Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[Davoodoo]

Had they released them all at once, the immediate response of the playerbase would've been mountains of complaining - sticker shock.  Exactly the same as we have now.  Spreading them out over time like this gives players a reason to stop by once in a while and check things out, keep coming back.  Since the sticker shock would be the same either way, why not?

 

 

And you can trade unwanted prime parts for unique rewards.  That's not at all in question.  What's in question is whether obtaining *all* the unique rewards that could be acquired this way is a reasonable expectation or not.  This is not an automatic "Yes, it's reasonable", and I'm yet to hear any justification for this expectation.  I don't expect to be able to get perfect rolls on so much as a single legendary in Diablo, much less all of them - it's possible to get a perfect roll, but completely unreasonable to expect it.   Something being theoretically possible does not make it a reasonable expectation, there, or here.

 

Which is why we're see so many "You don't actually need them".   Not being able to actually obtain them all is only an issue if you expect that you should be able to obtain them all, and that's never been given a very good rationale.

It would, all i said is that i could maybe believe such explanation, it sounds outrageous nevertheless.

 

Its not about acquiring them, acquisition itself is ok, some farm and even rarely playing players can achieve that, the problem starts when you actually want to put what you just acquired to work, for same effects as stuff they already had they need to put 3 times as much materials and credits then having actually some real benefit take way more.

Its not simple all of them are unreasonable grind, each one of them is unreasonable grind and combined they wont be any better.

 

Actually getting legendary with perfect rolls is reasonable and even expected, getting ancient legendary is bit grindier but still reasonable enough, d3 at least tries to make your job easier with "smart loot" system, ability to reroll 1stat and more reliable sources of legendaries and its shows, ppl on seasonal characters which start from nothing and were created at best last week already have full sets(pretty rare stuff) and are on bright road to get perfect gear in near future.

 

Ask anyone at diablo if they need full set of ancient legendaries with perfect stats and they will all say that while its not required for t6 it is highly desired for any attempt at higher greater rifts.

Single r5 core as drop from mobs got around same chance as legendary on t6 from regular mobs, with bosses only occassionally not dropping a legendary.

and remember that each drop is a chance for upgrade instead of pushing your progress by 1/700.

 

Expecting to obtain everything is not an issue, its reality which was present for past 2 years and only recently with these new additions you want to tell ppl that obtaining everything isnt what they should do despite them having literally nothing else to do.

[ZxpferTH]

 

snip

 

U gotta get used to it man i already is

 

there so many type of forum warrior here

 

stupid u don't need argument too they should keep it to themself 

 

even when S#&$ty orokin cell not exist in t4s still take alot of time to max one they won't see it they never see it anyway since they will only rank primed mod to 7 8 9 and okay with it since those thing are not supposed to do it in a week lul ( or month ) ( maybe year at current rate HAHA )

 

even i can keep up with all primed mod to max them all but i still complain because future of this game really concern me right now ( the only way to do this right now that mean legendary core i has some in case like this so yeah... )

Edited February 17, 2015 by VioletX

[SgtFlex]

Question: why do you need to rank every R10 mod and buy every item the void trader offers?

Keep 'em playin', keep 'em payin' ... nothing new here.

 

To be fair though, you don't HAVE to get everything to enjoy this game, and you don't HAVE to max everything. If you choose to do so, there is either a significant time or fiscal investment involved.

 

This is honestly just good business for them. Lots of companies cater to people's OCD about owning/collecting/upgrading ... 

I always hear people say this, and I completely understand the point. However, the game itself has done some horrible things involving exclusive mods--making them better than base mods (which is what primed mods do), instead of making you sacrifice in order to use that certain Boost. For example, I believe Primed Heated charge at max rank should give 40% heat damage maxed, but can he stacked with its non-primed counterpart to give an extra heat damage boost, at the expense of using a mod slot which you could be using for something else.

With that being said, the game itself has given advantages to completionists like myself, giving us higher Mastery Ranks which entitles us to more weapons, exclusive access to certain relays in the near future, event mods, and now primed mods.

IMO it all needs to stop. The completionist thing is leaving so many players behind because they cant dedicate themselves to the game anymore.

Im sick and tired of Dealing with the void trader. I wish he never existed at this point. I know it sounds foolish, and I dont have to bother with him anymore, but Warframe is so centered around the word completionist I cant bear with it anymore

[Phatose]

It would, all i said is that i could maybe believe such explanation, it sounds outrageous nevertheless.

