Would You Be Fine If Coptering Was Removed If We Keep Aerial Melee?

[izzatuw]

Watch devstream 49.

I seriously hope they 'normalize' coptering among all weapons. It doesn't make any sense to fling yourself at 99.9999% light speed when you have a dagger and only 40 miles per hour while you have a hammer.

Scott was careful not to say 'F' 'U' to coptering...but I'll say it.

F*ck coptering and everyone who abuses it to skip content. They don't really want to play Warframe...they want to play

with a Tenno instead of a bike.

You're trying to use logic among all things in this argument? Tell me how a heavy &#! Rhino can fling himself to the 2nd floor with a dagger just by jumping and slashing his dagger forward up to 5-10 meters irl than come back with that argument or how a frame like Nova or Nyx can drag themselves with a Jat Kitag instead of making the hammer drop to the ground just as they attempt it. Edited March 30, 2015 by izzatuw

[CandyDragon]

Coptering is a symptom of a much larger problem

 

Strangely however, many users are taking personal offense to something that exists because of flawed mechanics.

But clearly it is the "evil cheaters" who copter that are the problem.

 

Not the redundant and pointless stamina system.

Not the slow sluggish pace of the warframe.

Not the now dead parkour system being utilized next to nowhere

 

Clearly its the "cheaters"

 

Who somehow ruin the game for others by doing what they do.

 

 

Once coptering is dead it will become

"Those volt users"

once speed up is nerfed

"Those sprint users"

 

Speed running isn't going to go away just because you clip the ankles of players who do this.

[dddeath]

Yes, I would be totally fine with that. Honestly - which Ninjas are swinging their weapons to move faster...?.

same energy being ninjas that use space jetpacks and laser weapons... and keys to enter stuff. logic doesn't apply well in a fantasy/scifi game.

anyway don't remove coptering it's fantastic

, fast and fun. remove it from pvp only maybe.

[Vaxillian]

same energy being ninjas that use space jetpacks and laser weapons... and keys to enter stuff. logic doesn't apply well in a fantasy/scifi game.

 

Just because it's a fantasy/sci fi game doesn't mean that it should totally void of all laws of physics.

[izzatuw]

Just because it's a fantasy/sci fi game doesn't mean that it should totally void of all laws of physics.

Than we should remove both because sliding with melee to make you go further is non existant. So is using a weapon like Scindo to carry a frame like Limbo. If we applied too much logic people would have a problem with choice in their game. They can't go Heavy+Limbo. Sheev+Rhino. Etc

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

No keep coptering and lol at the ppl mad that others copter.

Its such an amazing mechanic that really allows for technical play.

[Vaxillian]

Than we should remove both because sliding with melee to make you go further is non existant. So is using a weapon like Scindo to carry a frame like Limbo. If we applied too much logic people would have a problem with choice in their game. They can't go Heavy+Limbo. Sheev+Rhino. Etc

 

I can see where you're coming from but what I mean is that we should at least include the basics in the laws of physics we don't need to take out everything and from what I recall Warframes are like skin tight mechs meaning extra strength, powers, ect.

 

So having a tiny frame with a big weapon could make sense to an extent.

[Boatsniper]

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the horrible world of ANIMATION BASED MOVEMENT.

 

Also known as what happens when artists (in this case, animators) attempt to do the job of programmers.

 

Artists and programmers have been "fighting", so to speak, over what will take precedent during moment-to-moment gameplay. In the old days of video games, there wasn't a lot of room on a cartridge or CD, leading to very simple animation systems. Thus, programmers had total control over the player and enemy movement. Artists then had to design around that. This is known as MOVEMENT BASED ANIMATION. It's a good development principle, which unfortunately gradually started loosing traction as time went by.

 

Let's look at today. Animation quality has gone up, but so have the artists' voices.

 

The artist makes a melee animation that took them 7 days to complete. It's really nice, but it's static, stiff, and blocks player input since it also moves the player entity. The programmer then needs to implement the animation with the artists breathing down their collective necks making sure the animator's hard work doesn't get "misrepresented" in the final product.

 

This is why coptering exists in the first place. The original aerial slide-attack animation moved the player entity a great distance, for some reason. The programmers, being understaffed and overworked, sloppily implemented the animation into the base movement system, resulting in the garbage momentum exploit we all know and love today. This is also evident in the aerial attack moves. If you aim toward the ground without triggering the slam, the attack animation must complete before control is handed back to the player once more. You end up swinging your weapon as if airborne, but you are on the ground, stuck until control is handed back to you at the end of the animation. The same can be said for Valkyr's Hysteria combos; you cannot change direction while performing them.

 

If I were to hazard a guess, I would put Digital Extreme's Warframe development staff to roughly 70% artists, 20% others, 10% programmers. Of course, this is all simply a hypothesis based upon the evidence present in Warframe's questionable design choices and severe lack of polish, plus Digital Extremes being an art-based studio. Don't get me wrong, most large studios have a surplus of artists to programmers, but the problems begin to surface when the artists take over the jobs of the programmers and designers.

 

Where does that leave coptering? It's a symptom, a problem, and a standard, all rolled up into a single momentum glitch. It's only going to get worse, and worse, and worse. It's too late to remove it now. The damage has long since been done, and the wound long since infected. Congratulations Warframe community. I hope you're happy.

[ARavenousPanda]

really, my only issue with coptering is it often requires a glitch to accomplish vaulting yourself from one end of a tile to another. My argument is it should be similar to aerial melee, so that both are just as effective for getting around. Coptering is fine, the random distances are not.

