The Rhino Syndrome

[-CM-Shymaw]

This annoying and disgusting way to play has spread over the community for a long time now, just like a virus. After the trade system was released, high end prime weapons accessibility has been so easy that even a mastery 3 player may obtain a full prime set for himself. 

 

Before trading the problem that rot the game was that you could access Rhino way too early. That frame is all okay for me but iron skin as an ability is way too good in those early missions, which leads to those inexperienced players in later missions, facetanking everything while shooting with their Somas, standing still.

 

Now you are able to access the whole endgame set after just a couple hours of playing. And guess what frame most of the people are getting? :___: The freaking all great Rhino Prime, and of course with the Boltor Prime to make it worse. Now you try to host a T4 Survival just for fun when half of your invite requests are something like "inv plzz rhino prime" -> i check the profile, mastery 3. I skip that player. 

This is getting out of control. I liked Rhino a little one year ago. Now i see only these mindless animals just acting like some bad bots walking towards enemies with their golden skin on, they stop, and start shooting with their Boltors, which I nowadays mind as the mating call of a this wild Rhino. 

 

So what is the point of this post then? 

1) Take the Iron Skin away or change it. Those players, playing 85% of the time with Rhino will NEVER get ANY better in this game. Same old formula. Iron skin, run, locate enemies, stop and stand still, shoot, win.

2) Trade system is a great thing but definitely broken, giving recently started players a change to get end game weapons instantly. After they have played +100 hours only Rhino+Boltor combo they are leaved with only a few better weapons to play with in the future and a really narrow Warframe experience.

 

Just bring back that old beginning of Warframe. Various good weapons to choose from while progressing and getting better. I dont want to see that golden juice covered frame in my life anymore, it ruins the fun. I just want to hear that what you think about this. <__<

Sorry for hating, here´s a potato for you. <3

 

 

[Felnia]

eh i dont really care at least you can troll them a bit with limbo to have a bit of the fun

[TheVerdict]

Ey ey ey...

True.

Ahh, thanks for the potato. *nom nom*

[Genzaio]

personally rhino at early levels is good, helps new players progress.

 

It seems a few people have tainted the name of Rhino for the rest of us that werent doing any bad..

[Rakshal]

Iron Skin doesn't need a nerf, it needs a rework. It is too strong in the early game with no mods but is useless in the late game with mods.

 

Prime gear needs to be master locked and can only be bypassed by Prime Access.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Rakshal

[geninrising]

I totally agree. Currently it's my belief that Prime frames and weapons should be mastery locked.

 

Currently the game only has progression through it's mods and the archaic MR system. GIVE MR MEANING!

[Nyrakav]

But then Rhino Tryhar- I mean mains will whine.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I wonder if there's a way DE can make abilities like that ignore the level system. So Iron Skin would be as effective in Mercury as Ceres. I regret playing as Rhino early on because I had to break a lot of the bad habits I got from not ever taking shield damage throughout the early portions of the game. Fortunately the Rhino Prime and Boltor Prime weren't out when I started playing, or I fear I may never have appreciated anything in the game but ROFL-stomping enemies, which gets boring in any game quickly, and consequently would've enjoyed the game less.

[QuiteCrazy]

Iron Skin doesn't need a nerf, it needs a rework. It is too strong in the early game with no mods but is useless in the late game with mods.

 

Prime gear needs to be master locked and can only be bypassed by Prime Access.

true

[Sangad]

hmmm This is strange. Rhino was my 2nd frame but i didnt turn into a person who just stands still with IS and shoots things

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

I main Rhino because I like the feel of him, but I do agree that Iron Skin needs a rework (for the same reasons as Rakshal said).

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

If the player enjoys playing this way, I don't see why we should change it based on what other people think of their playstyle. If the playstyle is bad for you personally, and you find it detrimental in trying to execute it, sure, but I will never advocate to change something because someone doesn't like that someone else does it if it need not affect them in the first place. 

