De Doesn't Want To Nerf.

[Rorgal_Sina]

It's true that the Boltor Prime recieved the stats probably just for cash grab. I mean, Rhino Prime (Rhino was super popular) + an OP weapon? They'll make tons of moneh from Prime Access!!!

 

Alright, erm mindless talking aside, it's true that DE can't just nerf something without people getting angry (unless if it's not a popular weapon).

 

So I'm waiting on DE to buff the weapons that need em. And DE is SLOW on that. Took Braton Prime a looong time. Snipers are still waiting. Shotguns too. Grinlok still outdamaged by Marelok. Plasma weapons still waiting. Alert swords still waiting. Scythes too. Machetes too. Flux Rifle and Spectra too. Don't forget Embolist! Oh no Ignis! Ballisticas need moar. Daggers too. Dual Daggers too. Half the stances need more combos. Half the combos aren't practical in execution.

 

I would really like a single major update dedicated to all this. It's true that this is powercreep, but if done right, the end result would be simply "more numbers", but the same gameplay but with a lot more weapons players are willing to use.

 

Should I explain why these weapons need buffs? Well erm here's a few.

 

Ignis: 100 Burst DPS isn't worth crap. Either make this weapon easier to obtain and make a better version, OR BUFF THIS BEAUTIFLE THING. NOT EVEN INNATE FIRE PROC.

 

Plasma Weapons: Includes Tetra, Dera, Supra, and Cestras (All variants). These are sexy weapons (imo). There's no point in plasma technology if you don't give them more damage or utility. No way Corpus will invest into this if you don't provide incentives. MR7 for Supra??? Pffft. (Note: Tetra is fairly easy to get and is good for starters. I'll let that slide.)

 

Alert Swords (And more Long Swords): Oh why just why??? Why do these things even exist??? They feel like copy-pasted weapons with "slightly" different stats. There's no point? And why alert weapons? What's so special about each one of these? Because I'm sure there's a reason for: Heat Sword, Dark Sword, Ether Sword, Jaw Sword, Pangolin Sword, Plasma Sword...

 

Shotguns: I'd be extremely &!$$ed off if the "Primed" buff was the "buff". A two day offer that we don't know when it'll come back? Something that only veterens can invest to? Wow. Such buff. Most shotguns don't outdamage rifles. They should be the most rewarding (and full of risks), but now they're just full of risks and not even half as rewarding as most rifles. Please, just do something. Please.

 

Continuous Fire Weapons: And I'm only talking about specifically two this time. Flux Rifle and Spetra. I hate it when people tell me Synoid Gammacore is enough of a buff. Seriously? One freaking weapon that invalidates every other continuous fire weapon? Yeah whatever. NO WEAPON SHOULD EVER BE CALLED MASTER FODDER. MASTER FODDER IS THE SIGN OF FLAW WITHIN BALANCE AND PROGRESSION.

 

Ballisticas: Gammacores buff = HUGE. Ballisticas buff = WWWHHHYYY WOULD U DO THIS TO US!!!

 

Scythes: Hey DE. Give me ONE reason why to use a scythe over other melee weapon types. I DARE YOU TO SAY THEY'RE OKAY.

 

Machetes: Hey DE. I'm sure these things currently have a place ingame right?

 

Grinlok (i cri everytime): Here's a plan. You release two weapons. One primary and one secondary. You make both viable. More people will buy. WIN.       Nonononono, seriously, why dafuq would you make the secondary 3x stronger than the primary???? No logic in design. No logic in balance/progression. No logic in PROFIT. Don't you dare call that "Augment" mod a buff. You're relying on the inconsistencies of trade chat or giving up your favorite syndicates for this thing? And even then the Marelok is still better...

 

Daggers: These things are just... there. Some of these are good with Pointed Wind, but they're decent at most. Why use these over more popular weapon classes?

 

Dual Daggers: I still don't know if there's any point in these over dual swords yet.

 

 

And these aren't all. This must be the 129,432,853,665,185,462th thread for this same topic. DE, you either give us good versions of the weapons above, OR BUFF THEM.

 

The reason why I'm sooo against power progression is this: Think of Warframe as an RPG game. You're given 2 classes. Sword and Axe. You can go up to lvl 999 Swords. But you can only go up to lvl 333 Axes. So what's the point?This isn't "progression", it's a disgrace to balance.

 

Warframe's current situation is a disgrace to balance until we have the "lvl 999 Axes". And those Axes include everything I said above.

 

Edit:

 

OMGKFLAHSDKJGA

I committed sin. HOW CAN I FORGET THE GORGONS.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Rorgal_Sina

[Snyphurr]

Yes!

 

You forgot to mention the Gorgons...

Still,yes!

Edited February 21, 2015 by Snyphurr

[SoulDust]

Flame on!

