Business Model (Constructive Advice)

[dsanchez]

DE business model is killing this game, don't get me wrong I love warframe and as a developer myself have an enormous respect for the dev team at DE.

 

That being said I find myself spending more time in a 3+ year old PAID MMO (with not so good graphics) than FREE awesome looking warframe, and after thinking about it I came to the following conclusion:

 

DE's philosophy of charging for time is WRONG and VERY anti-fun, the percentage of the drop tables and dilution makes the player feel he is not playing for fun but that he is wasting time, with no sense of advancement. The MMO will be grindy as hell too, but the endgame stuff always  will drop more than 1 stuff, that means that maybe I wont get what I wanted, but I did get some form of currency or gift that WILL get me something cool (not just a common mod), again this is not about rewards but the expectations of rewards. There are days that I have spent playing warframe all day and got nothing to show for it <- THAT will get players to find another game.

 

Game design theory establishes that you cant make the game either too easy or too hard, and your current business model impacts your player experience hence making your game experience lackluster.

 

Now how do we monetize without impacting game experience? visuals and time windows. Let me explain, for visuals we can go with proto-armor Excalibur, it was awesome and cool, more warframes need that kind of love, for instance I love saryn's kit, but hate the looks why not make a 100-200 plat new model body? I would pay for that, and with a smile on my face, I assure you the player base will pay for cool customization more than for a pattern over the same OLD model. 

 

As for time windows, instead of making everything in the game a huge grind wall why not make new releases plat only for a window of say 2 weeks, that means if prime access goes live today you can only get said primes from a direct buy from you (DE), and 2 weeks later everybody can farm it, that way you can profit and everybody can be happy. same with new warframes you can "BETA" with a reduced population so you can manage the quick fixes in a better and less public way than everybody "RAGIN on da furumzzz".

 

I hope [DE]STEVE reads this cuz i think he is reasonable down to earth awesome guy, and again this is just MY opinion/advice. thanks for reading and apologies for the bad English it is not my main language.

 

PD: can we please get a fricking "/stuck" command? Thanks xD

[rockscl]

I disagree with you, DE´s business model feel properly and respectfully placed in the whole system of items making a sustainable f2p

[Kurrumitsumi]

if you played all day and had nothing to show for it, you either were doing it wrong, or weren't doing anything.

 

i mean making a new weapon for instance, you can have all of the peices in just a few hours or less, while at the same time getting parts for a new frame.

 

i think there business model is fine, and im honestly not seeing any real options that you provide to change it, all you asked for was a more expensive version of something that is already done.

[Kestral9999]

I disagree with you, DE´s business model feel properly and respectfully placed in the whole system of items making a sustainable f2p

I concur.

[dsanchez]

How is it sustainable? with current practices population will drop considerably I would rather pay for subscription with even rng percentages that continuing playing AS IS

[xRufus7x]

Destroying the game is a bit hyperbolic isn't it. Warframe is currently on three platforms and has more players than ever, and they have been using the same model for as long as I can remember.

Edited December 23, 2014 by xRufus7x

[dsanchez]

if you played all day and had nothing to show for it, you either were doing it wrong, or weren't doing anything.

 

i mean making a new weapon for instance, you can have all of the peices in just a few hours or less, while at the same time getting parts for a new frame.

 

i think there business model is fine, and im honestly not seeing any real options that you provide to change it, all you asked for was a more expensive version of something that is already done.

 

I got all frames, all mods and almost every weapon in the game, try farming under those conditions for something very specific and then we will talk

[Kestral9999]

How is it sustainable? with current practices population will drop considerably I would rather pay for subscription with even rng percentages that continuing playing AS IS

I don't think you know what you're talking about and are projecting your personal views as fact.

[EchoesOfRain]

I completely agree. There are VERY few MMO's that I can stand playing, but the one I enjoy most, Dungeon Fighter Online, can keep my attention because there will always be something to do that feels constructive. Even if it's just grinding dungeons over and over again for exp to start the next questline, at least I know that after each dungeon I get closer and closer to my next goal. The endgame of that game is DRASTICALLY different than its early game, and you can easily feel the difference.

