geninrising Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Shadows of the Dead is still extremely lackluster. Currently even though the damage has been scaled dramatically it falls exceedingly short of the mark for a useful ability. Unfortunately due to the health levels inherent in enemies there is no way that the Shadows can actually be useful. They are currently nothing more than a distraction with a lacking AI. I would suggest providing the shadows with a x3 multiplier in a subsequent balance pass to ensure that an army of the dead is able to serve more purpose than being bullet sponges. Additionally the AI should be upgraded in SotD to fit the mold of the infested style aggression, constantly seeking out targets and never hiding. They are already dead and enslaved by Nekros after all. Lastly, Mirage's mechanic for Hall of Mirrors needs to be implemented for all of the shadows allowing players to both see through and shoot through them. Desecrate honestly needs to have LS as well as mods removed from it's list of possibilities or changed to a durational aoe. Currently these are the only things that draw a player to using Nekros at all. To be absolutely crystal clear here. No frame should be relegated to the role of a farmer. Soul Punch needs to be a 1 handed action which does not interrupt reloads. This was talked about in a previous developer post and is a good idea. Many other frames now have a 1 that does not interrupt reload, make it equal. Terrify is FANTASTIC IMO atm and there is no criticism from me in it's current iteration. Edited February 2, 2015 by geninrising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 They are currently nothing more than a distraction That's all I ever use Shadows of the Dead for. Need to Rev an allie? SotD. Taking too much fire? SotD. Need to activate Life Support? SotD. Need to take a quick bathroom break? SotD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 That's all I ever use Shadows of the Dead for. Need to Rev an allie? SotD. Taking too much fire? SotD. Need to activate Life Support? SotD. Need to take a quick bathroom break? SotD S'what Terrify's for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzkyl Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 How is x4 multiplier going to make them any better? When that can already be achieved through modding. Thier AI is still poor, if they used the infested 'swarm them' AI it would be much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) S'what Terrify's for now. Well if you have a Range build with no Power Strength, it's just an annoying "Whoops. Accidentally pushed that" power. Edited January 30, 2015 by PickleMonster21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WiiConquered Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 They should change how SotD enemies scale, so their damage scales with the enemy's health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zagrax Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 They deff shouldn't even have taking cover as a priority. They should just beeline to the nearest point they can shoot enemies from and unload. Half the time I summon them, they're cowering behind crates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neogeo Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 That's all I ever use Shadows of the Dead for. Need to Rev an allie? SotD. Taking too much fire? SotD. Need to activate Life Support? SotD. Need to take a quick bathroom break? SotD Soul Punch revive instantly. Seem like you only use SoTD for distraction which it's not DE intention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melos-mevim Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 can I also add his stats need to be looked at? Why do his shields cap at 666 with a maxed redirection, do we really need the silly "ooooh spoopy frame spoopy number"? His armor and health are set at the average and this would be fine, if he had a very lucrative defensive ability, you know something that is effective as radial blind or invisibility. His abilities still need a little bit more work, all in all they have not done enough to make nekros an effective frame late game, or have any role besides "mash 3 to farm!" he is a god damn necromancer, a summoner of units to be used to out number and overwhelm his foes, for F*** sake DE make that happen! Tl;DR nekros needs to have his stats buffed, and there has not been enough done to his abilities to make him useful for more than 'farmville warframe edition' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elele Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 a summoner of units to be used to out number and overwhelm his foes, He's more like "summon meat shields, hide behind said meat shields, kill stuff himself" kind of summoner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood3vil991 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Soul Punch Changes: Soul Punch can be cast from any direction/orientation, meaning that Nekros doesn't have to orient himself to cast on a selected target.does not work i still have to orientate my self to cast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00zau Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Enemy on enemy damage as a whole needs work; Nyx has the same issue in that Choas'd or MC'd enemies will never do anything to each other past Saturn because HP scaling has outstripped damage scaling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtea Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Soul Punch Changes: Soul Punch can be cast from any direction/orientation, meaning that Nekros doesn't have to orient himself to cast on a selected target.does not work i still have to orientate my self to cast You sure? Now I can cast Soul Punch anytime while moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeWildlife Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I have been testing non stop with min-max strength and duration on the summons. Verdict? They are still too weak. Instead of killing nothing, they kill around 12 enemies per minute [(many frames can do this in 1 second)] Damage is better but because of the poor AI, doesnt anywhere near go far enough. Health is much better and seems fine where it is, many of the summons stayed alive for the duration of the summon. Tested using: Blind Rage, Intensify, Transient Fortitude, Narrow Minded, Primed Continuity, Constitutioin, Streamline, Redirection. Side note: As well as having STILL very weak summons considering my mod loadout, the Nekros was simply falling down like a piece of paper. A step im the right direction but i still think the damage boost to summons is still waaay bellow whats needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 I have been testing non stop with min-max strength and duration on the summons. Verdict? They are still too weak. Instead of killing nothing, they kill around 12 enemies per minute [(many frames can do this in 1 second)] Damage is better but because of the poor AI, doesnt anywhere near go far enough. Health is much better and seems fine where it is, many of the summons stayed alive for the duration of the summon. Tested using: Blind Rage, Intensify, Transient Fortitude, Narrow Minded, Primed Continuity, Constitutioin, Streamline, Redirection. Side note: As well as having STILL very weak summons considering my mod loadout, the Nekros was simply falling down like a piece of paper. A step im the right direction but i still think the damage boost to summons is still waaay bellow whats needed. Agreed. Nekros is still in no way viable as anything other than a farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Enemy on enemy damage as a whole needs work; Nyx has the same issue in that Choas'd or MC'd enemies will never do anything to each other past Saturn because HP scaling has outstripped damage scaling. MC works but unfortunately it requires a total