Nullifiers: Why And How They Should Be Nerfed (Updated Thread)

[Prof_Blocks_007]

I'll get straight to the point.

 

Nullifiers are breaking Warframe.

 

The concept of power cancelling abilities and energy shields are perfectly balanced. You can either shoot them down or charge in with melee attacks to crush them from within.

 

What is not fine is the fact that they can instantly kill you with their Lanka. In T3 and T4 defense missions they can easily swarm the Cryopod by wave 20 and insta-kill the whole squad - even if you revive, they have you down again in about half a second.

 

High level survival missions aren't so bad, but they can still shut you down and prevent any kind of reviving.

 

The only counters to them is using very specific setups and/or weapons, which subsequently makes the game very limited as to what you can use, if you want to succeed. And their fire rate is way too fast.

 

If you try to melee them, they can turn around and kill you in about half a second. They don't even need to steady their aim. Ranged attacks just result in being sniped anyway.

 

 

 

What I suggest is that the Lanka should be swapped for a different weapon, such as the Tetra or Detron, or a melee weapon, such as the Prova.

 

OR

 

Their shield mechanics need to be changed. A rocket does the same damage as a bullet or arrow to it. The set shrinking speed allows them plenty of time to snipe you. Perhaps they should have a total shield value that follows the regular shield mechanic and doesn't have a shrinking speed cap? Although this would ruin their effectiveness as a unit.

 

Instead, the shield could have a total shield capacity of, for example, 1000 (scales with level, of course) that when damaged causes it to shrink at a rate of 2.5m/s down to a radius equal to the damage taken to the capacity.

 

To avoid confusion it would look something like this:

 

Shield capacity 1000/1000 (100%) = Radius of 5m.

Shield capacity 500/1000 (50%) = Radius of 2.5m.

Shield capacity 250/1000 (25%) = Radius of 1.25m.

Shield capacity 0/1000 (0%) = Shield depleted.

 

Shield shrinking would take 2 seconds (minimum) at 2.5m/s.

 

A bow could one shot it, a shotgun could shred it, a rocket could blow it up it, and a rifle could deplete it. All at the same rate.

 

Whether this takes crit damage into account or whether it is affected by status procs (Magnetic)

 is up to DE. These are NOT the final stats, just examples of how the mechanics would work.

 

This means that they can still nullify powers, but don't become a Demon Wall at higher levels.

 

This is another thread I saw a while ago with some interesting changes: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/372810-nullifiers-are-three-balanced-enemies-but-one-unbalanced-one/

Edited January 25, 2015 by Prof_Blocks_007

[Jeloxale]

They're fine.

[Centias]

I'm going to tell you right now, the Detron would be bad news. The white crewmen with the Detron on Jupiter can already hit pretty hard over a pretty large distance with that thing. And it shoots faster. You would just be going inside the bubble even more dangerous.

[Prof_Blocks_007]

I'm going to tell you right now, the Detron would be bad news. The white crewmen with the Detron on Jupiter can already hit pretty hard over a pretty large distance with that thing. And it shoots faster. You would just be going inside the bubble even more dangerous.

 

Perhaps not the Detron then, although it would still be an improvement to the balancing, compared to the Lanka.

[Archistopheles]

Give them Pentas that we can dodge, and take away their sniper rifles. Problem solved.

[Mesyra]

give them a tetra. 

[ArXinity]

Spectra is never considered

[tris1]

it does need a nerf in some kind of way be it one of these

 

reduce the damage of the lanka they use by half

only stop tenno powers not bullets

let there bubble shield be effected by crit damage

if inside there bubble they have to use melee not the other weapons

[Centias]

Perhaps not the Detron then, although it would still be an improvement to the balancing, compared to the Lanka.

 

Really, there are a lot of options. I'd be all for giving him a weak Tetra or Spectra. He should just have something short range to attempt to defend himself from approaching threats, and Spectra fits that bill perfectly. Detron would too if it didn't tend to hit like a truck in the hands of enemies. I think it has something to do with the radiation damage.

 

And the other thread you mentioned definitely had the right idea. Not all of these effects even belong on one enemy, and this one enemy doesn't also need a strong weapon. It's a defensive enemy, he doesn't need strong offense at the same time.

[monkeys9ab]

remove_nulifiers_from_the_game

[_Je_Suis_Bruxelles_]

They're fine.

 

No,they're not.

 

I can kill them faster using an unranked Prisma Gorgon than with a fully loaded bow or sniper rifle.

 

They are forcing me to play the game with weapons I dislike, in a manner that does not fit my playstyle.

 

While I CAN beat them, I have to abandon my bows and sniper rifles after putting so much time in them .

 

I cannot help to ask why DE is releasing weapons like Panthera ? Why they have a Primed Charged Chamber ready for us ? Why are they allegedly working on a new bow ?

