Drakenbob Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Ok so I recognize I am potentially starting a flame thread here, and that's not what I'm trying to do, so please don't post flame responses. During some of the recent updates there have been a lot of changes that could be argued as just increasing the daily grind in Warframe. One example is the changes with 15.13 to the syndicate rep system. I can understand that DE feels that the syndicate missions were overshadowed by places like Draco, and I feel they took a reasonable step towards fixing the issue. However, as a player who only acquires rep in order to get the mods and weapons this just seems like an extension on the grind that I don't like to participate in. I have run all the missions before, I have done all the stuff and just having to run Draco for half an hour a day was considerably more enjoyable than now having to run something like Draco as well as 3 missions per syndicate in order to max out my potential. Even if I completely ignore medallions and speed through the missions as fast as possible my daily required time has approximately doubled. My second example is the Void Trader. I think this was a very useful way to introduce new content as well as a way to reduce the number of extra prime parts that people have available. However, after several visits by the trader, and my completionist mentality, I am now required to run dozens of missions to acquire the 30-50 parts that are required to get each mod or weapon. So here is my thing. I know that any game needs to have some sort of "endgame," but what other options do we have than just making everything a grind? DE what are your goals by doing these fixes? Is it all just in the name of "balance" and "endgame" or is there some purpose that we don't understand? Community, what creative solutions can you come up with to this problem, or will you just write me off as another whiny punk kid? Curious to see what you all think, and like I said, please no flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrimarchSystem Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Can someone give me the TL DR version of this?Seriously what's wrong with people? Stop with Wall of Texts already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastikator2 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Syndicate missions don't count toward the daily cap, neither do the medallions. That said, they are adding endgame, it's called "PVP", a tiny angry minority on the forums cry every time they spend time on endgame, but don't let that fool you, PvP is the future of Warframe, it's the only possible future, and many of those players will come around when they see how good it would be if it's balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoakinBlackforge Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Can someone give me the TL DR version of this? Seriously what's wrong with people? Stop with Wall of Texts already. "FACEPLANT" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Variatas Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 My second example is the Void Trader. I think this was a very useful way to introduce new content as well as a way to reduce the number of extra prime parts that people have available. However, after several visits by the trader, and my completionist mentality, I am now required to run dozens of missions to acquire the 30-50 parts that are required to get each mod or weapon. I know that I have been very happy to see him show up with fairly niche stuff lately. I think they need to provide a bit more speed on the time it takes him to recycle the old offerings, because he amount of ducats he takes has quickly gone from "depleting stocked prime parts" to "OMG MUST FARM MORE". They cleverly found a way to add a ton more grind to the game without adding any missions at all, and barely any content. That's an impressive achievement, but I don't think it's a laudable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS- Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yes I agree with your post. I'm afraid many players will end up leaving the game because of excessive grind and simply burning out. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubewano Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 don't you understand, grind is de's endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Variatas Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Syndicate missions don't count toward the daily cap, neither do the medallions. That said, they are adding endgame, it's called "PVP", a tiny angry minority on the forums cry every time they spend time on endgame, but don't let that fool you, PvP is the future of Warframe, it's the only possible future, and many of those players will come around when they see how good it would be if it's balanced. Bull. PvP isn't the entire endgame for most MMOs, and more and more it's an entirely separate endeavour from PvE. The game is a Co-Op shooter and it should embrace that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazeth Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Bull. PvP isn't the entire endgame for most MMOs, and more and more it's an entirely separate endeavour from PvE. The game is a Co-Op shooter and it should embrace that. Technically, the Solar Rails was seen as an end game thing by DE in the beginning, or so I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikingHelm Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Can someone give me the TL DR version of this? Seriously what's wrong with people? Stop with Wall of Texts already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastikator2 Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Bull. PvP isn't the entire endgame for most MMOs, and more and more it's an entirely separate endeavour from PvE. The game is a Co-Op shooter and it should embrace that. Team PvP is Co-Op. It's true that PvP isn't always the endgame for MMOs (which Warframe isn't, btw). The other option for endgame is mindless repetitive grind. No matter how you slice it, there's endless grind on one side, and PVP on the other side. Whether you like it is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermilionBoulder Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The game is a Co-Op shooter and it should embrace that. That's only partially true. Warframe can be Co-op when you're a new player, or if you do really high-level missions with a squad of people you know well. If you play with randoms, Co-op doesn't even get to exist for a fraction of a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeRobber Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Syndicate