[StevesEvilTwin]

Actually, Ignis with 100% fire proc would be one of the most overpowered weapons in the game. Remember that fire procs make enemies run in circles and stop shooting. The Ignis would be the CC king of weapons.

[FuzzyRamen]

From my point of view they need to introduce more Warframes/Weapons that can go hand in hand with current meta of "must be used and viable end game" so we have less limitations and more combinations. People want nerf just because its too strong does not add on to the options player have but limit us to use only the handful of what is available. 

[Snyphurr]

From my point of view they need to introduce more Warframes/Weapons that can go hand in hand with current meta of "must be used and viable end game" so we have less limitations and more combinations. People want nerf just because its too strong does not add on to the options player have but limit us to use only the handful of what is available. 

 

It's because difficulty does not means giving us weak weapons and strong enemies.

[FuzzyRamen]

It's because difficulty does not means giving us weak weapons and strong enemies.

If they start buffing all the weak warframes and weapons we won't be talking about this issue now.

[Stormandreas]

Lots of people have asked for updates consisting of just bug fixes, buffs, balances etc. But DE says NOPE! You're getting useless weapons instead.

[Snyphurr]

If they start buffing all the weak warframes and weapons we won't be talking about this issue now.

Simple,right?

[Nesit1]

Lots of people have asked for updates consisting of just bug fixes, buffs, balances etc. But DE says NOPE! You're getting useless weapons instead.

There is no weapon useless, if you really know how to enjoy that game.

[akira_him]

most plasma guns are actually good on paper

but the projectile speed is too slow that even the mod that increase projectile speed doesn't help much

[geninrising]

+1 full support OP. Buff or rebalance the whole dmn weapons list=easy to balance enemies.

 

It's fairly simple to do a tiny bit of math and figure out what to do and then just DO IT. All this time of people burning up the forums over a simple thing that could increase quality of life game wide. Start tweaking numbers until every group of weapons is equal across the board for end game use(equal representation of end game quality goods, allow players choice in playstyle regarding their weapons).

[-Nevala-]

I think, in addition to the buffs to these weapon classes listed above, "Mastery" needs to be reorganized a little bit. Of course, one of the issues is the fact that entire classes of weapons are almost totally useless or obsolete, whereas in other cases there are merely individual weapons in a category that aren't good enough.

 

While for the sake of some sense of progression, obviously, not all weapons can be equalized in terms of strength or overall effectiveness, I think that weapons that are stronger or weaker should at least be properly represented in Mastery hierarchy. For example, the Soma(prime) requires MR6 to use. Granted what we all know about this weapon, in my eyes, it seems pretty fair. But at the same time, you're capable of acquiring the Boltor Prime as soon as you're capable of using the trading post, which just doesn't make sense by comparison. 

 

Additionally, if we look at things in terms of Mastery requirements -- which SHOULD be an indication of how far you have to "get" to use certain things (and generally, those with higher requirements being MORE rewarding) -- it just makes no sense that a weapon like the Supra is MR7. By then, you already have a Soma. Which is better in... literally every way.

 

If we gave some proper consistency to weapons vs. MR requirements, we might end up with a better sense of arsenal progression, and for lower MR players, actual purpose to acquiring certain lines of weaponry rather than just finding that one weapon that makes all future unlocks pointless or just more mastery fodder, if they even have any more incentive to rank up at that point. And we could at least tell which weapons were "meant" to be weak/low level.

[shut]

Actually, Ignis with 100% fire proc would be one of the most overpowered weapons in the game. Remember that fire procs make enemies run in circles and stop shooting. The Ignis would be the CC king of weapons.

 

The Ignis wasn't overpowered by any means back in Damage 1.0, where you could combine 100% fire procs with 100% ice procs for consistent stunlocking. It won't be overpowered if we give it an innate fire proc now.

[Similon]

Alert Swords (And more Long Swords): Oh why just why??? Why do these things even exist??? They feel like copy-pasted weapons with "slightly" different stats. There's no point? And why alert weapons? What's so special about each one of these? Because I'm sure there's a reason for: Heat Sword, Dark Sword, Ether Sword, Jaw Sword, Pangolin Sword, Plasma Sword...

I remember, long ago, when these held a sort of prestige feel. Since alerts didn't come round very often, and half the players hadn't even heard of the weapons.

Now, they're rather common and outclassed. People won't say "Oh that's a cool lookin' sword", they'll say "why aren't you using Boltor Prime in all 3 slots?"

 

I still use my Pangolin Sword fairly frequently. I love it.

[-Hallow-]

This topic is amazing. I'm still in shock of the marelok's stupor. The damage on that thing with the multishot mods is TOO MUCH. it out damages even snipers with their slow fire rate and high accuracy. yes, the marelok gets slightly inaccurate the farther you are and how fast you fire it but WHEN DO YOU GUYS USE ANYTHING LONG RANGE?

