Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[(PSN)geb9696]

 

Disagree with OP and with the completion(ists).  

 

1. Legendary mods were introduced as a fusion core sink. To max these 10/10 it takes 528 cores. I prefer ranking mine up to 8/10 as it only takes 132 cores. It takes 264 cores to rank these mods to 9/10. Also, one doesnt need to farm to max these mods, its called buying a maxed legendary mod from someone else with plat. Dont got plat? trade or buy from DE. I must hand it to DE, a clever way of making people sink away their cores for that tiny benefit.

 

2. Ducats? Not really a problem, if you can farm 100 ducats a day. And if you dont want to farm them, convert plat to ducats on the trade channel. Easy. Also one doesnt need to buy those ducat prisma weapons. Instead you can buy it off other people for plat. Problem solved.

 

Even with plat you will still need to grind because of the 1 million credit tax.  Add in that the op is saying even the hardcore lifers are not able to rank these things up every two weeks and you are left with no one to buy it from.  I would consider this to be a problem. 

[Davoodoo]

 

Disagree with OP and with the completion(ists).  

 

1. Legendary mods were introduced as a fusion core sink. To max these 10/10 it takes 528 cores. I prefer ranking mine up to 8/10 as it only takes 132 cores. It takes 264 cores to rank these mods to 9/10. Also, one doesnt need to farm to max these mods, its called buying a maxed legendary mod from someone else with plat. Dont got plat? trade or buy from DE. I must hand it to DE, a clever way of making people sink away their cores for that tiny benefit.

 

2. Ducats? Not really a problem, if you can farm 100 ducats a day. And if you dont want to farm them, convert plat to ducats on the trade channel. Easy. Also one doesnt need to buy those ducat prisma weapons. Instead you can buy it off other people for plat. Problem solved.

 

So your answer is

 

be a whale and throw 50$ at something that took less than a day to create(probably less than 1hour).

 

While i can somewhat appreciate some creative design on skins its insane to ask ppl to pay more than 5$ for that and thats objectively more work being done than creating stronger version of already existing mod.

 

 

Atm void trader looks like this to me.

1. Sells power

2. Incentivizes booster purchase

3. Creates a sink and incentivizes core pack purchases

4. Ties player to game by utilizing his fear of missing limited time offer.

5. Incentivizes plat trading by again utilizing customer fear of missing limited time offer.

 

I proposed how to make void trader more customer friendly, grind more bearable and our piles of ducats less worthless.

Add a legendary core to void trader and all of the problems are solved.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Davoodoo

[aynn]

1 million creds is not difficult to get, cred booster then farm dark sectors or t3/4 captures/ext

 

If the OP says he plays 10-16 hrs a day, he could easily earn 200p/day (15-20p/hr)  x 14 days = 2800 plat and buy those maxed legendary mods every 2 weeks. Doable. He simply just isnt efficent with this hours.

Edited February 18, 2015 by aynn

[Husla]

Such worrying posts, a person trying to help others in this game being shunned by these people who don't even care about other tennos. Disappointed about how we lack a community that doesn't strive to encourage more game play and new users.

[Renegade343]

Such worrying posts, a person trying to help others in this game being shunned by these people who don't even care about other tennos. Disappointed about how we lack a community that doesn't strive to encourage more game play and new users.

I am pretty sure new players would not be caring about Primed mods at all. 

[BradKing]

Many great points in this thread already, good OP too.

 

 

This stuff makes me not introduce new players to Warframe, while I, as a founder, as a 1000hr+ veteran, as a 18 month+ veteran, as a pretty nice guy who often taxi's and helps newer players, should be an ambassador for the game. 

 

The hardest part for me is that it's getting very hard to defend that Warframe isn't p2w: many people here even suggest getting plat to get past part of this grind wall, which is easier for veterans without paying, but not that easy between these new market constructions introduced by DE.

 

I'm happy to buy the non mods through trade, with plat I either traded or bought, but the 1m credit tax means it's really hard to trade for those, even if you only try to max/fuse up one out of every four released (which is about what I do).

