Redeemer's Shotgun Has Better Gunplay Than Primary Shotguns

[HolidayPi3]

Great job with the Redeemer, DE. The shotgun feels exactly how it should-- brutal, visceral, and oppressive. These are qualities that primary shotguns are missing. I think what's been applied to the Redeemer should also be applied to primary shotties. I'll list out what I've noticed.

1. Enemies get blasted back quite a distance. This makes the Redeemer feel like an absolute beast-- The gunshot from this thing is a jaw dropper because the feeling of impact is just so present. Here's a picture comparison of my 6 forma Hek vs my rank 3 Redeemer. Which gun looks like it packs the most hurt?

 

 

Enemy shot with Hek -- Stays in place, flailing arms.

 

Enemy shot with Redeemer -- Notice where the blood spray is. Notice where the enemy is. Notice the missing limbs. So satisfying!

 

 

2. The Redeemer shot has a very very miniscule, manageable amount of screenshake. This also helps give the impression that you're shooting something that you do NOT want to be on the opposite end of. It illustrates the difference between shooting a water gun and a shooting a real gun. Perhaps add this when hipfiring the heavier, chunkier shotguns? Shotguns are by no means comfortable to shoot off-the-shoulder while running.

 

I'd provide a gif to help further illustrate this point, but I'm terrible when it comes to this stuff.

 

3. The Redeemer has innate punch through. In tandem with the points above, the punch through finishes the Redeemer's effect with, "Wow, I just hit the enemy so hard that I killed his friend behind him... and the one behind him too." This isn't as much of an issue because primaries can mod for punch through, but it was worth mentioning how well it works with the above effects.

 

I'll probably be updating this thread as I play with the Redeemer more and more. If anyone has anything to add, feel free!

Edited December 2, 2014 by HolidayPi3

[ZirilanOfTheClaw]

If The Hek became that "visual" powerful, my life will be completed.

[Tyrian3k]

Nice idea.

 

Is it really punch through that the redeemer has? Weapons like the bolt guns an bows that can send enemies flying turn those dead bodies into projectiles themselves.

[RobWasHere]

Tigris - enemy is cut in half.

All other points are valid, though.

[DarkLordX2]

All the shotguns are in need of a buff, yes, i am serious.

[Shion963]

1. Blast Damage.

2. Can't sight in with Redeemer.

3. Haven't really noticed any punchthrough effect. Maybe it's because it shoots ten pellets? I need to test this.

Noticed that the visual shockwave actually staggers nearby enemies when it happens, though. Great for Infested swarms.

[Tyrian3k]

Tigris - enemy is cut in half.

All other points are valid, though.

 

That's just an innate property of slash damage...

[DarkLordX2]

1. Blast Damage.

2. Can't sight in with Redeemer.

3. Haven't really noticed any punchthrough effect. Maybe it's because it shoots ten pellets? I need to test this.

Noticed that the visual shockwave actually staggers nearby enemies when it happens, though. Great for Infested swarms.

20 pellets to be honest.

[Void_Vis_Vires]

I agree with this, after using the redeemer charge shot all other shot guns feel even more lackluster I really agree that all other shot guns need something like this is feel soooo awesome every time i used the charge shot of the redeemer and when i use regular shot guns it doesn't feel as awesome.

[Saint_of_Grey]

I personally find it both hilarious and and sad the the second, third, and fifth best shotguns in the game are pistols and the fourth is a melee weapon.

[HolidayPi3]

1. Blast Damage.

 

 

Yes, I have noticed that the gunshot has innate blast tied to it, which gives it its forceful qualities. But I'd argue that shotguns (at least the semi-auto / pump when we get one) should have this kind of effect built in as a perk of its weapon class. It would allow shotguns to differentiate and feel different enough from rifles to warrant having its own weapon class.

 

2. Can't sight in with Redeemer.

 

 

The screenshake could be an effect for hipfiring the shotgun, no? After all, firing a shotgun from the hip... is a bit more disorienting than firing it from the shoulder, at least from my experience. (Never shoot a shotgun without proper support. You'll break your wrists!)

