This Was Very Poorly Designed Around Players With Arsenal Full Of Mods And Proves That Raids Consisting Of Lvl80 Enemies Isnt A Good Idea.

[sappinmahsentry]

I've seen people saying "get mods and get gud". But I don't wanna play boring P42W. This TA showed that P42W is the most effective way of doing something and not having fun.

[Marthrym]

Unfotunately... And not sure what you mean by "them". The community ? Or the Warframes ?

If you mean the Warframes, I do give them a chance, and I have most of them forma'd, and most of them over 10mil XP (for those that didn't glitch when I forma'd them, aaaah, sweet profile XP issues...), have none of them over 10% use because I use them all, maybe not equally, but I use them all and enjoy them all, even poor Hydroid.

And I wasn't surprised, like I said, "most" (kind of heh, everything's relative) of the community consider these frames useless, and never bother using them. It is indeed sad, I'm sad, let's be sad together and comfort ourselves with a glass of Greedy Milk alcohol!

I meant people. Am I really giving the community too much "credit"?^^'

I was surprised. I mean I "dreaded" it, but still... Seeing it like that put in numbers, with "1%" for these 4 frames... Just sad.

[sanj66]

What's false? You need to be more clear. Most damage skills don't scale, but some do. Nope, there are damage skills that scale and can be used at higher levels. The relativity? So far the only comparison is the TA has high level mobs, and so will raids. Beyond that there is no real comparison. I don't remember him saying that. I don't really care about Focus. I don't remember them saying they intentionally made the Rakta Ballistica crappy, can you link me to the portion where they said that? I do remember Steve having trouble agreeing with the community's general consensus (he seemed to think its AoE proc made up for its general crappiness), but I don't remember him or anyone else saying it was supposed to be bad. What do you mean "what will [they] have then?" If raids are endgame that means they're the end of the game. If you expect something to be located after the raids then you don't want raids to be endgame. I'm pretty sure very few players actually want endgame content at this point.

 

 

Radiation procs don't last long.

1. Fire fright should provide enough CC to allow a skilled Ember player to solo. Accelerant would be a cherry on top. This is one of the few times I'll say skill would be needed to make something work in warframe.

2. Snow globe can be replenished.

3. You can place multiple electric shields at once, and Shock provides CC.

4. I think you're forgetting Saryn's molt augment.

5. Not sure about Mesa so I'll give you this one.

6. Mag has CC in Pull and Crush (wouldn't recommend using crush though), and Bullet Attractor with max range should shield you from a lot of enemy fire if placed correctly. With the Arcane helmet her Pull has a range of 65m, how is that not enough?

7. My Trinity doesn't have enough forma to test it out, but I don't see why Trinity shouldn't be able to solo.

8. Map wide slow+ the ability to move around quickly should keep you safe and make solo'ing doable.

9. Did Turbulence get nerfed while I wasn't looking or are you just ignoring its existence? And Tornado should help out.

10. Rhino doesn't need to be able to spam stomp if he isn't killing any enemies with it. He just needs to re-cast every 8 seconds or however long it is.

 

Nope, I only count 2 maybe 4 frames that may be incapable of soloing. Your problem is you really think that CC is the only answer, when it isn't. Valkyr would be relying on one skill. Limbo would be relying on 1-3 skills. Vauban has two (Bastille+Augment and Vortex) that could be used. Revise your numbers. I'll reserve judgement on raids and each frame's raiding potential until more information is given. From what I saw in the devstream, every frame should be capable of contributing to a successful run.

 

Revise your numbers. You failed to take into account the fact that some damage skills do scale and I'm willing to bet you ignored several abilities that would be useful.

devs not limiting playstyle choices via removal of the mod cards, your choice is still limited due to many reasons, scaling, builds and general overall usage. due to the way the game is designed with weapons actually accounting for more damage than a skill and exponentially in most cases, cc is the way most frame set ups are made or selected by, that by itself is a funneled choice due to the poor design of "difficulty", secondly just because a skill is still present does not make it useful if they truly intended on not hampering player play style diversity and allowing a player to freely choose how they want to play then the negative "debuff" of a corrupted card would either be determined by the player or there would be multiples of a debuff with differing buffs, or vice versa. the relativity of mob levels and scaling is the whole point, what else is counted as difficulty in this game? go back to the stream when reb was playing scott did say this is 2/3 of what raids are atm or as it is currently designed, and the stream previously or the one before htat steve did openly say he purposefully made the rakta crappy, be it serious or sarcastic both are in some way insulting to the playerbase, you either purposefully made a crappy weapon to funnel players away from a syndicate just as cephalon got the gammacor after it was revealed they had the lowest syndicate base, coincidental isnt it? again limiting or attempting to limit player choice. you do not care about focus but alot of people do thats why for quite a bit of the streams thus far it came up along with the issue of endgame content, be it real endgame content not a temporary stall. if many players dont want it then why was in continually mentioned as a question posed all through last year and this year as well?

