I Dearly Hope The Soma Prime Isn't More Powerful Than The Other Prime Weapons.

[Azawarau]

When was the last time you went to the Phobos Grineer tileset or the Corpus Ice tileset? What about the Earth tileset? Without a doubt, tilesets are getting bigger.

 

 

Rifles arent overpowered. Individual weapons perhaps, but not rifles in general. Also note that I didnt say that shotguns suck.

Theres the Boltor prime

 

I was poking more at the rifles arent overpowered and let out how bad your comparison between the sybaris and soma is

 

The soma is a spray and kill weapon

 

The sybaris is more for heavy targets

 

Aside from very late game and beyond the soma should always outkill the sybaris because of it

 

If you want a fair judgement of a weapon then judge it within its class or youre just comparing apples to oranges

Edited December 5, 2014 by Azawarau

[Innocent_Flower]

So, tell us more about how you believe the Devs can't balance their own game when adding new weapons and thus require your mothering on balance before they even demonstrate a weapon.

To understand the future; one only need look at the past. 

 

The present too. There's stuff that's been out of ballance for years. 2.5% status chance mods, anyone? 

[Azawarau]

So, tell us more about how you believe the Devs can't balance their own game when adding new weapons and thus require your mothering on balance before they even demonstrate a weapon.

Someone beat me to it

 

They dont exactly have the best record of balance

 

See PvP

 

Recent invincibility reworks

 

General power creeps

[Altey]

 

 

See PvP

 

Who cares about pvp?

[DivisionByZero]

Soma Prime? No thanks, I like my newly buffed Braton Prime.

[Azawarau]

Who cares about pvp?

Irrelevant trash talk

 

Classy

[Cpl_Facehugger]

And you're making a prime version. This is a weapon that's already considered equal to or superior to all the current prime weapons. If you're going to improve on it you might as well throw your other prime weapons away.

 

Soma is widely considered inferior to Boltor Prime, and for good reason. It's now just about equal to Braton Prime now that it's been buffed.

 

Yes...at least MASTERY LOCK it!

 

I will literally cry if I start seeing MR2s with Soma Prime one hitting everything >.>

(already happens with the damn Boltor)

 

Soma's already MR6. I doubt Soma Prime will be any lower, though it might be possible that PA could skew this.

 

Hiel PowerCreep!!

 

I really hate this argument, because it's bad and wrong, and people just cry "power creep" in an attempt to silence discussion. "Power creep" aka progression is not intrinsically a bad thing, and having more options at the top tier is a good thing. The problem with Boltor Prime right now is that it has no* competition, not that it's particularly powerful. You can roll any node on the starmap with a Karak and a good build, the only time when a weapon's power really comes into play is long duration endless missions due to enemy scaling.

 

*Some of the syndicate weapons might shake this up a bit. We'll see.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger

[noveltyhero]

Soma's already MR6. I doubt Soma Prime will be any lower, though it might be possible that PA could skew this.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Boltor_Prime

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Boltor

 

Mastery Rank differences, normal is MR2 and Prime is MR0. Keep it exclusive to PA buyers? Sure. But lock it for everyone else at something higher, if Boltor P was at say 8 or something for non PA buyers then it would be fine IMO :/

[Cpl_Facehugger]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Boltor_Prime

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Boltor

 

Mastery Rank differences, normal is MR2 and Prime is MR0. Keep it exclusive to PA buyers? Sure. But lock it for everyone else at something higher, if Boltor P was at say 8 or something for non PA buyers then it would be fine IMO :/

 

I didn't know that. Huh. Okay, yeah, Boltor Prime definitely needs to be MR8 or something, especially now that PA doesn't offer it any more.

[Innocent_Flower]

Boltor prime doesn't need a mastery rank requirement any more than the other primes. It needs to be balanced. 

[Davoodoo]

Imo

Raise slash dmg from 5 to 10 for 15 dmg total.

Reduce fire rate from 15 to 12.

