in 2 ticks.

- Stomp experiences damage fall-off based on range

- Rhino is vulnerable during the entire animation.

 

Overload:

- Damage is only done when wave hits target

- Wave has travel time, and thus has to reach farther away targets to inflict damage

- Animation time + travel time inhibits spamming

 

Avalanche:

- Limited range, base 15m at max

- Damage is only inflicted after max range is achieved

- Short post-cast recovery, but actual cast time is over 2 seconds base

 

Absorb:

- Damage is sole Magnetic

- Has only a 10m base maximum range

- Requires time to build up damage potential

 

Basically, Excal has a number of advantages over a large number of ultimates.  While not as focused in either damage or CC, it possesses no great specialization that cripples it's damage potential.

[RafaelFuchs]

Bladestorm does require LoS because I need LoS to hit the initial target.

 

Also, Bladestorm only hits at max, 15 targets, and I can't even pick what those targets are.  The 15 targets selected by Bladestorm might not be the group I want to kill, said 15 seem to be chosen by RNG.

 

So really, you can't ask me what would happen if Bladestorm required all tagged targets to be LoS because there's already significant drawbacks applied to the Ult anyway.

 

About the only advantage Bladestorm has is how it's damage can be focused onto a single target.

18 targets, 19 stabs. my hit counter hits 19 quite often on those longer survivals with ash due to a leader heavy unit. try also being the highest potential damage in the game in terms of ults...that bleed damage cripples. 

 

time and true thing to compare things too...rhino stomp meets all but the range. MPrime reaches over 80m if modded correctly while being able to slow them down so much you could take a nap...

[Reaver_X]

im curious, whats going on with this line of sight kick DE is on? radial blind i kinda get it....shield polarize? why!!?

[Reaver_X]

radial blind is still leagues above all the rest of excals skills....that being said he still needs more fine tuning.

[MichaelSD]

Let's see:

- Javelin has one of the longest base ranges (25m), matched only by a few others

Since damage is only usable until level 25-30 it is of not much help. Below that nearly every power works, not only RJ

 

- All damage is front-loaded, literally the moment you cast, you do damage (since cast time is ~1 second)

See above, the damage is of not much use around half of the time.

 

- Stun that's at least 4 seconds, allowing plenty of time to move or continue attack

4 second is nothing considering the casting animation is longer.

 

- Damage occurs instantly since Javelins spawn on top of appropriate targets (compared to World on Fire, which has to kill targets one-at-a-time, or with Ash, where clones have to get to a target to kill them)

Again, what use is the damage, if it does not kill the target?

 

- No target cap

That was the only good thing about it.

[Ragnarlee_Prime]

 

I have two options.

 

One is to insult you and tell you you really have no idea what you're talking about, the other is to politely explain that you're actually wrong.

 

I'll choose the latter and try being polite.

 

It's like this. I'll talk about it from the perspective of normal gameplay, not Viver.

 

In 3D action games with AoE abilities, line of sight is a mechanic that is inherently risky.

 

It requires you to see your enemies, which in turn means that your enemies see you.

 

Now, try looking at what Mag and Excalibur have for their base stats and their skills.

 

Mag's Shield Polarize is essentially a support mechanic that can(but doesn't have to) disrupt enemy shields.

Mag is a Magnetic mage, a caster frame. She likes to spam her abilities and Shield Polarize was beneficial for that in normal gameplay.

Logical question #1: How does magnetism work?

It sure as hell doesn't require line of sight to anything. Bring a large enough magnet and you can pull a truck over a wall with it, without seeing it.

In any case, in order to damage enemies with Shield Polarize now, she has to stand out of cover. It becomes a skill that puts her into danger instead of making her safer. The original design of her skill was to disrupt enemies while restoring shields for your team.

It simply does not do that anymore because the change on that skill forces Mag to jump in and risk getting shot to bits.

No experienced Warframe player will EVER do that.

 

Excalibur's Javelin used to be a skill that no one used because it required Excalibur to stand in the middle of a group of enemies for maximum effectiveness. It was a blind-fire skill that didn't exactly require line of sight, but you still had to be in a position where all the enemies you wanted to hit saw you too. It didn't go through doors or walls. It hit stuff in a circle around you and that was it.

Then DE changed that so it hit everything in a radius around him, regardless if it was behind a wall or not, as well as adding a short stun period for enemies if they survived his ult. And that was great and made Excalibur finally strong enough to be useful in something like long survival missions or generally high level content.

With this latest change, Excalibur now requires line of sight to hit enemies. Think about that for a second.

Although the ability is no longer blind-fire, Excal still has to position himself in such a way that he can be attacked. And unlike Mag, the casting time on his ult is much longer, so he's exposed to gunfire from any enemies that were behind cover at that point.

Excal dies in a second in high level content. Pure and simple.

Now, think about that skill for a minute. His "new" ult has a stun. It's his "oh S#&$!" button that he uses to disable enemies around him for a time, either for a counterattack or an escape. He uses that WHEN he's in trouble. But with the line of sight changes, now he has to stand where enemies see him to hit them, it's a skill that actually PUTS him INTO trouble.

 

Both of these points are multiplied by the fact that DE recently did some changes to the way enemies aim and now all ranged enemies have much higher accuracy.

 

In other words - using Mag or Excalibur in higher level Grineer missions is a literal death sentence. If you try using Shield Polarize or Javelin, you die. No ifs or buts, you get shot to pieces with perfect accuracy. That goes for anything with a hitscan weapon actually.

 

You see, DE maybe nerfed those Warframes because they were popular in farming Viver...

 

But they failed to consider that they also gutted them and made them almost useless in mid-high level content now. It's a horrible nerf. What they should've done is nerf Viver or completely remove it from the star chart until they find a proper solution.

