Furious Javelin Augment. (After Nearly Two Weeks Of Playing With It)

[(PSN)theelix]

I can say that is mod is... 

Quite utterly useless. Even after doing the math for the adjusted damage, which I still didn't get, is just terrible. 

It's difficult to build for to begin with. 

 

I made a post on it, the Topic is Furious Javelin (Pre-Buff) and there, I show how you can maximize the damage and give yourself enough time for it to still be useful. 

Here's the build: http://goo.gl/AL86Ka

 

But there's so many problems with it and a lack of synergy with many powers that it makes it unusable. Like the fact that it does not work with Vauban's Vortex, which makes Javelins completely unable to target any of the enemies. 

 

Firstly, Excalibur as a frame is too slow to get from one enemy to the next. He runs very, very slightly faster that his walking speed. You only have about twenty four seconds, with my build, to get from enemy to enemy. If your Javelin killed everything within 20m of you, and you're running that slow, you're not going to be able to capitalize on your damage, thus wasting the bonus. 

 

Slash Dash is now NOT a viable option to get from enemy to enemy. You'll over shoot by a lot and you'll be needing the energy to recast, so using Slash Dash will just waste energy, time, and in some cases, add distance between you and the enemy. 

 

You can only really use Furious Javelin after you use Radial Blind, which, using my build, is going to be quite difficult. You can't change the Reflex guard for a streamline, like people may want to do. Why? Because the guy who was behind cover, or the guy who's beyond your range is going to be the guy that kills you because you can't do anything during the animation, which is long. If you trade Reflex Guard for Natural Talent, you still have the problem of their impecable aim which changes from session to session, being pin point if you're host, good enough if you're with good connection on a good host.

 

Secondly, Excalibur doesn't have the energy to use his other abilities before Furious Javelin. With the optimal build, which I will always say is mine, you need to have at least 250 energy in order to use Super Jump, Radial Blind and Radial Javelin. 

 

Third, melee combos in the game are too diffcult to hit unless you have Melee Auto Targeting on, which, on some weapons, makes it IMPOSSIBLE to hit the enemy at all. Some weapons, daggers, are very fast and have lunging combos which, whether you want them to or not, will make you push past the enemy. With Melee Auto Targeting on, you won't even get to hit the enemy at all and they'll be shooting you in the face. The whole build is MADE for melee; you're supposed to use Furious Javelin, get the buff, lose some health, gain some energy, Life Strike you health back with Surplus energy which will allow you to use your powers to stay alive. You can't do the last part if you can't really hit the enemies. PC players may have this easier, but if you can't land ALL of your melee hits on an enemy, then the mod's usefullness gets cut. 

 

Fourth, it's synergy with Surging Dash is absolutely atrocious. You could, for lower levels, switch Reflex Guard for Surging Dash. I tried it. It's not a thing you should ever, ever do. Surging Dash may get you near instantly to 2.5x, but then it runs out in 4 seconds, about the time that you'll need to get back to all the enemies you just passed. Since Duration is what effects Slash Dash, and you'll need that for Furious Javelin to mean anything, you'll be stuck with around 30m of distance on the Slash Dash. This does not make for good synergy. And honestly, I can't even use it to keep the combo going. The wind up time makes it impossible to get there before your combo runs out unless their right in front of you. Which then, you'll be too far away from them to utilize your combo. 

 

Fifth, Almost any other setup for a build makes Furious Javelin terrible. If you go for max duration, you don't have any power strength to make it work. Sure, you can hit 20 enemies with 5% bonus each enemy, and that's 100% extra damage... You could've hit one of the enemies a few times and had that. I know the combo is multiplicitive of the bonus, but that's still only 200% you'll probably get when you're done with them. You could go for max power strength, but then you don't have any duration to even hit more than two or three enemies. You could go for max range, but then you lose too much power strength for any amount of hits to be useful. You're down to 2% extra damage per hit, and you get, what, lets say 40 enemies. That's only 80% extra damage and some of the enemies are too far for you to get to with just your duration of 12 seconds, you could go for duration and range via Narrow Minded and Over Extended. But you have less range and only 24 seconds. So you'll probably only hit around 35 enemies for 70% extra damage for 24 seconds. Blind Rage and Over Extended? 35 enemies, 227.5% damage but only twelve seconds. There's more, some are kinda close, but I find that Blind Rage, Narrow Minded and Stretch are the best way to go. Over Extended isn't likely to actually yield that many more hits. It's kind of a back and forth thing, Over Extended could give you more hits, but you get less per hit. Stretch gives you less hits, but you have more per hit. It basically evens out, but Stretch doesn't interfere with Super Jump, so I go with stretch. 

