Saryn's Miasma Is Too Much Op

[Harbingie]

**** you.

[Epicagemo]

Pick up overextended which will drop damage but will do 2-4k damage but it still wrecks everything on the star-chart. I've only seen that fall off around wave 20 on t4. An overextended build ruined the game for me :( I've basically been speed running defense missions width her

[Azawarau]

**** you.

Any context here or?

 

 

 

Really though

 

Bring down miasma and kick int he reverse duration mechanic for her powers

 

Id love this^

Edited December 4, 2014 by Azawarau

[Buzkyl]

People are so anti-nerf here it's almost hilarious.

 

 

Saryn is basically a one-trick pony. She's not fine.

 

 

Her kit needs to be revisited, buff venom proc chance, make contagion actually worth the energy. Should miasma be nerfed, atleast add in some utility to eat.

 

Why not have targets that are hit be completely stripped of thier Armour value? Making saryn able to scale extremely well as when the damage from misasma falls off, it has excellent utility like Nova's

[TrinityPrime]

What if ya just invert her Miasma duration (more duration mods = decreased Miasma duration)? Min-Max loadouts will suffer but overall it makes the rest of her kit available for use.  Kinda the same reasoning behind removing ability slots.

 

I might get a lot of hate if the devs decided to do that though, maybe add 100% viral proc chance like how they added 100% radiation proc chance on reckoning, or does Miasma already do that?  Things die so quick on a maxed build that I don't notice. Maybe dual proc viral corrosive then. 

[RealPandemonium]

Why not have targets that are hit be completely stripped of thier Armour value? Making saryn able to scale extremely well as when the damage from misasma falls off, it has excellent utility like Nova's

That will just make her the anti-Grineer pony.  Grineer armor needs to not scale infinitely, as it results in an exponential durability increase per level.

[MechaKnight]

Saryn is basically a one-trick pony. She's not fine.

 

 

Her kit needs to be revisited, buff venom proc chance, make contagion actually worth the energy. Should miasma be nerfed, atleast add in some utility to eat.

 

Why not have targets that are hit be completely stripped of thier Armour value? Making saryn able to scale extremely well as when the damage from misasma falls off, it has excellent utility like Nova's

Venom needs to be easier to spread. It sometimes goes dead depending on if anyone uses abilities, uses explosives, or uses strong weapons. Players have a tendency to use all of the above, hence why Venom often doesn't work.

 

Miasma really is weak when modding Saryn "as intended." Go build her for positive duration and what you essentially get is a slower version of Reckoning with zero status effects and no blind.

 

 

What if ya just invert her Miasma duration (more duration mods = decreased Miasma duration)? Min-Max loadouts will suffer but overall it makes the rest of her kit available for use.  Kinda the same reasoning behind removing ability slots.

 

I might get a lot of hate if the devs decided to do that though, maybe add 100% viral proc chance like how they added 100% radiation proc chance on reckoning, or does Miasma already do that?  Things die so quick on a maxed build that I don't notice. Maybe dual proc viral corrosive then. 

The problem with the way abilities are calculated in this game is that they're numbers that are multiplying off an attribute multiplier we additively influence with each mod. I don't think the calculations can be flipped, but they can be removed.

 

Miasma has zero status chance and no blind stun like Reckoning, although it has a form of generic stun. The difference in the stuns is the presence or lack of stealth multiplier. Either way, Miasma feels weak when modded as intended, and actually gets weaker with positive durations. I do not mean it does the damage slower, it actually does less total damage to use her as intended.

Edited December 5, 2014 by MechaKnight

[ProfessorZero]

Going to point something out here. Go to the void with that build. Yes you will do well, but you won't do better than any other frame. Its an area nuke, and by definition, area nukes do a hell of a lot of damage. But compare to banshees ult. Not so much damage, but you can stagger lock pretty much everything in a 50m radius with it. No one is saying Banshees ult is OP, in fact many consider Banshee to be underpowered. The second the damage drops off on Saryns ult, it loses its usefulness in droves, where as even many other ults have other effects that enable them to scale well. All about perspective.

[TrinityPrime]

The problem with the way abilities are calculated in this game is that they're numbers that are multiplying off an attribute multiplier we additively influence with each mod. I don't think the calculations can be flipped, but they can be removed.

 

Well it's how they setup Oberon's Renewal to work so it isn't beyond their capabilities to do it to Miasma.  More duration mods -> less renewal duration, more health restored per tick.

[RealPandemonium]

The second the damage drops off on Saryns ult, it loses its usefulness in droves, where as even many other ults have other effects that enable them to scale well. All about perspective.

