Remove Primed Ravage,primed Point Blank And Primed Heavy Trauma- And Don't Add More Like Them.

[Quimoth]

well, you cannot go around the point that adding these primed mods isn't really improving warframe. It is simply a reward to those who have over 1k hours in this game since they will be the only people who can afford to max them and even those players will have a hard time maxing them.

 

just to be straight, i like this game, i've got hunderds of hours into it. I am not planning to get to a point of total addiction to this game, so if these primed mods are here to stay as they are, i guess everyone who likes to max out things yet still maintain a normal life next to this game is going to be dissapointed. I wouldn't be suprised if legendary cores are in the market soon, since those are the only way for the majority of the playerbase to max out a primed mod.

 

Just consider the fact that mods themselves are barely fun to max (especially if they are simply a buffed version of a much cheaper version).

 

I'm fine with DE adding end-game mods, but there is no end-game... and if there will be one soon, they are probably still not worth spending 1.8mil credits and a S#&$ load of primeparts on.

 

I wonder if anyone could calculate the estimated play time you need to obtain just the credits for these primed mods (i guess it is more then a full day)

[_FrostPrime_]

Just realised i'd written heavy impact rather than heavy trauma. Fixed that. 

 

 

To the naysayers; This really isn't about "me not liking said mods because I don't want to wait more weeks for more powerful ones", and if you've posted that, you've failed to understand how a lot of people try to provide feedback; Not biased by only their own possition in game. 

 

I don't like these mods because

 

- They seem like bandaids to good balancing

- Said bandaids are coated in infectious substances to worsen balancing

- There is no ingame missions that are needing these primed damage mods. We've got more than enough. These are just bloat for an endgame that doesn't exist. 

- These mods are chosen arbitrarily. Anything with five ranks of any rarity seems to do. 

- The randomness of some of these mods (heavy trauma is pretty specific to only a few weapons) shows that DE are going to pump out not just a few legendary mods, but many legendary mods. Meaning that:

- The cycle of primed mods is going to be really f***ing long. It's going to take several months for primed continuity to apear again.

- We're going to need more cores than we can currently obtain over a reasonably long period. More credits than most (especialy outside of PVP clans) can obtain too. 

 

Void Trader is in no way, shape, or form, a part of core gameplay. He's in every aspect of the word, a convenience. Nothing more. We really have no place to say anything about what he offers us. Why? Guess what. DE gave us exactly what we needed with him. Like everything else, he can be tweaked to be a more pleasing part of the game. But Baro Ki'teer has NOTHING to do with the meat of the game. He's only the peas on the side of the plate not a lot of people want to finish.

 

If anybody can even attempt to tell me I'm wrong in any way here. Please. Do so. Give me something to laugh at.

Edited January 12, 2015 by littlewomba

[taiiat]

How would your suggestion improve the game at all?

how does adding unfounded Statcrepe without any justification improve the game at all?

 

they theoretically fix inconsistency problems with certain Mods - but do it in an extremely inconsistent way.

they're obviously there for Resource sinks, which we absolutely need - but they're absolutely the wrong Sink.

 

no meaningful choices that Players opt into, just bigger numbers. and why bigger numbers? there is no why.

Edited January 12, 2015 by taiiat

[Innocent_Flower]

Void Trader is in no way, shape, or form, a part of core gameplay. He's in every aspect of the word, a convenience. Nothing more. We really have no place to say anything about what he offers us. Why? Guess what. DE gave us exactly what we needed with him. Like everything else, he can be tweaked to be a more pleasing part of the game. But Baro Ki'teer has NOTHING to do with the meat of the game. He's only the peas on the side of the plate not a lot of people want to finish.

 

If anybody can even attempt to tell me I'm wrong in any way here. Please. Do so. Give me something to laugh at.

This monologue seems rather.. villainous. I'm rather imagining you to be an evil (slightly fabulous) aristocrat complaining about the whines of peasants. 