 

Lastly, a quite general problem... I find it quite counter intuitive to take away two mod slots, but then add mods in which we then need more mod slots for to make viable builds for them. I've heard rumors about Augment slots, but I'm just wondering how many there's gonna be. If there's only one, we're going to need the ability to put it there or in our normal slots. If there's two, I suppose that'd be great. Four, we're gonna need some forma. 

 

Well anyway, that's MY review on Furious Javelin. 

If someone else has different builds, opinions, etc on it, please share. But for now? This mod is dead to me. It is definitely fun to use, the difficulty and feeling of accomplishment when you actually manage to get a bonus worth something is great. But statistically, I could be using the mod slots I wasted for it and Stretch to do other things, like increase speed, survivability, other powers, and general better making of the frame. This augment is quite trash. 

 

Next, I'll be doing Surging Dash! :D (No, not really. Never use it. EVER. It should've been "Your Melee combo is now also applied to Slash Dash with the penalty of consuming your Combo meter." You get a 2.5x bonus, Slash Dash into some enemies and Slash Dash becomes effective. Review of Surging Dash over.) 

Edited February 15, 2015 by (PS4)theelix

[Llyssa]

Wow. That's a really bad build.

 

Try using over-extend+stretch, no damage buffs(so the stuff survives to be hit more than once), fleeting expertise+streamline. continuity(or primed cont), furious javelin, and then 2 mods of your choice to make life easy/fun.

 

You'll get the damage boost to melee quite well that way, hitting many dozens of targets repeatedly, and be able to inflict serious bonus damage to heavy units that would survive RJ no matter how buff you make it.

[yles9056]

I found Furious Javelin very hard to use, too. Mainly because the buff duration is short even without fleeting expertise. Plus, the cast animation is so long. Why does Excalibur needs to pull out the energy Skana from the ground? And the damage buff doesn't help a lot and it cost 100 energy to get.

[(PSN)theelix]

Wow. That's a really bad build.

 

Try using over-extend+stretch, no damage buffs(so the stuff survives to be hit more than once), fleeting expertise+streamline. continuity(or primed cont), furious javelin, and then 2 mods of your choice to make life easy/fun.

 

You'll get the damage boost to melee quite well that way, hitting many dozens of targets repeatedly, and be able to inflict serious bonus damage to heavy units that would survive RJ no matter how buff you make it.

See but that doesn't work. Then, all you should really do is put on Fleeting expertise, Surging Dash and Blind Rage for the amount of a bonus you'll be getting. Furious Javelin needs duration AND power strength in order to have usefulness and having only 10-12 seconds of use isn't worth 100 energy. That build, then, is just a RJ spam build and you don't need to be using your melee for that, meaning you can get rid of Furious Javelin for something more useful, survivability or speed. 

Edit: I should probably add that it's effects do not stack in any way, shape or form. I'm pretty sure it's just overridden when you cast it again. 

Edited February 15, 2015 by (PS4)theelix

[GhostMelody]

If something is difficult after building whatever you built, then I would assume it just your build that you should probably change.

You want more time to do things? Add duration, if not, stop complaining....

Edited February 15, 2015 by GhostMelody

[(PSN)theelix]

If something is difficult after building whatever you built, then I would assume it just your build that you should probably change.

You want more time to do things? Add duration, if not, stop complaining....

If built it multiple different ways. 

I've done the math for all different types of variables. 

If I add any more duration, I either lose survivablity, power strength, which would make the mod generally less worth while, or range, which would make it generally useless. 

 

The build has been changed multiple times and this is the most optimal build for general improvement of all aspects of the mod, it has very well been built around it for synergy of Energy, health loss, duration, power strength, use of other powers, and the multitude of multipliers involved. The build HAS changed. MANY times. This is the ONLY  viable build without sacrificing too much in any direction. 

