Would Veterans Be Interested In A "legacy System" Where Mentoring Newer Players/frames Would Result In Exclusive Rewards?

[Mesyra]

sure, I would help out some players if they need it. I've been going to level my weapons on mercury instead of DSD on pluto so that I can help the newer players get some resources and go to higher waves.

[(PSN)YankeeClippah]

Yes, its currently all i use my clan for

[vomder]

As a grand master, I respect and pay attention to your points, with greater weight, even. I'm looking for ways to reward everyone involved-vets,rookies, and DE's business model. If DE wants to continue to grow the game and make it enjoyable for as many players as possible, how does your stance on DE's "need" make logical sense? If you feel that way, then WHY is it your belief that they would make decisions that provide you with unnecessary, annoying, and aggravating gameplay experiences? Feel free to cut loose because I think the community is mature enough to take it the right way. Do you feel marginalized? What do YOU want to see happen in 2015?

I truly appreciate your continued input :)

 

It's not a belief, all you have to do is look at the way they have been handling things. Working backwards from the latest weapon requiring 2 other weapons for no actual reason. Mesa and her key wall, Asswing and the non guaranteed drops, Hydroid and his key wall, Kubrows and their various walls, Nekros and his key wall, Argon, Oxium. See where this is going?

 

And you still failed to address the issue of the game not providing information for players itself. Which is what should be happening, instead of relying on players to do the game's job instead.

Edited January 21, 2015 by vomder

[ChameleonDude]

Im pretty sure the newbie wont even mind why hes helping him/her as long as he's getting help. His idea will only increase helpers, Thats what newbies need,

 

That's the point - it wouldn't be help. It would be bad, if any, advice from someone who's treating it like a kill count in exterminate or defence points in mobile defence. New players don't need the advice that the majority of players would give - a slightly better tutorial system would be far more effective.

[Meganin]

 I dunno about this idea. First, how do you intend to measure the student mentor thing? You mention getting to level 30 with a frame or building 3 frames, but would those things have to be done while both players are in the same game to get enough xp to student and farm bosses enough times to get 3 frames? What would stop a high level mentor of simply steam rolling trough easy missions while the student just hide behind him? Or its just getting a mentor attached to a student while he gets xp/frames will grant the mentor the rewards?

 The main problem as i see it, is that helping new players in warframe is very subjective. Is it carrying him through a mission? But no one learns nothing from that and some people get used to it. Giving free stuff to them? Most part of warframe's point is playing to get said stuff, sure its tough on new players but thats part of the game and it would do nothing but take away from the experience, even if its a bad one. Giving advice on where and how to get certain frames/weapons, how to do certain maneuvers? Thats DE's job and if players have to tell other players how to do it, it means DE did something wrong (and please dont do the "whats the best weapon?" advice thats the reason people want to put boltor prime behind a mastery wall).

 Even if there was an effective way of helping new players, it should be simply a method of making it easier not rewarding it with anything besides a warm fuzzy feeling and eventually a new buddy, or else people will just do it half-assadly or exploit the thing just for the sake of getting the reward.

[Tepik]

as a new player, this seems like a good idea. motivating people to help in a game that seriously doesn't approve of solo play.

 

i was stuck at the first corpus planet (can't remember what it was) and a specific interception mission was simply blocking me.

 

no one plays low level missions like that, so getting people to actively help others is pretty cool.

[321agemo]

I'm all in for a mentor system, but we really need to lay some serious ground rules:

-Who can mentor?

-How does one mentor?

-Why would I mentor?

Now of course you can't really have a MR2 mentoring a MR0, since here's barely any different in ranking ( and most likely knowledge), but it can't just be exclusive to just people who are rank 17/18, as here are veteran who have stayed in lower ranks and not bothered ranking up.

Next is how. The idea of helping a tenno level up to 30 or helping to build new frames doesn't sound like a good idea, as it'll cause certain mentors to just carry his/her pupil to hard missions and power level them. It would be more beneficial for the mentor to help teach him/her techniques or strategy.

And finally, the largest problem of them all: why. While I don't speak for the vets (since I'm not one of them) you need to give them somethig that would interest them to help.

Exclusive reward is definitely a no-no, but how about "unique"? Something like a hall of fame, where it shows who you've mentored and how, and maybe a single r5 fusion cores. Those who do the mission out of greed won't feel like its worth doing, while those who want to help will at least feel they also got something nice out of it.

Edited January 21, 2015 by 321agemo

[(PSN)Silverback73]

It's not a belief, all you have to do is look at the way they have been handling things. Working backwards from the latest weapon requiring 2 other weapons for no actual reason. Mesa and her key wall, Asswing and the non guaranteed drops, Hydroid and his key wall, Kubrows and their various walls, Nekros and his key wall, Argon, Oxium. See where this is going?

And you still failed to address the issue of the game not providing information for players itself. Which is what should be happening, instead of relying on players to do the game's job instead.

So you've hit your threshold with certain "obtainables" that DE made harder to acquire than any previous comparable item because it's no fun for you, and/or the time and money isn't worth it or you don't have it to invest. Doing the work FOR beginners is not how veterans would get rewards. Loosely put, your success depends on their active involvement and not sponging. Qwerty and Console controllers for chatting can really help if you simply reach out. Also, a system like this, if possible, could be a boost to clan mechanics.