Increase crit chance to 35%

 

Raw Damage Per Second :: 24664,276

Fair boost without too much powercreep.

 

While we are at it fix this weapon, either its accurate assault rifle or an inaccurate lmg, reduce accuracy or remove ramp up, tbh either is fine with me.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Edgedemon]

no prime has been mastery locked like ever.

 

hopefully it will be a side grade instead of a direct new Top Dog, so at least we won't be only seeing Boltors or soma but a mix of both.

 

 

then again the last Braton Buff is a good omen, perhaps other older guns will also get a review.

[Edgedemon]

I didn't know that. Huh. Okay, yeah, Boltor Prime definitely needs to be MR8 or something, especially now that PA doesn't offer it any more.

problem with that is that it requires either a duped weapon which screws MR, or a whole new system.  Locking after they are gone is impractical as you can't be sure everyone who brought already passed the new minimum requirements.

[Mokkania]

No, making it mastery rank 8 and having it cost 20 cells, with the parts droping at a 0.04% rate is not the way to go. 

why not 'd need some good mastery lock :( well it's a half joke, still I said it somewhere else I wouldn't mind soma prime being the new powercreep if it were officially garanteed as the last of the last line of powercreep, and nothing would ever go above.

[sanj66]

(and by other prime weapons, I don't mean boltor prime. Nerf that thing) 

 

 

seriously though. We all know the soma for being one of the best guns in the game. An extreme rate of fire. An extreme crit rate. Put that with multishot, crit boost and a crit damage boost and you're unstopable. If you look past it's ammo problems then you've got one of the easest to use weapons in the game. 

 

And you're making a prime version. This is a weapon that's already considered equal to or superior to all the current prime weapons. If you're going to improve on it you might as well throw your other prime weapons away. 

 

No, making it mastery rank 8 and having it cost 20 cells, with the parts droping at a 0.04% rate is not the way to go. 

 

 

What you really need to do is make some kind of trinity between Braton, Boltor and Soma both tenno* and prime. Like different kinds of swords: Equal, but different. 

 

*Braton doesn't have a "Tenno" made version yet. The current braton is corpus. 

 

Boltor Does the most DPS, to ballance it's slow projectile. Keep the ragdoll but reduce the punchthrough. It should do less DPS that it does now, but out of the assault rifles it should do the most damage per second. 

 

Braton does less FPS owing to the fact that it's hitscan and crazy on status chance.

Soma Should be somewhere imbetween. It's hitscan but it doesn't have crazy status chance. It should be between the two in DPS.  

 

 

 

All assault rifles should be ballanced so that: 

 

They don't compete with shotguns at short range. 

Marksman weapons (burston, latron,paris) perform better with a good shot. This isn't just about DPS, This is about number of kills. It doesn't matter that paris can do 40x the damage per shot of the soma if the soma can get five kills before a paris can draw.  (though I suppose that's going to happen anyway with the silly scaling system we have) 

why should the soma prime sit under the boltor prime? the soma is better than the boltor, so by that relevance i would expect the soma prime to be the upper end of the primes, or atleast on par with the boltor prime.

[sanj66]

Alright you already lost my upvote.

 

Soma is not the best weapon in the game, it is the easiest to make good. A new player doesnt need rare mods to make it viable, just serration and crit chance/damage. Without a doubt, there are better weapons. Example? They Sybaris can crank out crits of 17k on lvl 40s while the Soma is plinking away for a few hundred. 

 

Another thing, dont try and get something good nerfed because something else sucks. Shotguns are in dire need of a rebalance, and DE knows that. They first made shotguns when Warframe was alot of running around small, cramped ships. Now with new tilesets and planets, rifles are the way to go. Dont ask for Rifles to be nerfed because shotguns suck, ask for shotguns to be better.

 

The squeaky wheel goes the oil.

i would not say its the easiest to make good, it needs 4 forma at least, and the boltor prime doesnt need rare mods except lets say heavy cal, and splitchamber, vile acc if you want to, and its better out the box, the opticor as well, out the box its killing potential is better, and i ran mines with speed trigger alone for a while and it dropped everything in my way. but yea agree on shotguns, i only see people using the hek now because they got the scattered justice mod and even that is rare, its a dying race of weapons.