 

DE has not given us 'exactly what we needed with him' 

[Llyssa]

It's a resource sink for those of us that need a resource sink. It gives some mild, albeit, tangible rewards, none of which are actually "required" for gameplay, but can be of use.

 

Whining about how it isn't something that unbalances the game in favor of older players is missing the point entirely. It's not meant to be something you MUST GET, it's fluff for collectors and people with years of play time under their belt.

[Phatose]

Just as importantly, the game is meant to be balanced heavily in favor of longer term players.  This is not a problem - this is the game's design.

 

It's no different then any Diablo like or MMO.   The guy with 1000 hours should beat the guy with 100 every time.  Nature of the beast.

[Spartan0804]

There is no primed Heavy Impact, not even in plans (and Its a garbage barely working mod too)

 

 

 

They did it for cores/creditd sinks - upgrades but very costly ones, so the highlevel players will have something to grind for.

^ I think they meant Primed Heavy Trauma. 

 

I don't actually think removing them from the game would be constructive at all but giving a buff to both versions might be a better choice. If Shotguns are meant to be getting a buff soon then DE is simply preparing us for said buff. Removing them from the rotation however might be something that isn't impossible and instead implement another way of obtaining said mods. 

[zoboso]

It's no different then any Diablo like or MMO.   The guy with 1000 hours should beat the guy with 100 every time.  Nature of the beast.

 

This should be true, but not because of the loot system, the player with 1000 hours should have picked up a skills that the guy with 100 does not, DE does not need to futher compound this with the loot system.

[Thaumatos]

I don't see it happening. Removing those mods would remove any work that people have put towards them, including the credit sink, core sink, and ducat cost. They could  stop putting them in, but even then, I don't see it happening.

Even though I don't necessarily agree with removing all primed mods, refunding them would be easy.

 

Give anyone who invested in them a refund in credits and ducats...and then one legendary fusion core for every primed mod.

[Phatose]

This should be true, but not because of the loot system, the player with 1000 hours should have picked up a skills that the guy with 100 does not, DE does not need to futher compound this with the loot system.

 

No, you're thinking of a pure action game.  This isn't one of those.

 

D3 has paragon levels, gems without level requirements, hellfire rings and amulets.  D2 had uniques with no level requirements.  Borderlands has badass ranks. 

 

All of them went on the same simple principle of all loot quests games - you need to have a good reason to want the loot, and what you have has a huge impact on how you'll do.  And getting loot means spending time.

 

Nature of the beast.  It's a time sink game, and that means the guy who sunk the time in wins. 

[Thaumatos]

Void Trader is in no way, shape, or form, a part of core gameplay. He's in every aspect of the word, a convenience. Nothing more. We really have no place to say anything about what he offers us. Why? Guess what. DE gave us exactly what we needed with him. Like everything else, he can be tweaked to be a more pleasing part of the game. But Baro Ki'teer has NOTHING to do with the meat of the game. He's only the peas on the side of the plate not a lot of people want to finish.

 

If anybody can even attempt to tell me I'm wrong in any way here. Please. Do so. Give me something to laugh at.

Sure, I'll give you something to laugh at.

 

The fact that you think anyone has 'a place' or 'no place' to criticize anything based on your own opinion of something is laughable.

 

More to the OP's point, priming mods and putting them on a 2-week rotation is not a good way of balancing poorly implemented content.  DE puts a lot of effort in everything they do.  I'd honestly like to see them put some towards a proper re-balancing of mods, damage, base stats, and progression.  I think Steve kinda touched on it in Devstream 44.  Not sure how in-depth it will be though.

 

I don't agree with the idea of removing primed mods entirely, but I also don't think that all primed mods should come from the void trader and I don't think that they're a proper method to balance needlessly weak mods.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Thaumatos

[_FrostPrime_]

Sure, I'll give you something to laugh at.

