Why Do People Think High Mastery Rank = Good?

[MaverickZero]

This thread keeps going on for absolutely no reason. You can keep shouting your ears off that asking for certain MR for missions is unfair but it will fall on deaf ears. Not because players are arrogant/ignorant but because you are wrong. Sure, you will remember how Snydrex sucked on that T4D because 'He's MR 18 and I expect good performance from him'. The same happens when a rank 4 player saves your butts in a dire situation because 'He's a new player who is performing very well'. Those are the outliers and are not representative of the main body of players. The fact that you have those expectations from high/low MR players tells you that MR does in fact have merit. It's also reinforced by experience as you go through the game. You expect high MR players to be good because they should be after spending more time playing. You don't expect low MR players to perform well because they probably don't have experience with all the different parts of the game and have less mods/mastery of their gear. 

There's no other info available on the fly to help you decide if Player XYZ is good enough for whatever content you're attempting. The closest we get is MR so swallow that bitter pill and try not to complain.

 

I've done T4 mission with players ranging from MR0 to MR18. From my experience it's easier with groups of MR 7 and above. Not because they have mad skills or amazing aim but because they are more than likely familiar with this content/difficulty/objective and the weapon/frame they are using.

 

This has been brought up so many times and to be honest mostly by people on the lower end of the spectrum. What ends up happening is that you advance in MR and realize when hosting the harder missions your success rate (or length goals) decrease unless you have people who know what to do and have appropriate gear. You don't like wasting your time/keys so guess what? you rely on MR to make life easy. The End.

TL;DR: Give us something better than MR to judge a player's competence or stop complaining.

 

Notes:

1) I personally have never used MR when recruiting people. It doesn't mean that I am against it.

2) Snydrex is a special snowflake Limbo who've been riftwalking way too much for his own good. Nothing we can do about that.

Edited January 18, 2015 by MaverickZero

[fractal_magnets]

This thread keeps going on for absolutely no reason. 

[Venus-Venera]

 

This thread keeps going on for absolutely no reason. 

 

then stop reading it!

there are very important points we could see in future updates. 

[CaptainEras]

So I'm a newer player and lots of people have mastery rank requirements for squadding with them. I just got to mastery rank 6, and it isn't a problem, but it got me thinking.

Why do people care about it? Sure if there's a MR1 in my party they might not have much but a MR4+ can probably do anything you can do. Since all MR is a measure of how much of the content you've levelled up, why do people care? I can do t4 survival to 60 min or more, I have decent builds or can find them, I have corrosive projection, etc. I just haven't leveled everything because I'd rather grind for what I like first instead of leveling stuff for no reason.

Furthermore, I've played with absolutely terrible players with tons of rank, and players about my skill level with lower mr.

Thoughts?

You are me over a year ago, lol . . .

 

I posted some stuff about the useless nature of mastery ranks and that it should be BF3/BF4 type levelling up [experience based].

 

Since then I have come to see just how useful they are. Make no mistake, time will show you low rankers that the majority of high rankers are in a different class. Their experience and expertise in every part of the game is on a totally different level.

 

I'm on level 14 and trying to get level 15 and know [not imagine] that I make a good contribution to any squad.

Also, if there is any doubt about what I'm saying, if I, or any other with a similar or higher rank are in a squad where the others are all around say, rank 6, look at the difference in kills.

 

I know that a squad made up of purely high rankers has a breeze, but I like repaying by being in squads with guys of low ranks, and usually low shields and health (so you know what is coming . . .a lot of reviving), it all adds to the fun of the game.

 

I'd like to see far more of the game dependent on mastery rank because time has proved that it is a very good measure of talent and reliability . . .

 

BTW. Like MaverickZero I never pick my squad based on MR, it's always first come first served . .

 

Edit: I used to be a low ranker and the high rankers would do the business and bugger off home . . .leaving me clueless as to where I was supposed to go, this is wrong.

We really don't need this divide, it's not clever and it's not helpful, if I get into a squad of newbies it's up to me (and every other higher ranker), to give them full support, not leave them getting blown to hell and back.

One day when you are hammering it out on 45+ T4 Survival you might appreciate them as your wingman . .

Edited January 18, 2015 by CaptainEras

[fractal_magnets]

then stop reading it!

there are very important points we could see in future updates. 

 

Check your profile. there is a skill level. Meaningless... but it's there.

MR = experience.

It's human nature to go for the person with more experience.

How do you buy a product or use a service? The guys that have been around for ages or the new kids?

Changing any part of this is just limiting the game.

