Trend Towards Under Power Is Upsetting

[SolarDwagon]

Opticor is a terrible example, it performs well at all levels and is one of the most flexibly built weapons in the game, but the rest of your weapons are fair points.

One thing that makes many new weapons look "underpowered" is that when you look at the restrictions on building them, you realise that they're intended for low/mid Mastery players. If the devs make a new weapon at Mastery 3, they don't want to make it on par with the Soma, they want to make it on par with other weapons at a similar stage in the game (On a side note, the Soma really highlighted the effects of introducing powerful weapons at too low a mastery-it's never, even on release, been THE most powerful weapon, but it IS very easy to get high performance out of, which has kept it regarded as top tier even though on raw stats it's eclipsed by many other weapons, which are harder to use-and by dropping it too low, every person who could, grabbed it instantly).

Secondly, the devs are currently, at least to my eyes, experimenting with suprising numbers of novel weapons. I don't know where they keep getting their ideas. The problem with novel weapons is that it's very hard to judge their actual effectiveness-for example, the Kohm. It probably looked quite decent on paper at DE's end, but as they realised, take it into a real situation and it was garbage. I haven't used it since the buff, but I'm using it to highlight the problems of new firing mechanisms and experimentations. Couple this with the normal dev enthusiasm for "How cool" is their latest idea, and it's very easy to overrate gameplay effects of new mechanisms, and downplay the stats in overcompensation.

Thirdly, while you might think you're in good company complaining about the amounts of underpowered weaponry, and indeed you are, the outcry is nothing compared with that when they downgrade weapons. From a human nature point of view, if someone gives us less than we deserve, and then makes it up to us (which DE are capable and willing to do), we're normally far less outraged about the original insult of less, than when someone gives us more than they intend, and then take it away from us. The amount of screaming on the forums when the Soma was downgraded, the fact there's still residual ill-will over what Damage 2.0 did to the Acrid (which seems to have had a stealth buff at some point, it can definitely ruin the day of most Corpus at least), prove this.

Now, the Ballistica, which is central to your argument, that does feel like it's DE's unloved child. It's been out for a long time, and even since release people have had issues with it. It's also very definitely the sore thumb of the syndicate rewards, although the Dual Cestra's are significantly below the tier of the other four as well, but they're actually decent.

Finally, I agree that just because someone has found a way to make a weapon work for their playstyle, does not mean it is where it should be. Often, something else would actually work better with the same style anyway, and pride and obstinacy are in the way. Take a step back from "I'm so awesome I made this work" and ask "Does this actually work as well as anything else I COULD be using, at a similar point in the game?". With the Kohm on release, the answer was so definitely no. The Ballistica is still so definitely no. If you favour daggers over longswords (by the way I find daggers pale for maneuverability compared to dual swords), that doesn't mean that daggers are actually worth using for most people. (Daggers really need to get their own thing, like maybe insane crit rates or every dagger has a stealth bonus or something. Their hitbox issues just wreck them.)

Edited January 29, 2015 by SolarDwagon

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

 

 

 

(quote)

^This guy is absolutely legit - I use Mogamu and1 him for guidance in making weapon builds. Check him on YouTube and see for yourself how good he is.

[HibikiGanaha]

Kohm is awesome, Opticor is awesome, Limbo is amazing, and mesa is great as well.  I've heard that the glaxion is amazing as well, looking forward to formaing that.

[Don_T_Shoot]

-snip-

 

"The costumer is always right" is not to be taken literally.

 

Yeah, some of those cosplay outfits are just wrong.

[KlarVyvern]

Yeah, some of those cosplay outfits are just wrong.

[taiiat]

Kohm is an acceptable Weapon. it's impractical but it's very usable with Tainted Shell if you ask me.

 

Opticor isn't useful?

it's quite similar to Bows, which are the most popular Weapons in the game. they annihilate anything in their path.

 

 

and now i start chuckling.

Limbo is one of the most powerful Warframes in the entire game. he carries teams on his back with ease.

has Ability Synergy, overall making for an extremely effective Warframe.

if Limbo isn't enough AoE nuke AFKfarm for you, well, too bad.

