Another Thread About The Newly Added Units.

[TwoCrabs]

I guess well just have to keep on making these threads about these units until DE 

realizes that some of the concepts behind them are completely flawed.

 

almost all newly added units(infested and void) completely RUIN the FUN of the game for me :( bombards and nullifiers are easily able to one shot you and the new infested turned my favourite faction to go up against into my now least favourite, becaus of all the CC and screen shaking and overall chaos.


some of the new units arent well designed or thought through:

nullifiers: imo theyre well designed but their dmg output is STUPID! they deal over 1000 dmg on level 40 meaning they one shot most squichy frames
(loki is the best example since hes only able to survive due to his invisibility, yet nullifieres make the whole frame """"""useless"""""")(yes i know you can shoot the bubble, but you know what I mean :s)

bombards: same dmg output as nullifieres just even more long ranged and UNAVOIDABLE


infested:
broodmother: well designed I like it.
boiler: well designed I like them(both of these units feel as if they belong in the infested armee imo)

moas.:....where do I beginn?they constantly turn your screen dark and slow you down(the screen effect is annoying, np with the slow)
BUT why do they deal this absurd amount of dmg?? why do they spawn in a ratio of 2moas per 3runners?why do they still have the stupid moa shockwave???? we already have to watch out for ancient hooks,energy drains. slows, broodlings, crawlers, and boiler explosion while having the weird screen effect!(and most of these things seem alsmost unavoidable :( )
infested are just one big CLUSTEREFF of awefullness nowdays please de this isnt fun, this isnt even challenging it is just plain annyoing and frustrating.

how would I fix it?

-remove the lanka from the nullifiers, give them a tetra and lower accuracy they really dont need this damage output, theyre a support unit and decrease theyre spawnrates please, on high tier missions all Im able to see are those gigantic bubbles all over the map, these should be about as common as a heavy gunner or bombard.

-bombards should not have THIS much damage and 100% accuracy a slight nerf to both is needed( make them just like the normal bombards those are well designed, balanced and really fun to fight agaist imo)
- mutalist moas shouldnt deal any damage at all if you ask me they already slow the player and cause utter disorientation and chaos on the battlefield.

-decrease the spawnrate of nullifiers and moas theyre WAYYYYYYY too common.(just as a reminder :PP)
-remove or decrease the weird spore screen effect of the moas. it doesnt add to gameplay its just annoying.

*added*

 

-ancient healer and moa combo make the surrounding infested waaaaayyy to tanky, it doesnt fit in with their concept of being a faction thats supposed to swarm you in high numbers but theyre easily killed, right now this faction is the jack of all trades since theyre fast, tanky, and have a bunch of CC and damage output. again....not fun DE

 

 

 

well those are my two cents. agree with me or not lately if been exclusivly playing against the grineer just becasue theyre the least annyoing faction right now :( they used to be the most difficult and hardcore one but man these guis are just a bunch of nerds in comparison to the new infested, corpus and void.
Ive been here since the open beta release and I will certainly stay but cmon DE this is not what we asked for when we asked for more challenge. not......this :(

 

sorry for my not-so-perfect english, its not my main language

 

 

<3

Edited January 15, 2015 by PootisMaine

[counterflux]

Agree to many of this.

MOA's sometimes one shot you with their goo? I think the goal is to make players slower/move to another location not for damage.

the visual effect of those fireflies is annoying. (changed brightness for infested and sets it back for others)

 

bombards are some added difficulty... I'm ok with that.

 

nullifiers are the real pain.

You even forgot snipers versus nullifier. Really the nullifier already blocks ability spam playstyle but blocking the snipers too is too much.

I hope this get fixed soon (DE said they were looking at the shield mechanics)

[RexRgisIocus]

My only problem with Bombards is the absurd way the rockets can spin 360 degrees to keep following you and the fact that they rapid fire said rockets. I don't mind their damage output as logn as its possible to actually dodge the rockets like with the Grineer variant. 

 

While I sort of agree with the damage output of Nullers being a bit much it is possible to dodge their shots unlike Ballistas who have 100% accuracy and deal almost as much damage and fire faster.

 

Mutalist Moas are really ok. I do think the Swarm Moa isn't needed though since it literally does nothing aside from the stomp. I don't find the bees do anything since I can see anyways and the amount of damage they do is almost insignificant. The Tar Moas though I find round up the Infested faction pretty well since it was way too easy to cheese our way through with a Vauban spamming Vortex while staying on high ground firing 'nades and missiles.

