Warframe Weapon Statistics

[J-Pax]

*cough*  Paris?

 Got it, and plugged in. It's been in the making a while so a few releases have been missed. Should be up-to-date now.

[J-Pax]

Actually Fang is better for that because it attacks multiple times.

 Yeah but it only hits one target. Fangs are piercing damage so work well against armoured grineer, and Zoren's are slashing damage which means they do well against infested. See the workings? Fang vs solitary marines, Zoren's vs hordes of infested.

[Slifar]

Hehe, bear in mind that I haven't got the crit chances/multipliers nailed. I know that the Zoren's have a high crit chance/multiplier so that'll definitely skew it up the chart as opposed to other weapons. Once the transparency patch is applied it'll all be 100% perfectly represented.

 

That is a good point. Actually, it wouldn't suprise me if they did, since they dont have the innate armor ignore the Fangs do, and their charge attack is worse. Though, I think it'll still be pretty close, because even when the Zoren crits it only does as much damage as the Fangs do in one swing cycle, so all of the deference is going to come from the attack speed.

 

Speaking of, I was slightly confused by your damage numbers for the Fang's charge attack, so I just went and tested it out: The Fang does hit twice with each charge attack, and I was getting 65's with bodyshots on Corpus Crewmen for both hits (My Fangs have no charge mods whatsoever and no elemental mods yet, I've been pouring it all into speed and raw damage, which doesnt affect CHARGE damage, with some crit stuff)

[Altale]

Do you know this for fact or have you read it somewhere? If it's not posted by a DE then I'm not likely to trust it. I'll plug that in anyway because it seems more likely than not, but yeah. The wiki is not to be trusted imo.

 

 

Edit: Well it certainly put it up a few spots....like 8.....

It was from pre-U7, and AFAIK, it hasn't been changed since it got buffed.

 

Also, Snipetron's crit chance is 20% (0.2) and there's no Bronco.

[J-Pax]

It was from pre-U7, and AFAIK, it hasn't been changed since it got buffed.

 

Also, Snipetron's crit chance is 20% (0.2) and there's no Bronco.

 

There is a bronco :p It's the shotgun pistol. It's just in the shotgun section when it originally had a "Number of Pellets" field, until I realised for average damage it would have no relevance what-so-doodle-ever. I was tired and my mind was going "MUST DO COMPLICATED AND UNNECESSARY MATHS. NOW."

Edited May 7, 2013 by J-Pax

[J-Pax]

Other than some stuff like that it's a pretty interesting read. Made me pull out my Aklatos again, and promptly wonder why I EVER used anything else, aside from my Lex when I was sniping.

 

 

Sorry to tell you, but I came across the fact that they nerfed the fire rate on aklato's. Sad face. It does bump it down a few places but it's still a very solid leader.

[J-Pax]

Speaking of, I was slightly confused by your damage numbers for the Fang's charge attack, so I just went and tested it out: The Fang does hit twice with each charge attack, and I was getting 65's with bodyshots on Corpus Crewmen for both hits (My Fangs have no charge mods whatsoever and no elemental mods yet, I've been pouring it all into speed and raw damage, which doesnt affect CHARGE damage, with some crit stuff)

 

Gotcha, thanks for the input - updated damage now.

 

Edit: Just to be clear, you did mean 2 x 65's right, and not that both hits hit for a total of 65?

Edited May 7, 2013 by J-Pax

[Slifar]

Gotcha, thanks for the input - updated damage now.

 

Edit: Just to be clear, you did mean 2 x 65's right, and not that both hits hit for a total of 65?

 

Correct! It has two seperate hits each at a value of 65, for a total of 130 damage!

 

I'm fairly certain that it's actually caused by each dagger having it's own damage hitbox, which also makes it possible to only hit with one at a time if your aim is off, but that's just a random bit of info lol

[J-Pax]

Correct! It has two seperate hits each at a value of 65, for a total of 130 damage!

 

I'm fairly certain that it's actually caused by each dagger having it's own damage hitbox, which also makes it possible to only hit with one at a time if your aim is off, but that's just a random bit of info lol

 

Hmm, regardless this is about determining most effective weapons, and the data is geared towards point blank 100% accuracy I guess. I'll stick it in as 130.

[J-Pax]

Gah, it's proving really hard to measure jump attack damage. I get odd random values, which I'm assuming is the jump AoE damage and the actual physical contact damage popping up, but it's becoming hard to measure because all the mobs with 0 resistances are dying off of it (at least the common ones I've been using to test).

