WhiteCopain Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) When it comes to Mesa/Hydroid/Nekros, these frames are about as hard, if not harder to put together then most prime frames. Requiring a ton of farming (and luck) to just get the keys, and then having to fight these bosses many times to get the parts you need, but getting the wrong part instead (I just got two more helmets for Mesa for instance), it adds up to a lot of junk in inventories that we can't do anything about--- other then sell them for a couple hundred credits or something. It's really frustrating that if we're making a prime frame we can mix and match the parts easily, but with a non prime frame I can be sitting around with thirty helmets and my friend could need a hat and have ten system blueprints that I need, and neither of us can shuffle those around. That shouldn't be a thing. At all. It's way too hard and expensive for people to even get a shot at fighting a boss just to not get the part they need again and again and then not be able to do anything with the spares. I'd get it if they were regular bosses that didn't require hours/days/weeks of farm to even fight ONCE, but they are, and it's not fun or interesting. Edited December 4, 2014 by WhiteCopain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towermice Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Welcome to the grind. Want to mess up the economy even more? Edited December 4, 2014 by Towermice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immolator1001 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Nekros is super easy to get now that people play OD for xp and vaults Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 nekros is fine. mesa and hydroid need to be set so once you've made the key and killed the boss once you can run it as many times you want with out farming again to get the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteCopain Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 Welcome to the grind. Want to mess up the economy even more? So, what, nothing should ever be added to the economy from here on out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towermice Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 So, what, nothing should ever be added to the economy from here on out? No, seeing how incredibly low the prices are already for the economy I should not be able to get over half of the frames in the game for only 5 dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unknow99 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Under certain conditions, maybe...Maybe. Edit : in fact,it has 95% chance to disturb the balance...No more people completing things with dedication, they just need plats... Reworking the RNG itself however... :) Edited December 4, 2014 by unknow99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteCopain Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) No, seeing how incredibly low the prices are already for the economy I should not be able to get over half of the frames in the game for only 5 dollars. And getting more people to buy platinum because of a more fair rate is bad how? I'm not going to buy Platinum when I have to pay 15 dollars for Mesa, if I could get mesa's parts for 3 bucks each or whatever, I sure as hell would. And I'm sure a ton of people would do the same. Edited December 4, 2014 by WhiteCopain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichouette Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 nekros is fine. mesa and hydroid need to be set so once you've made the key and killed the boss once you can run it as many times you want with out farming again to get the key. Nope Would totally ruin the difficulty to get those warframe Stop whining because a game is hard and rather try to find people to farm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteCopain Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) Under certain conditions, maybe...Maybe. Edit : in fact,it has 95% chance to disturb the balance...No more people completing things with dedication, they just need plats... Reworking the RNG itself however... :) If they want to rework the RNG or something, great, but it's absurd you can run a boss who's difficult to even get into 20+ times and never see what you need and then be stuck with a bunch of useless junk you can't do anything with. Nope Would totally ruin the difficulty to get those warframe Stop whining because a game is hard and rather try to find people to farm Grind =/= Difficulty. Hydroid and Mesa aren't even considered superior frames, you're farming junk for a mastery filler frame. If you want to talk actual difficulty and such, then we need to have something that needs me to stay for a hundred + waves of T4 defense. As it stands, there's nothing like that, and really nothing difficult other then self imposed downgrading. Edited December 4, 2014 by WhiteCopain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Redwire Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 And getting more people to buy platinum because of a more fair rate is bad how? I'm not going to buy Platinum when I have to pay 15 dollars for Mesa, if I could get mesa's parts for 3 bucks each or whatever, I sure as hell would. And I'm sure a ton of people would do the same. And that's what we call the relationship between cost and revenue. DE probably employs a decent sized team of professionals that analyze information in terms of this everyday - balancing prices and policies to equate revenue to costs, thus maximizing profits. I can guarantee you that if there are potential ways to maximize these profits with all the tools they have available to them, they have already thought of them and tested them with countless mathematical models based on theoretical and real data and statistics. In