 

Its not about acquiring them, acquisition itself is ok, some farm and even rarely playing players can achieve that, the problem starts when you actually want to put what you just acquired to work, for same effects as stuff they already had they need to put 3 times as much materials and credits then having actually some real benefit take way more.

Its not simple all of them are unreasonable grind, each one of them is unreasonable grind and combined they wont be any better.

 

Actually getting legendary with perfect rolls is reasonable and even expected, getting ancient legendary is bit grindier but still reasonable enough, d3 at least tries to make your job easier with "smart loot" system, ability to reroll 1stat and more reliable sources of legendaries and its shows, ppl on seasonal characters which start from nothing and were created at best last week already have full sets(pretty rare stuff) and are on bright road to get perfect gear in near future.

 

Ask anyone at diablo if they need full set of ancient legendaries with perfect stats and they will all say that while its not required for t6 it is highly desired for any attempt at higher greater rifts.

Single r5 core as drop from mobs got around same chance as legendary on t6 from regular mobs, with bosses only occassionally not dropping a legendary.

and remember that each drop is a chance for upgrade instead of pushing your progress by 1/700.

 

Expecting to obtain everything is not an issue, its reality which was present for past 2 years and only recently with these new additions you want to tell ppl that obtaining everything isnt what they should do despite them having literally nothing else to do.

 

No, they'll say good rolls are required, not perfect rolls.  An actual perfect roll requires perfect stats on all the subrolls, and that just doesn't happen.

 

And yeah, after months of hearing players say "We need more stuff cause I have nothing to do", I'm short on concern for players who suddenly find they have too much to do.  Well, now we don't have to worry about running out of stuff to do anymore, and after months of that.....not actually a problem at all.

[Glitchesarecool]

A trickle of progress is not "something to do." 

[CapedBaldy]

Just stop time gating Baro's wares. Make him always sell stuff from his old rotation or something. One of my friend missed Primed Fast Hands and he almost uses Vectis exclusively, and now he's very pissed. Fusion Core issue is somewhat daunting, but you can always work on it if you have the mods.

 

Not so much if you can't get Baro's wares.

[OnimaruX]

Question: why do you need to rank every R10 mod and buy every item the void trader offers?

Yes...kinda some of those mods that where release are required for maximization in builds for example primed continuity and point blank. I feel bad for those that missed getting primed point blank as it was the necessary buff shotguns needed, and I wish DE would stop that, giving buffs through hard to get mods is not the solution.

 

I swear if DE releases a primed serration mod I will lose my S#&$!!!!

[Kizlev]

Im sick and tired of Dealing with the void trader. I wish he never existed at this point. I know it sounds foolish, and I dont have to bother with him anymore, but Warframe is so centered around the word completionist I cant bear with it anymore

This^^^^

Sucks that Baro (DE) has all dedicated Tenno by their ninja nads. Dude sells mostly good stuff you can't get anywhere else. I call bollocks on that.

Since DE apparently loves their new Ferengi-ish NPC so much (splashed all over the launcher like a big tounge-in-cheek middle finger to the endgame players), the trader should instead serve as an ALTERNATIVE to acquiring those items, similar to paying plat for things instead of building them the traditional (free) way. Ducats should be the acquisition method for those with lots of spare prime parts to get the ducat gear, but couldn't get them through RNG after many void or planetary mission runs.

tl;dr All void trader items should be in the existing drop tables, and ducats used as an alternative way to getting them quickly (like plat for everything else).

[Davoodoo]

No, they'll say good rolls are required, not perfect rolls.  An actual perfect roll requires perfect stats on all the subrolls, and that just doesn't happen.

 

And yeah, after months of hearing players say "We need more stuff cause I have nothing to do", I'm short on concern for players who suddenly find they have too much to do.  Well, now we don't have to worry about running out of stuff to do anymore, and after months of that.....not actually a problem at all.

Actually only relatively new thing to do after nearly 3 years now is archwing, which really again goes same way as on foot farming.

 

Me and many other ppl want something new to do, not more stuff, but if more stuff is only thing we get we gonna do that while still wanting something new, but if we get an excuse to not do new content for next year due to us having "long term" grind then you cant be surprised why ppl are angry.