[Darzk]

I believe patch 7.8 bumped the base crit for most full auto weapons to 5% from 2.5%. Not tested, however. 90% sure the Braton is 5% crit. Might as well wait for U8 rather than test it out tho :)

 

FYI:

Been doing some testing, seems Jump and Slide attacks ARE affected by Pressure Point, Execute by Killing Blow:

 

Fragor with no mods:

 

100 Slide Attack

200 Execute

80 Jump Attack (from standing on same level)

 

With Pressure Point 5 (+42%):

142 Slide Attack

200 Execute

113 Jump Attack

 

With Killing Blow (+150%):

100 Slide Attack

500 Execute

80 Jump Attack

 

With both Killing Blow and Pressure Point:

142 Slide Attack

500 Execute

113 Jump Attack

 

Jump Attack can headshot for +50% damage on fallen enemies, and Slide attack can headshot for 2x damage if you jump at the right height.

 

Believe Scindo has the same values, unsure about Gram. Slide and Jump attack are mitigated by armor and receive the slashing bonus to lesser infested.

 

The jump attack damage listed above is for landing very close to an enemy, not directly on top. Directly on top seems to be +50% damage.

 

I'm assuming you've incorporated swing time into your charged dps as the numbers seems realistic as opposed to theoretical. Have you by any chance created a formula for charge dps, or is it all empirical?

 

For example, I would assume the time/swing calculation would be composed of animation time + charge time, with each being reduced by Fury and Reflex Coil respectively.

 

Also, what is 'Card Buffed Weapons'? Which mods did you use to buff these weapons? All of them???

Would it be possible for this field to be completed in DPS instead of DPM, as I don't care about sustained DPS outside of boss fights?

 

When you eventually add enemy resistances, how to implement the value of armor ignore - simply 3x NORMAL ONLY damage to armored targets. In other words the elements arent increased.

[J-Pax]

Well all the melee values are empirical values. I've used a sampling method whereby I take a measure of time and fit as many swings as possible into it, usually 20 seconds. Given the value and DE's penchant for round numbers on their melee, and the probable human error on my part, I take that value, calculate the swings per second and round it to the nearest realistic number, like 2.47 would 2.5 and so on. Of course this means that if I'm wrong then the DPS is wrong, but U8 will hopefully tell.

 

Anyway the formula for the charge is simply charge damage/charge speed - please note that charge speed is the rate at which it charges as opposed to the number of charges a second, unlike regular melee dps which is damage*number of swings per second.

 

 

When I get around to devising enemy resistance tables it'll simply be an additional multiplier added into each elemental field, that's all. This is because enemies have varied resistances, like grineer have a 2/3's resistance to bullet damage, but take some multiplier more from armour piercing damage (daggers). So because in my formulae I've separated the elements in my calculation, and not just added them all together and used that as a multiplier, I only need add in an extra multiplication into each element to calculate it's value. It won't be too hard, it'll just be very very long and time consuming.

 

 

The trouble with doing the jump attack samples is that I'm running Mercury - Terminus for ease. Grineer Sawmen have no resistances so it's easy to record numbers off of them, except when there are more than one number and the first damage inflicted kills them outright - AKA  staff executes, dual wield executes, and almost every jump attack has a two part damage. I'll have to find some grineer heavies to attack, as shields also have no resitances except a weakness to freeze damage.

 

 

Also just to be clear - did you mean to say that in a charge swing of a weapon, the charging up is reduced by a Reflex Coil mod , but the actual swing itself after the charge is reduced by a Fury mod? That would seem to be a very ham handed way to work the mod system. If that is what you meant have you got a source or evidence for it?

 

 

 

As for "Card Buffed" I did a naughty thing and applied every card I had statistics for to each weapon, to see how their performances are when their stats are fully maxed out, despite the fact they can never reach that point. Later on I'll build a table with card weightings for each weapon - including interactions with other cards. That way a stat budget can be allotted and each rank of card can be calculated by worth.

Edited May 7, 2013 by J-Pax

[Darzk]

Oh, so the Charge DPS is in fact not the DPS you would see ingame, but a theoretical number. Because Charge DPS is also effected by the weapon sheath/unsheath animation (reduced by Fury).

 

I doubt even in update 8 they're going to make this particular formula transparent, as they'd have to provide us with sheath/unsheath times for each weapon, which seems unlikely.