 

There are days where I log into Warframe, become unsure of what I even want to do, and then just log off without actually playing. Maxing out a frame/weapon is easily done. A level 30 frame doesn't feel much different from an unranked frame. Bosses are either accessible and too easy, or too difficult to access and have a decent difficulty. They don't drop very many rare, unique, or valuable resources either. Not much difference between early game and end-game other than enemy scaling. I just don't have a reason to want to pop onto Warframe and do another repetitive mission, with the same repetitive enemies, with the same repetitive goal, for no reward

[Shifted]

that means that maybe I wont get what I wanted, but I did get some form of currency or gift that WILL get me something cool

Uh, void trader?

why not make new releases plat only for a window of say 2 weeks, that means if prime access goes live today you can only get said primes from a direct buy from you (DE), and 2 weeks later everybody can farm it, that way you can profit and everybody can be happy.

They're already doing that, but not directly. just look at mesa. people who dont want to farm it for 2 weeks straight just buy it.

Making it a (even timed) plat exclusive would just create even more S#&$storms than we already have

 

If you've already got everything and got no reason to play then TAKE A DAMN BREAK.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Shifted

[Kestral9999]

I got all frames, all mods and almost every weapon in the game, try farming under those conditions for something very specific and then we will talk

Done and done. Many times. No complaints. 

[Kestral9999]

I completely agree. There are VERY few MMO's that I can stand playing, but the one I enjoy most, Dungeon Fighter Online, can keep my attention because there will always be something to do that feels constructive. Even if it's just grinding dungeons over and over again for exp to start the next questline, at least I know that after each dungeon I get closer and closer to my next goal. The endgame of that game is DRASTICALLY different than its early game, and you can easily feel the difference.

 

There are days where I log into Warframe, become unsure of what I even want to do, and then just log off without actually playing. Maxing out a frame/weapon is easily done. A level 30 frame doesn't feel much different from an unranked frame. Bosses are either accessible and too easy, or too difficult to access and have a decent difficulty. They don't drop very many rare, unique, or valuable resources either. Not much difference between early game and end-game other than enemy scaling. I just don't have a reason to want to pop onto Warframe and do another repetitive mission, with the same repetitive enemies, with the same repetitive goal, for no reward

All of that has nothing to do with the business model and everything to do with lack of endgame. Which DE is actively working to rectify, unless they are lying in their devstreams.

[Grayphilosopher]

I was with you all the way up until "why not make new releases plat only for a window of say 2 weeks".

 

I think DE's current business model is fine. Everything that affects your performance is available through gameplay, cosmetics, fluff and convenience is purchasable in their cash shop.

 

If there's anything I'd alter it's the gameplay reward system. RNG has the potential to be incredibly dis satisfactory because of its unpredictability. I would much rather have it so if I want a certain item, there's a certain place where I can be guaranteed to get it, if I can complete the objective required to get it. 

 

Example: 
X mod drops from enemy Y, but enemy Y only shows up in the Z tileset.

Because enemy Y is a specialist enemy designed to flush out Tenno, they only spawn after you achieve a ship lockdown.

 

So, a puzzle/objective wall with guaranteed results, rather than an easy but unpredictable grindwall. 

[NN13]

How is it sustainable? with current practices population will drop considerably I would rather pay for subscription with even rng percentages that continuing playing AS IS

The day Subscription is added to Warframe,I am out...Sorry,but I have to disagree with you on this one...DE is one of those companies who actually made a successful F2P game. I have seen it grow from Update 9(Nova Update) till now, and grew to a whole new level with the number of players rapidly increasing. I have seen this type of huge achievement in such a small period of time in very few games,Warframe being in the top of those games. Hell,Warframe even won the Ultimate F2P Showdown conducted by MMOBomb.com(defeating Smite I think).

[rockscl]

I completely agree. 

 

WHAT THE HEK, you didnt agree a single point of what the OP said, you are just blaming endgame, wich is a known issue for every player that at least knows what is wf`s endgame

 

making that point clear

 

 

How is it sustainable? with current practices population will drop considerably I would rather pay for subscription with even rng percentages that continuing playing AS IS

 

that is your conjecture, their strategy has been working up to now since their numbers keep wf in the top ten of steam, without even known how many players they have out of steam, and like the guy above said, DE is one of few companies that has made a successful f2p game

 

Also, theres even chinese people in this forum, i think the real wf numbers are greatly out of the steamchart`s wf`s range

Edited December 23, 2014 by rockscl

[Kestral9999]

The day Subscription is added to Warframe,I am out...

Same here. I have 0 issues with allocating money for the prime access accessories every month to sate my inner customization/collection fetish, but when even a percentage of that money becomes an obligation just to play the game, I'm done.