The term "asswing" is juvenile and many might see it as -snip-worthy, I'm guessing. It only detracts.

I'm a swing and miss guy. I appreciate those who fail greatly for daring to be great. Fans who curse obnoxiously from the stands can't affect a game's score.

Edited January 21, 2015 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Aspari]

I'm okay with this. I'm a merc who doesn't budge for anything that isn't profit to begin with, so this'll be nice.

[manub]

a mentoring system would be nice, some cosmetics rewarding it also

but once we get the cosmetics, most vets would probably go back to playing as they did before

 

to vets, affinity becomes useless after a while, as do creds & ressources, & let's not bring plat in this

maybe some core rewards? help a player, get some rare cores? or even help a player get through a lot of challenges, get a legendary core?

 I would love a system that would motivate us to help new players, but I don't see a lot of ways to implement it to be honest

Edited January 21, 2015 by manub

[Thelonious]

Wasn't something similar already tried at some point?

 

I remember, it was the only way to get some of the newly released mods at the time (Firestorm among others I can't recall).

There were also other rewards such as slots, and you'd get part of the plat your "pupils" would buy, that would unlock whenever a certain number of your "pupils" reached certain milestones (like 5 ppl reaching lvl 30 on a frame and stuff like that).

 

In short, here's what happened: the community made a fuss about the exclusive mods being so...exclusive, they were released into the game as drops, people would use alt-accounts anyway to get them (which is a no-no for DE).

Aaaaaaaand no one ever cared again.

 

There it is. I had to look for it on the wiki, couldn't find the page on the main site.

 

https://www.warframe.com/referral

 

So maybe we just need Referral 2.0, even though I'm pretty sure the same thing is gonna happen.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Thelonious

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Wasn't something similar already tried at some point?

 

I remember, it was the only way to get some of the newly released mods at the time (Firestorm among others I can't recall).

There were also other rewards such as slots, and you'd get part of the plat your "pupils" would buy, that would unlock whenever a certain number of your "pupils" reached certain milestones (like 5 ppl reaching lvl 30 on a frame and stuff like that).

 

In short, here's what happened: the community made a fuss about the exclusive mods being so...exclusive, they were released into the game as drops, people would use alt-accounts anyway to get them (which is a no-no for DE).

Aaaaaaaand no one ever cared again.

 

There it is. I had to look for it on the wiki, couldn't find the page on the main site.

 

https://www.warframe.com/referral

 

So maybe we just need Referral 2.0, even though I'm pretty sure the same thing is gonna happen.

Nice find! +1. The next step is to compare and actively brainstorm specific ideas on how it COULD possibly work. Getting moderators/DE to express interest that this thread is more than just full of "sound and fury, signifying nothing" would be neat ;). My hope is to be constructive. Thank you for the feedback!

[Dirty_H4rr1]

Instead of exclusives, I'd rather have mods or fusion cores as rewards for helping players.

[Liminal]

Not really. I hate people.

[Innocent_Flower]

Well, I've been helping new players for a bit now; I don't think this is the sollution. It isn't down to the prospect that I'd get free stuff. It's that: 

 

 

We shouldn't need to do this. 

 

 

DE needs to do it. better mechanics in general that are easier on new players or better tutorials. 

[Edgedemon]

 im MR18 and i just go around helping people for the fun of it

No, players should be helping each other out of kindness, not for "shiny things".

this is exactly why i vote no

 

I'd be fine with a mentoring system that DIDN'T reward people. People should just be helping other people where they can anyway.

EDIT: IF ANYTHING, I'd probably only has that RNG is a little kinder to people who help others out. So;

Raise the Stalker/Zenuka/Grustrag Three showing up from 1.5% to maybe 3-5%?

Rare Prime Parts from the Void have a higher % to drop.

Rare mods/resources have a slightly higher % to drop more

Etc. etc.

That would be all I ask, if anything.

that line may work since you are "more famous" you are a more interesting target, the others are plain OP and contradict your previous negation.

 

 

Counter-argument: no one is forcing anyone to play any particular style in this game. It's a possible horizontal style of play. That's like saying I should be angry that I have to time sink hours and then am forced to run T3-4 Void missions to get prime drops. Of course I'm not. It's a choice to invest more time, money, and effort.

Enjoy going for the carrot or not, but let others do as they wish.

your original proposal include "exclusive buff" which is directly translated as "forced" because it will start with everyone and their neighbor want that "exclusive" which is no longer exclusive, and turns into everyone needs that "no longer exclusive" so they don't become the only one excluded.

 

 

 

 

[NocturneOfSolace]

Absolutely

[Edgedemon]

Instead of exclusives, I'd rather have mods or fusion cores as rewards for helping players.

maybe... getting an extra fusion core added to mission rewards, it has to be a simple enough reward so people can actually choose to refuse to participate. 

 

AND you would need to be limited to the conclave of the one you are helping, if you use your top of the line equipment this will become a taxi fest and new players wont learn anything anyway.