short, no need to worry about DE's money making policies and methods. If they feel like they need to make a change, I can assure you they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteCopain Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 And that's what we call the relationship between cost and revenue. DE probably employs a decent sized team of professionals that analyze information in terms of this everyday - balancing prices and policies to equate revenue to costs, thus maximizing profits. I can guarantee you that if there are potential ways to maximize these profits with all the tools they have available to them, they have already thought of them and tested them with countless mathematical models based on theoretical and real data and statistics. In short, no need to worry about DE's money making policies and methods. If they feel like they need to make a change, I can assure you they will. DE has changed in the past based on feedback like this. They don't just suddenly up and change whenever they want, and they've made plenty of mistakes in the past. People complained back when Prime trading first became a thing, and now the game's all the better because of it and judging by how they themselves comment on it, it's probably been a financial success too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towermice Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 And getting more people to buy platinum because of a more fair rate is bad how? I'm not going to buy Platinum when I have to pay 15 dollars for Mesa, if I could get mesa's parts for 3 bucks each or whatever, I sure as hell would. And I'm sure a ton of people would do the same. Parts for a regular warframe would be about the price of a few mods you find on defense, or one vault run maybe. If you want one particular frame that cost say 5 plat would you really go through all the trouble of actually going and buying 75 platnium for $5? I wouldn't, like many others I would just find some trash mod in my inven that I forgot about and then trade that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greifer_ Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I hope that these frame parts are not open for trade. I enjoyed the grind and clan mates helped with keys and getting the bosses. if this became an option the economy would dwindle as people would offer the parts for 1 p or a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellaPotato Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 When it comes to Mesa/Hydroid/Nekros, these frames are about as hard, if not harder to put together then most prime frames. Requiring a ton of farming (and luck) to just get the keys, and then having to fight these bosses many times to get the parts you need, but getting the wrong part instead (I just got two more helmets for Mesa for instance), it adds up to a lot of junk in inventories that we can't do anything about--- other then sell them for a couple hundred credits or something. It's really frustrating that if we're making a prime frame we can mix and match the parts easily, but with a non prime frame I can be sitting around with thirty helmets and my friend could need a hat and have ten system blueprints that I need, and neither of us can shuffle those around. That shouldn't be a thing. At all. It's way too hard and expensive for people to even get a shot at fighting a boss just to not get the part they need again and again and then not be able to do anything with the spares. I'd get it if they were regular bosses that didn't require hours/days/weeks of farm to even fight ONCE, but they are, and it's not fun or interesting. thier filler frames, and its not even that hard. at all i have 2 alad keys in one day, its just bit tedious like alot of this game. wanna talk unfair talk to me after you do what i did for nyx prime pal and tell me your grind for mes, is harder then mine was nyx prime. "spoiler" your dead wrong im grinding for mesa as well. bout the same as hyrdoid really lil longer not bad nothing compared to the 500 keys i ran for nyx prime 500 keys and in the end i gave up and bought what i needed from people with plat 500 keys thats unfair hell i still dont have loki prime prime grinding is way harder and being able to just sell every frame, god no people need to earn their stuff not just have it be gifted all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivelor Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) And getting more people to buy platinum because of a more fair rate is bad how? I'm not going to buy Platinum when I have to pay 15 dollars for Mesa, if I could get mesa's parts for 3 bucks each or whatever, I sure as hell would. And I'm sure a ton of people would do the same. No you would not. Simply because it would be so easy to obtain it ingame that paying real money for it would be silly. If the market if swamped with these trades nobody in the right mind would spend money for it. On the other hand, if it requires time to be obtained you can "push" a group of players to "buy it now" to pucrchase nothing more than an exclusive. This is a f2p, and a non-invasive one. It should stay like that (on this particular subject). People are running, for Mesa, an average of 5.5 runs (round up to 6) to get the whole set. I can link you to the simple math if interested. Anyway, 6 runs, assuming you keyshare, are 2 keys or 6 navs coords, which can be easily obtain throught a couple of days if you keep an eye on it, a week at best if you're busy in RL. This is NOT grinding. This is just sit and wait. Hydroid, on the other hand, it's far more annoying, i'll give you that. The only things in this game that should be tradable (that are not atm) are brakk/detron/etc parts, parts that nobody can obtain without an intensive dedication, aka grinding. Edited