Here's How We Remove Serration And (Attempt To) Balance The Game. Damage 2.5 (Designated Megathread)

[NoeleVeerod]

I answered with "no opinion on this topic" at the Damage mods question. That's because I have a question myself to ask:

 

let's suppose Serration et similia get taken away. What system will replace the Damage mods against enemy scaling? Because the only way enemies get harder is through exponential stats increment. There virtually is a point where even powerful weapons struggle, and removing Damage mods seriously hinders their efficiency, and endangers any high-level missions whose survival probability were still reasonable.

 

I'm not a data digger, or an expert of sort, so please enlighten me on this topic.

 

 

I don't want to clutter the forums with more hot topics, but I'm afraid a response to this dilemma might get lost in the ensuing argument between "remove all the Serration!" and "disregard haters, acquire all the power" users.

[rechot]

DE do not need to remove damage mods! DE has nerfed and messed with the damage system way too much within the last year. Gamers invested time and plat for some of these mods! The problem, is pesky noobs who have not grind enough to max out these mods are crying to much because they are underpowered themselves.  Leave the damage mods alone, leave the damage system alone. Quit messing with things to appease the noobs. Don't change things, just to change things.

SOMEONE FINALLY GETS IT. NOOBS RUINING GOOD GAMES

[Alphafox]

SOMEONE FINALLY GETS IT. NOOBS RUINING GOOD GAMES

2 serration and 2 hornet strikes maxed, yeah i'm probably a noob.

[Alphafox]

There is many way add a viable system to increase weapon damage, so many that it hurt my brain that our community can't even see them.

-Make the weapon damage increase each time you level up.

-Make mastery rank get a modifier that increase your damage(by a small percentage)

-Add more mods like Heavy calliber that reduce your accuracy but increase your damage

-Make conditional damage mods(Headshot damage +200% for example)

 

 and there is so many more.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Alphafox

[Cat_Jam]

Got'cha covered. 

Thanks, but even so...

 

They plan on removing the mod because it serves a basic purpose?... It supplies extra damage, just as Point Strike adds additional critical chance and Split Chamber adds multishot chance. The argument of "it's a necessity" is ridiculous... People who genuinely think it's necessary on every weapon have never used anything other than Boltor Prime or a weapon that isn't damage focused...

[ClockworkSpectre]

All the people who want Serration to stay in the game have no idea of the harm they are dealing. to it.

I think a lot of people were not around when they changed the mod system when the game went to open beta.  They don't understand what a mess it was at first and how long it took for DE to fix it.  A change as drastic and the people that want the base damage mods removed will likely be another mess that will take months to resolve, and that will do far more damage to the game than anything else.  Having the base damage mods in the game is not harming the game in the least, that is just nonsense. 

[swihart91]

Nice copy cat thread but no serration should be removed but it isnt something that needs done right now, the people who want to better the game know this and know other things need improvement first. The people who want a mod slot and legendary cores want this to happen asap. They also dont want to lose thier major damage burst so they want serration as a passive lvl gain but this ruins the gameplay for newer players who will think this gamenis too easy once they get a lvl 20+ weapon then at the same time they don't want any enemies buffed to compensate for this. Yes some players want a better game but a lot want powercreep which is a little more of where this is going if not handled rigjt.

[Kerubael]

I think a lot of people were not around when they changed the mod system when the game went to open beta.  They don't understand what a mess it was at first and how long it took for DE to fix it.  A change as drastic and the people that want the base damage mods removed will likely be another mess that will take months to resolve, and that will do far more damage to the game than anything else.  Having the base damage mods in the game is not harming the game in the least, that is just nonsense. 

Second that.

 

We invested time to level the mod its an old mod and why do ppl want it to be gone now? It is not doing harm in any way. Give me a good reason please other than ppl complaining they don't have a maxed one or want the slot free for other stuff?

[HyokaChan]

 

I'm not a data digger, or an expert of sort, so please enlighten me on this topic.

 

It all started with devstream44, so I suggest you watch it if you haven't already.

 

All that was said is that it's being considered, but since there aren't any solid ideas from them what to replace them with... We won't see it gone so soon, if at all. Still, it's a subject for debate since we all know how important straight damage mods are and balance will take a big shift if it's gone.