[Edgedemon]

Mutalist Moas are really ok. I do think the Swarm Moa isn't needed though since it literally does nothing aside from the stomp. I don't find the bees do anything since I can see anyways and the amount of damage they do is almost insignificant. The Tar Moas though I find round up the Infested faction pretty well since it was way too easy to cheese our way through with a Vauban spamming Vortex while staying on high ground firing 'nades and missiles.

that swarm gives armor to infested and stacks over and over again even after the MOA is dead

[yles9056]

I have the same feeling about nullifier. Their ability is fine, but the lanka damage is way too high.

 

And corrupted bombard's 360 non-stop homing missiles are are just ridiculous. Large AOE range, turns 360 degree, high damage, rapid firing rate. Once you are knocked down by the blast, you are bound to die.

[TwoCrabs]

I have the same feeling about nullifier. Their ability is fine, but the lanka damage is way too high.

 

And corrupted bombard's 360 non-stop homing missiles are are just ridiculous. Large AOE range, turns 360 degree, high damage, rapid firing rate. Once you are knocked down by the blast, you are bound to die.

yea exactely I forgot to add this to my post, I feel utterly helpless when I fight agaist them.

[PhoenixElite]

I see that you left out one exceptionally annoying enemy combo. Ancient healers and swarm moas are THE worst imo. Ancient healers give everything about 90% damage reduction, AND swarm moas give everything stacking armor. Damage reduction was bad enough, since it couldn't be avoided at all, but now these already tanky enemies are for more tanky. Don't forget about the swarm mechanics them-selves though, one enemy with the swarm is all you need to have to deal with an entire army of armored enemies, as well as the swarm sticking onto players, rolling doesn't help what-so-ever when everything else has the swarm and most if not all of them charge at you constantly.

[Drazhar14]

I agree OP. I think each unit should have a specific role, not be able to do everything.

 

For example, nullifiers shouldn't be DPS and Defensive Shield and Disable warframe powers. Nothing should have both crazy DPS and Defense at the same time while disabling the only way to stand up against it (warframe powers). When a unit has no way to counter it like this, the game is no longer challenging or fun. Just frustrating. While channeling their shield, they should not be allowed to fire their gun. You could say using the shield takes too much of their power. Their weapon should be a backup for if their shield gets destroyed. Either that, or significantly lower their damage / give them a new weapon. 

 

Infested MOAs have too many abilities. Give them the sludge bomb and keep ground stomp a corpus ability (no other infested units carry over original unit abilities). Like OP said other infested units take care of the CC. Plus the sludge bomb already slows players down. Infested MOAs have that flip move they do. There could by a (small) knockdown if they hit you after doing that. 

[RexRgisIocus]

that swarm gives armor to infested and stacks over and over again even after the MOA is dead

 

The armor buff doesn't seem to actually matter though. I mean even my Miter (which is supposedly bad) reks Infested in ODD up to 30 waves with ease (I use mine uncharged with the ammo mutator). Kohm destroys Infested even harder so I doubt the amount of armor given by the swarms make any noticeable difference, at least up to the 35 waves I've gone.

 

1.Weapons with good status chance to proc Rad for getting rid of auras, Perrin Sequence's radial effect or Oberon/Nyx/Loki (Irradiating Disarm).

 

2.Health builds

 

3.Rolling

 

4.Not Standing still

 

5.Picking priority targets/not shooting randomly. I mean shoot Ancients > Eximi > Moas > Boilers > anything else.

 

6.Single target weaponry works better than aoe (doesn't matter much). Less healing for Healers this way.

 

7.Health restores (not that important)

 

Enjoy yourself having not such a hard time with the Infested.

[Sziklamester]

I find these new units sometimes fun and challenging but sometimes the rng tricky with you and often spawn more than you can handle normal. Now this is not a simple slaughtering like before now you need to be more tactical and more lot more because they spawn those goos and bees into your face. Against them the most effective the mag and volt and maybe ember. 

 

About bombards I can just say that homing missile concept without chance to avoid is just bad as was in the first times. Luckily they not implemented still there the napalm.

[RexRgisIocus]

 While channeling their shield, they should not be allowed to fire their gun. You could say using the shield takes too much of their power. Their weapon should be a backup for if their shield gets destroyed. Either that, or significantly lower their damage / give them a new weapon. 

 

I like this idea. Give them the Detron. They will only fire if you get inside the bubble or if the bubble is gone.