[Innocent_Flower]

why should the soma prime sit under the boltor prime? the soma is better than the boltor, so by that relevance i would expect the soma prime to be the upper end of the primes, or atleast on par with the boltor prime.

You didn't understand the post it seems. 

 

The soma and boltor should be equal. Different, but equal. 

 

Therefore the soma prime and boltor prime should be equal. Different, but equal. 

 

The boltor prime is currently overpowered and needs a nerf. 

 

The soma prime should be equal to all other primes. All primes are roughly equal in difficulty to get. There shouldn't be one that's objectively better. 

[blade00000009]

TL;DR OP TALKS ABOUT BOLTOR PRIME BEING OVERPOWERED (Stupid I know) PEOPLE AND OP TALK ABOUT A WEAPON THAT IS NOT EVEN OUT OP MOSTLY BEGS DE TO NOT MAKE IT OVERPOWERED. Rest of thread repeats and some stuff with DE thrown in there like Steve made fake files because he is sick of data mining and Damage with other prime weapons blah blah blah. 

[TrinityPrime]

To understand the future; one only need look at the past. 

 

The present too. There's stuff that's been out of ballance for years. 2.5% status chance mods, anyone? 

 

Ya, I guess.  But their focus is generally on new weapons and mods instead of balancing the old. If they did it would be like holding a tray of marbles on a moving bus while trying to prevent them from deviating to far from their original positions or worse end up lumped together into the corners of the tray.  

 

I mean there was the Braton Prime buff but that was really just to shut up the people asking for it for over a year. [size=1]As one of those peeps we now know if we bug them long enough then they will change it :3[/size]

 

But then there's the Gammacor, great weapon but poor damage stats.  A few threads about it after its release and it gets buffed.

 

If it hasn't come across yet then I just want to clearly express that your suggestion is completely premature as if DE_Steve is gonna read this thread and go: *GASP* OMG I completely forgot balancing and power creep existed!  I almost put out a super godly weapon and ruined the game!  You Saved Me Innocent_Flower! You Saved WARFRAME!!!!!!!111oneoneonetwoonehundredandone

[(PSN)NavajoShaman]

No this completely started of as a complaint. Seriously all guns should be balanced? Yea take a braton Mk1 into a T4S and make it to 40. Lol! There is a reason there are more powerful weapons. The only thing i dont like is that more powerful weapons are MR locked. As Far as Im concerned Id love to see a more powerful soma. Makes my heart happy just to think about it.

Edit--- I meant to say i dont like the fact that more powerful weapons are not MR locked. You should have to grind to be able to get anything as powerful as the Boltor Prime.

Edited December 7, 2014 by (PS4)NavajoShaman

[Davoodoo]

No this completely started of as a complaint. Seriously all guns should be balanced? Yea take a braton Mk1 into a T4S and make it to 40. Lol! There is a reason there are more powerful weapons. The only thing i dont like is that more powerful weapons are MR locked. As Far as Im concerned Id love to see a more powerful soma. Makes my heart happy just to think about it.

Dont make me bring my 7 forma mk1 to wave 40 of t4 def once again...

 

But w8, we have latron, braton, boltor, burston and boar from prime primaries.

why boltor is 30% stronger than any other prime rifle and 15% stronger than boar and trivializes all content that is supposed to be balanced??

You say that soma should be even better to trivialize content which de doesnt even want to balance for??

 

No one ever want for mk1 to be as good as boltor.

What ppl want is for primes to be at least close to each other in terms of power, syndicate weapons being close to each other in terms of power, for clan tech to be at least close to each other in terms of power, for argon requiring weapons to be closer to each other in terms of power and finally all other weapons except mk1s being close to each other in terms of power.