Edited January 19, 2015 by HyokaChan

[Cat_Jam]

Second that.

 

We invested time to level the mod its an old mod and why do ppl want it to be gone now? It is not doing harm in any way. Give me a good reason please other than ppl complaining they don't have a maxed one or want the slot free for other stuff?

Third this.

 

Apparently their argument is "it's bork and completely necessary on every build"... Unoriginal nubs.

[Drazhar14]

How to replace the damage gap? Make it so weapons gain 5% damage every level, for +150% damage at rank 30. Plus you get a new free mod slot from no longer having serration, so you could throw in another elemental mod if you really wanted.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Jeebus... Another week another thing for the "community" (read very vocal minority) to try to steer DE into changing. Lol.

I think weapons should get additional "utility" slots. Damage mods and mods we need to rank up should stay as they are a "rite of passage" for us Tenno.

Not everything is "fixed" by eliminating or nerfing it.

Sigh...

[PhoenixElite]

Yes, this noob with 1000+ hours and hundreds of dollars put into supporting this game wants Serration to be removed because I feel 'underpowered'. I expect this thread to be locked for attempting to provide an argument by simply saying "Everyone that wants Serration gone is a noob" while providing no evidence to support your claim what-so-ever.

[Alphafox]

Second that.

 

We invested time to level the mod its an old mod and why do ppl want it to be gone now? It is not doing harm in any way. Give me a good reason please other than ppl complaining they don't have a maxed one or want the slot free for other stuff?

Do you seriously believe that DE would remove something that crucial, the only thing(if you don't count multishot)that directly increase your weapon damage, the only thing that can make you handle content after mercury, the only way to do anything in the game without adding anything to remplace it? Really your argument is not even one.

 

Here many reason:

There is no freaking way that you can do anything without Serration, Hornet Strike, Point blank or any of those type of mods, NOTHING.

Show me a valid build without any of those mods.

What value does Serration really have? None, it's not even a valid kind of progression.

Do you really think that putting the way that players progress behind freaking RNG is a good way to design things?

 

There is so many reason, you guys are just blinded by your egoism. 

Edited January 19, 2015 by Alphafox

[MrNonApplicable]

If serration is removed, they will adjust enemy scaling. Don't worry, DE aren't idiots.

[markus230]

I think a lot of people were not around when they changed the mod system when the game went to open beta.  They don't understand what a mess it was at first and how long it took for DE to fix it.  A change as drastic and the people that want the base damage mods removed will likely be another mess that will take months to resolve, and that will do far more damage to the game than anything else.  Having the base damage mods in the game is not harming the game in the least, that is just nonsense. 

Oh... I forgot about perk trees... yea it was horrible

[Imaru]

Thanks, but even so...

 

They plan on removing the mod because it serves a basic purpose?... It supplies extra damage, just as Point Strike adds additional critical chance and Split Chamber adds multishot chance. The argument of "it's a necessity" is ridiculous...

The fact is though that there isn't a single weapon that is not improved by damage mods. Every shotgun, pistol, melee, and rifle is boosted by a damage mod, regardless of if has high status, crit, or any other stat. Damage mods are the epitome of a false choice mod in this game, right up there with power efficiency mods for warframes. 

 

Have you ever tried to use a weapon without a maxed damage mod in a high level mission, and then compared it to that same weapon with the damage mod? The difference is night and day. In most cases, you almost double your damage output, and therefore your effectiveness. 

 

People who genuinely think it's necessary on every weapon have never used anything other than Boltor Prime or a weapon that isn't damage focused...

Um, no. I never use the Boltor Prime. I can't stand it. I've used the Dread, a Crit weapon, and it requires serration. I've used the Bo Prime, a status weapon. Still needed Pressure point. You simply don't get the effectiveness you need at high level play without a damage mod. 

[Cat_Jam]

Do you seriously believe that DE would remove something that crucial, the only thing that directly increase your weapon damage, the only thing that can make you handle content after mercury, the only way to do anything in the game without adding anything to remplace it.

 

Here many reason:

There is no freaking way that you can do anything without Serration, Hornet Strike, Point blank or any of those type of mods, NOTHING.

Show me a valid build without any of those mods.

What value does Serration really have? None, it's not even a valid kind of progression.