[Youre_Waifu]

Not unless they replace it with something equally fast. I don't think I'd be able to stand playing this game if I had to go slow.

[Gilmaesh]

yes i would be fine but aerial melee need to be rework a bit too. Make mobility skills more useful (they still have some uses here and there).

They should also buff the speed of some frame. Frost is a pain without helicoptering. Stamina need a rework too, but it seems that is already work on.

 

for aerial, I was thinking of a jump charge, where you hold jump and release, you got a charge icon (ie like a bow), the longer you hold the higher you go.

For speed maybe the more parkour you use, the more speed you get? 

They could also just lower a bit the speed you get or the reach you have in aerial for some weapon.

 

But one thing is important :

 

Not unless they replace it with something equally fast. I don't think I'd be able to stand playing this game if I had to go slow.

^

[Zerkev]

Oh so when Thor uses his magical hammer to fly its okay, but when space ninjas do it all of a sudden its "wrong"

[ARavenousPanda]

Oh so when Thor uses his magical hammer to fly its okay, but when space ninjas do it all of a sudden its "wrong"

imo its more that coptering heavily reinforces rush tactics. Copter whole tile, press 4, copter whole tile, press 4. It also leaves players behind (particularly if they are new). Im not saying pressing 4 is bad, im not saying they wont find a new way to rush, im simply stating that relying on a clipping glitch to achieve an end is, in itself, exploiting the game. Even if its accepted.

i like directional melee and if they tweak it a bit, and fix coptering for a lunge or something i think it would be fine

[Grom-84]

No! leave it as it is.

[Thalahssalyst]

If u want a reason for remove it, look at mi profile and check my post, i made a feedback questions about coptering.
We need to be taken out, we have parkour and parkour 2.0 coming...

[taiiat]

it's stupid to talk about these sorts of things in a complete vacuum. Warframe is not features in a vacuum from each other.

SpinDashing being a Melee tied Mobility tool IS a bad idea.

having the Mobility is good, especially if it could work with Parkour for a very complete, flexible system.

doing something in a vacuum and deleting the capability to SpinDash (instead being a Spinning Attack as originally designed) wouldn't happen, because it would be a net loss of features for the game.

if SpinDashes were replaced with a different system that still provided Mobility, but not Mobility that is specifically tied to using particular Equipment - then by all means.

as it is, that sort of Mobility does have use in Combat. it's not exclusively good for just abusing it to pseudo teleport across Tiles.

people want the Mobility source, they don't specifically want SpinDashing.

but this is not realized in most discussions, as they lack much discussion, and instead become childish bantering on why a feature should or should not exist in a theoretical vacuum with no game around it.

[egregiousRac]

Not unless they replace it with something equally fast. I don't think I'd be able to stand playing this game if I had to go slow.

 

I generally outrun coptering players as Frost using Maglev. The only weapons that are better at moving you quickly than Maglev are the Tonbo and the like. Throw on Rush as well and no weapon is as good as sliding and flipping.

[taiiat]

-snip-

and then you realize that you can do both.

Sliding as a bridger between SpinDashes, SpinDashes as a bridger between Slides.

[egregiousRac]

and then you realize that you can do both.

Sliding as a bridger between SpinDashes, SpinDashes as a bridger between Slides.

 

I am well aware that you can do that. I don't for two reasons:

 

1) I don't like how coptering feels to control (or more accurately not control)

 

2) I love my Jat Kittag. That thing can only copter at full berserker, and even then it isn't all that good at it.

[SomeCrackHead]

this is pathetic..... my irl friend can't copter and is always a slow poke. i bet these criers are just like him but also trying to make everyone limited to their movement speed just because they suck at it. please stop the cry, everyone who copters likes it and doesn't complain. you suck thus you complain, screw you all for trying to take it away from us. stop the reply on this thread and let it die

[SomeCrackHead]

people dont want spindashing

 

are you talking about sping attacking? that's the only thing i do and coptering for long distances. your argument is invalid. i attack with spin attacks more than combo's and I never would've felt any ninja-like feeling if it wasn't for spin attack. go play battlefield if you don't like it. trying to play a ninja game here.

[taiiat]

-snip-

durp, if you read words out of context and skew them, then ofcourse they don't make sense.

people that are looking for Mobility increases, aren't looking for SpinDashes in particular for it. they're looking for the mobility. HOW they get it, is not of importance to them.

there, i repeated myself.

maybe this time you're capable of reading it.

[Vesiga]

If you get rid of coptering, you're going to have the playerbase only asking for fast frames.
(Loki/Nova/Mirage/Etc) 

Say you're a Saryn, your speed is under 1 without Rush because Rush doesn't fit in the build.
You get a lot of people saying "lets drop the slow Saryn so we can run this quicker" 
then it happens almost every run you do. 
and that's the story why I always copter ._.

sure Coptering doesn't fit in "logic" 
other than heavy weapons swinging for momentum. 

but. 

This is a game. 
a game.


Unless they give the speed of 1.15 as a standard run speed for all frames, it should stay.
If people don't like it, don't use it.
If you don't like people speeding ahead with it, don't PUG it. 

[BalancedFury]

i would be fine because it looks very funky, but i would miss it if something doesnt replace it

[motorfirebox]

Just because it's a fantasy/sci fi game doesn't mean that it should totally void of all laws of physics.

Coptering isn't particularly more physics-defying than wallrunning. Especially since Parkour 2.0 is going to introduce the ability to stick to a wall without running.