 

Saying that, player progression is taking a step toward, "just get this and be done with it", which I don't find to be a very good use of dev creative space. 
Should the developers change it so that we are able to play through the game, like you said, as before, where we farmed to get to the content these new players obtain, nowadays, near immediately, I think would drastically benefit these newer players in learning the game and experiencing a lot more of the content. 
I personally mained Excalibur for my first 100 hours while I learned the game and was too wary to ditch my friend. I have since become comfortable with all/most of the warframes, their functions and playstyles, while I unfortunately tend to see little exploration with new players because veteran players tell new players that "these are best, get them". 
As I said, I do not want to advocate for a change that would potentially damage a playstyle people want to play with, but working toward that playstyle of being the OP warframe may be better suited to immediately obtaining it.

[Eric1738]

if that's what they want, then so be it. they will know iron skin's limit and how they shouldnt face tank all the damage when enemy level is high enough. u say they dont play those difficult missions because of trading? well then, some players might not be that hardcore, or they might even be casual players. let them enjoy the time to crush over easy mobs. it's FINE.

[Oranji]

Hosting T4 Surv - Need nova, loki

 

or simply

 

Hosting T4 surv no rhino pls tnx.

 

done.

 

Saves u all the time u spent ranting about rhino.

If anything is broken it's the mastery rank required to obtain these end-game prime stuff.

and no I'm not a rhino player.

 

Edit: Also Devoid's post +1.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Oranji

[Corvenir]

No point in complaining, its your key you make the rules.

A good suggestion would be moving around bosses on a monthly musical chairs

[burnoutsniper]

I used to be that guy with Rhino + Soma, but then I found the glory of Nyx. PRAISE NYX

[Aeiroth]

Probably no point in complaining. I personally want the old Iron Skin back. 100% Invulnerability for a few seconds with maximum Aggro so that he actually acts like the damn Tank he is supposed to be.

[RoosterTheRed]

I main a Rhino Prime. I have for a LONG time. I've spent hundreds of hours playing as him. 

 

 

And personally, I agree with you to a degree. The thing is, Rhino is meant to be a tank. And as it is, he's one of the worst tanks out there right now. He's easily outdone by Valkyr and Trinity, to just name a few, when it comes to the tanking department. 

 

I use Rhino Prime because without him, I would die on a normal basis. I use only melee weapons, so this whole "stand still and shoot" thing doesn't apply to me, or those who play like me. 

 

However. Having played Rhino for such a long time, I can agree with many of your points, OP. Whenever I go into a game in the lower levels, I'm often surrounded by idiots using Rhino as a get-out-of-death-free card. 

 

The stereotype of "Rhino players suck" has gotten so bad, that I can rarely get into a high-level mission via the Recruiting channel. I'm a moderately high mastery, I have god-tier melee weapons that can spread death and gore across the battlefield, but I'm often not invited because I'm a Rhino. 

 

That being said, I can agree that Rhino could use a change. For example, Mastery locks for Prime gear. That's a no-brainer. 

 

 

And perhaps, when it comes to Iron Skin, they could change it so that if you use a firearm, you take 50% more damage? This would encourage Rhino players to do their jobs and tank the enemies, as well as aggro enemy fire by using a short-range melee weapon. 

 

And perhaps, more importantly, stop idiots from taking advantage of my beautiful Rhino buddy. 

[-CM-Shymaw]

hmmm This is strange. Rhino was my 2nd frame but i didnt turn into a person who just stands still with IS and shoots things

I had the same thing. It never got me :D

[Beetamus]

My main warframes are Rhino (both normal and prime) and Excalibur. I have found that watching both of those frames you either have a great player, or absolutely terrible one, very rarely anything in the middle.

 

Make the MR higher for certain weapons, or, get ready for it, NERF THE WEAPONS THAT ARE TOO POWERFUL.