 

I know the fusion core drop nerf is partly to blame here, DE choose to not nerf the fusion with it, meaning something that was already beyond a farm wall is becoming even more of a grind. Now that most hard core players are really burning through their key collection, this will only get worse. Even for those of us that can still get 25k rep per syndicate every day quite easily, all be it costing a lot more time. While I'm by no means a no life player, I hope to play about 2-3 hours a day, I can't even keep up the farm between everything released while I already have (and often got rid of) everything that has been released.. I don't mind farming, I don't even mind a bit of grind, but I'm used to at least having a decent carrot for it, this is not the case in Warframe right now. I would hate to see the economy crash in game, it kind of already has for a sizeable part of the community.

[Davoodoo]

I am pretty sure new players would not be caring about Primed mods at all. 

Im pretty sure that anyone who sees that they actually give more than regular mods starts to want them.

[Renegade343]

Im pretty sure that anyone who sees that they actually give more than regular mods starts to want them.

In which they would also realise that they would need to also have to get Void Keys, meaning that they would also need to upgrade themselves first before getting the Primed Mods. 

 

Then, whether or not that goal is superseded by anything else is up to them (but generally, the goal of a new player in Warframe is to get some credits, some resources, a few new weapons and maybe a new Warframe before going off for Void and possibly Primed Mods). 

[Onisa]

For giggles I decided to look up how many mods could be primed. The wiki says there's about 470 mods in Warframe, and 26 are R10s. So lets knock that down to 400 to count all the event/ special mod that won't be primed (probably). Let's cut that 400 in half to get rid of the R3 mods, since so far it's only been R5s being primed. 200 candidates for priming roughly. If no more R5 mods are released in the mean time that's at minimum another 100 visits from Baro before we can see Primed continuity again.

[Davoodoo]

In which they would also realise that they would need to also have to get Void Keys, meaning that they would also need to upgrade themselves first before getting the Primed Mods. 

 

Then, whether or not that goal is superseded by anything else is up to them (but generally, the goal of a new player in Warframe is to get some credits, some resources, a few new weapons and maybe a new Warframe before going off for Void and possibly Primed Mods). 

All while they feel cheated since they miss opportunity to get time limited offer which offers more powerful stuff, which may never happen again.

Either they will get it now or will forever be stuck with crappy version of good stuff.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Davoodoo

[ndantony]

I am a R19 founder and 'No real life' gamer who spends around 10-16 hours per day on Warframe, farming resources, credits, ducats and just about everything. I not only farm the game heavily for resources for myself, but i help many new players get a good start from the rather depressing and deep bottom.

...

I gave you +1 out of compassion, forfeiting your real-life that ways. I myself can only play an hour or less a day after work, life and other family priorities.

For the rest it's TLDR. I can understand your frustration and I feel no less... but this aspect, in my opinion, is still in development. We haven't seen the whole picture yet. Right now I'm just collecting these R10 mods and occasionally spend some plats for maxed ones, most needed. Otherwise, I'm just patiently holding back and see what's coming next in-store (developments).

[ragingdeamon]

All while they feel cheated since they miss opportunity to get time limited offer which offers more powerful stuff, which may never happen again.

Either they will get it now or will forever be stuck with crappy version of good stuff.

 

sorry, let me get this straight. new players should feel bad because they missed all the past events and weapons? and they should also feel entitled to more powerful verisons of mods that they probably don't even have? they are also new players, they aren't that attached to the game yet.

[Glitchesarecool]

He plays the game for 10-16 hours per day. I am pretty sure that: 

 

A: He can actually achieve his goal (after all, there are other Fusion Cores to use as well [and the fact that he does not use the Common Fusion Cores would mean that his stated facts may be a bit overblown]) of maxing out Primed mods (after all, you can buy them, but not have to max them out instantly). 