[xethier]

 if you use your top of the line equipment this will become a taxi fest and new players wont learn anything anyway.

 

This is my hangup with these concepts.

 

I don't believe in scaling up the damage of a new player. But in warframe, scaling down the vet to the level of the rookie is perfectly acceptable. (and the precedent has been made in the form of tactical alerts)

 

Increasing mod drop frequency (and quality), credit amounts, higher chances of rare prime parts... These are things that would entice a vet to help a younger player without imbalance. 

[Dillon_J]

this should be a thing. ive seen some high level MRs (sometimes even founders O-O) being complete D***s to low level newer players. then less of them that DO act like this wouldnt anymore.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

this is exactly why i vote no

 

that line may work since you are "more famous" you are a more interesting target, the others are plain OP and contradict your previous negation.

 

 

your original proposal include "exclusive buff" which is directly translated as "forced" because it will start with everyone and their neighbor want that "exclusive" which is no longer exclusive, and turns into everyone needs that "no longer exclusive" so they don't become the only one excluded.

...possible (maybe) "exclusive buff". I prefer cosmetics (horizontal rewards) with an option to buy. And I might dual reward new players to incentivize them to reach out...something as simple as exclusive color palletes might work. Id set up quests where vets would guide/demonstrate/revive with restriction...I would want to make sure both sides appreciated the process and made it more fun for the new player. The "how to" transition and giving new players/frames a boost to get through those first 5 lvls or so before things get real fun.

[Bobtm]

So I'm still against this idea, but I'm pushing that aside for now for curiousity's sake.

 

There is obviously a clear benefit to be had if a game can set up a realm which gets the crotchety crafty old vets in there to teach them whippersnappers new players the ropes, and all that good stuff.  What I'm curious of is this however;  How does teaching really come into play here?  The ideas noted in the opening post (I apologize if I missed something while hurriedly reading up to this point) don't really incentivize, warrant, or even really make an example of teaching anyone anything.  The noted "goals" are all things which many vets who have no interest in helping people would just do by grabbing the first random who falls prey to "hey wanna powerlevel?" and then run with it.  No intent to actually help them at all, in any way.

 

Of course there will be players who will help those new players out... but aren't they the ones who are already going to be helpful towards new players without these rewards?  I can't imagine there are players out there who say the following line, "Gee, I sure wanna help some new players.  Too bad there's no rewards in it for me though."  instead we've got a divide, players who do wish to aid new players, and players who do not wish to aid new players.

 

I genuinely don't think this idea will change anyone's stance on this side of the issue.  Atop that, the ways in which the goals work out just scream powerlevel from a mile away.  The only way in which I can think of to setup goals like this would be to have them as in-game mission checkboxes which are unique for both the mentor and  mentee.  Having the former side with things like;  Preform X revives, preform X assists, heal mentee for X amount of Health, heal mentee for X amount of Shield, heal mentee for X amount of Energy.  With things on the latter side that put them at the forefront;  Kill X amount of enemies, kill X amount of enemies with headshots/weakpoints, play in X missions with mentor, etc.

 

Those types of goals however would likely put most veterans to sleep... it still wouldn't really make any existing vet who isn't interested in helping actually teach a newer player.  On the contrary it's very possible that some vets would get into a "crack the whip" state, trying to pressure their mentee to preform the needed tasks solely so they can get their rewards as soon as possible.

 

It all boils down to this for me;  I don't really see this idea as providing a mostly positive change, instead seeing far more potential negatives cropping up due to it.

 

To leave things off with a question.  Why do folks feel that they need to be rewarded for doing literally everything in Warframe?

[(PSN)Silverback73]

It really isn't about "need", per se. Again, this is a time-sink acquisition game with about 5% money-exclusives, and the rest being a (time+money+skill) equals progress for your He-man/Mecha toon hybrid. The key is making sure patrons enjoy the process and invest as a product of that enjoyment.

I respect and want vets to stick around (after all, they helped to make the game what it is) but also want beginners to have an enhanced experience early on and feel how the WF community is different.

Perhaps an invite system where new players make the first move and vets must put themselves into a mentorship pool that shows availability for choosing when they are online?

[geninrising]

Hang with me a moment, this is a brainstorm on how to keep Veterans involved without the dreaded term "power creep" entering the discussion.

If you could get a wide variety of exclusive cosmetics for helping a new player reach milestones in-game, would that intrigue you?

Would it have to include exclusive buffs?

It's almost like "prestige" in that shooter except it requires co-op.

Goals (that you get credit for so long as they are obtained in-game as mentor-student) like:

Rank a frame from 1 to 30

Build 3 Warframes

Build your first Prime Warframe and level to 30.

Build your first Prime Weapon and level to 30.

A set number of experience points.

It's a rough idea, but does it have merit? Do any veterans like this idea? I want you to stick around AND have fun (oh and extending the level cap and making it harder to level is ok by me...)

Not really I am always a function over form kind of guy. I dislike cosmetics as they provide no positive traits beyond looks, and I have no vanity whatsoever. In fact I only just recently after 1k hrs playing changed my colors.