[Rakshal]

1+

 

I want my Grinlok to be buffed so bad. It is my baby (it also makes no sense why a shorter version of the same firearm is much better than the longer version).

[plznohurtme]

It would be awfully nice for weapons balance to be looked at along with fixing the broken use mechanics being hardcoded to right click... we need another button thanks.  I wouldn't hold my breath though despite the fact that having options is part of what makes this game fresh when playing the same missions over and over.  They claim this is the year of quality, and yet balance (which in my estimation is the most important part of quality) doesn't even appear to be on their radar nor something they really care about.

 

Side note: they gave pvp a dedicated team which is having to carefully balance specifically for pvp and from all previews looks like they're doing a good job.  If a few people can manage a whole entire game system I'd imagine that having 1-3 people working on just weapon balance (I understand why frames are purely Scott's purview) would be feasible and not take all that long to get weapons closer in balance.

[Law1091]

Agree,and i would add Castanas to the buff

[Lost_Cartographer]

I too would rather see the junk buffed than having DE stare at the flavor of the month weaponry and determining how to nerf it.  People are always going to gravitate towards "da strongest" and abuse the hell out of it.  The trick is not to create something so blatantly overpowered, but numbers, fore-sight, promptness and DE simply don't mix.  If the person in charge of the numbers has to play test extensively before finally changing them, they can stop testing extensively now - this person simply fails at the process.  But a digress - nerfing the OP things makes everything else only so much more desirable.  Something that was undesirable before isn't going to fare much better now however.

 

Right now, I'd kill for shotgun primaries to be more than decoration on my Tenno's back.

Edited February 22, 2015 by Littleman88

[Snyphurr]

I too would rather see the junk buffed than having DE stare at the flavor of the month weaponry and determining how to nerf it.  People are always going to gravitate towards "da strongest" and abuse the hell out of it.  The trick is not to create something so blatantly overpowered, but numbers, fore-sight, promptness and DE simply don't mix.  If the person in charge of the numbers has to play test extensively before finally changing them, they can stop testing extensively now - this person simply fails at the process.

 

Right now, I'd kill for shotgun primaries to be more than decoration on my Tenno's back.

 

There's no need to test what people want for so long.

 

I hope this thread isn't ignored like a hundred more with the same subject.

[AlphaHorseman]

+1 full support OP. Buff or rebalance the whole dmn weapons list=easy to balance enemies.

 

It's fairly simple to do a tiny bit of math and figure out what to do and then just DO IT. All this time of people burning up the forums over a simple thing that could increase quality of life game wide. Start tweaking numbers until every group of weapons is equal across the board for end game use(equal representation of end game quality goods, allow players choice in playstyle regarding their weapons).

Here here! I would've thought that this was the plan outright, but apparently they're just adding more things to their plate with the new weapons they continue to give us. The more weapons they add on, the harder it is for them to balance once they get around to it.

[plznohurtme]

Here here! I would've thought that this was the plan outright, but apparently they're just adding more things to their plate with the new weapons they continue to give us. The more weapons they add on, the harder it is for them to balance once they get around to it.

 

Evidence has been that they don't even bother trying to balance anything other than new items.  The only weapon that has been around for a while I can think of in the last several months that saw any sort of buff was the Braton Prime and Vandal.  Otherwise the adjustments have all been to new/recent weapons.  They don't appear to even really be considering these things... it's like when Scott said they'd be giving a look at the Silva & Aegis... but not until the new sword/board comes out... which still isn't out and I'm pretty sure he mentioned it last year.

 

Balancing isn't hard, but when you don't seem to do it period these are the results.

[AlphaHorseman]

Evidence has been that they don't even bother trying to balance anything other than new items.  The only weapon that has been around for a while I can think of in the last several months that saw any sort of buff was the Braton Prime and Vandal.  Otherwise the adjustments have all been to new/recent weapons.  They don't appear to even really be considering these things... it's like when Scott said they'd be giving a look at the Silva & Aegis... but not until the new sword/board comes out... which still isn't out and I'm pretty sure he mentioned it last year.

 

Balancing isn't hard, but when you don't seem to do it period these are the results.

I would have hoped that each type of weapon was balanced with its counterparts (i.e. snipers of the same tier are balanced with snipers of the same tier), and that also weapon types would be relatively balanced with each other (snipers are comparable to automatic weapons in their speed at which to complete tasks, functionality, and benefits/detriments), and that melee as well became prevalent within the game through it's fleshing out of mechanics to make it more so appealing. With DE's continued growth of content, I would hope this would be a top priority between the weapon types. I would hope that this would bring about many much needed buffs to weapons that haven't had love for a while.

[RealPandemonium]

Let's keep buffing everything until it's impossible to lose.  Then they'll buff everything so that it's impossible to win unless you use the best weapons and spam 4.  We're already halfway there, might as well bring the fun to a close.