 

Its no wonder that ppl are angry and complain, to me wonder is why ppl dont complain when customer money is put before customer enjoyment.

 

This^^^^

Sucks that Baro (DE) has all dedicated Tenno by their ninja nads. Dude sells mostly good stuff you can't get anywhere else. I call bollocks on that.

Since DE apparently loves their new Ferengi-ish NPC so much (splashed all over the launcher like a big tounge-in-cheek middle finger to the endgame players), the trader should instead serve as an ALTERNATIVE to acquiring those items, similar to paying plat for things instead of building them the traditional (free) way. Ducats should be the acquisition method for those with lots of spare prime parts to get the ducat gear, but couldn't get them through RNG after many void or planetary mission runs.

tl;dr All void trader items should be in the existing drop tables, and ducats used as an alternative way to getting them quickly (like plat for everything else).

You know what was community idea behind void trader??

 

Exchange of unwanted prime parts for wanted prime parts.

 

DE twisted this idea and we are left with that abomination with limited time powercreep.

Actually its not 1st idea that de twisted, there is also trading, damaged mods and melee 2.0.

 

Proposing to add this stuff to drop tables seems like a really bad idea since it gives devs impression that we prefer to farm those, so they will stop/delay adding new stuff to trader and instead they are gonna make a mess at drop tables and its not like these primed mods and reskin weapons are any hard to create.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Adder9]

I think DE underestimates the number of casual players out there, those like me who play an hour or less per day, laugh at the cost of prime access, and wouldn't buy play without a heavy discount because there's nothing tangible for the money.

 

Grind factor from my perspecitve: I don't own a mod above R8, a single primed mod, or one prime frame or weapon. I play with normal gear to have fun, and do my best to do just that, thus staying away from neptune/pluto/ceres mostly because of the buff frame requirement (oddly, I also can't build a force spector...)

 

Grind encourages people to buy instead of play to get things. I think that's the mentality behind introducing so much of it. In my opinion that is slightly toxic to a game that could be more rewarding based on lore, concept, and exploration of the giant tilesets the devs have painstakingly created. Players tend to ignore the art in favor of speed-at-all-costs. Really a shame.

 

I'm not an economist, but I've noticed that there are two mongolian restaurants where I live. One charges 12.50 for a meal, the other charges 7.99 for an all you can eat of the same thing. The latter employs double the people and is always expanding.

[rockscl]

Question: why do you need to rank every R10 mod and buy every item the void trader offers?

completionism is a syndrome in this game, tightly related to MR system, and to be actually possible to have everything because of the inexistence of class exclusive items, that,between some other things of course

[Neogeo]

To all the you-don't-need-to people. You guys realize you're trying to tell people playing Pokémon that you don't need to catch them all. Min-maxing everything is THE only reason most people keep playing warframe. Technically, warframe was complete after you make a rhino and boltor prime. There's no reason keep on playing the same mission and killing the same enemy over and over again. The whole game is build on gotta catch them all theology.

[MaverickZero]

Tomorrow's Update:

 

New Additions:

Nemesis Nyx Skin is now available: get this Dark Sector inspired skin by performing 1,000,000 stealth finishers! stealth finishers only count after successful mission completion with no alarms triggered!

 

Enjoy your ~0.01% progress everyday for the next 3 years or more.

[MDRLOz]

Tomorrow's Update:

 

New Additions:

Nemesis Nyx Skin is now available: get this Dark Sector inspired skin by performing 1,000,000 stealth finishers! stealth finishers only count after successful mission completion with no alarms triggered!

 

Enjoy your ~0.01% progress everyday for the next 3 years or more.

Umm  Not to be crazy but I would actually prefer that over void trader.

 

I can at least work slowly toward that in my time.

 

Unlike ducats which is GRIND GRIND GRIND only 3 more days till he is here again with stuff that might not ever come back.

(DE said on live stream it will rotate but never said when or how it will rotate. As with other live-stream promises it is merely a promise that might never be fulfilled).

[Kasarian]

For example, I believe Primed Heated charge at max rank should give 40% heat damage maxed, but can he stacked with its non-primed counterpart to give an extra heat damage boost, at the expense of using a mod slot which you could be using for something else.

 

Or you could, like, I don't know... add maybe Scorch? I am pretty sure that with the rest of the prime mods it make them pretty much useless don't you think?