 

Also just to be clear - did you mean to say that in a charge swing of a weapon, the charging up is reduced by a Reflex Coil mod , but the actual swing itself after the charge is reduced by a Fury mod? That would seem to be a very ham handed way to work the mod system. If that is what you meant have you got a source or evidence for it?

 

That's exactly what I meant, and how it works. Fury effects the sheath and swing speed; all reflex coil does is affect the charge speed.

 

Reflex coil also doesnt automatically release the charge sooner. If you place a Reflex Coil mod on a weapon and hold the melee key, the charged attack will release AT THE EXACT SAME TIME as if you didnt have the mod. All reflex coil allows you to do is release the attack key EARLY and still get the charge attack, instead of digressing to a regular attack (if you didnt have the mod).

 

Might only work for heavy weapons like this however; its certainly more noticeable on them if thats not the case.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Darzk

[J-Pax]

I see well it should be fairly accurate, I have a tempered "Melee Charge" finger that's trained itself to release on minimum charge for most of the weapons I've used, and they by and large all follow a template number rather than them all having unique values, so the DPM should be accurate enough.

 

 

In regards to the sheath/unsheath interacting with the DPS/DPM values I tend to look at it the same way as I do for the Gorgon spool up time. It's not going to affect long term DPS, only sporadic dps - and with melee, if I'm charging an attack it'll take place before I encounter an enemy face to face anyway, thus screwing with the DPS values anyway. It'll suit for a guideline value of which weapons currently do what they do the best. Having said that, if I ever do manage to get a hold of the information then I will most definitely implement that ASAP.

 

Edit: From gameplay - are you certain about the interaction of fury and the reflex coil mods? For one thing charged attacks do automatically release a lot sooner than if they didn't have the mod.

Edited May 7, 2013 by J-Pax

[SymphNo9]

Nice spreadsheet J-Pax! I'll sure be using it for references of the more hidden stats such as crit chance for the stats calc.

 

I just done some testing on Lvl1 grineer medium armor mobs. Head shot on them is 100% normal damage.

With unmoded weapons:

Lex 70 damage, *

Gorgon 26 dmg, *

Latron 44 dmg, *

Aklato 24 dmg,

Braton Mk-1 17 dmg. *

 

Weapons with * have different base damage than in your spreadsheet.

 

 

I'm pretty sure you had rifle amp on, because all the listed rifle damages contradict with my own testing and also what the stats calc shows.

[Judgebanks]

Actually Fang is better for that because it attacks multiple times.

Fire rate is the only thing that matters for flying.

[ThePresident777]

Because I'd rather have DPS values in the case of short term fighting, for example I use my Twin Vipers as such: Small burst on one target, then another, then another, then another, killed them all, reload. Reloading doesn't factor into that, so a short term DPS value is useful in those cases where reload doesn't count into it. DPM is for the sustained damage calculation on, say, bosses or other high HP targets.

 

What you term DPS is not DPS at all.  It's Damage Per Magazine/Clip.

[KangHur]

That's because you're using rifle amp, that's for the rifles. As for the Lex - good catch there, although the aklato are doing 24 for me. Are you sure you don't mean akbolto?

Yep sorry forgot to remove artifact buff. My bad.

[J-Pax]

What you term DPS is not DPS at all.  It's Damage Per Magazine/Clip.

 

Having worked painstakingly on my formula, I'm fairly confident that damage * fire rate is dps. No, that is not the limit of my formulae, I have crit calculations, reloads per minute, reload times, time in a minute spent reloading amongst other things as well in there too. It is a full formula that represents someone actively firing one of the weapons non-stop until the clip is empty, reloading, and then repeating the process. That, by definition of being the actual damage the character has done over time, is DPS.

 

 

Although I have indeed made a graph that represents the actual DPM (damage per minute) versus the damage per ammo pool. So I'm geussing you have seen one graph and gone "Meh". I suggest you scroll down :P

 

 

 

EDIT: =K$3*((B14*B$3+B14*B$3*F$3+B14*B$3*E$3+B14*B$3*D$3+B14*B$3*C$3)+(B14*B$3+B14*B$3*F$3+B14*B$3*E$3+B14*B$3*D$3+B14*B$3*C$3)*(F14*I$3*(G14*J$3-1)))*(C14*G$3)*(60-((60/((D14*N$3)/(C14*G$3)+E14/H$3))*(E14/H$3)))

 

You go ahead and have fun with this.