I'm waiting for the flames... lol.

 

Personally I think anyone who responds to the question "what's the best X?" with a direct answer is to blame. The answer should be "what do you like?"

 

I like the shotguns and melee. Fragor FTW. 

 

And to finish, you can't help stupid. My last T4 interception had me as a Loki and 3 Rhino Primes. They told me over voice chat because I was a Loki, if I died, they wouldn't come to help. Guess who kept dying and had to be helped up by me. Yup, you can't help stupid...

[-CM-Shymaw]

I main a Rhino Prime. I have for a LONG time. I've spent hundreds of hours playing as him. 

 

 

And personally, I agree with you to a degree. The thing is, Rhino is meant to be a tank. And as it is, he's one of the worst tanks out there right now. He's easily outdone by Valkyr and Trinity, to just name a few, when it comes to the tanking department. 

 

I use Rhino Prime because without him, I would die on a normal basis. I use only melee weapons, so this whole "stand still and shoot" thing doesn't apply to me, or those who play like me. 

 

However. Having played Rhino for such a long time, I can agree with many of your points, OP. Whenever I go into a game in the lower levels, I'm often surrounded by idiots using Rhino as a get-out-of-death-free card. 

 

The stereotype of "Rhino players suck" has gotten so bad, that I can rarely get into a high-level mission via the Recruiting channel. I'm a moderately high mastery, I have god-tier melee weapons that can spread death and gore across the battlefield, but I'm often not invited because I'm a Rhino. 

 

That being said, I can agree that Rhino could use a change. For example, Mastery locks for Prime gear. That's a no-brainer. 

 

 

And perhaps, when it comes to Iron Skin, they could change it so that if you use a firearm, you take 50% more damage? This would encourage Rhino players to do their jobs and tank the enemies, as well as aggro enemy fire by using a short-range melee weapon. 

 

And perhaps, more importantly, stop idiots from taking advantage of my beautiful Rhino buddy. 

 

That is the point. I´d like to see Rhino as a cool versatile tank, maybe with the iron skin reworked. But now there is so many players abusing him early on. And what about that Iron skin would be a skill that makes all enemies run at you and give you damage resistance buff?

[-CM-Shymaw]

I would like to see this mentality to change. No more, more DPS, better the weapon. We should be able to somehow increase the skillcap of Warframe. Then it would be more rewarding to play.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Shymaw

[LazyKnight]

If someone wants to play rhino for their entire warframe experience, that's their choice. Not everyone plays this game as a character collection game were the goal is playing all the advanced characters. Also, some people like to stand in fire, and iron skin lets them do so poorly. 

 

 

I would like to see this mentality to change. No more, more DPS, better the weapon. We should be able to somehow increase the skillcap of Warframe. Then it would be more rewarding to play.

If Warcraft is an indication, only a tiny fraction of a given player base wants anything to be skill based. Most people seem to like being able to overpower an obstacle. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by LazyKnight

[Kruglov]

The thing I dislike the most about new players using Rhino is they never use Stomp.

They still stand perfectly still firing into crowds, SURROUNDED BY ENEMIES, with their team also surrounded by enemies, the pod can be getting hit by bombard rockets, and the Rhino's solution is to just fire at the bombard.

They never stomp, one of the best aoe stuns in the game. It sickens me.

 

 

Iron Skin has needed new mechanics for a long time.

 

I was always hoping they'd add some sort of evasion/damagereflect to it.

 

But now Mesa has Shattershield so that idea probably won't ever happen now.

 

 

As for the general idea behind this thread, there is a chatbox in game. Pressing "C" also allows you to verbally communicate with your team.

If you have a crappy Rhino... TELL them they are crap. Explain to them to stop running away from the team. If typing doesnt work, shout it.

If neither works LET THEM DIE.

 

I'm serious.

Not every warframe player deserves to be revived.

If they are playing stupidly and hampering the team, let them die.