 

The fact that you think anyone has 'a place' or 'no place' to criticize anything based on your own opinion of something is laughable.

 

What opinion? You took something I stated out of context to fit it into your debate against me. Doing that doesn't make you smart either.  I may have exaggerated myself, to be fair, saying "it's not our place." But the point still remains the same. We -- as in "we the players of this game" -- got exactly what we wanted when DE released the Void Trader. We wanted a means to get rid of our excess Prime parts and blueprints without outright selling them for plat or credits.

 

The developers gave us exactly that. So what do we do? We whine, we cry, and we complain, that what we got is stupid, it sucks, worthless, simply because we don't like what we got in exchange for our collective excess. Our excuses for this childish behavior was poorly wrapped in a box labeled "reasons." Things like;

 

- DE is giving is band-aid mods (again... something I won't deny but I'm not gonna throw a temper tantrum over it)

 

- DE broke teh balance even wurse. (The game isn't as bad as it is, we just refuse to see the good because we're all selfish individuals)

 

- DE didn't do et wright. (Please. This isn't even valid... it's one of the oldest excuses in the book now)

 

- DE dudn't du it liek tis uther game. So they did it wrong. (That's not constructive feedback, mentioning another game that did something similar but you preferred it more than this)

 

- The items I do like won't ever be seen again / take years to cycle back to them again. (You can't possibly confirm that. Are you a developer, or a player? Last time I checked... only devs have this knowledge until they spill the beans on it.)

 

- DE isn't balancing anything doing dis. (Yo... I can guarantee if I get a perfectly symmetrical pole that weighs 20lb's, equally 10 pounds on both halves of it, and placed it on top of my head after saying "it won't fall off," you still would not understand what balance actually is.)

 

Tl;Dr: Lot's of people keep throwing words and coined terms around. Most of them aren't using or even choosing their words properly. Think. Above all else. Think, before you act.

 

When I saw Heavy Trauma -- for example -- I thought to myself "Oh... it's a mod I won't ever really use. Cool I'll take it anyway!" Sounds silly right? Well I'm not complaining, even if I agree it's a crap mod to have Primed anyway. Now... what if I didn't want to buy it? Obviously... the ONLY method to react then would be to throw a temper tantrum about the Void Trader and his selection of cycled items rather than simply ignoring it. Right?

Edited January 12, 2015 by littlewomba

[Thaumatos]

 

What opinion? You took something I stated out of context to fit it into your debate against me. Doing that doesn't make you smart either.  I may have exaggerated myself, to be fair, saying "it's not our place." But the point still remains the same. We -- as in "we the players of this game" -- got exactly what we wanted when DE released the Void Trader. We wanted a means to get rid of our excess Prime parts and blueprints without outright selling them for plat or credits.

 

The developers gave us exactly that. So what do we do? We whine, we cry, and we complain, that what we got is stupid, it sucks, worthless, simply because we don't like what we got in exchange for our collective excess. Our excuses for this childish behavior was poorly wrapped in a box labeled "reasons."

You say I took something out of context, but in the context of what I wrote you admit that you exaggerated.  Obviously I didn't take it out of context.  Since you got carried away, so did I.

 

Saying DE "gave us exactly what we need" is the opinion I'm referring to.  Not everyone thinks that is so and a statement like that cannot be substantiated.

 

 

- DE is giving is band-aid mods (again... something I won't deny but I'm not gonna throw a temper tantrum over it)

Negative feedback is not a temper tantrum.  Even though you refuse to recognize it as such, negative feedback is helpful in shaping a worthwhile product.  Fanboy-ism, however, hasn't helped anyone except when scoring points on forums.

 

That being said, temper tantrums do happen...and they are not feedback.

 

- DE broke teh balance even wurse. (The game isn't as bad as it is, we just refuse to see the good because we're all selfish individuals)

Now, refresh my memory, who was it that talked about looking smart in a wall of text?  This bullet point is just another case to make you seem like an upset fanboy.  You can't criticize balance and like a game too?  Nobody is refusing to see the good here.  In fact, those that do usually just leave (or post a massive wall of "I'm leaving" text and then leave).

