Is Anyone Else In This Game Bothered That Modding Your Gun Is Almost Always About More Damage.

[Innocent_Flower]

Oh my pistol can handle more points now. I should put on A BETTER HORNET STRIKE

 

What's this cool +projectile speed mode? Ah, who cares, it'l get in the way of my barrel diffusion. 

 

A - slot? Which +90 elemental damage mod do I use. 

 

This gun does crits? I'll add crit chance for more damage, and then crit damage for more damage. Hurrah!

 

This gun has status chance? Better add those mods that increase status chance as well as elemental damage. 

 

Y'know. With the exception of the occasional quickdraw or fire-rate mod if the weapon really badly needs one, chances are you're going to be using the majority of mods to increase your damage if you've got any interest in lategame.

 

And I think the game suffers very heavily from this. If you go to an early game mission without nerfing yourself you're not going to have a great time because of how powerful your weapons are, taking away all challenge. You could accidentally/foolishly play a game above your level and because you've not got enough damage smacked on you won't find a hard game; You'l find an impossible game where you can't kill a lancer. This is especially bad in the infinite-gamemodes like survival or defence where I often find the first 30 minutes being too easy and everything after 45 too hard. Meaning I get a boring half hour till I get that significantly shorter fun-spot (after which I'm promptly chasing off to the extraction). 

 

Moding your gun isn't something based on what you'd like (unless you're early-game), but a mathematical process in which you try to get the most DPS. 

 

If we didn't have such an extreme gap between low and high damage, You could play a hard mission in the solar system without needing to mod yourself with a 1200% damage increase. Playing a high level game with low level gear would just be extremely challenging, not impossible, whilst playing a low level game with high level gear would give you an huge advantage but nothing would die from a single bullet scratch, so you wouldn't be ruining the game for yourself or team. DE are doing a really poor job with ballancing everything at the moment and that's because you just can't balance something with numbers this wild. 

 

Just simple things like reducing the effectiveness/increasing the cost of +damage mods. Adding a cap of how much elemental you can put on a weapon. Increasing the effectiveness of mods that give us reload speed or bigger clip sizes, more range, less falloff, faster projectiles, special misc effects, windup changes, accuracy changes, sound changes, Bow specific mods, missile specific mods, sniper specific mods. Explosive specific mods. Downed player specific mods... This plus damage singlemindedness that we have is the reason why we don't have cool mods like "cluster explosives" or "leave area of damage under the explosion like a napalm/tar moa" or "bouncing projectiles" Because DE knows we won't use them in favour of just doing more damage. 

Edited December 22, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[Insidiatorii]

So, TL;DR, you want more fun mods for weapons? If so, I agree. +1

[Lukap99]

Modding for better damage isn't always bad. A lot of games do it and people can still enjoy those games.

I am however bothered that most of the time it's "how many bonuses can I fit into my gun to make it better". Sure, you get the occasional "Magnetic/toxin because Corpus, slash/radiation because infested and radiation/viral/corrosion because grineer." but 90% of the time it's the "essential" mods fault.

It's also harder for DE to balance everything because they have to take into account varying levels of damage. Meanwhile in a game like Crysis 2/3 each gun is already at their max damage, and the mods only slightly change the gun to fit to your playstyle.

[Hybridon]

The main problem is on enemy infinite scaling, plus the fact that to reap out the most rewards on these missions the best is to stay longer... kills variety.

[Sasquatchias]

+1, always a fan of lowering our overall damage output. 

 

And I realize we're supposed to be SUPER NINJA WARRIORS OF THE FUTURE IN SPACE, but that doesn't have to mean that it should take one bullet on an automatic weapon to kill one mob who can't even fight back with significant damage.

[Thaumatos]

There's no other reason to mod your weapons for maximum damage and slaughter everything.  The other mods don't make a significant enough impact on the outcome of the mission or your experience as a player.

 

Mod for status effects like blast and knock them down, or just get more damage to kill them immediately?

Mod for quicker fire rate and eat your ammo, or just get more damage per round and save ammo?

Mod for accuracy and land more shots, or just get more damage and use the same amount of ammo?

Mod for reload speed and reload more often with less damage, or just get more damage and need to reload less?

Mod for more ammo and take longer to kill targets, or just get more damage and kill quicker?

 

The real question is, would you rather one-shot something or not?  That's what Warframe comes down to.  Everything outside of phenomenally unbalanced endless defense missions gets one-shot.

[Shifted]

Maybe not so about lowering the damage output but rather removing the "must-have" mods.

Gives us more space to play around with what we want from a gun rather than giving up slots for stuff that's necessary.

 

I'm repeating myself for the bazillionth time, but serration (and all of it's kind) needs to be integrated into weapons, one rank per 3 levels.

Multishot is also in a weird position, most of the time it's simply double the damage. No idea how to fix it though.

 

 

-snip-

I'm sorry but this post is completely bonkers.

 

YES the mods have a significant impact on my experience as a player.