B: He can achieve his goal of getting the required Ducats needed (for instance, T2 Mobile Defence offers quite a few 50 Ducat Prime parts, and Endless Missions would net quite a few Ducats as well, not to mention that Sabotage Keys have two shots at the Prime drop table too). 

 

 

A: A common core at rank 3, the highest you can get a common core, has 11.8 fusion energy. A R5 core has 62. That's not tenable; even common cores don't drop at a high enough rate to make up the difference.

 

B: But can he get the ducats each week? So far every item has been exclusive to his visit. The average payout for a non-endless mission is only ~20 per run (http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2v5rwi/ducats_average_payouts_and_grinding_a_justified/), which means to fully buy these exclusive items that don't come around again, you'd need to grind over 70 missions while scoring ducats at an above average rate. 

 

 

1 million creds is not difficult to get, cred booster then farm dark sectors or t3/4 captures/ext

 

If the OP says he plays 10-16 hrs a day, he could easily earn 200p/day (15-20p/hr)  x 14 days = 2800 plat and buy those maxed legendary mods every 2 weeks. Doable. He simply just isnt efficent with this hours.

 

What even is this? Where are you pulling these platinum numbers? They don't just magically appear in your account.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Glitchesarecool

[Husla]

I am pretty sure new players would not be caring about Primed mods at all. 

You should stop emphasizing on the primed mods. You probably saw "Primed Mods" in this thread then decided, everything else was irrelevant. New players should be able to see these exclusive items and get them if they think they might need it for the future. Why have a game with items so steep to achieve by all players?

[Davoodoo]

sorry, let me get this straight. new players should feel bad because they missed all the past events and weapons? and they should also feel entitled to more powerful verisons of mods that they probably don't even have? they are also new players, they aren't that attached to the game yet.

Past events?? no, current events, yeah i would be pretty mad that i cant enjoy something and im gonna miss something for reasons beyond me, especially that things that i miss are actually useful in long run.

[ndantony]

For giggles I decided to look up how many mods could be primed. The wiki says there's about 470 mods in Warframe, and 26 are R10s. So lets knock that down to 400 to count all the event/ special mod that won't be primed (probably). Let's cut that 400 in half to get rid of the R3 mods, since so far it's only been R5s being primed. 200 candidates for priming roughly. If no more R5 mods are released in the mean time that's at minimum another 100 visits from Baro before we can see Primed continuity again.

I don't think that's the only option. DE can always make Baro Ki'Teer comes with a load bag of more mods, with regularly few new mods and along with a lot of other rotating mods.

[ragingdeamon]

Past events?? no, current events, yeah i would be pretty mad that i cant enjoy something and im gonna miss something for reasons beyond me, especially that things that i miss are actually useful in long run.

 

what tells you that the devs will calibrate the power of mobs with primed mods? as the hardcore gamer has just said, they are impossible to max out in a reasonable amount of time. 

[Renegade343]

A: A common core at rank 3, the highest you can get a common core, has 11.8 fusion energy. A R5 core has 62. That's not tenable; even common cores don't drop at a high enough rate to make up the difference.

But you also get those Fusion Cores quite frequently as well (even more for the Infested, in terms of Common and Uncommon Fusion Cores), so there is a spot to gain Fusion Cores to level up your mods other than Rare 5. 

 

B: But can he get the ducats each week? So far every item has been exclusive to his visit. The average payout for a non-endless mission is only ~20 per run (http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2v5rwi/ducats_average_payouts_and_grinding_a_justified/), which means to fully buy these exclusive items that don't come around again, you'd need to grind over 70 missions while scoring ducats at an above average rate. 

Given he admits that he plays 10-16 hours per day already, gaining 1,100 Ducats should already be easy for him, since the Void Trader arrives twelve days later, just after he has left, meaning on average, he would need to gain a minimum of 91.67 Ducats per day (which can be done with a few Void Endless Missions up to Wave 30 or 30 Minutes). Coupled with the fact that his stock is unlimited, and that he stays on a Relay for two days, that means the original poster could also use these two days to get a few more Ducats, meaning that if he were to use these days as well, he would need to gain a minimum of 78.57 Ducats per day. 