 

Why? Simple. I do NOT endorse pay to play games on a fundamental level. Charge me once for the game? Fine. Charge me a few times later to get more content with each payment? Fine. At least it's optional. But when you start charging me a monthly fee, it gives me the impression that you view your game above those others, thinking that your game is a work of art that must be paid for constantly in order to be experienced.

 

Don't get me wrong, I realize that game servers and developer staff don't just work for free, but Warframe has one of the best business models in the industry. All things that affect gameplay can be attained for free if you're willing to put in the time and effort. If not, you have the option of attaining them with in game currency. I feel like I'm willingly funding the developer, it gives me complete free will over my expenditures. Warframe also took a big risk with their business model. If one day everyone simply stopped buying platinum, the company would fail by the end of that month or so.

 

RNG could certainly use some work, but that's a different conversation entirely. All that being said, I'm aware that OP didn't suggest adding a subscription fee, but that's the other business model option that they could have gone with and I'm so very glad they shirked that in favor of a risky F2P model that required them putting a lot of trust in their players. It payed off for all parties involved if you ask me.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Kestral9999

[taiiat]

i don't think we should be telling Digital Extremes they should go and make the same mistakes that those games that you're paying a Subscription for have made.

 

and that's all i have to say about that.

[dsanchez]

i don't think we should be telling Digital Extremes they should go and make the same mistakes that those games that you're paying a Subscription for have made.

 

and that's all i have to say about that.

WOW I was not saying they should add subscription, just that RNG was so badly tweaked to maximize profits that its just as bad as a subscription

[vaugahn]

Personally, I think this game has one of the best F2P models out there. 

 

And the whole "player count will drop" thing is just silly. The player count has done nothing but rise.

[taiiat]

-snip-

nor did i say that you said that Warframe should have a Subscription.

 

you make a lot of drastic conjectures, don't you?

[jrainbowfist]

, just that RNG was so badly tweaked

 

RNG is pretty bad on certain things (Vauban and Mesa for example). Although I still believe that Warframe's current system isn't bad, there are things that can be improved. However, I do not believe that the suggestions made on the first post helps the system.

[ThePredicament]

I love how everyone is suddenly a developer when it comes to trying to give advice. It's funny how it's ok to pay for RNG that's still RNG instead of free RNG. The DE has stated time and time again that not everything should be gotten right away. Obviously, there are guys like us that have every single thing and every time something comes out it's harder to get stuff because we already have everything else but the balance between vets and new players isn't as simple as a one carpet solution.

 

Have to say though, if you aren't having fun farming even when the game has great movement, tons of weapons, tons of stuff to kill, sometimes even challenging gameplay, then that's on you. There are tons of people who enjoy the game and not have their farming become a focus. Chances are you are warframe fatigued, take a break.

[rockscl]

RNG 

 

Rng can be a real issue, yes, rng is making some players upset, but how many of them, how many of them just got used to farm a thing in a single day?

Edited December 23, 2014 by rockscl

[Noteybook]

I completely agree. There are VERY few MMO's that I can stand playing, but the one I enjoy most, Dungeon Fighter Online, can keep my attention because there will always be something to do that feels constructive. Even if it's just grinding dungeons over and over again for exp to start the next questline, at least I know that after each dungeon I get closer and closer to my next goal. The endgame of that game is DRASTICALLY different than its early game, and you can easily feel the difference.

 

There are days where I log into Warframe, become unsure of what I even want to do, and then just log off without actually playing. Maxing out a frame/weapon is easily done. A level 30 frame doesn't feel much different from an unranked frame. Bosses are either accessible and too easy, or too difficult to access and have a decent difficulty. They don't drop very many rare, unique, or valuable resources either. Not much difference between early game and end-game other than enemy scaling. I just don't have a reason to want to pop onto Warframe and do another repetitive mission, with the same repetitive enemies, with the same repetitive goal, for no reward

 

This feeling. It's been Warframe for the past 2 months for me. I couldn't describe Warframe better right now, and that's sad.

[Morty2989]

There are days where I log into Warframe, become unsure of what I even want to do, and then just log off without actually playing.

 

Their business model aside, I just wanted to echo this sentiment. I've been an avid player for two years now but every change as of late feels like we're being punished for something. As is, I'm having an awful hard time justifying the hardrive space for something I once really, really loved. Something has to change.