 

Because nerfing those 3 frames did NOTHING for Viver. Players have already replaced them with Saryn, Volt and others.

 

Warframes are just tools for farming and Viver is the farm. DE needs to burn the farm, not break the tools.

  Couldn't have said it better myself. Really, I couldn't have.

[Xeo_Nespydonum]

It's a nerf.

[optyk]

I have two options.

 

One is to insult you and tell you you really have no idea what you're talking about, the other is to politely explain that you're actually wrong.

 

I'll choose the latter and try being polite.

 

It's like this. I'll talk about it from the perspective of normal gameplay, not Viver.

 

In 3D action games with AoE abilities, line of sight is a mechanic that is inherently risky.

 

It requires you to see your enemies, which in turn means that your enemies see you.

 

Now, try looking at what Mag and Excalibur have for their base stats and their skills.

 

Mag's Shield Polarize is essentially a support mechanic that can(but doesn't have to) disrupt enemy shields.

Mag is a Magnetic mage, a caster frame. She likes to spam her abilities and Shield Polarize was beneficial for that in normal gameplay.

Logical question #1: How does magnetism work?

It sure as hell doesn't require line of sight to anything. Bring a large enough magnet and you can pull a truck over a wall with it, without seeing it.

In any case, in order to damage enemies with Shield Polarize now, she has to stand out of cover. It becomes a skill that puts her into danger instead of making her safer. The original design of her skill was to disrupt enemies while restoring shields for your team.

It simply does not do that anymore because the change on that skill forces Mag to jump in and risk getting shot to bits.

No experienced Warframe player will EVER do that.

 

Excalibur's Javelin used to be a skill that no one used because it required Excalibur to stand in the middle of a group of enemies for maximum effectiveness. It was a blind-fire skill that didn't exactly require line of sight, but you still had to be in a position where all the enemies you wanted to hit saw you too. It didn't go through doors or walls. It hit stuff in a circle around you and that was it.

Then DE changed that so it hit everything in a radius around him, regardless if it was behind a wall or not, as well as adding a short stun period for enemies if they survived his ult. And that was great and made Excalibur finally strong enough to be useful in something like long survival missions or generally high level content.

With this latest change, Excalibur now requires line of sight to hit enemies. Think about that for a second.

Although the ability is no longer blind-fire, Excal still has to position himself in such a way that he can be attacked. And unlike Mag, the casting time on his ult is much longer, so he's exposed to gunfire from any enemies that were behind cover at that point.

Excal dies in a second in high level content. Pure and simple.

Now, think about that skill for a minute. His "new" ult has a stun. It's his "oh S#&$!" button that he uses to disable enemies around him for a time, either for a counterattack or an escape. He uses that WHEN he's in trouble. But with the line of sight changes, now he has to stand where enemies see him to hit them, it's a skill that actually PUTS him INTO trouble.

 

Both of these points are multiplied by the fact that DE recently did some changes to the way enemies aim and now all ranged enemies have much higher accuracy.

 

In other words - using Mag or Excalibur in higher level Grineer missions is a literal death sentence. If you try using Shield Polarize or Javelin, you die. No ifs or buts, you get shot to pieces with perfect accuracy. That goes for anything with a hitscan weapon actually.

 

You see, DE maybe nerfed those Warframes because they were popular in farming Viver...

 

But they failed to consider that they also gutted them and made them almost useless in mid-high level content now. It's a horrible nerf. What they should've done is nerf Viver or completely remove it from the star chart until they find a proper solution.

 

Because nerfing those 3 frames did NOTHING for Viver. Players have already replaced them with Saryn, Volt and others.

 

Warframes are just tools for farming and Viver is the farm. DE needs to burn the farm, not break the tools.

/thread

[RiouHotaru]

Let's see:

- Javelin has one of the longest base ranges (25m), matched only by a few others

Since damage is only usable until level 25-30 it is of not much help. Below that nearly every power works, not only RJ

 

- All damage is front-loaded, literally the moment you cast, you do damage (since cast time is ~1 second)

See above, the damage is of not much use around half of the time.

 

- Stun that's at least 4 seconds, allowing plenty of time to move or continue attack

4 second is nothing considering the casting animation is longer.

 

- Damage occurs instantly since Javelins spawn on top of appropriate targets (compared to World on Fire, which has to kill targets one-at-a-time, or with Ash, where clones have to get to a target to kill them)

Again, what use is the damage, if it does not kill the target?

 

- No target cap

That was the only good thing about it.

 

Arguing RJ is useless because of it's minimal impact (ha) on the highest of high-tier content doesn't work.  Abilities have to balanced against ALL possible content, not just the extreme upper end.

 

- You can't use it's damage as it's sole property of whether it's good or not.  Having one of the largest base ranges still gives it the ability to hit the widest area possible.

 

- Again, the fact the damage is 1000 IPS is of little consequence, compared to other Ults which either to wait for a long cast time (Frost, Ember, Mirage) or have to deal damage over a series of ticks as opposed to a burst (Mirage, Saryn)

 

- Total animation time is at most, 3.5 seconds.  The actual cast?  ~1 second.  Easily one of the shortest cast times in Warframe.  Stun lasts at least 2 seconds if not more than the post-cast recovery frames.

 

- The point is that the damage is immediately front-loaded.  Other ultimates either have a lengthy cast time during which they are vulnerable, or don't deal all of it's damage instantly.  That property alone is extremely powerful.

 

- No target cap means Javelin has the highest maximum possible DPS since it's upper DPS limit is solely limited to the number of the targets it hits, and with a massive range?  Yeah.

 

Basically, the post-balance Javelin was operating just like pre-balance Blind.