 

So, that would mean he could spread the acquisition of Prime parts to Ducats time out, and that problem becomes less significant. 

 

You should stop emphasizing on the primed mods. You probably saw "Primed Mods" in this thread then decided, everything else was irrelevant. New players should be able to see these exclusive items and get them if they think they might need it for the future. Why have a game with items so steep to achieve by all players?

They can get them once they have the relevant resources already, with some Void Missions rewarding multiple Prime parts per mission, and some Void Missions rewarding a bit more of the rare Prime parts in terms of their drop table. 

 

And high tier items tend to have a steep cost for all players. To pull out one of my favourite comparisons, Runescape's Godswords. Has a very steep price (needing to form a powerful team to get all the shards for the Godsword Blade [by killing very high level enemies], kill the boss to have a chance at a Godsword hilt, and needing a very high level to both equip it and make it. Or, one could just buy it, and depending on the Godsword, the price can range from 1mil to 11mil). 

 

So, a new player probably would not be going for the Godsword for a very long time, at least when said new player is trying to get the next best and cheapest thing to a Bronze Sword. 

[ndantony]

Past events?? no, current events, yeah i would be pretty mad that i cant enjoy something and im gonna miss something for reasons beyond me, especially that things that i miss are actually useful in long run.

Doubtful that new players, with just few weeks or a month in, would even care... but who are we to judge. I remember when I was first playing WF, I've missed all the freaking events. Not until 4 or 5 months in that I was finally learn to power up some of my first common mods. (I used a different acct back then). And these primed mods are catering more for hardcore players. I also don't see them being exclusive in anyway except coming from Baro Ki'Teer's visit. And the amount of offering appears still being subject to change.

[Kasarian]

1 million creds is not difficult to get, cred booster then farm dark sectors or t3/4 captures/ext

 

If the OP says he plays 10-16 hrs a day, he could easily earn 200p/day (15-20p/hr)  x 14 days = 2800 plat and buy those maxed legendary mods every 2 weeks. Doable. He simply just isnt efficent with this hours.

 

You are re***ded aren't you? Not only you forget that those plats you say come from other people meaning trading has to take place (meaning even more time has to be sinked to post offers on chaotic channel) and getting legendary cores isn't all that easy. It's like going to a warzone and hoping to be able buy bread just like that... when there's rampaging famine... Also there is limit to keys you can have and at some point you have to farm these to make so many runs a day. Another reason you are being ridiculous is that more simple and logical would to just get a job to buy those plats.

 

Other than that i see a lot of people missing the point, it's not only OP that is affected by this but this deals with ALL OF US, as in Warframe players, you guys are really ok with economy just limping by because "i don't need that"  "buy plats, it will solve the problem" or "grind more"?

Instead of counter arguments that solve/change nothing, think of proposing something that will change the situation for better for everyone, if you don't have any proposition why not just not write anything and move on? It's pointless to throw rocks at one another instead of discussing the problem and solutions. Though i am guilty as charged with this hypocrisy, I apologize.

 

 

Now getting back to subject, OP suggested cutting both cost of getting Traders stuff as well increasing core drop rates and cutting ranking costs in credits. Someone suggested adding Legendary cores. I agree with those because they are easy to implement (just tweeking some values) and wouldn't be limited to just few players but everyone would have a fair chance at getting everything and be happy (even with plats). Any other suggestions?

 

 

EDIT: Also reminder about Trader, he was supposed to be place where you could get something with all those prime parts you had lying around not another grindfest it is turning into...

Edited February 18, 2015 by Kasarian

[Noteybook]

To all the people saying primed mods are "long term" goals, look at Syndicates and how that went lol. When I think of a long term goal, I think of getting to Rank 6 in a Killing Floor class. There is a feeling of progression and the rewards are awesome. Maybe DE should look at KF, because right now for a lot of players this is a "play when content drops then play something else" game, or a good inbeween game, and that's not a great spot to be in.