That's gonna happen somewhere in the 100s, far beyond intended content.  

Edited December 5, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[MechaKnight]

That's gonna happen somewhere in the 100s, far beyond intended content.  

Yup, and it isn't even the only ability that does this much damage with this much ability to spam. Saryn is the epitome of the problem with this game's ability foundation: maximize radial nuke regardless of your other abilities, spam said radial nuke. Or if you're a support warframe, spam said support. Our #4 ability is usually extremely powerful compared to our other abilities with a few exceptions.

[RealPandemonium]

Yup, and it isn't even the only ability that does this much damage with this much ability to spam. Saryn is the epitome of the problem with this game's ability foundation: maximize radial nuke regardless of your other abilities, spam said radial nuke. Or if you're a support warframe, spam said support. Our #4 ability is usually extremely powerful compared to our other abilities with a few exceptions.

If you're Nova, your 4 does damage mitigation, buffing, and killing all in one!

Edited December 5, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[Xaei]

I think we really need to strip the ability to stack power efficiency down to Archewing levels. I don't think DE ever intended for ultimates to be spammed like this.

 

It really takes away the shooter part of being a third person shooter when your usual routine consists of walking into a room, use 4, everyone's dead, repeat.

[RealPandemonium]

I think we really need to strip the ability to stack power efficiency down to Archewing levels. I don't think DE ever intended for ultimates to be spammed like this.

 

It really takes away the shooter part of being a third person shooter when your usual routine consists of walking into a room, use 4, everyone's dead, repeat.

They should fix ultimates and make them interesting/challenging to use rather than restricting our ability to cast them.  

[Mesyra]

saryn of all frames, REALLY?

Edited December 5, 2014 by VYR3

[Jinryusai]

I.. honestly don't understand you.

Why would you scream "NERF" at Saryn, of all the frames? She's one of the lesser used frames, along with Mag and Banshee. 

 

By your logic, Valkyr also needs to be nerfed, cause oh no, her ult is also so OP without forma

 

 

SERIOUSLY.

Because these morons don't know how to think. All they see is one rushing ahead to melt evetything and others unable to kill anything.

 

30-50 minute survival means nothing to them and neither does defens eor any other endless mission.

 

They never think beyond level 40 enemies.

 

They always quit at round 15 most likely 10, anything later is too hard for them...If they had Saryn or any other operpowered frame, they would stay longer, but they could care less.

 

The only thing they care for is themselves.

 

And the ONLY reason these threads exists is because those foolish ones that spam their 4s endlessly making things borings and a lot of those are perhaps idiots who do it to flaunt their powers, etc.

 

So it is NOT the power itself he wants to nerf, it's the players abusing such power. he wants to make them pay for their insolence. Nerfing them is the perfect way to do that. That is why he is here and more shall come.

 

They did it to Nova, they shall do it for her. 

 

They don't do this to preserve the game or prevent the game from dying or help it strive or whatever, they simply want to punish those that abuse Miasma for making their existence pointless or futile.

 

And that is, in a nutshell, why the guy feels the need to be a crybaby. This might as well be a support ticket, but that would get ignored.

 

So move on everyone, nothing to see here.

 

However this game needs to spam more anti aoe enemies in light of the power abuse. it only makes sense. The anti aoe aura would spread slowly and slowly get fast depending on the rate of killings/damage, etc.

 

It's time to power up the enemies and make them stronger. When do enemies get stronger and since when has nerfing anything made the game any harder? It NEVER HAS.

 

Buff the  enemy force(not really their health or damage).

Edited December 5, 2014 by Jinryusai

[Jinryusai]

Any context here or?

 

 

 

Really though

 

Bring down miasma and kick int he reverse duration mechanic for her powers

 

Id love this^

Every frame deserves that reverse/negative effect for their powers.

[ProfessorZero]