missions don't count toward the daily cap, neither do the medallions. That said, they are adding endgame, it's called "PVP", a tiny angry minority on the forums cry every time they spend time on endgame, but don't let that fool you, PvP is the future of Warframe, it's the only possible future, and many of those players will come around when they see how good it would be if it's balanced. Sir, I love PvP, but I'm going to have to disagree with you. PvP is almost a separate entity from the rest of the content. The steps they are taking with PvP are only going to widen that margin between the two. PvP progress sounds like it will be separate from PvE. While they are most likely going to make PvP much more interesting, people will be on a much more even playing field. It will be much less skewed towards players with awesome maxed mods. PvP will be much less endgame oriented than it is now, yet it looks like it will be a lot more fun. I want more endgame, but these kinds of changes are just as welcome, if not more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jylon Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 as i said so many times before, there is NO ENDGAME! a developing game company with continually added content supports their need of infinitely extending gameplay through various enhancements and plot/lore continuations. what most construe as endgame are just player efforts that required long times of play or grind, as is inherent in every MMO. just try and play any Korean MMORPG and you will see what is here is not even close to the torture of gaining max level and special items in those games :P DE is attempting to do just this as seen by the recent difficulty getting all of nova prime's parts (without buying from someone) and fully upgrading r10 rare mods and the tragic reduction of r5 fusions from t4 survival. still, i played a couple of those Korean MMOs and what is here is not even close to the hell of those other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hiero_Glyph Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Personally I feel that DE is handling the Void Trader in the wrong manner. The idea was to allow players to trade their unwanted prime parts for things they actually need in order to reduce their grind. Instead by placing exclusive and timed items there, it makes the grind more necessary than ever. The lack of any rotation so far also makes it feel like event items all over again. The ducats pricing continues to climb while the trade-in values are being reduced. In the end the grind is worse than it was before, especially if you factor in the guaranteed prime part for rotation C being removed. The idea is good but DE needs to focus on fewer, higher quality items from the Void Trader. Having a rotation of prime parts wouldn't hurt either, even if it is only a few per appearance. For being the year of quality the Void Trader is selling too much overpriced junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jylon Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Personally I feel that DE is handling the Void Trader in the wrong manner. The idea was to allow players to trade their unwanted prime parts for things they actually need in order to reduce their grind. Instead by placing exclusive and timed items there, it makes the grind more necessary than ever. The lack of any rotation so far also makes it feel like event items all over again. The ducats pricing continues to climb while the trade-in values are being reduced. In the end the grind is worse than it was before, especially if you factor in the guaranteed prime part for rotation C being removed. The idea is good but DE needs to focus on fewer, higher quality items from the Void Trader. Having a rotation of prime parts wouldn't hurt either, even if it is only a few per appearance. For being the year of quality the Void Trader is selling too much overpriced junk. it seems the ducat prices are climbing from what i have seen from first appearance. i honestly don;t want to do a ton of void all the time with the way the drop tables have become just to get these things. soon enough, all prime parts but the rarest ones will be 10 ducats to sell and baro's stuff will be 1k each plus 1 million creds to attain. i am no collector that must get it all, but i do want the ease to know that i could afford one of everything that comes if i happen to like them. the strategists at DE need to get a bit more intelligent about idealism versus reality that not everyone playing Warframe is on a minimum 5 hours a day with craptons of keys...or that a lot like to play solo and cannot stay in endless void missions over an hour to accumulate a lot. while i love this game as something to engage in 1-2 hours most nights, worsening rng droprates for prime items is eventually going to make me and others alike want to play less and less from this increasing pressure to participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)IIIDevoidIII Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Moved to General Feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Variatas Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Personally I feel that DE is handling the Void Trader in the wrong manner. The idea was to allow players to trade their unwanted prime parts for things they actually need in order to reduce their grind. Instead by placing exclusive and timed items there, it makes the grind more necessary than ever. The lack of any rotation so far also makes it feel like event items all over again. The ducats pricing continues to climb while the trade-in values are being reduced. In the end the grind is worse than it was before, especially if you factor in the guaranteed prime part for rotation C being removed. The idea is good but DE needs to focus on fewer, higher quality items from the Void Trader. Having a rotation of prime parts wouldn't hurt either, even if it is only a few per appearance. For being the year of quality the Void Trader is selling too much overpriced junk. I actually think that what would be better is to have a series of middle-grade items, with less timed exclusivity. Stuff should be in rotation for longer, and rather than going all at once, it overlaps. Basically, instead of only showing up for 48 hours every 2 weeks, he'd be there all the time, and have items for like a month, with something new replacing something old every 2 weeks or so. Him having stuff that is a grindy, but superior, version of existing content is just amplifying so many problems the game had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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