 

as for Mesa, all i can say is she doesn't fit her theme well at all. and some Abilities are underwhelming, while others are just short of cheating.

Volt, Banshee, Saryn, Et Cetera are all better Gunslinger Warframes than Mesa is.

 

blah blah everyone else is the minority

with a few of your examples, YOU are the minority. that can't take extremely effective Equipment and make it work at all.

 

 

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i won't ever discourage Digital Extremes from coming up with different ideas.

but those ideas will likely need tweaks here and there upon implementation.

 

 

like Panthera could be okay if it's Ammunition consumption was lower, so you don't need to Reload so often. and perhaps had another aspect to it. also increase the base Rate of Fire, christ it feels so clunky firing that slowly.

i'm also not sure how thrilled i am that the blades are fired vertically. Enemies don't stand on top of each other so idunno, it seems odd. both Panthera and Miter should have like, atleast 10 Enemy Punch-Through or something like that though.

 

and the Secondary Fire, i'd want 100% Slash tbh, as it would thematically be amazing, and would also make it more effective. (hell, the Weapon could just always be 100% Slash Effect, hehe. would make the Primary Fire interesting too)

and... some sort of limit to it's Rate of Fire. if i try to attack something with that Secondary Fire that is currently unkillable, it uses the entire Magazine instantaneously.

[Don_T_Shoot]

 

Yeah, some of those cosplay outfits are just wrong.

-snip-

 

 

No puns, just grammar nazi-ing you.

[KlarVyvern]

No puns, just grammar nazi-ing you.

I see, English isn't my native language.

[HibikiGanaha]

No puns, just grammar nazi-ing you.

That's not grammar, it's spelling.

[DeMonkey]

Despite the fact that i enjoy using all of the weapons in the game, and i'm a complete advocate of more under powered weapons as long as they're fun, the people saying you cannot compare the Synoid and the Rakta are unfortunately wrong. Each weapon requires exactly the same amount of reputation, you get it from the exact same tier and it will cost you just as much to advance through all these tiers. For this reason each of the syndicate weapons must be compared with one another. Why should members of the Red Veil have the option to pick up what is statistically a poor weapon in comparison to something they can get from a different Syndicate. The current syndicate system is lacking at the moment, i feel no dedication or emotion for my current syndicates and many other players will feel the same way. And for that reason i know people will choose Cephalon Suda for the Gammacor and not because it fits with thier ideology. This is not the way i believe DE wanted the syndicates to work, pick syndicate X for Power creep weapon, pick syndicate Y for illogical downgrade'.

[Awazx]

Completely agree.

 

Reasoning and analysis similar to yours are discussed among the members of my clan.

 

The conclusion we draw is that [DE] not enough play their own game. They are limited to launch new weapons and new frameworks useless in a desperate attempt to keep the interest of the players.

 

Me and my clan are amazed at the many (and absurd) inconsistencies that inhabit the game. An example is the content of your thread.

 

Do not want you to misunderstand me: I love Warframe. But sometimes I think in [DE] there are two teams; one that does everything we love, and one that makes the game a step forward and two backward.

[Awazx]

What's bad about Sheev, or Kohm? Both are capable of some immense damage.

 

Read the OP thread. 

[Zirion_Bk]

Read the OP thread.

OP only says that they are mastery fodder. However, both are capable of some, as said before, immense damage. For example: I went through a solo t4 sabotage with the Kohm dealing the majority of my damage. It was only potatoed and modded for radiation, and it wrecked faces everywhere. It's not bad, and it did not even need a forma to get me through a t4.

[(PSN)BROTHA-KEN3K]

I have over 400 hours on PS4 and over 150 on PC. I have been preparing these thoughts for some time.

 

The recent weapons, mods and warframes in the game have been getting EXTREMELY under powered. What is upsetting is the response Steve Sinclair had to criticism regarding the Rakta Ballistica in Dev Stream #45. Nobody can deny that the ballistica is very rarely used. On top of that nobody can deny that the rekta ballistica is utter garbage and a waste of time.  Steve Sinclair ignored that stats wise the Rakta is actually WORSE than the original and he felt the Syndicate power (which is weird and silly in my opinion) was enough to not only bring this heap of trash up to a viable weapon, but ALSO enough to justify it's rank as a TOP TIER REWARD for Syndicates!