[Glitchesarecool]

-snip-

 

Good for OP, now what about everyone else who doesn't play this as frequently as he does?

 

This discussion keeps getting derailed and it's sad. Maybe OP could get there playing constantly, but how about any other player who doesn't dedicate their afternoons or evenings? The point OP is trying to make is that this system is impossible, even for someone who constantly plays this game, which means there's a terrible barrier for everyone. Even you! 

[(PSN)Bowjangelz]

I already posted that I agree with the OP. But I have spent some time thinking and have tried to come up with some proposed fixes. Trying to think them through:

 

 

 

- While ducat prices are high, they are achievable (if RNG isn’t too awful to you). I would not propose a change to the prices. A nice addition could be for forma bp’s to be able to be sold for 5 ducats since the rotation c changes have made us build up far too many to ever use. Would help us to not feel so punched in the face when getting 3-4 forma in a row in t4.  

 

- Cut credit prices for fusing and trading. Even if these were cut in half or cut by 25%, there would still be a ton of credit farming to complete all that is in the game and still plenty of push for players to buy those credit boosters. This would be an easy way for the developers to reduce grind without making anything too easy. Players would rejoice.

 

- An earlier poster explained why halving core fusion cost would make common mods too easy. I thought about a change from 200% increase for each level to 150%, but the math becomes too uneven and it cut the fusion cost too severely. I am still working this out to find a suggestion that isn’t too easy.

 

So, instead of making a fusion core energy reduction for fusing, maybe follow some other the other posters’ suggestions on making fusion cores more attainable. Even if cores were a bit easier to get, the number needed to get all of the useful mods to just rank 8 would still take a VERY long time. Put the drop rate in T4 survival back and take out the o cells since so few who play it can find any use for them. Or, maybe put in a syndicate offering of R5 core packs for standing. Or continue alerts for packs of cores, maybe every two weeks after dev streams. Many ways to do this.

 

 

 

Overall, the main point of most of the posts on this thread comes back to the question of if even a hard core player should be able to complete everything in the game. I am not sure how DE feels about this. But for me and for many, I think we just hope that DE will trust that their game play will keep us playing without imposing an impossibly high grind wall to keep us going. Most of us will still never achieve our goal of having and maxing everything, but I do think that the level of work it takes to do so should be at least achievable by a no-lifer. I understand the game is still being developed and none of us is sure how it will be in the end, but some balance to the grind aspect sooner rather than later would be the best QoL gift we could get. 

[Renegade343]

Good for OP, now what about everyone else who doesn't play this as frequently as he does?

Then I also raise the question: 

 

Is maxing out Primed Mods really that necessary to the point that it needs an almost instant snap of the fingers to rank up? 

 

The reason I ask this is due to the fact that during the time before Primed mods, every player would still be using the original version of the mods, and the game was still playable (barring a few things in the way), and that they are still rather strong in their own rights. That would mean Primed Mods are not strictly necessary for playing the game itself, and levelling it up could be done as a side project. 

 

In short, just treat it like a bank account accumulating interest from your principal amount. Sooner or later, you will max out the Primed Mods (or Mods, if you decide to split your resources). 

 

This discussion keeps getting derailed and it's sad. Maybe OP could get there playing constantly, but how about any other player who doesn't dedicate their afternoons or evenings? The point OP is trying to make is that this system is impossible, even for someone who constantly plays this game, which means there's a terrible barrier for everyone. Even you! 

Do not even start to assume that I am troubled by this, or that you know me well. 

 

For one, I am never troubled by this matter, because I play this game to just ease myself a bit, go and do the things I want to do in that game, and also go off and calculate various measurements in the game itself (if all of my mathematical threads are of any indication). So, to be brief, that barrier is non-existent for me. 

[BlutAdler]

Question: why do you need to rank every R10 mod and buy every item the void trader offers?

 

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