Some weapons are insufferable without extra firerate or reload speed.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Shifted

[Infamo]

 - Remove damage of elemental/slash/punc... mods

 - Boost damage only mods

[Insidiatorii]

really poor job with ballancing everything at the moment and that's because you just can't balance something with numbers this wild. 

 

Just simple things like reducing the effectiveness/increasing the cost of +damage mods. Adding a cap of how much elemental you can put on a weapon. Increasing the effectiveness of mods that give us reload speed or bigger clip sizes, more range, less falloff, faster projectiles, special misc effects, windup changes, accuracy changes, sound changes, Bow specific mods, missile specific mods, sniper specific mods. Explosive specific mods. Downed player specific mods... This plus damage singlemindedness that we have is the reason why we don't have cool mods like "cluster explosives" or "leave area of damage under the explosion like a napalm/tar moa" or "bouncing projectiles" Because DE knows we won't use them in favour of just doing more damage. 

I completely agree here, except for reducing the +damage mods, since some weapons do EXTREMELY low damage, that boost (sometimes) doesn't do much on a specific weapon. DE needs to spend more time INTO BALANCING Warframe and not creating power creeps the size of Jupiter.

[(PSN)MakoPriest]

This ........this is almost the same thing you said in the boltor post but without the nerf parts.

 

 - Remove damage of elemental/slash/punc... mods

 - Boost damage only mods

That would basically mean damage 3.0 . 

Edited December 22, 2014 by (PS4)MakoPriest

[Makya]

First.. Moar Dakka!

 

Second.. If you make them cost more.. Add more Forma. 6-8 Forma builds for peak Dakka!

 

Third.. If you limit Damage types... Then stack elements and current damage types. If you cap those, and have space improve Firerate.. Finished with that? Shorten reload time and increase mag for longer Dakka Shootin time!

 

Do you see a pattern here? It isn't /just/ about +Damage, it is about +DPS. WoL is for when a weapon only needs <8 slots to face roll common content. You will see QoL mods in a weapon while on the starchart. If you look at someone who focuses on things NOT related to endless.. you will likely see alot of QoL as the +DPS isn't noticeable anymore.

[Dhrekr]

I'm not bothered by it. I mod my guns as a function of the matches I'm planning to do. It just happens that most of them are against extremely bullet-spongy enemies.

[-FrostByte-]

uh... my shotguns arnt modded for more "damage" but for status so my team can come up right behind me and clean them up

[V0LK]

It bothers me since Mods 2.0 was introduced. Current system does not provide room for any imagination. Every build is a damage build with very minor variations. DE did not even release a weapon, and I'm already know what will I put in it. Once you maxed Serration, Multishots out - you can safely forget about two slots. These mods can be just passive upgrades at this point.

 

Why not just go in that direction? Weapon damage could scale with lvl, and we could pick a perk(Punch Through, Bigger Magazine etc) say once in 10 levels. Then add some really interesting mods, like more headshot damage, extra damage if enemy is on lover ground etc.

[Thaumatos]

uh... my shotguns arnt modded for more "damage" but for status so my team can come up right behind me and clean them up

Except your team would have finished them off without your status effects.  They'd be better off if you had pumped your damage and caused them to use less time and ammo killing targets.

[DSpite]

This is once again the Rock/Paper/Scissors argument.

 

If DE keeps throwing hordes of Scissors, why are people surprised we keep playing Rock?

 

Every time I have done MR tests I've never modded for damage, I modded for utility. Large magazines to not have to reload, recoil reduction mods, fast reload etc etc, because the mobs/targets do not have a bazillion health.

 

You either mitigate incoming damage or it kills you. Why would people NOT mod for damage when possible? If I could mod to Proc Cold 100% of the time, I'd put it on a fast spray gun, totally ignore damage mods, and on rescue/sabotage/spy missions, just run through the place freezing everything for a few seconds instead of killing them.

 

Whatever works "best" is what people will mod for.

[Innocent_Flower]

 - Remove damage of elemental/slash/punc... mods

 - Boost damage only mods

The horror. 

 

This ........this is almost the same thing you said in the boltor post but without the nerf parts.

 

That would basically mean damage 3.0 . 

I don't see the relation. One's about three weapons that need their base stats tweaked. This is about mods. The only thing they have in common is OP-damage. You could do them completely seperately. 

 

Damage 3.0. You're making it sound like an upgrade. 

 

Maybe not so about lowering the damage output but rather removing the "must-have" mods.

Gives us more space to play around with what we want from a gun rather than giving up slots for stuff that's necessary.

 

I'm repeating myself for the bazillionth time, but serration (and all of it's kind) needs to be integrated into weapons, one rank per 3 levels.

Multishot is also in a weird position, most of the time it's simply double the damage. No idea how to fix it though.

 

 

 

I'm sorry but this post is completely bonkers.

I agree. Your Post is completely bonkers. 

 

Seration intergrated in levels would make it even harder for a player with everything to enjoy lower down content, or a player with nothing to enjoy higher. 

[Thaumatos]

This is once again the Rock/Paper/Scissors argument.

 

If DE keeps throwing hordes of Scissors, why are people surprised we keep playing Rock?