 

This thread is a meaningless rant, stacked on top of a class based argument.

 

Reputation system is what this game needs... Not "a better way to tell if a player is good" what does that even mean?

There are so many play styles that you will always have a clash, even at the higher level players that have been going from day one.

 

We just need a system to decipher whether a player is a d**k or not.

There are a million of those threads that need the attention that this little vent thread is hogging.

[Hypernaut1]

Low MR players are horrible at defense missions.

If they arent tripping lazers and killling half the team at teh worst possible moment, theyre trying to meet the enemies at the spawn "before they get to the pod" and dying in the middle of a horde. If they are not the one dying, they are getting themselves killed trying to revive the low MR player that just died fighting at the spawn, leaving the pod even more unprotected. Then they both waste a revive as the pod gets destroyed anyway...

i was there too, and i wasnted aware of how annoying i was until i became more familiar with the game. i never tripped those lazers though, i still dont understand the players that do this.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Hypernaut1

[Venus-Venera]

but reputation system could be abused with wrong rating.

for example somebody could say give me 5-10 platium or u will get very bad rating from me. or big clan can insult player/s with very low ratings.

i am sure current rating with mastery rank is very good system and i would like to see mastery ranks near every whisper in future.

there are very important points why mastery is very good rating already in this topic.

[Goldy]

Ranking and actual player skill will never be connected in any reliable way, as there are too many variables like understanding of engine behaviour, movement variants and attack speed of your melee weapons, rl distraction, having a bad day, etc..

 

Offtopic: I feel like games lost their purpose as entertaining media since invention of online-multiplayer, since competing with random strangers even in a co-op game apparently becomes a big thing. Kudos for the solo mode, DE.

[fractal_magnets]

but reputation system could be abused with wrong rating.

for example somebody could say give me 5-10 platium or u will get very bad rating from me. or big clan can insult player/s with very low ratings.

i am sure current rating with mastery rank is very good system and i would like to see mastery ranks near every whisper in future.

there are very important points why mastery is very good rating already in this topic.

 

You could just screencap and report that player.

Also, a poor rating from a poorly rated player would be null and void.

[Tigersight]

So why is MR used to gauge a player instead of conclave? I mean, you can spam 4 with 3 other people and manage to get a high MR and have friends give you most of the gear or take a new player taxied around n such.

Conclave means you HAVE put in the time, levelled the mods, levelled the frame, and overall indicates how much beefed up equipment your bringing to the fight.

So yeah, am I missing something?

This is why:

 

Yeah it's been changed now, but it proves my point. Conclave rating != usefulness.

[CaptainEras]

Check your profile. there is a skill level. Meaningless... but it's there.

MR = experience.

It's human nature to go for the person with more experience.

How do you buy a product or use a service? The guys that have been around for ages or the new kids?

Changing any part of this is just limiting the game.

 

This thread is a meaningless rant, stacked on top of a class based argument.

 

Reputation system is what this game needs... Not "a better way to tell if a player is good" what does that even mean?

There are so many play styles that you will always have a clash, even at the higher level players that have been going from day one.

 

We just need a system to decipher whether a player is a d**k or not.

There are a million of those threads that need the attention that this little vent thread is hogging.

Reputation System ????

 

The algorithm would be so complicated the server would crash.

 

A small example: I can be going for a high kill count so rig out accordingly. I can be levelling up so it's a very dodgey mission. I can be farming so have modded accordingly, etc., etc., in other words there are dozens of situations I could be rigging out for so how the hell could anyone program fairness for me, fairness for everyone else, and fairness on every interaction with everyone else . . .to complete a fair reputation reading.

 

People might not see it instantly - I didn't - but give it time and most, not all, will eventually see that the MR system is actually smarter than it looks, it gives a fair reading for everyone by going as far as it can go to be FAIR to ALL . . .

 

One thing I do know, make the effort to get to level 10 and see if your opinion has changed from when you were half of that . . . then get up to level 14-15 and see how your opinion has changed again.

 

I'm not teaching anyone how to suck eggs but this game is convoluted and complicated - a fair amount of time in Wikia being essential - with much that could have gone wrong, but coming up to the 2 year mark virtually unscathed compared to the many game debacles we all have seen is a bloody good testament to all involved in the development and management of this game . . . which includes the decision on MR being part of it all, and left just as it is other than making it more relevant when acquiring certain items, that would encourage people to make more effort.

[(PSN)sycamotree]

When I made the thread, I didn't mean, "Why can't I do T4 Defense with my Excal and lvl 15 MK-1 Paris?" I've played with those players. They're called leeches. They know they won't help but they want the rewards.