Edited May 7, 2013 by J-Pax

[Geuax]

ok i'll be the the guy to ask, what sort of arcane math are you doing to get those buffed dpm? ther is no way you can get 2000-4000% increases your  listing

 

maybe you could link to the spreadsheet and not a text document.... 

[J-Pax]

ok i'll be the the guy to ask, what sort of arcane math are you doing to get those buffed dpm? ther is no way you can get 2000-4000% increases your listing

maybe you could link to the spreadsheet and not a text document....

The spreadsheet is protected, that's why it's showing up the way it is. The formula in the post above is what I used for the calculation.

In a wordy format:

Multishot Mod * (((Damage*Damage mod + Damage*Damage mod*Elemental Mod,etc)+((Damage*Damage mod + Damage*Damage mod*Elemental Mod,etc)*Crit*Crit Mod*(Crit damage*Crit damage mod-1))* Fire Rate* Fire Rate Mod) *(60-((60/((Clip Size*Clip Mod)/(Fire Rate*Fire Rate Mod)+Reload Time/Reload Mod)

All in all:

Multishot * ((Damage + Crit Damage)*Fire Rate) * (60-((60/(Clip/Fire rate + Reload time)) 

Even further:

Raw DPS * (60- Time spent reloading per minute)

 

Oh god so simples:

 

Raw DPS * Time Spent Dakka Dakka Shazzaaaaam.

Edit: Is it weird I find it a compliment you called my maths arcane? I feel like a fricking Wizard! I AM HARRY POTTER! Mind you that might just be sleep deprivation from being up all night filling out the melee table through actually playing with every melee weapon.

Edited May 7, 2013 by J-Pax

[Geuax]

it isnt, 

 

that doent explain why the  "moded" dpm of the branton is  42 times the raw dpm

 

never mind i figured out what you did. tip you cant shove all 14 maxed out mods in a gun, it tough to get the top 6 in.

 

ps.  you can just set the share link  viewable only. and skip protecting your sheet from yourself

 

like this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An-zXpMDB9fTdEpxWmFRcnBSeHB5MVUtY2hLNkw1LWc&usp=sharing

Edited May 7, 2013 by Geuax

[Shwoooop]

Did you take swing speed into consideration since it affects charge attacks?

Edited May 7, 2013 by TRTerror

[Thypari2013]

Your formula is overkill and wrong. I don't even know why false data is pinned to the forum.

 

Your calculations assume you can reload non integer numbers like 11.3 or 18.232 times per minute, which is just wrong.

 

Change the calculations to simple: ((Damage+CritDamage) / FireRate) / (Clip / FireRate + Reload Time)

 

 

Also why is there "Crit damage*Crit damage mod-1" ? When the mod is 0.15. And the base crit damage is 1.5 it is simple:

 

1.5 * (1 + 0.15)

Crit damage * (1 + Crit damage Mod)

 

 

Also the "Raw DPS * Time Spent" is purely theoretical. Because lets say I spent 5s. Some now have to reload in these 5s and others don't. Making the whole dps * timespent inaccurate and wrong.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Thypari2013

[ThePresident777]

Having worked painstakingly on my formula, I'm fairly confident that damage * fire rate is dps. No, that is not the limit of my formulae, I have crit calculations, reloads per minute, reload times, time in a minute spent reloading amongst other things as well in there too. It is a full formula that represents someone actively firing one of the weapons non-stop until the clip is empty, reloading, and then repeating the process. That, by definition of being the actual damage the character has done over time, is DPS.

 

 

Although I have indeed made a graph that represents the actual DPM (damage per minute) versus the damage per ammo pool. So I'm geussing you have seen one graph and gone "Meh". I suggest you scroll down :P

 

 

 

EDIT: =K$3*((B14*B$3+B14*B$3*F$3+B14*B$3*E$3+B14*B$3*D$3+B14*B$3*C$3)+(B14*B$3+B14*B$3*F$3+B14*B$3*E$3+B14*B$3*D$3+B14*B$3*C$3)*(F14*I$3*(G14*J$3-1)))*(C14*G$3)*(60-((60/((D14*N$3)/(C14*G$3)+E14/H$3))*(E14/H$3)))

 

You go ahead and have fun with this.

 

You said that your so called DPS formula does not include reload time so spare the condescending BS.  If you don't include reload time then you are modeling a gun with infinite ammo, a gun that does not exist in the game.  Which makes your DPS calculation fraudulent and meaningless.