pwr strength build to make it worthwhile and even then your MC target gets killed so easily that essetially makes the build virtually useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 OP updated to include AI feedback and Desecrate feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archwizard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 So, having run Nekros a few times today, my results thus far: Soul Punch, while slightly easier to use on-the-run, is still frustrating to have to target (but then, so are Smite, Venom, EV, MC, etc.); admittedly, I was deceived early on with the ease of casts almost leading me to believe it was totally free-aim, but that was in the middle of a consistent stream of enemies, and still had a hidden cooldown slowing me down between casts. The big issue it still has is that its AoE is inconsistent - when activated, there were several scenarios where casting it would result in an enemy to either side of my target being ragdolled with them, but just as many without any incident beyond the first target regardless of how tightly packed a group was, and rarely any dealing damage to foes behind the first target. There was precisely one scenario (on an Infested defense) where casting Soul Punch caused damage numbers to jump around for about 5 seconds. I'll consider this a freak occurrence, and an extreme outlier to my results. Terrify feels much better to wield, but I had at least one suspicious scenario where it appeared to wear off about 20 seconds early. Another freak occurrence, I suppose, since I was never able to reproduce it. The issue remains of enemy speed while affected, however. With melee assist enabled (this may be the main culprit, given Nekros' slightly increased speed), I found myself chasing after a lone Scorpion who was literally running in circles from its effects for nearly 10 seconds whilst swinging away the whole time (before I headed her off and she ran into my sword, of course). Shadows needs more testing - I've never really had an issue with their tangibility before, which is the main new feature for them. Problem with running public matches is that there's always someone there to steal their kills, so it's hard to measure their output. I've still noticed the AI being precisely the same, however. Patrolling one area, unable to spot enemies merely 10 feet away. Trying to melee enemies off to the side from the top of the ramp. Trying to hide in the middle of a firefight. All in all, the changes were mostly just quality of life, while still doing very little to the issues that have actually been plaguing Nekros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayaz2010 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I do not like change DE did to Soul Punch. Not sure about sound, but it seems previous Soul Punch sound is just gone for me. And in comparison to older animaton, I do not like new animation. It is just like "meh" animation. From quite unique animation he had, brought to this, common and shared with other first Warframes ability animation. Can you imagine, for example, casting Banshee's Sonic Boom with that animation? I cannot, thus I woud like to have old Soul Punchanimation brought back to life. To Terrify, I like that it can be recasted now. Now he got some kind of CC. But again, I do not like how animation got changed. Maybe this is jut matter of being used to old animation, but again, I would like to get old animation back. To keep the buff, but give back old animation. To justify my thoughts about animations, I would say abilities cannot be brought to same in measures of casting, animations and its restrictions. Some abilities can be used while airborne, others cannot. Some interrupts reloading, others does not. Some works for bosses, others does not work fully, others do not work at all. Thus, I keep my opinion I want old animations for both Terrify and Soul Punch brought back to life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elele Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Terrify is FANTASTIC IMO atm and there is no criticism from me in it's current iteration. The only complaint I have about Terrify is that it conflicts with SOTD. To make one cast of SOTD do enough damage, you need to make SOTD last as long as possible using Narrow Minded, which reduces range and makes Terrify pretty much only useful when the enemy is in your face. IMO DE should make Terrify's range unaffected by range mods, like Mesa's Peacemaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 The only complaint I have about Terrify is that it conflicts with SOTD. To make one cast of SOTD do enough damage, you need to make SOTD last as long as possible using Narrow Minded, which reduces range and makes Terrify pretty much only useful when the enemy is in your face. IMO DE should make Terrify's range unaffected by range mods, like Mesa's Peacemaker. I see the conflict and understand the merit of the idea however, for my part I do not use Narrow Minded so I am unaffected by this. Also in truth IDK if I would have a problem there anyway because I like them to gtfo for as long as possible usually as it guarantees I can pick up downed players easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callback Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) What if SotD shadows dealt percent max health damage on-hit? Similar to the way energy vampire deals % current per tick. The % would be based upon the enemy type's base weapon damage (Grineer with assault weapons may only do 2% per bullet, while a bombard may do 50), but overall ensuring that they can take out other enemies in a timely fashion regardless of health stacking. Edited January 30, 2015 by Callback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Looking for more feedback on this folks. We need to push these posts until the devs understand that partial fixes cannot be done. This is quite a long standing problem that needs to be addressed. We have had too many instances where things were made to be worse over time by the devs hopping around and never quite finishing a job. The a prime example of this was Ash and his Bladestorm problems and most recently Ember has gotten fiddled with and yet her problems lie unresolved while the devs hop over to Nekros to ALMOST fix his problems. Please don't let these kinds of things go. When the devs set about to bringing frames up to a worthwhile point, make sure they know what is wrong and continue to make it an issue that REQUIRES their attention. Otherwise we will end up with a bunch of frames that are only good to press one button over and over again(Farmer Nekros). We can help them change how people view frames and classify them as worthless or only good for one thing IF we are persistent in feedback. Let's allow Ember and Nekros a bit of the spotlight for a while until we see more and more people playing them. Edited January 31, 2015 by geninrising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akira_him Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Soul punch: targeting mechanism is bad, same for all skill #1, the rest of it are fine, but I really want it to become sonic boom with a narrower cone and longer range Terrify: Finally useful now because of recast SoTD: Still blocks ally bullets and sight, make them work like Mirror of halls, possibly make them able to pick up drops Desecrate: I rather want it to become a aura type ability that generates pulse of energy like EV to generate extra loots so I don't have to press 3 constantly so I can actually attack with my guns and use others skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geninrising Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 OP updated to include application of Mirage's Hall of Mirrors player interaction to shadows created by Shadows of the Dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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