 

 

Getting back to the subject, OP is right and anyone who says "you don't need them maxed":

 

 

Maxing mods so that you can maximize FULL potential of given Warframe or Weapon is what this game is all about. Don't give me c**p that you enjoy playing a mercury mission for example with underleveled frame/mk-1 braton/lex/cronus the same as doing high level planet with gear you worked hard on getting (prime set of weapons and/or prime warframe) because I wont believe that. If maxed mods wouldn't matter we wouldn't have either potatoes or polarity slots.

 

Yes, we all can agree that this game is about grinding, but the amount of grind is really ridiculous if SELF-PROCLAIMED Warframe No-Life says he can't keep up. And those numbers? They scare me and make me reconsider if playing to get at least that one single loadout of my favorite frame/weapons maxed out is really worth the time...

Edited February 18, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII
Language

[PepsilonEagle]

As a relatively new player I really appreciate this thread, OP.  Fully maxing out just basic, essential mods like serration and hornet strike already feels like an unattainably lofty goal in the current state of the game, unless maybe I want to do nothing but 10 minute survivals on pluto for the next 6 months, and then there's corrupted, and archwing, and companion mods to think about.  It's really discouraging and if I didn't have weapons to level up and planet nodes still left to unlock I probably wouldn't still be playing at all.

And with ducats, I already personally don't go to the void very often as it stands. What prime parts I have are not ones that I want to give up for ducats, so I've had to pass up literally everything the void trader has had to offer so far, including the things that I would, in fact, actually really want to use beyond just having them.  When, exactly, can we even expect to see things like a Gorgon with actually decent stats made available again? The tight window, high price, and unknowable time until return really does nothing except punish new players.

[LisRestall]

A lot more people are completionist in this game than people realise I think, yes I know it isn't the most valid argument but it is a decent point.

 

Long term goals are not supposed to be like this ~ how is progressing by 0.1% to your goal a satisfactory result of your play time?

 

Literally only took two posts before the point went completely over someone's head.

 

Disappointing.

 

The idea is that someone needs to be able to do it. It can't be impossible for everyone to do something. A player who plays 16 hours a day should be able to keep up easily, a player who plays half that should be able to barely keep up, a player who plays half that should still be able to keep up, but to a lesser degree.

 

Having it such that the player who plays 16 hours a day can't keep up is ridiculous. What's even the point of a system if the absolute top can't even participate in it?

 

Completionists are a thing. We'll always be a thing. Saying we're not allowed to be completionists because you aren't a completionist is like saying that you're not allowed to be weaker than us because we're not as weak as you. That second thing is elitism, and it's rude. That first thing is some kind of freakish anti-elitism, and it's even more rude.

 

 

The issue: How a self-proclaimed and genuine no-life player who puts the equivalent effort of a full-time job into Warframe cannot keep up with the insane amount of grind involved in recent updates, namely Primed Mods and the Ducat system.

 

What you're all discussing: OP doesn't need to do all this, you're not supposed to be able to do all this, stop being a completionist, etc.

 

We have a man here who devotes his life to Warframe, puts in a weeks' worth of effort in a day, and who admits that the amount of grind is too much for him. Instead of stopping and realizing the grindy path that Warframe is headed in, what are you guys doing? Bagging on the OP for spending so much time in Warframe.

 

It is because he spends so much time in Warframe trying to grind out these mods that makes this issue so pressing. If OP, in all his arguably wasted dedication and effort cannot keep up with the grind that is being introduced in the game, what does that mean for the rest of us? This isn't even something that pumping copious amounts of real-world money can solve, because the market is being drained of all its fusion cores and credits as people try to max out these mods.

 

Realistically, these mods are supposed to take months to max, each. Months of having your credit and fusion core reserves drained for the sake of a single mod. Mods that are introduced every few weeks, each one providing several more months of grind.

 

Stop it with the class-war and look at the big picture; is this what you all want? You're okay with having this much senseless grind in the game simply because you're not supposed to get it done right away? The arguments against completionists are just as weak as the arguments for completionists.

 

Grind isnt the only answer, its laziest one.

 

Hey OP, don't you dare lose heart to the naysayers. You laid out exactly what needed to be said for the sake of the entire community. In any online game like Warframe that is in perpetual Beta development mode, you will ALWAYS encounter members of the playerbase that will vehemently defend the flawed development decisions that suits their personal gameplay goals and desires. Change is tough for most people to swallow, but nothing improves without it. Ignore the opposition; they missed the entire point of this: The current model of the Warframe F2P grind system is unsustainable.