The "nobody wants to go longer then wave 10-5 or 15 mins of survival" problem, is because some people don't want to plop down and spend 50 minutes or an hour on one mission. Hell some people may only play an hour or two a day. If your reason for nerfing something is so that people stay longer (wut) or making it harder so its more interesting (for... them? I mean at the end of the day if they are nuking rooms that doesn't mean you have to.) since they leave earlier, thats not good enough of a reason. In fact, at the higher levels it would mean less time spent in survivals and defenses even with a good, solid crew. What you are bemoaning is that people are using end-built frames on not end tier level stuff. So of course they are going to rock everythings face, its what they are built to do. But when you actually go with a crew (godbless council chat for this) that WANTS to go as far as possible, you end up lasting to the point that the nukes don't wreck everythings face as hard anymore, or at all. To that degree all the previous 30 minutes, 40 minutes of S#&$-tier mobs that you consistently nuked on is all prologue to the main event. I won't deny the power of ults (I mean really, Absorb? MPrime? Bladestorm? Peacemaker? all powerful), but many of the frames that have these powers are in themselves, pretty balanced (in terms of power distribution, as in I won't just ult all the time, even if I ult alot). Saryns problem is that she has molt, which is fine, but other than that, everything else is very lackluster. So don't whine about people who want shorter rounds, find a clan, an active clan, or at least an active alliance, and go. The longest runs I've ever done were with Council Chat people (imb4 nerf council, inb4 elitist) and I wasn't feeling super OP by the end. If all you are doing is running short term TD or TS, then yah Miasma is OP. But so is practically anything else there, hell guns are hella OP for the first 10 minutes of basically anything.

 

[MechaKnight]

It only looks OP when players wreck her other abilities using a backwards calculation. Fixing the calculation will fix Miasma, but she needs enough tweaks to consider an overhaul. This doesn't solve the problem of every other radial nuke wiping rooms of level 40 and under enemies. Excalibur's Radial Javelin dominated the Mutalist Alad V event from a few days ago, but his damage is on the weaker end of the spectrum. No ability is balanced around the fact we have three power strength mods and up to 90% efficiency in two mods.

 

Excalibur's Radial Javelin does 1000 damage within 25 meters. Most players spammed this ability with maximum range using Stretch and Overextended. They balanced the loss in strength by using strength mods, and kept maximum efficiency by meeting the 75% energy cap. Using these mods, Excalibur players beat just about every other warframe in the race to kill infested. Excalibur usually scored at least over 50% of total damage done, usually over 85% of damage done even in a squad with one or more Saryn players.

 

However, we all know the only ability weaker than Radial Javelin is Overload. The only reason RJ was able to be so strong in the first place was because the game is not balanced around our mods. This is the equivalent of chairs not being suited to have people sit on them, or trying to hammer a nail into a piece of glass. The game is not made to handle our abilities with the tools we are given to play with. It's an extremely fundamental problem that is simple to understand, but understandably hard to remedy once it is in motion.

[kvestwara]

They did it to Nova, they shall do it for her. 

 it a greate idea. do something similar with saryn like they did with nova. Miasma must depend on Range Duration Strength like Nova's Molecular Prime.  it would be a best decision

[MechaKnight]

 it a greate idea. do something similar with saryn like they did with nova. Miasma must depend on Range Duration Strength like Nova's Molecular Prime.  it would be a best decision

Miasma already scales off range, duration, and strength. You're just confirming you've never played Saryn before. Go pick her up and mod her the way you feel seems correct without outside build advice. Try all of her abilities and see the situation first hand.

 

Fixing Saryn's Miasma is really way more complicated compared to Nova's Molecular Prime case. Molecular Prime still scales off her attributes as intended, and the rest of her abilities remained completely untouched. The issue with Miasma is it is actually very weak when used as intended, and her abilities are also bad to most players. Saryn and Banshee were the rarest warframes in the game up until recent months. It was only when Transient Fortitude was released that players even touched Saryn again.

 

It's not even about Miasma really, but Saryn's entire kit. She requires optimizations on Contagion, Miasma, Venom, and possibly Molt but to a much lesser extent. What we're looking at is a rework of at least three abilities.

 

However, fixing one warframe will not fix the problem of players wiping whole floors without effort. If I'm motivated I can take a Volt or Excalibur and do it just as well. The nodes in the solar system are not balanced to our level of ability, and #4 radial nukes are infinitely spammable for a cheap rate. Fixing one warframe will not fix this problem. It's a fundamental problem that can only be fixed by changing the game's foundation for how abilities are used and what fuels them, and how it fuels them.

Edited December 5, 2014 by MechaKnight

[RealPandemonium]

However, we all know the only ability weaker than Radial Javelin is Overload.

Brb busting out Volt to demonstrate that Overload can approach (pre-TF) Miasma levels of damage, and probably exceed them now that TF exists. 

[Phoenix86]

Saryn is now "press 4 to win" other her ability is almost nobody used. 

 

then the problem surely ISNT her Ulti but her other 3 powers being crap in usage and/or effectiveness

[Azawarau]

Brb busting out Volt to demonstrate that Overload can approach (pre-TF) Miasma levels of damage, and probably exceed them now that TF exists. 

This^

 

The only issues i have with overload are the AoE range is too small to benefit from the chains and chaining from environment only works once and in relatively few areas

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

lol go out a bit TC, try to experiment this thing called life, it will do you good.