 

[TwoCrabs]

 

 

I see that you left out one exceptionally annoying enemy combo. Ancient healers and swarm moas are THE worst imo. Ancient healers give everything about 90% damage reduction, AND swarm moas give everything stacking armor. Damage reduction was bad enough, since it couldn't be avoided at all, but now these already tanky enemies are for more tanky. Don't forget about the swarm mechanics them-selves though, one enemy with the swarm is all you need to have to deal with an entire army of armored enemies, as well as the swarm sticking onto players, rolling doesn't help what-so-ever when everything else has the swarm and most if not all of them charge at you constantly.

totaly agree, the infested are supposed to SWARM you with cannon fodder with relatively high dps, make them tanky as hell and the whole concept is ruined.

Edited January 15, 2015 by PootisMaine

[Tsoe]

Keep training Tenno you ll get stronger

[TwoCrabs]

Keep training Tenno you ll get stronger

pls

[Austerity]

The bees, the endless bees....

 

:(

[CY13ERPUNK]

i still think the nullifiers are a flawed concept and execution

 

lore-wise their bubble makes no sense, if the corpus had this power/tech (and its not a prototype one-of-a-kind-item on a boss like it prolly should be) then why doesnt every corpus unit have it? why aren't all of their ships covered with it? it's too powerful in-lore-canon and makes no sense

 

ingame-wise it's also silly becuz it completely overpowers another eximus unit, the artic eximi with the mobile frost globe, not to mention that the eximi version of the nully is ALSO a globe/shield, dbl bubble for teh lulz from DE 

 

IMHO the nully bubble should either : A - block ONLY powers and not weapons (additionally not turn off timed/toggled frame abilities) or B - block weapons as well as abilities but have a set HP amount that only scales with HP and NOT armor of any kind, additionally punchthrough weapons should be able to shoot inside as well as get rid of the stupid required # of hits, if you do enough dmg, the bubble should pop in one shot

 

if either A or B was done, IMHO the nullifier would not only be a completely reasonable addition/challenge to the game, it would not seem as broken/borked and out of place

 

lastly i think giving the nully's the lanka was a bad call, they really should have a short/mid range assault weapon like the glaxion or the amprex or spectra or cestra(s), maybe even the serro/lecta ; any of those weapons would be more fitting as well as give more flavor to a new unit (since atm no corpus unit uses any of those weapons)

[vaugahn]

lore-wise their bubble makes no sense, if the corpus had this power/tech (and its not a prototype one-of-a-kind-item on a boss like it prolly should be) then why doesnt every corpus unit have it? why aren't all of their ships covered with it? it's too powerful in-lore-canon and makes no sense

 

It's been explained many times by many different people why this is not an issue.

 

Lore isn't the problem, gameplay is. They're doing too many things for one unit, the best solution would be to take away their OHKO Lankas. 

[Repligon]

Bobards rockets are really annoying because of how mobile they are. It's impossible to dodge them - they just almost instantly turn 180 degree and hit you before rolling animation ends. I wish we could at least shot them down in the air.

 

I think Infested are too overloaded with annoying mechanics. Slowing goo, bees, shockwaves, hooks etc are kind of fine by their own but usually we get everything at once. Usually, unless you have some powerful nukeing or radiating frame in a squad, field quickly gets filled with goo (They shooting it literally every few seconds!), shockwaves and your screen gets covered by the bees. How do we supposed to like fighting something like this:

I'm tired of having to use only minimap for navigation.

Fighting infested is more of a punishment than enjoyment right now.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Repligon

[CY13ERPUNK]

It's been explained many times by many different people why this is not an issue.

 

Lore isn't the problem, gameplay is. They're doing too many things for one unit, the best solution would be to take away their OHKO Lankas. 

 

if you read the rest of my post, i addressed the gameplay issue as well...

 

also plz direct me to where someone has explained the logical sense/lore/canon issue, id like to see the gymnastics/deus ex machina

Edited January 17, 2015 by CY13ERPUNK

[SandwitchPrime]

or just remove the nullifier bastards, it's a bandaid fix for press 4 to win and obviously not working.

don't get why DE would EVER give missiles that has homing abilities.

[-Narauko-]

I can deal with the reduced visibility, it can be fun at times shooting in all directions trying to fight your way through the fog of flesh.

 

The CC on the other hand is completly out of hand when the above happens. When a lot of frames have no counters to stop CC.

 

When you get hooked...slowed...gas clouds spewing...bees...stagger locked and all the while more enemies raining down on you. Infested needed a buff they used to be a joke and DE have been creative imo with what they introduced but there needs to be some sort of control over it.

 

Why not have each infested mission with a designated hive trait dictating which types will spawn. Limiting the CC arsenal.