 

- DE didn't do et wright. (Please. This isn't even valid... it's one of the oldest excuses in the book now)

You're just writing stuff to write stuff?  I know you're upset at criticism, but you're getting carried away again.

 

- DE dudn't du it liek tis uther game. So they did it wrong. (That's not constructive feedback, mentioning another game that did something similar but you preferred it more than this)

People usually compare games they like to other games of the same genre that they also like.  It isn't uncommon and a lot can be said for it.  Look at World of Warcraft.  That game didn't innovate on any level whatsoever.  Blizzard just took every best aspect of every previous MMORPG and incorporated all those ideas into their game.  Guess what?  It became the most successful MMO of all time.

 

And believe me, Blizzard has its own legion of fanboys that will stop at nothing to prove how "original" that company is.

 

- The items I do like won't ever be seen again / take years to cycle back to them again. (You can't possibly confirm that. Are you a developer, or a player? Last time I checked... only devs have this knowledge until they spill the beans on it.)

Sheldon already said they would be cycled.  Chances are the void trader's pattern will change if most people are adverse to it.

 

- DE isn't balancing anything doing dis. (Yo... I can guarantee if I get a perfectly symmetrical pole that weighs 20lb's, equally 10 pounds on both halves of it, and placed it on top of my head after saying "it won't fall off," you still would not understand what balance actually is.)

You're creating a straw man argument again.  This doesn't have any place here.

 

 

Tl;Dr: Lot's of people keep throwing words and coined terms around. Most of them aren't using or even choosing their words properly. Think. Above all else. Think, before you act.

 

When I saw Heavy Trauma -- for example -- I thought to myself "Oh... it's a mod I won't ever really use. Cool I'll take it anyway!" Sounds silly right? Well I'm not complaining, even if I agree it's a crap mod to have Primed anyway. Now... what if I didn't want to buy it? Obviously... the ONLY method to react then would be to throw a temper tantrum about the Void Trader and his selection of cycled items rather than simply ignoring it. Right?

 

 

And here we get to the crux of the problem.  You haven't understood the OP's point.  He's not complaining about junk mods being primed because he doesn't like them.  Re-read it.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Thaumatos

[_FrostPrime_]

Hrm... that's what I get for posting half asleep. Can't even troll properly when I'm grumpy.

 

After re-reading the OP and not just responding to other people...

 

He got what he wanted. The mods were buffed via Primed versions. Like... it's not a vastly game changing deal that the buff involves a separate mod altogether with the same name but higher stats. Simple fact of the matter is we can either choose to use it or not. As I already mentioned we're all selfish individuals... why say this again? Simple. Not all of us particularly care about the credit / resource sink this provides.What I can assume though is basically OP wants these mods downgraded from Legendary back to whatever rarity ranking just to consume less resources into getting them fully powered,

 

It's an innate human thing to be selfish to ourselves. It simply can not be helped even in the most extreme unselfish cases. So it isn't necessarily a bad thing either. But you'd have to think about how the change would effect everybody, in every possible way you can come up with. Like I said... think before you act. The "post reply" button will not be going anywhere, anytime soon.

 

Defeating your own debate shows actual thought behind it assuming you were also thinking about the faults in there as you thought about what you wanted to say. But this isn't relevant... Thoughtception anyone?

Edited January 12, 2015 by littlewomba

[Innocent_Flower]

Darling, I have enough credits to max anything several times over and enough cores to... Well, I'd need more cores. My inumerous t4 captures would help a considerate deal. The problem isn't that I lack the wealth. The problem is: It's stupid. 

 

 

Y'see now the mods I listed would be fine because they'd be

- Highly valued. 

- Interfere with ballance minimaly. I mean the frame mods would primarily just counter corrupt mods. The weapon mods would add more utility which can never really get out of hand. 