[GhostMelody]

List the mods you use

Also this complaining about using and "augment mod," probably won't get you anywhere because you have to understand: anytime you want to change up a build and use a different mod you WILL have to sacrifice something, especially for an augmented mod in their current state

Edited February 15, 2015 by GhostMelody

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Excalibur, um Hayden, uses a Glaive to maximize Melee damage and range in short time.

Old Radial Blind was easy Glaive/Kestrel bombing and Furious Javelin is the same.

I suppose you could use Redeemer....or since we are on PS4 we can wait and see if Primed Reach makes Furios Javelin more applicable to most melee weapons.

Sort-of like: Overshields boosting Paralysis damage or Kohm(Shotgun Spazz & Frail Momentum) being my "Get that Nullifier or Nyx Absorb bubble - out of here"

Edited February 15, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[(PSN)theelix]

List the mods you use

Also this complaining about using and "augment mod," probably won't get you anywhere because you have to understand: anytime you want to change up a build and use a different mod you WILL have to sacrifice something, especially for an augmented mod in their current state

The build is up there. 

And I understand that already. I tried to make a build that would make it useful enough that it can be considered of worth. It can't be. I've already sacrified speed, health, shields, power efficiency, and so forth. I tried pure Power Strength, pure duration, pure range, and a mix of the three in different proportions. 

 

You must not have read, because this was an entire review of how the mod could be made useful and has been made useful. At it's most useful, I've gotten 178% melee bonus damage, which, translated to the PC values, would be 350% melee damage for twenty four seconds. There is nothing better that will also allow you to survive, because you will also need to channel to Life Strike your health back as you're losing it. There are problems with the melee system that are unaccountable for and their variable accuracy. 

 

Excalibur, um Hayden, uses a Glaive to maximize Melee damage and range in short time.

Old Radial Blind was easy Glaive/Kestrel bombing and Furious Javelin is the same.

I suppose you could use Redeemer....or since we are on PS4 we can wait and see if Primed Reach makes Furios Javelin more applicable to most melee weapons.

Sort-of like: Overshields boosting Paralysis damage or Kohm(Shotgun Spazz & Frail Momentum) being my "Get that Nullifier or Nyx Absorb bubble - out of here"

I've tried to use it with the Glaive, but you need constant DPS to allow you your survivability. You'll also need to do damage to all the enemies around you, throwing your melee away from you would be detrimental to this. 

[GhostMelody]

It's actually pretty funny when you use it

And I actually think Mr.Nishi's solution is a good one, try waiting for that mod and test it out.

[GhostMelody]

Tbh you don't need reflex guard or narrow minded

If you want to maximize the ability's potential; maybe you can keep NM

But if you gunna blind them in the first place why do you need reflex guard instead of a more important mod?

Also you don't NEED to kill ALL enemies affected by this before it wares off

You just being greed imo; want less. Lower your expectation and you will be less disappointed

Edited February 15, 2015 by GhostMelody

[(PSN)theelix]

Tbh you don't need reflex guard or narrow minded

If you want to maximize the ability's potential; maybe you can keep NM

But if you gunna blind them in the first place why do you need reflex guard instead of a more important mod?

Also you don't NEED to kill ALL enemies affected by this before it wares off

You just being greed imo; want less. Lower your expectation and you will be less disappointed

You need reflex guard for the people outside of your radius. It blocks all frontal and some side damage during the casting of animations, reviving, and other actions. It allows you to gain energy, with rage and QT, without losing health.

 

You need narrow minded for the mod to last more than twelve seconds -- if you want a quick nuke for things around you, you'd be better off not using Furious Javelin and just maximizing damage on Radial Javelin.

 

I'm not trying to maximize the ability's potential, I'm trying to maximize the melee's potential, which is what the augment is for. It's supposed to help you scale into longer missions by giving your melee a damage boost to allow you to kill the enemies who are around you, who weren't killed by RJ, with your melee. I'm not expecting more from the mod than a decent damage bonus that lasts long enough to work within the frames parameters; being that it's a slow frame, having only twelve seconds to move around isn't enough. 

 

Edit: And I already know the mods effects and that current build. He set it up to stack and hit multiple enemies but the mods effects do not stack and the distance in which those enemies are from you is greater than the time you have to get to all of them. You now have only nine seconds to get to all the enemies you hit within a 60 meter radius. That'd be great if you were Ash, that's horrible if you're anyone else. 