 

You compare the worthless Rakta to the Synoid Gammacor, which is amazing and one is forced to wonder what scale is being used to make these weapons? The super powerful Synoid Gammacor is great on it's own AND has the Entropy effect. The developers seem to think this is fine. But in the same breath say the Rakta is also fine when it is useless on it's own and relies entirely on it's Syndicate power.

 

Lets look at some other weapons. The Panthera is very cool but almost useless. You have to mod for so many things you end up chasing your tail and achieving a weapon that is still not viable. The fact that it uses 5 ammo per shot is unusual and does no favors. But the truth is that you are better off just using a Miter, which you actually must build first before you can DOWNGRADE to the Panthera!

 

Lets face it, the Kohm and Paracyst are only good for Mastery. Outside of that they are only fun to look at.

 

The Redeemer was supposed to be an amazing gun blade but has too many flaws to be used end game. The best thing going for it is the very good shotgun blast.

 

The Opticor is fun to Master, but is viable for almost nothing past mid-game since Warframe relies heavily on massive hordes of enemies.

 

The Tiberon had no special features apart from accuracy and you're better off using a Latron Wraith or Prime.

 

The Sheev is embarrassing and not much more can be said.

 

The Buzzlok has a neat gimmick but that's where it ends. As a weapon it is useless due to horde style gameplay.

 

The Glaxion fills no role and would require 4-7 forma to make useful.

 

Lets look at the past two warframes. For Limbo, I don't know what to say that could possibly convey my surprise and disgust. It's like he was made by a different game studio. They have tried to add little things to fix his issues, but I would have preferred that DE said, "We're sorry, he was not well though out. We are taking him out of the game, rebuilding him and will return him at a later date." Limbo is just a zero sum flop.

 

Mesa is not so bad but we go back to the issue of scale. Shooting Gallery and Shatter Shield are simply circumcised versions of other skills which are BETTER!  It seems that the developers are fine with how these skills exist on other warframes, but for some reason chopped them up for Mesa. Why did they go the direction of weakening the skills instead of just adding or diversifying the effects? It makes no sense.

 

I've been speaking with many people who feel the same way and have observed the same strange trends so I have been inspired to write about it. With almost 600 hours of gameplay I also know what players are doing and who they play as. I look forward to seeing a larger community view on it.

 

 

When I started playing this game I used to use the Dex Furis as my secondary weapon all the time. I knew there were better weapons out there that out preformed them but at the time it was my favorite weapon to use. I put a few formas into the weapon and I used it for a long time even though it ate up ammo fast and the damage drops off in high tier missions. The reason I stuck with them is because I thought they were cool looking but after a while I moved on to better secondary weapons (I use the Lex Prime or Vaykor Marelok currently but is subject to change depending on the type of mission I am running).

 

With that being said, I have played with almost every weapon and every warframe in the game. There are weapons and warframes I feel that could be better(Buzlok & Hydroid), weapons and warframes I hate with a passion (Limbo & Shiv), and weapons and warframes if you give them some attention could kick some butt(Banshee & Braton Prime). There are the almost mandatory weapons (Boltor Prime, Soma/Soma Prime, Dread, Paris Prime, ect...) that are end game weapons when modded right and there are a host of other weapons that have the potential to be endgame weapons depending on your playing style and how much time you want to invest into making that weapon a top tier weapon.

 

But there are some weapons that just suck right out the gate like the MK1 weapons. No matter what you do to them they still suck and nerfing some of the potentially most powerful weapons in the game like the Penta and Angstrum's ammo capacity to the point they are not really usable unless you are burning through ammo restores or using some type of ammo scavenger/mutation mod. I am confident that over the course of this year DE is going to fix the balancing issues with all the weapons in the game. It is just going to take some time. It is not going to happen over night and we all should be patience and let these guys do their jobs.

 

Forums like this are a good think because it brings up existing issues with the current weapons and give a starting place for DE to focus on when they get around to balancing out these weapons.

Edited February 1, 2015 by (PS4)BROTHA-KEN3K