December 4, 2014 by Ivelor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_Redwire Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 DE has changed in the past based on feedback like this. They don't just suddenly up and change whenever they want, and they've made plenty of mistakes in the past. People complained back when Prime trading first became a thing, and now the game's all the better because of it and judging by how they themselves comment on it, it's probably been a financial success too. You missed the point. I am willing to bet that they crunched the numbers of whether or not having prime parts available for trading was profitable for the company long before trading was actually making its way into the game. You can't compare prime parts to regular warframe parts because Prime's can't be bought via the market, whereas regular warframes can. Any trade economy price is going to vastly undercut the standard market price, enough so that despite the multitudes of new microtransactions in the trade economy, the overall net loss in revenue probably outweighs by a wide margin. The initial point I was trying to make is that DE has probably already looked at scenarios where regular warframe parts were a part of the trade economy > calculated theoretical models > found that to do so wasn't profitable. But I'm glad you're so enthusiastic about providing such feedback to DE - albeit in the wrong section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuri99 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Hydriod and Mesa I agree. They need to have the effort to get to the boss reworked. I dont really agree for nekros though. Nav coordinates are a dime a dozen and the golem nav coordinates drop a lot. Golem nav coordinates are one size fits all unlike the beacons needed for Vey hek. IMO thats a thin but acceptable line For me Nekros was never really a grind. We do ODD and vault runs all the time so when I was ready to get him I had a surplus of golem nav coordinates. When it was time I made 7 keys, got some people from recruitment and ran it till I got all his parts (which was 6 runs I think). Today I have enough golem nav coordinates to do over 100 ODAs if I wanted. The problem with the hydriod grind is the beacons that drop are not one size fits all and many are rarer then the others. Theres no reason to why certain prosecutors drop one beacon and others drop another. Its all random chance. This combination of factors turns it into a massive grind. Especially when you have to run the boss at least 3 times (probably more I got my full hydriod in 7 runs I think). Mesa is a whole other kettle of fish and its almost like they took 2 steps forward and one step back. The Alad V nav coodinates are a garanteed drop from some invasions but these invasions are pretty rare from what Ive seen. Also you have to run those specific invasion missions 3 times over, wait for it to finish which could be hours later, and then you finally get the coordinate. So bare minimum youre looking at 9 missions to get a garanteed coordinate which isnt unreasonable IMO. What is unreasonable is how rare those missions come up and that you cant run them anytime. You have to wait for an invasion to happen and then hope you can do the three runs before the rest of the tenno mop it up. This is not good design IMO. To DEs credit they stepped back from the hydriod grind but they complicated the issue with not only RNG but also timing which is why I think the Mesa grind is probably worse then hydriod. As I said 2 steps forward 1 step back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Moved to a more appropriate subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniperoth Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I'm almost inclined to agree.. just to complete Vauban. Rare alert is rare. >____< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostar Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 If all Warframe parts were tradable, why would you even MEED a market place? People would just buy rhino parts rather then grind for them, you could buy them for 5P each, rather then having to buy the one from the market which would take a HUGE dip in plat sales for DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kungpaobeef Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Not just frame parts, but some weapon blueprints as well, like the ones only obtainable through alerts/no longer on market/not in clan research. I have a couple of weapon blueprints that can no longer be obtainable(i.e.: machete) and I don't really want to sell the blueprint for credits since it's an exclusive weapon now, but I don't really want the weapon either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GutturalRope27 Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I don't get why you want to do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadrigos Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 nekros is fine. mesa and hydroid need to be set so once you've made the key and killed the boss once you can run it as many times you want with out farming again to get the key. THIS THIS THIS!! Make it part of the quest system. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juebev Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I'm going to have to disagree. I worked hard to get those frames, and it didn't happen over night and eventually I got them. Yes the grind was difficult, but it makes things much easier if you have a clan and friends willing to help. All it takes is patience, and if I could do it - you can too. Your other option is to buy it from the market, however making warframe parts tradeable as others have mention would be bad for DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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