 

3. Haven't really noticed any punchthrough effect. Maybe it's because it shoots ten pellets? I need to test this.

 

 

I'm pretty sure it's got punch through. Mogamu's video even showcases this as one of its better features. My Hek shoots 29 pellets with Scattered Justice + HC, and even with increased spread, it doesn't achieve quite the same effect on enemies in its range.

[UnknownGunneryChief]

When I'm shooting my Boar Prime it feels like shooting a Silenced Pistol that magically shoots pellets instead of actual bullets...

Seriously, it just feels so weak. HOW CAN A SHOTGUN SOUND SILENCED ANYWAYS??? (Ignoring the illogical stupid silenced shotguns of CoD:Advanced Warfare)

 

P.S. Or at least make it fully silent.

[SteelSoldier]

Redeemer charged attack is insanely powerful even without mods, I kid you not, I can one shot level 40 enemies with it, whoever the thing that you to consider is that it puts you in harm´s way due its range, but Its really good! Its a weapon with actual counters.

Edited December 2, 2014 by SteelSoldier

[direcyphre]

I've been using it recently and I find it is one of my favorite melee weapons of them all. The shotgun part of it has been pretty effective against most things I've gone up against, even in higher tier without having maxed  it out either. Thankfully the effect doesn't require the stance or anything either.

 

I do agree that the knockback is really fun and should be added to other weapons. There is nothing in between an enemy falling over dead, and an enemy flying across the room and being pinned to the wall via Boltor type projectiles. We're lacking a knockback effect that makes a weapon feel like it was so powerful it knocked an enemy back.

 

The amount of 'recoil' from firing definitely seems appropriate to this particular weapon, but recoil in general is exacerbated once you aim down the sights.

 

 

1. Blast Damage.

Blast damage causes knockdown, not straight up knockback. In fact Blast is super useful, but the least satisfying of the procs I use. It always looks pretty silly when Grineer in the small AOE suddenly fall over onto their face even thogh they were facing the center of the blast directly.

 

 

When I'm shooting my Boar Prime it feels like shooting a Silenced Pistol that magically shoots pellets instead of actual bullets...

Seriously, it just feels so weak. HOW CAN A SHOTGUN SOUND SILENCED ANYWAYS??? (Ignoring the illogical stupid silenced shotguns of CoD:Advanced Warfare)

 

P.S. Or at least make it fully silent.

I never found Boar Prime to be all that powerful in the first place, honestly! XD

Although sound improvements are definitely needed across the board. Like I'd use Latron Prime, because it is effective almost anywhere, but the sound it makes is just so ridiculously pathetic.

[SteelSoldier]

Honestly I personally I love Boar Prime, but if I go for any other automatic rifle in the game, I get higher range, possibly more damage and better wave clear than shotguns at the moment.

 

You can really make them on par with rifles considering they can have serration that gives them 200% damage, you just cant, same with pistols.

 

The solution to solve this problem would be to either increase all the damage of the shotguns by at least 20% to make them more on par with other weapons.

[Altey]

So buff shotguns

[SteelSoldier]

Yes Primary Shotguns need a buff in order to make them on par with other rifles.

[Shion963]

Blast damage causes knockdown, not straight up knockback. In fact Blast is super useful, but the least satisfying of the procs I use. It always looks pretty silly when Grineer in the small AOE suddenly fall over onto their face even thogh they were facing the center of the blast directly.

Blast damage kills sends the enemy flying, I'm not sure if it applies to all weapons since I notice it happen more when killing enemies with blast-equipped melee. Blast proc itself is indeed knockdown.

Yes, I have noticed that the gunshot has innate blast tied to it, which gives it its forceful qualities. But I'd argue that shotguns (at least the semi-auto / pump when we get one) should have this kind of effect built in as a perk of its weapon class. It would allow shotguns to differentiate and feel different enough from rifles to warrant having its own weapon class.