Edited February 15, 2015 by (PS4)theelix

[GhostMelody]

Try getting a primed continuity maybe brah

And still if you had continuity you wouldn't have to worry about those outside of your range

You are kinda at fault for not havin the range since you put that narrow minded on

Also you probably don't want to see this but imma put this here anyway: Stop trying to max the melee's potential then, it clearly is not worth it. Also don't bother putting up something about melee's isn't good or needs a buff, there will be no sympathy on that guns should remain to be more effective than a melee weapon as in most games, range usually will be more effective.

Edited February 15, 2015 by GhostMelody

[(PSN)theelix]

Try getting a primed continuity maybe brah

And still if you had continuity you wouldn't have to worry about those outside of your range

You are kinda at fault for not havin the range since you put that narrow minded on

Also you probably don't want to see this but imma put this here anyway: Stop trying to max the melee's potential then, it clearly is not worth it. Also don't bother putting up something about melee's isn't good or needs a buff, there will be no sympathy on that guns should remain to be more effective than a melee weapon as in most games, range usually will be more effective.

Then you literally just explained to me that the mod is useless and that this thread did exactly what it was made to do; inform people that this mod is not worth the effort to make it useful. 

Again: Continuity will do nothing but counter the duration penalty from Fleeting Expertise on Mr Nishi's build, which would reduce what is 24 seconds on my build and 350% melee bonus damage hitting 35 enemies in 20 meters, distance close enough to get to them, to 9 seconds and assuming you hit 60 enemies in your 60 meters of range, 300% damage. 

Using Primed continuity on my build would only expand it to 19 seconds and 35 meters and, assuming I hit 45 enemies, around 450% damage, but not enough time to get to all enemies. 

[GhostMelody]

You are pushing negative affects on your self just maximize the potential of something that is already being maximized to an extent just by having that mod

Don't complain because of your wanting to buff one thing lead you to handicapping yourself in another manner

You can't have too many positives; and I mean that literally when looking at that build

Learn balance, it's they key.... *words from a wise old monk* XD

But seriously you soon too much brah, and imma say the same thing to anyone using a similar build and run into similar problems; y'all doin too much

Getting a boost in duration and range are definitely enough, you don't need to handicap yourself with an ability range deficit. You gotta deal with the balance. Think about your build as a scale when you add too much to one side the benefits will increase heavily on one side but decrease heavily on the other.

So you can add a little to each side and have them at a nice balance, or completely screw it

Edited February 15, 2015 by GhostMelody

[Llyssa]

See but that doesn't work. Then, all you should really do is put on Fleeting expertise, Surging Dash and Blind Rage for the amount of a bonus you'll be getting. Furious Javelin needs duration AND power strength in order to have usefulness and having only 10-12 seconds of use isn't worth 100 energy. That build, then, is just a RJ spam build and you don't need to be using your melee for that, meaning you can get rid of Furious Javelin for something more useful, survivability or speed. 

Edit: I should probably add that it's effects do not stack in any way, shape or form. I'm pretty sure it's just overridden when you cast it again. 

Okay, you're missing the point: You complain that "it costs too much energy" and you keep babbling "Blind Rage"

 

If you find skills too expensive that way, STOP USING BLIND RAGE.

[NoirTree]

It's need not only melee damage buff from that mod.

[(PSN)theelix]

Okay, you're missing the point: You complain that "it costs too much energy" and you keep babbling "Blind Rage"

 

If you find skills too expensive that way, STOP USING BLIND RAGE.

Ok. 

Then use Transient Fortitude, right? The duration you lose makes it pointless to use the mod and you'd have to use intensify with it to get the same damage buff. 

I didn't say it cost too much, I said it's not worth the energy it costs. 

Sir, I am not missing the point. 

[RealPandemonium]

Putting a damage buff on a 4spam ability wasn't a smart move, for obvious reasons.  In the best case it's a bandaid for the infinite content crowd but in regular gameplay the gains are not readily available and certainly don't warrant a mod slot, IMO.

[SolarDwagon]

Wow, Warframe community has turned into a bunch of idiots. The amount of not reading OP is amazing.

[Burnthesteak87]

I agree with you, Furious Javelin is terrible. It's an  hard to manage, bad balanced augment.