The other night on a Ceres defense someone was playing a level 8 or 9 Nyx and trying to be a hallway hero.

This nyx was trying to melee level 30-40 NAPALMS with her tipedo.

 

After the 3rd death I stopped reviving her and the other two players followed suit.

Once Nyx realized she was going to be out of revives she turned on the microphone and said in a muffled 11 year old's voice "F*** you"

After that she cowered from the spooky grineer in the same room as the rest of the team.

She probably didn't learn her lesson.

And chances are she never will.

 

But it made our gameplay experience far more pleasant due to the other 3 of us making a decision not to help her dumb &amp;#&#33; and perform our own unsyncronized version of Swan Lake with napalms and bombards as backup dancers.

 

This works with Rhino players too.

Yes a Rhino is a much tougher egg to crack (nearly 5x tougher).

But a Rhino will die just like anyone else because his defensive skill doesnt scale.

 

You can avoid bad Rhinos in voids by:

 

- check their secondary and melee weapons. if they are using something like a lato or cronus you can bet its probably a bad Rhino.

- ask them if they are using a Roar-based build before you start the map. if they dont know what roar is you can bet its probably a bad Rhino.

- ask them what mods are on their primary weapon. if they have point strike or vital sense on their boltor prime you can bet its probably a bad Rhino.

- check their mastery rank. Is it below 5? It's probably a bad Rhino.

- Do they have Steel Charge and not Rifle Amp / Corrosive Projection? Do they have a good melee? No? Bad Rhino.

- does the person in question not respond to questions asked of them in the chat or on the mic in the lobby? No? Bad Rhino.

- does the person in question know how to copter? No? Bad Rhino

- ask them how much it costs them to use Stomp. If it's 70 or more it's a bad Rhino.

- are they using Djinn/Shade sentinals? Bad Rhino.

- do they have a tattoo that says STEEL FIBER 4 LIFE? Bad Rhino.

- do they only own a Rhino and no other warframes besides starter frames? BAD RHINO.

 

If you feel they are a detriment use these to determine their level of bad and if they are worth playing with.

If not, boot them, remake the group.

 

Remember: Warframe is a video game. It is meant to be fun. Don't let others ruin your fun.

[Holeypaladin]

Iron Skin doesn't need a nerf, it needs a rework. It is too strong in the early game with no mods but is useless in the late game with mods.

This.  This exactly.

 

Iron skin is a broken skill that's way too powerful early on, and way too weak later in the game.  It has some major scaling issues that need to be fixed to make Rhino viable for all game content.

 

Rhino is meant to be a tank.  This is true.  But early on in the game, he is TOO GOOD at tanking since iron skin can be refreshed to provide 1200 ferrite health without any mods at all, against level 10 enemies.  So people learn bad habits that carry on into the late game.

 

However, when enemies get past level 30, they blow through iron skin as if it's nothing, tearing Rhino apart and making him completely worthless as a tank.

 

There are two ways to fix Rhino's iron skin.  The first is to make it a generic duration-based damage reduction power like Link, but with CC immunity.  It seems a bit bland and boring since such skills already exist, but it'll get the job done, and Rhino will still take damage early on forcing players to learn better habits.

 

The second is a formula Ronyn and I were working on as part of an iron skin rework project.  It basically uses a percentage (I think 100% is good) of max shields + max health for iron skin's health, and applies armor based damage reduction as well.  Rhino's armor would need to be buffed to 300 or so for this formula to scale well, but it means that those low-ranked players with low-ranked redirection and vitality mods won't get the godlike iron skin health that lets them learn bad habits, while making iron skin scale better into endgame content for players who know how to build him.

 

Another thing we discussed (in game, not on the forums) was moving Rhino's parts out to Pluto, so that he's no longer a noob frame easily obtainable on Venus.  This would justify making him better at his tank role, and hopefully by Pluto people have learned to play the game somewhat.