 

To use them where? On Drako ,between spams?

[-Kyuubi-]

broken enemy is broken ...

 

remove_nulifiers_from_the_game

[SgtFlex]

They're fine.

*snip*

Instead of spamming this throughout every thread, how about reading OP's post and actually countering arguments

 

 

As to OP, I wouldn't suggest the Detron. Once again, that takes the purpose away from another crewmans role (Right now, they take the role of the sniper crewman, plus more). This would ruin the role of a Detron Crewman. I would suggest something that's just another assault rifle, like the Tetra, which isn't used in any of the Corpus faction right now.

 

They need balancing, but I don't want them removed from the game by any means.

 

I'll post what I posted in another thread concerining the alert

 

 

Nullifiers

Seriously, these guys are too many units rolled into one. Where the Corpus Tech used to be the highest DPS unit in the Corpus, the Nullifiers now excel their role with Lankas. We also see that a Nullifier is basically a Corpus sniper. What's the use of a Sniper if the nullifiers themselves spawn more often, and take their role as well?

 

Not only that, but couple the fact that these guys can't even be affected by throwing weapons (DE, did you even think this through?) nor CC ground slams, this is one of the most OP units in the game. Replace his weapon with something normal like a Tetra, and remove the fact that he can't even be CC'd by normal means (ie Slam attacks)

 

Overall, I get that this unit seemed like a good idea, but he's no where near balanced. Do this, and I'll be happy with Nullifiers.

Edited January 23, 2015 by SgtFlex

[Prof_Blocks_007]

Also, (although I'm not quite sure) don't the Nullifiers move just as quickly as any other corpus units? I mean, they're carrying a bulky shield generator on their backs! Surely that would slow them down?

 

It would make more sense if they were equipped with a Tetra, seeing as it isn't used by any other corpus. (Thanks SgtFlex)

[UncleWalrus]

I've had some interesting suggestions about fixing them from a friend.

Give their shields a legit healthpool, scaling with their level. Not an arbitrary 14 shot limit to breaking.

Make their sheilds not overlap. Either rework their AI to not want to cluster up into a 4-layer impenetrable onion of doom and semi-auto railguns, make their shields shrink so they can't overlap if they get too close, or both.

Also, maybe make them not have their bubble always be on, and only turn it on when they detect you, not unlike an Eximus snowglobe.

[Malyg0s]

Their nulifying aura needs  some form of nerf, and i think making the aura a little smaller would be a start, because a shotgun is still gonna have trouble hitting them even when you are inside their aura's max range. Allow bullets to pass through the aura unhindered. if i use a shot from Paris Prime or dread that can deal upwards of 200000 damage, i would expect that to show on the enemies health, not slightly shrink the aura. also, reducing their spawn rate slightly in the higher end defenses etc would be good, because they are still there but you dont have to kill 40 of them to be able to use an ability.

[Tsoe]

they ll be fine when they will buff block system

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

In my opinion, Nullfiers should be buffed... Make their shield much harder to break with gunfire making it more viable to get close and melee. Maybe change their weapons, but other than that, they are a very welcome change from the general fodder that most of the troops have become.

[Prof_Blocks_007]

I have added more to the OP, including an idea for new shield mechanics that balance them for bows, rifles, and launchers.

[Kratos]

Nullifiers have caused many deaths from what I have seen, something not even the Bombards have accomplished. I have been stopped, Twice now, on T4D, when the pod had more than 10k HP left, on Wave 30 for no reason. Nullifiers really need to have their damage nerfed, and their shield changed to be purely killed by damage, not "Amount of bullets."

[Prof_Blocks_007]

Yes, this is a bump of the thread. It needs to be noticed.

[Mesyra]

again, give them a tetra.

[NoShoes]

Yeah these guys do crazy damage, the overtake event with the shield drain really shows how imbalanced these guys are, without shields and about 700 health on Nyx I pretty much get one shot by these guys and it's tough trying to peek out and hit them from cover since they just lock on and kill you pretty much as soon as you poke your head out unlike the grineers or normal corpus crewmen.

I wholly agree that their weapons should have some sort of accuracy penalty or be dodgeable with jumping/wallsliding whatever just so they don't blast your head off as soon as you so much as look at them funny.

[Trancestep]

The Overtake event reminded me of the classic DOOM campaign "The Plutonia Experiment" wherein any given level would have upwards of 50-100 cyber demons, often in one single area. Before, one or even five cyber demons spread out was a nice interesting challenge and was actually one of the boss fights in the first DOOM installment. When there's 100 of them staring you down...

 

 

+1 OP. Either nerf the nulifiers or reduce the amount that spawn.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Trancestep

[OnimaruX]

Wat r u casuls?