- There's a logic to them. Currently the primed mods are all 'Lets prime heavy trauma but not jagged edge or sundering strike" or "here's a utility mod along with an all-powerful damage mod". 

- More damage is the last thing warframe needs. There's nothing left. I can already 1-shot everything, I can't go any lower than that! 

 

It's almost a metaphor for every complaint anyone's ever had against DE. The Randomness is off the wall, The creep is real, The sinks are real, and at time all it's really seems to be all about raw numbers with no meaningful change. There's a wait wall, a grind wall, an RNG wall full of items that are either OP or UP. 

 

I'm obviously not the kind of player who wants everything to benefit him at the expense of others. I'm a madman at R15 who has gone through most of what it currently has to offer, and I cry for nerfs of objects I have and buffs of items I don't. (I bought all the void trader items so far, except for ravage, because it's broke and of little value and can't possibly be useful) 

 

The Void trader is so patheticaly implemented that he sells shoulder and ankle Armour separately. I mean that's just a cherry on top of lazy design designed to hide how scarce his offerings are. 

Edited January 12, 2015 by Innocent_Flower

[Temporary]

I still don't get what all the fuss is about...

They're an improvement on current mods. Whilst I get that some people dont like the order/frequency in which they're being dished out, can't fathom why Point Blank doesnt have the same value as Serration (looking @ you OP), dont have the credits/cores/mods to rank them or believe that these mods somehow break the game by disturbing the balance of WF this doesn't come across as the game breaking deal that it is being made out to be.

I keep on seeing the word bandaid being spouted left right and centre, please elaborate on the specifics of what giving us better mods is actually fixing or breaking.

Obviously its going to be expensive to level them but cores/credits/mods aren't exactly hard to come by so thats a moot point, if you have trouble getting cores/credits/mods go do void defence/survival runs and if you're desperate bang out some invasion missions becuase its pretty damn easy to generate all three of these; if you can't please don't blame it on being a casual player and not having enough time to do it because 30min of doing the right stuff nets you plenty of all 3.

If DE do decide to change primed mods you can safely assume that they will compensate players much the same as when the rank of Steel Charge was increased then decreased and they dished out legendary cores or when they changed warframe abilities from mod cards to being in-built and gave us common/rare fusion cores.

My apologies if anything in this post sounds sarcastic/facetious or if you feel like its a personal attack on you, it isnt, its just a call for answers.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Temporary

[Innocent_Flower]

Have ravage at 5 ranks give 120% crit damage boost, like vital sense for rifles. 10r legendary for 110% damage is just.. Stupid. Rifles have it so easy, why must shotguns have it so hard? 

 

Make Normal point blank the same as serration (10 ranks) (or, y'know, equal to serration, in case serration is changed) 

 

Primed Heavy trauma... 90% extra damage is great. More is overkill, and we have enough overkill. 

 

 

Then of course you have the ridiculously long and unnecessary wait-wall. 

Edited January 12, 2015 by Innocent_Flower

[Temporary]

Have ravage at 5 ranks give 120% crit damage boost, like vital sense for rifles. 10r legendary for 110% damage is just.. Stupid. Rifles have it so easy, why must shotguns have it so hard? 

 

Make Normal point blank the same as serration (10 ranks) (or, y'know, equal to serration, in case serration is changed) 

 

Primed Heavy trauma... 90% extra damage is great. More is overkill, and we have enough overkill. 

 

 

Then of course you have the ridiculously long and unnecessary wait-wall. 

The reason both Ravage & Point Blank are lower is because rifles fire one bullet (without multishot) not the 4-10 pellets (without multishot) that shotguns do, so more bullets/pellets = more damage/chance to crit; lets completely overlook the fact that multishot essentially doubles the bullets/pellets so whilst rifles get 2 bullets (10% chance to not fire an extra bullet) shoguns get a minimum of 8*/maximum of 22 pellets (depends on the shotgun and its 120% guaranteed(not including the hek which tops out @ 29* with the syndicate mod) its simple math and common sense.