 

Thats what tiering is and you might not really know it, since it never existed in warframe.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Davoodoo

[sanj66]

You didn't understand the post it seems. 

 

The soma and boltor should be equal. Different, but equal. 

 

Therefore the soma prime and boltor prime should be equal. Different, but equal. 

 

The boltor prime is currently overpowered and needs a nerf. 

 

The soma prime should be equal to all other primes. All primes are roughly equal in difficulty to get. There shouldn't be one that's objectively better. 

the soma is a higher mr than the normal boltor, why should they be equal? that just makes the point of having a higher mr irrelevant, i.e. what is the point of getting to mr 6 to get a soma, when a boltor at a lower mr is equal to it, difference in mechanics would be pointless when the killing potential is the same, that just feeds play style. that is why i said why should a soma which is better than a normal boltor in terms of killing potential and dps be made weaker in terms of its dps than a boltor prime for its prime variant. in that sense it means he just wants a cosmetic change to it. and no all primes are not equal in difficulty to get, i can make 20 sets of fang primes, yet with running more keys to get parts for a scindo i was only able to make 1. even prime weapons are tiered in difficulty to obtain and performance, you might say its because it was part of the new pa pack it was harder but i made a hikou prime set on the first day of pa, had spare parts to help friends and even sell to others. by your logic then there should be no weapon objectively better, then why is there the whole point of mastery rank locks on weapons? from what you can see the whole prime system seems to be revamped and improved versions of a non prime weapon/gear, with normal weapons not sitting on equal terms with each other, it is impossible to make prime variants comparative to each other to make none objectively stronger. i understood what he meant, but based on the non prime dps comparison why should the prime version of a soma have less dps than the prime version of a boltor, when the original versions have a reversed situation.

[Celestias]

I see nothing wrong with a new prime weapon breaking boundaries and limits. Thats the whole damn point of progression! 

 

There was the Hek, Normal Boltor and Kunai/Despair, Torid and Gorgon. Soma Later on, Boltor prime after. Each weapon pushed the boundaries more and allowed both us and the Devs to enjoy that awesome "this gun kicks &#!" moment. 

 

Why are you all bent up on the new gun putting the last one to shame when the game is still being Drawn out? When we start nearing the areas of Mastery rank 28 to 30 things like game balance and weapon tiers wills no doubt be whole and well designed concepts. You can't do that if the game's incomplete.

 

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm going to simply enjoy the new primes and whatever boundaries they push

[Innocent_Flower]

No this completely started of as a complaint. Seriously all guns should be balanced? Yea take a braton Mk1 into a T4S and make it to 40. Lol! There is a reason there are more powerful weapons. The only thing i dont like is that more powerful weapons are MR locked. As Far as Im concerned Id love to see a more powerful soma. Makes my heart happy just to think about it.

Yeah man. I totaly wanted mk1 to be equal to dragon aksoma prime.That's what I meant by balance

 

Sheesh.

Weapons with similar crafting difficulty should be equal. 

Also: it'd make story sense to have all prime weapons equal to each-other, and all tenno weapons equal to eachother (at least the ones without dex or dragon or vandal or whatever) It'd make gameplay sense to have prime weapons equal to eachother; Since they're about as difficult to build as eachother (or would be, were drop tables not so skewed) 

 

 

The further apart the power levels, the less accessible the game becomes, both to new players who can't play the newer, increasingly powerful content and the old players, who have to make amendments to their gear if they even want a challenge on a lower level game. 

Edited December 6, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[SquirmyBurrito]

Someone beat me to it

 

They dont exactly have the best record of balance

 

See PvP

 

Recent invincibility reworks

 

General power creeps

Irrelevant trash talk

 

Classy

 

I'm pretty sure that PvP is near the bottom on DE's list of priorities.

 

What's wrong with the invincibility reworks?

 

Power creep is just the negative and buzzword-esque way of saying power progression. Power progression is not inherently bad. The issue is that DE hasn't set up a clear tier list so everyone just arbitrarily draws lines and and compares weapons that are clearly not on the same tier.