I mean the people who are like MR3 - 8 who are competent, but are for no reason at all picked on for being a "noob". Don't get me wrong, I have met plenty of nice veterans. One so graciously gave me his Nova P build, because before I looked it up, I didn't realize M Prime scaled off duration. But, there are lots of people who think that because they've played more, and have more experienced blah blah, that they deserve to treat people like less than.

I know high mastery rank and skill are positively correlated, I'm not stupid. I just want to know why people act as if they are the best at the game just because they grinded.

And yes, I've met some insufferable MR6-8, who think they're special cuz Soma/Boltor Prime, Rhino Prime. All I'm saying is, if you see a NEW player (not just low-mid MR) outside of a T4, don't criticize them, help em. Don't think you're too good to help. If it is a T4, kick em. But don't be rude, tell them why if possible.

You guys maybe forgot over your 800 or so hours, but getting into the game is hard AF. You don't understand mods or farming. You just came to shoot stuff, and when stuff gets too hard on the second planet and you have unmodded lvl 30 stuff, you don't even know how to upgrade your gear. On top of that, NO ONE will run missions with you. I know people who quit simply because they don't know how to get off Venus. I STILL haven't finished the star chart. Then you see people with gold god mode weapons and try to get em, only to still suck cuz you don't know how mods work.

Only reason I don't suck (gear wise) to this day is the wiki and a couple clan mates. I didn't even get elemental mods til MR3. Nothing to speak of Intensify, Flow, Streamline, and I didn't have a corrupted mod til MR5.

Instead of being self righteous, just help a player out. Take a player on assassinations to unlock planets. Teach em how to mod, where to farm resources. Give em one of your umpteen million Paris Prime's you got farming Soma. Give em Serration.

And when you see me and my Valkyr or Oberon and Soma Prime, don't think I'm some arrogant mid MR know it all, cuz I'll probably be saving your butt at the end of the mission when Bombards missile you in the face. Once you figure out how to get stuff is easy enough to do so. I'm only MR7 but I'll carry some MR2's to 20-30 waves of T4 D if I have to.

Edited January 18, 2015 by (PS4)sycamotree

[Kalenath]

Helping new players can be a good thing.

 

Teaching them to leech and beg for taxis so they can be carried through stuff? Not so much.

 

MR is not about skill. It shows NOTHING about skill.

 

It shows EXPERIENCE TIME in game and GEAR. Nothing more.

 

(Edited for clarity)

Edited January 19, 2015 by Kalenath

[RlGHTEOUSNESS]

It's not perfect, but any player above MR 10 has a maxed serration, the important corrupted mods, corrosive projection, some restores, and a knowledge of how all the frames work.  A MR 4 player may have any or none of those.

 

And besides, it's the only proxy we have.  You want a good player in your squad, there's only one way to gauge it.

[(PSN)sycamotree]

Leeching is one thing.

Taxis I look at differently. You know how many nodes there are on the game? I'm not one of those players who play solo all the time, and while I could hold my own in any super eleet haxor run of T whatever, I'm not gonna act like I can solo a Draco or anything. Not to mention, this game isn't designed for solo, even if it allows it. I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just saying that I don't have every node unlocked myself, and I'll carry you through the mission if I have to.

Never mind the fact that DE puts all the good mod and aura and Vauban alerts on 20+ planets, AKA planets only people who are likely to already have those mods are able to play.

[(XBOX)MAXsandwich]

It's not perfect, but any player above MR 10 has a maxed serration, the important corrupted mods, corrosive projection, some restores, and a knowledge of how all the frames work.  A MR 4 player may have any or none of those.

 

And besides, it's the only proxy we have.  You want a good player in your squad, there's only one way to gauge it.

Nope... I've got a clanmate who just cant pick a direction... he just waffels from frame to frame, from weapon to weapon and he's mr 10... I got frustrated at his constant dieing in missions one day and asked what rank his defensive cards were and he repliied that they were 4...

A couple of days before that he begged his first intensify off another clanmate...

A decent MR can be a vauge barometer of sorts for player skill,equipment and knowledge.. but infact has no direct correlation. 

The only direct correlation to MR is the purchase of frame and wapon slots via platinum.

Why is this thread still going? I thought we already setteled this.

 

[aoguro]

my codex is level 18, my rank 12, i really dont care about ...