 

Every time I have done MR tests I've never modded for damage, I modded for utility. Large magazines to not have to reload, recoil reduction mods, fast reload etc etc, because the mobs/targets do not have a bazillion health.

 

You either mitigate incoming damage or it kills you. Why would people NOT mod for damage when possible? If I could mod to Proc Cold 100% of the time, I'd put it on a fast spray gun, totally ignore damage mods, and on rescue/sabotage/spy missions, just run through the place freezing everything for a few seconds instead of killing them.

 

Whatever works "best" is what people will mod for.

One-shotting things always works best.

 

I dont care how long your freeze, knockdown, stun, confuse, [insert effect here] lasts.  In the end, the mob is still alive and when you run out of ammo, it can still kill you.

 

With a maximum damage scenario, it's dead.  Period.  End of discussion.

 

And guess what?  You get rewards/loot/xp for killing things.  You don't get rewards/loot/xp for CC-ing a target for 5 hours.  With how grind-y this game is getting, you're going to want the kills to pile up quickly.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Thaumatos

[-FrostByte-]

Except your team would have finished them off without your status effects.  They'd be better off if you had pumped your damage and caused them to use less time and ammo killing targets.

 

 

uh...... go try runing 2 hours of t4s

 

because even at the maximium dps of most weapons it would not be able to clear rooms anymore.

 

thats why i take a status only shotgun to help soften them up so my team mates can finish them

[Thomatos]

DE needs to really rethink their modding feature - All I see on guides are the same mods with different elemental mods swapped around for different types of enemies; where's the creativity in that? Good games gives players REAL choices but it seems to be OPTIMAL means having no choice but to slap those mods on.

 

Most rifle guides i see has serration, heavy caliber, split chamber all the time and this is getting quite lame.

 

My suggestion:

 

Elemental mods should be reworked to being more useful other than just contributing ultimately to damage;

 

- proc an elemental effect which damage is scaled according to the rank of the weapon

- rank of the mod produces upgraded effects of the elemental mod e.g. Rank 0 Ice elemental mods procs a slow effect while max procs freeze effect

 

My point being, elemental mods' main use should not always contribute to DPS but more ultility wise e.g. crowd control etc. That gives more choice for people who want to use their weapon full-time for CC.

 

Let's say we have 10 mod slots for a primary assault rifle:

 

3 slots for damage, critical strike/multiplier and fire rate. This makes the player think which mod is more important for the weapon rather than giving them 8 whole slots to slap everything on.

 

5 slots for non-dmg enhancements, they should help the player create their own way of using the weapon. The main aim here is not for damage anymore, e.g. reload time, holster speed, zoom in enhancement, hush, recoil etc. 

 

Last 2 slots will be Elemental mod slots (which can be increased by forma for example) for the elemental mod idea mentioned above. Again this is aimed not necessarily for damage but more for survivability.

 

This way more builds can be created; for stealth, CC, etc

 

DE can learn a thing from Call of Duty; as their weapon attachments dont just say "+ damage". 

 

Except your team would have finished them off without your status effects.  They'd be better off if you had pumped your damage and caused them to use less time and ammo killing targets.

 

 

Our user names tho :P

Edited December 22, 2014 by Thomatos

[Thaumatos]

uh...... go try runing 2 hours of t4s

 

because even at the maximium dps of most weapons it would not be able to clear rooms anymore.

 

thats why i take a status only shotgun to help soften them up so my team mates can finish them

 

I don't care how effective you are with anything once you get past level 60 mobs.  The game isn't meant to be balanced at that level.  Once you get to obscenely high levels, you're extremely limited in how you can play.  Even so, status effects are not how most people do it.  They use warframe skills to control targets or make themselves invulnerable and, if they can, have the entire group put Corrosive Projection on.  (I guarantee your team benefits more from CC at that level than they ever will from that shotty...what frames are you running?)

 

Some frames are admittedly better at surviving than others, but that has no bearing on your mod selection.  You're able to do those missions solely because of what the frames provide...an unfettered amount of difficulty-neutralizing bonuses.

 

More to the point, during what DE considers "balanced" gameplay, I one-shot everything everywhere with every weapon.  Some balance...

Edited December 22, 2014 by Thaumatos

[Shion963]

I love playing with my Entropy Spike + 150% multishot + blast element + status chance + magazine size + reload Bolto. Don't even have a spot to put Hornet Strike in, it'll only get in the way of explosability.

But only for non-endless missions in <30 level zones.

Enemy stat scaling is the issue here, since they compel us to get more damage to do anything other that tickle them. I don't mind hordes of squishy mooks or small number of elites, but high level content means hordes of elites. All the ammo capacity in the world won't help you handle them. Damage will. Learned that the first time I fought level 45 Elite Lancers.

[Thaumatos]

Our user names tho :P

Omg.

 

I thought I was being trolled! :p

[Donnell]

There are certain mods that are vital to make it remotely useful. I too would like to see more room for augments or attachments that change playstyle, not power.

(What exactly, i dont know but yeah... +1)

[Monolake]

weapons are about damage