Do you really think that putting the way that players progress behind freaking RNG is a good way to design things?

 

There is so many reason, you guys are just blinded by your egoism. 

And you're blinded by your hipsterism...

 

You do realise serration has to be leveled up to get more powerful? Hence, when the players start progressively getting to higher levels their mods will also increase as they find more fusion cores.

 

There's no RNG about it... Apart from the drop rates of cores (which aren't low anymore) this has nothing to do with RNG...

[Kerubael]

Do you seriously believe that DE would remove something that crucial, the only thing(if you don't count multishot)that directly increase your weapon damage, the only thing that can make you handle content after mercury, the only way to do anything in the game without adding anything to remplace it? Really your argument is not even one.

 

Here many reason:

There is no freaking way that you can do anything without Serration, Hornet Strike, Point blank or any of those type of mods, NOTHING.

Show me a valid build without any of those mods.

What value does Serration really have? None, it's not even a valid kind of progression.

Do you really think that putting the way that players progress behind freaking RNG is a good way to design things?

 

There is so many reason, you guys are just blinded by your egoism. 

I am preaty sleepy atm so i don't get me wrong but i am on the side not removing damage mods and by you post you seam to thing i am on site that wants it removed^^

[soundtea]

DE do not need to remove damage mods! DE has nerfed and messed with the damage system way too much within the last year. Gamers invested time and plat for some of these mods! The problem, is pesky noobs who have not grind enough to max out these mods are crying to much because they are underpowered themselves.  Leave the damage mods alone, leave the damage system alone. Quit messing with things to appease the noobs. Don't change things, just to change things.

You do realize that even veterans would like Serration gone and replaced with damage via weapon rank? Serration/Hornet Strike/Pressure Point is flat out required for any weapon in the game now. It just takes up a mod slot that could be used for something else.

 

Also it will be obvious that if they removed them, we'd be compensated well.

[(PSN)TheYetiMan22]

I really don't understand the "by removing serration you'll get more build diversity" argument? Will it? Surely people will just add another mod for more damage? Isn't a lot of the community focused on DPS and damage, so surely if serration is removed and is innate, they'll just add more mods for DPS negating the build diversity argument?

 

Isn't that the aim of the game to get more powerful weapons to stay longer in the void or kill big heavies easier (generalised yes but we're playing to kill things right)?

[DameDameNingen]

3- Removing +Damage mods will likely not be the end of 'progression'. Rather, it might be the beginning of meaningful progression. Enemies will go from 'more health and damage' to 'smarter, have more abilities and spawning in more devilish patterns'. Veteran players will have better weapons modded with far more utility, specialization and functionality to deal with enemies better whilst not becoming something that can instantly make mid-level content boring and irrelevant. Allowing players to move more easily between high and mid-level content without needing to constantly make load-out adjustments. 

 

 

This would be amazing, and would make challenge at higher levels far more meaningful than just having bigger numbers all round. Bombards could get their stomp at level 15, homing rockets at level 30, and a jetpack or something at level 45. Corrupted bombards could teleport instead of the jetpack.

[Zrgd]

There has been nothing official from DE about what change would take place if it even goes into effect. My best guess would be making your weapon increase by 5.5% DMG per level thus being at 165% at max level like maxed serration.

Currently you level your weapon from 1 to 30 and if you don't put any mods on your weapon, a lvl 1 weapon does just as much DMG as a lvl 30 weapon

[Alphafox]

And you're blinded by your hipsterism...

 

You do realise serration has to be leveled up to get more powerful? Hence, when the players start progressively getting to higher levels their mods will also increase as they find more fusion cores.

 

There's no RNG about it... Apart from the drop rates of cores (which aren't low anymore) this has nothing to do with RNG...

So it appears by magic in your inventory?No crap it has to be leveled, tell us something we don't know please. There is many way to make players progress and that mod is not the answer.

[Cat_Jam]

Have you ever tried to use a weapon without a maxed damage mod in a high level mission, and then compared it to that same weapon with the damage mod? The difference is night and day. In most cases, you almost double your damage output, and therefore your effectiveness. 

IN MOST CASES

 

MOST

 

You vote to remove a mod completely because it benefits most of the weapons in the game... wow.