 

To all the you-don't-need-to people. You guys realize you're trying to tell people playing Pokémon that you don't need to catch them all. Min-maxing everything is THE only reason most people keep playing warframe. Technically, warframe was complete after you make a rhino and boltor prime. There's no reason keep on playing the same mission and killing the same enemy over and over again. The whole game is build on gotta catch them all theology.

 

You guys are heroes. I meant no sarcasm at all. English isn't my first spoken language so I'm bad at expressing what I want to say but you guys eloquently said what's on my mind.

[(PSN)geb9696]

How many credits does it cost when trading primed mods? 

[SgtFlex]

How many credits does it cost when trading primed mods? 

1 million

[(PSN)geb9696]

So it isnt even really possible to pay with plat to get these without grinding for credits.  Seems like a broken system to me.

[(PSN)GreenSoup2HoT]

I play on ps4, ive just stocked up 2000 ducats and have 3 million credits. I know after 2 appearances of the void trader im not going to have any ducats or credits by the looks of the prices im seeing on PC.     -__-

i really hope they cut how many cores it takes to upgrade these primed mods / [rank 10 mods in general]
i really hope they cut how much credits it takes to fuse these mods to upgrade primed mods / [rank 10 mods in general]
i really hope they cut the ducat costs of everything in the void trader 

I do what to have one of everything in the game... If everything "OP" said dosent gets DE's attention and changed. I dunno what ill do. I probably wont be able to buy everything..let alone rank it up. 

What "OP" has stated makes me want to quit the game, but i love Warframe, its a great game and i cant just leave. I farm my heart out until im a pile of energy drink can's and Sweet Chili Heat Doritos's. At this point, it dosent matter how many Energy Drink can's i drink or Sweet Chili Heat Doritos's i eat. The core's..ducat's..credit's...grind, has won.. I'll soon meet my defeat. 

 

 

Hopefully DE really see's the issue and does something about it before its too late. 

Edited February 18, 2015 by (PS4)GreenSoup2HoT

[aynn]

Disagree with OP and with the completion(ists).  

 

1. Legendary mods were introduced as a fusion core sink. To max these 10/10 it takes 528 cores. I prefer ranking mine up to 8/10 as it only takes 132 cores. It takes 264 cores to rank these mods to 9/10. Also, one doesnt need to farm to max these mods, its called buying a maxed legendary mod from someone else with plat. Dont got plat? trade or buy from DE. I must hand it to DE, a clever way of making people sink away their cores for that tiny benefit.

 

2. Ducats? Not really a problem, if you can farm 100 ducats a day. And if you dont want to farm them, convert plat to ducats on the trade channel. Easy. Also one doesnt need to buy those ducat prisma weapons. Instead you can buy it off other people for plat. Problem solved.

Edited February 18, 2015 by aynn

[ragingdeamon]

to OP: please state in your post that you don't need to have all the mods and weapons, but you want to, and that to achieve that you would need around 2-3 years of grinding in the current state of primed mods. cause otherwise this thread will be a cycle of "you don't need to-> that's not the problem -> new guy shows up: you don't need to".

[Awazx]

(...) 'No real life' gamer who spends around 10-16 hours per day on Warframe (...) i have been playing like a zombie, at great sacrifice to my life, both in time and financially. I just love Warframe that much.

 

 

You need medical attention.

[Renegade343]

In the given time, you can't, and this is the point of this post. 

He plays the game for 10-16 hours per day. I am pretty sure that: 

 

A: He can actually achieve his goal (after all, there are other Fusion Cores to use as well [and the fact that he does not use the Common Fusion Cores would mean that his stated facts may be a bit overblown]) of maxing out Primed mods (after all, you can buy them, but not have to max them out instantly). 

B: He can achieve his goal of getting the required Ducats needed (for instance, T2 Mobile Defence offers quite a few 50 Ducat Prime parts, and Endless Missions would net quite a few Ducats as well, not to mention that Sabotage Keys have two shots at the Prime drop table too). 

C: He needs medical attention right now, because spending up to two-thirds of his time in playing Warframe every day is already worrying due to the fact that it is not healthy at all.