 

 

The screenshake could be an effect for hipfiring the shotgun, no? After all, firing a shotgun from the hip... is a bit more disorienting than firing it from the shoulder, at least from my experience. (Never shoot a shotgun without proper support. You'll break your wrists!)

 

 

I'm pretty sure it's got punch through. Mogamu's video even showcases this as one of its better features. My Hek shoots 29 pellets with Scattered Justice + HC, and even with increased spread, it doesn't achieve quite the same effect on enemies in its range.

Used to be that shotguns/shotpistols would throw enemies they kill because of the leftover pellets propelling them (usually more noticeable when overkilled), added A LOT to the fun factor. Nowadays, they don't ragdoll unless killed with specific weapons, i.e. Projectile, arrows.

Oh I was referring more to holding a shotgun with both hands, closer to the body (and in turn, spine, neck) while sighting in, vs holding it straight out like the Redeemer. A Boar's recoil would transfer to shoulder, arms, spine: Screenshake. Redeemer's recoil throws the weapon away much like high recoil from a high-powered revolver in an outstretched arm. Recoil wouldn't travel to spine to cause screenshake if the weapon jerks upward due to the locked shoulder rather than locked elbow (which could cause the shoulder to be dislocated backwards if it wasn't an exosuited superhuman).

I'll have to go watch Mogamu's vid on the Redeemer, then. I was wondering how to add punchthrough to the Redeemer, sounds like I don't have to worry about that anymore, what with this and the increased shot range + Reach. Now for multishot...

[FrozenVoid]

I'm still waiting for a good ol' Pump action Shotgun with one hell of a blast.... dreams

 

But yeah the Redeemer is just fun to play. The gunshot sound as well as the ragdolls gives a damn good feeling when using it.

As it is right now Primary shotguns are pretty unbalanced in comparison to the Rifles. Even the secondary Shotguns outclass the Primaries.

[hijinks_the_turtle]

It's really sad that a melee weapon does better than what the actual primaries do.

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

 

remove dmg falloff on all shotguns, just allow them to balance their long range dmg with spread

[Tyrian3k]

+1 OP

 

remove dmg falloff on all shotguns, just allow them to balance their long range dmg with spread

 

I'd love that removed. Would allow players to shoot into groups of enemies and hit them all, but honestly, the chances of DE doing that are abyssmal... you'd rather win a lottery.

[zoboso]

Ah stun, how you were reduced as part of creating the proc system now relegated to melee weapons, as a ridiculous question was stunning thing fun when Crowd control was a thing?

[LurkenLurker]

1. Blast Damage.

2. Can't sight in with Redeemer.

3. Haven't really noticed any punchthrough effect. Maybe it's because it shoots ten pellets? I need to test this.

Noticed that the visual shockwave actually staggers nearby enemies when it happens, though. Great for Infested swarms.

1.Blast dmg is super useful and with the finisher the charge shot and all the shot in the high noon stance being innate charged shot dealing full and half charge dmg this proc is super useful and you don't even have to wast mods modding for blast.

 

2.You can Zoom In when you want to take precision shots with this weapon all you have to do is switch to your primary gun zoom in and press hold e to hit your target with a charged shot and it will stay zoomed in for the shot.

 

3.This has Puch though tested with shield Lancer it will puch right though the shield 

[Shion963]

1.Blast dmg is super useful and with the finisher the charge shot and all the shot in the high noon stance being innate charged shot dealing full and half charge dmg this proc is super useful and you don't even have to wast mods modding for blast.

 

2.You can Zoom In when you want to take precision shots with this weapon all you have to do is switch to your primary gun zoom in and press hold e to hit your target with a charged shot and it will stay zoomed in for the shot.

 

3.This has Puch though tested with shield Lancer it will puch right though the shield

Read my second post in this thread. I did not mean that Blast damage is useless, can't sight in etc, or it ABSOLUTELY DOESNT HAVE punchthrough.