There hasn't been an event that gives us impact damage as a reward yet so its not exactly overkill when compared to puncture/slash combinations we already have, we currently need more impact because it is falling behind so i think it was a smart decision on DE's part.

I agree that the wait sucks but time = credits/cores/mods/prime parts so its not that big a deal being forced to wait.

*rounded down the pellet count because I dont know if DE rounds up or down.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Temporary

[Innocent_Flower]

snip

I'm fairly sure that increasing multishot adds to status chance and damage, but keeps crit chance the same... 

 

Well, Each individual bullet crits seperately. This is no different for rifles or shotguns. The complete damage and status chance is divided amoungst the pellets/bullets. 

 

So, If having 30% more multishot max from mods was really an issue, the penalty ravage gets in comparison to vital sense should still be pretty small. 

Edited January 12, 2015 by Innocent_Flower

[_FrostPrime_]

- More damage is the last thing warframe needs. There's nothing left. I can already 1-shot everything, I can't go any lower than that! 

 

Naw. How else am I going to be able to make leaderboard attempts in T4 Defence runs? If it weren't for the "randoms are bad and / or stupid" (which is often true anyway) general thought, I'd be hitting 70+ Waves every other run.

 

I just wish DE would seriously stop doing things we DO NOT want... sometimes that's okay. But every other patch now that isn't simply a massive bug fix.... they do something.... we don't want... at all. So what did they do? Putting Nullifiers in the Void.

 

Have they attempted to fix the Corrupt variants to be on par with the Corpus' null shield? No. It's unbearable...

Edited January 12, 2015 by littlewomba

[OneMember]

Ravage- Buff the original primed point blank. Y'know the rifle version offers 120% for only five ranks. 

 

Primed point blank- Buff the original point blank (or change the mechanics)

 

Primed Heavy trauma- The original is powerful enough, and this is a very specific mod that's only recommended for less than a third of melee weapons. It suggests that you're going to prime every-fukin five rank mod regardless of how numerous they are or the imbalances they may cause.

 

...

Shotguns are so weak at the end game so Primed Ravage and Primed Point Blank are what they need. They no way should be removed.

 

Primed Heavy Trauma is good resource sink as it's good for like 2-4 melee weapons... but it won't make them OP.

[letir]

Shotguns need buffed PB and Ravage, not another step with Power Creep.

 

Jet Kitty is alredy strongest blunt weapon... well, we can't have too much damage, yeah?

[CherryRammer]

LMFAO my sentinel's sweeper has been WRECKING with these new primed shotgun mods.

Primed Heavy Trauma just made "Hammer Time" at an all time fun.

 

Don't like them, don't use them.

[UltimateSpinDash]

The prime mods screw with balance quite hard. Given how Steve commented on the 4 to kill everything powers being gated by Energy during Vivergate, the fact that primed Streamline is to come kinda contradicts that.

 

Also, priming =/= buffing.

 

Shotguns are so weak at the end game so Primed Ravage and Primed Point Blank are what they need. They no way should be removed.

 

Primed Heavy Trauma is good resource sink as it's good for like 2-4 melee weapons... but it won't make them OP.

They could've given the normal Point Blank 10 ranks, bringing it in line with serration and hornet strike.

Edited January 12, 2015 by UltimateSpinDash

[Ryjeon]

Welcome to the feedback forums.

 

Where "DELETE EVERYTHING" is considered constructive criticism.

 

 

Don't forget "STOP RELEASING CONTENT!"

 

Heh, your comment just gave me a chuckle. Really it's a fair discussion going on over these mod. I agree with the guy who says Primed Reflex Coil would be a good addition as an expensive upgrade to niche channeling builds as opposed to not fixing core damage mods like Point Blank and Ravage.