 

i have seen level 18 running around like a crying kid, totally immature and useless for a good teamplay which is the main goal for me in warframe, and there are too many like that in warframe ... but who cares really ... there are also lots of great nice people .-)

Edited January 18, 2015 by some_tenno

[Spikey844]

It's not perfect, but any player above MR 10 has a maxed serration, the important corrupted mods, corrosive projection, some restores, and a knowledge of how all the frames work.  A MR 4 player may have any or none of those.

 

And besides, it's the only proxy we have.  You want a good player in your squad, there's only one way to gauge it.

I'm MR 13. I don't have max serration, max hornet strike, most important corrupted mods (only fleeting expertise), or corrosive projection. Does that make me a noob then?

[MaverickZero]

I'm MR 13. I don't have max serration, max hornet strike, most important corrupted mods (only fleeting expertise), or corrosive projection. Does that make me a noob then?

It makes you an outlier. Someone very different from the average player.

 

You will always remember extreme cases or irregular cases. It's the human nature. Nothing we can do about it but it doesn't dictate anything.

Edited January 18, 2015 by MaverickZero

[unknow99]

I see very thoughtful comments here but everyone forgot the simpliest :

 

"Why do people think high mastery rank=good?"

 

Mastery. That's all.The name. :p

 

And it just means that you used & leveled more things.

 

The end.

[Kaotyke]

MR is not about skill. It shows NOTHING about skill.

 

It shows EXPERIENCE in game and GEAR. Nothing more.

^this... to a point.

 

met a MR14 in a T4S, we had a MR18 (me), 2 MR 7 and 1 MR14. By that point I would think that they would know the ins-and-outs of the game, ofc I had to explain to a MR7, that my Mind Controled Enemies would not be killed by them. And then the MR14 tells me that my Heavy Gunner killed him.... when I looked, him and my Gunner were surrounded by Nullifiers, and he decided to abort, and guess what? It was my key, and he was the host, game crash.

 

MR shows more how much GEAR you used in the game than EXPERIENCE. Experience is earned more with time playing, MR just gives me a vague clue how good a player is.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Kao-Snake

[iuki.]

MR just gives you a vague clue how good much time they have played.

 

fixt

[CaptainEras]

Hahahaha . . . I don't mean to be rude but just how much more garbage can be squeezed into this space, lol . . .

 

There is one very strong underlying message in this thread, and it ain't about MR, it's about people who can't be bothered studying what this game is all about . . .  bit like a crowd of guys in a bar drinking their beer and spouting the biggest load of uninformed drivel imagineable.

You can dream it up and believe it all you want, but that still won't make it the truth.

 

One thing in this thread which is very true are the references to the kind of crazy behaviour seen by many of us from people who obviously don't even know what wikia is.

I know why this is, the game is far too complicated, it doesn't have instant access, you have to learn and acquire skill and experience . . . hahahaha, "skill", I think a few regard MR and skill as alien to one another, when it gets that bad give up . . .intelligence can't get any lower.

[(XBOX)MAXsandwich]

Hahahaha . . . I don't mean to be rude but just how much more garbage can be squeezed into this space, lol . . .

 

There is one very strong underlying message in this thread, and it ain't about MR, it's about people who can't be bothered studying what this game is all about . . .  bit like a crowd of guys in a bar drinking their beer and spouting the biggest load of uninformed drivel imagineable.

You can dream it up and believe it all you want, but that still won't make it the truth.

 

One thing in this thread which is very true are the references to the kind of crazy behaviour seen by many of us from people who obviously don't even know what wikia is.

I know why this is, the game is far too complicated, it doesn't have instant access, you have to learn and acquire skill and experience . . . hahahaha, "skill", I think a few regard MR and skill as alien to one another, when it gets that bad give up . . .intelligence can't get any lower.

It comes of a little weird typing Hahahahaha like that... just sayin.

A simpe lol would suffice.

 

[fractal_magnets]

Instead of being self righteous, just help a player out. Take a player on assassinations to unlock planets. Teach em how to mod, where to farm resources. Give em one of your umpteen million Paris Prime's you got farming Soma. Give em Serration.

 

Assuming that we all haven't done this countless times, over our millions of hours combined.

 

That's why we have threads begging DE to better inform new players.

That's why we say "check the wiki" in region chat.

 

The amount of time we've spent teaching new players how to play is mind blowing.

It's not our job. Don't go guilt tripping the guys that helped build the player base to just help one more time.

We just need to look at our friends list to see how many people that we have helped and how many are still playing.

Maybe we are having a hard time remembering why we play this stupid game and don't feel like babysitting that day.

Leave the old guard alone.

 

We'll help them when we feel like it.