Even if it sounds powerful if correctly modded, you have 2 options:
1) To make a build focused on it, it must be a gamebreaker combo, elseway 2) the effort isn't worth the (scarce) results.
In this situation Imho its the #2 case.

PS: In your build Flow, Reflex Guard and Quick Thinking are bad mods. I'd suggest Handspring to avoid wasting your buff in knockdown state.
Also for a Radial Javelin build you don't have Natural Talent.
Narrow Minded and Blind Rage are too much counter-productive.

Regarding Surging Dash, it not that bad, it does pretty the same thing but it's more self reliant, it doesn't depend on other mods and consider also you can build around negative power duration to reduce Slash Dash lenght on your preference.  
You can use it on an enemy mob and you'll get an high melee counter boosting your melee damage. Note that the Melee Combo Counter can be refreshed in the right conditions without spending Energy like Furious Javelin build would need.
On Cleaving Whirlwind Galatine builds it's not bad at all.


TL DR: Furious Javelin sounds good on paper, ingame it's trash.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[Thaumatos]

Wow, Warframe community has turned into a bunch of idiots. The amount of not reading OP is amazing.

OP makes a post about how something should be useful but isn't.

Community responds, "then don't use it nub/brah! Btw ur build sux"

Yep, I'm on the Warframe forums. The only thing missing from the first few responses is their 4Chan tags.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Thaumatos

[(PSN)MrNishi]

The build is up there.

And I understand that already. I tried to make a build that would make it useful enough that it can be considered of worth. It can't be. I've already sacrified speed, health, shields, power efficiency, and so forth. I tried pure Power Strength, pure duration, pure range, and a mix of the three in different proportions.

You must not have read, because this was an entire review of how the mod could be made useful and has been made useful. At it's most useful, I've gotten 178% melee bonus damage, which, translated to the PC values, would be 350% melee damage for twenty four seconds. There is nothing better that will also allow you to survive, because you will also need to channel to Life Strike your health back as you're losing it. There are problems with the melee system that are unaccountable for and their variable accuracy.

I've tried to use it with the Glaive, but you need constant DPS to allow you your survivability. You'll also need to do damage to all the enemies around you, throwing your melee away from you would be detrimental to this.

Constant DPS? Are you going Glaive-thrown melee only?

Glaive/Kestrel bombing allows you to throw while still shooting primary or secondary...that is your sustained DPS.

Otherwise you tailor "Ability Range" around Redeemer....OR use Ain-down-sight on Primary/Secondary to have further Range with Redeemer:

Aiming with either a primary or secondary weapon while performing the charge attack will cause all the pellets to hit where ever the dot on the reticule is and will give the weapon infinite range, allowing it to be used at incredibly long ranges. This effect is best used in tandem with sniper rifles to allow for accurate ranged shots. (Likely a bug.)

Sounds like Primed Reach (when it sones to PS4) may assist in hitting more enemies in the short period of time....or more useful on Infested/Radial Disarmed units. (T3/T4 still being special cases for Nullifier and Bombard combo)

From your first post though, you are not open to any changes in your build as "Your Build is the most optimal"... so this mod does not work for your build.

Edited February 18, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[(PSN)theelix]

-snip-

You're not DPS the enemies to kill them, you're DPSing with Life Strike to keep yourself from dying. You're going to be shot from everyone over 20m. Quick Thinking will stop lethal damage well for a while, and Reflex guard allows for the infinite energy and to stop lethal damage more effectively. 

 

I'd be more open to suggestions if people would understand my build more correctly, but I'm completely garbage at explaining it correctly, so I'm not going to be open to suggestions unless someone actually understands it and does some math to back it. So far I've just seen people tell me I'm wrong and give no math as to how their build would effectively work, what synergy it has, and if they've actually tried it.

 

I mean, someone suggested an RJ spam build but from what I've seen, that would destroy the synergy. The Damage bonus as far as the UI is telling me is just overriden with whatever comes next. So you cast it once and hit 20 people and get 200% damage on my build and then, assuming you have enough energy to cast consecutively, kill the next 15 you end up with 150% damage. 

Edited February 18, 2015 by (PS4)theelix

[Llyssa]

I didn't say [the cost more than I am willing to pay], I said [the cost is more than I am willing to pay].

Madam, you are missing the point.