[Bazools]

Did it only for the Stance mod and it was a hell lot of fun. Ran a Zephyr with a random squad and it wasn't all that difficult.

 

Props to DE for some extra difficulty and a challenge.

[Briareos]

I've seen dozens of strategies for completing this, each from someone who swears that's the only way to finish it. "You need these four frames for these exact roles or you just can't do it!" I was part of a PUG last night that did it with three Irradiating Disarm Lokis and a Limbo. If that vast array of successful strategies doesn't disprove OPs point, I don't know what does.

[Liminal]

I've seen dozens of strategies for completing this, each from someone who swears that's the only way to finish it. "You need these four frames for these exact roles or you just can't do it!" I was part of a PUG last night that did it with three Irradiating Disarm Lokis and a Limbo. If that vast array of successful strategies doesn't disprove OPs point, I don't know what does.

You need hard CC or invulnerability. If you can't shut down enemies or become unkillable it's unlikely you'll be able to complete it.

[Callback]

I've seen dozens of strategies for completing this, each from someone who swears that's the only way to finish it. "You need these four frames for these exact roles or you just can't do it!" I was part of a PUG last night that did it with three Irradiating Disarm Lokis and a Limbo. If that vast array of successful strategies doesn't disprove OPs point, I don't know what does.

^This.

 

I've heard so many weird and creative strategies to complete it.  There is no shortage of interesting ways to break the game, and tactical alerts are about figuring them all out.  It's not about a specific build, it's about coming up with a plan.  No, OP, you are NEVER going to be able to load into a random PUG and just complete it.  The strategy begins from the loadouts up.  I've seen a strategy involving almost every frame that worked.  The only ones I didn't see were Ash and Zephyr, but I'm betting somebody did manage to get those working too.

 

The challenge of tactical alerts is mostly in the planning.  Once that's set, the actual execution should go smoothly.

[Marthrym]

I've seen dozens of strategies for completing this, each from someone who swears that's the only way to finish it. "You need these four frames for these exact roles or you just can't do it!" I was part of a PUG last night that did it with three Irradiating Disarm Lokis and a Limbo. If that vast array of successful strategies doesn't disprove OPs point, I don't know what does.

Tell me these dozens of different strategies. Please. Humour me.

People have been saying you can do it with any frame that has either hard CC or complete damage mitigation. Or in a team that has them. Apparently 8 or 9 frames have the abilities that can do that effectively. So less than half the "roster".

 

The ACTUAL amount of strategies equals to ONE. NEUTRALIZE the enemy completely. There are only TWO ways to do that with this scaling ; complete damage mitigation, or hard CC. Okay maybe three, obviously kill everything before it can shoot you even once, though it's a bit complicated. So many options indeed, I'm lost!

 

Sure, one could say it's always that : kill them before they kill you. But the HOW is very limited here.

"Dozens" of strategies my sweet patootie.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Marthrym

[Raithon07]

This almost seems like Warframe is becoming a number crunching game / pick the right equipment game. hmm sounds like WoW. Call me crazy but it almost seems like design is shifting. To something that would bring in more stable cash from the most people instead of trying to innovate and do that crazy &#! thing that no one has dared to do before? I mean we are playing as SPACE FREAKING NINJAS. Do you(DE) think the majority of the community would like sitting down and spamming buttons or actually running around and feeling like a ninja?

 

OP brings up some serious issues with the game at current. Its not like said abilities have to be removed... Challenging people with parkour (meaning that cleaning it up should be a higher priority than this stupid 8 player raid crap that already has major issues in concept.) and puzzles that wouldn't infuriate people for accidental hitting one key wrong for example. I know DE wants to challenge people but challenge vs quality of life in play is a rickety balancing act. and hopefully they affirm that this is a problem that they have been attempting to tackle in dev.

 

But with tenno live coming soon DE will be tight liped about everything to not spoil their "big reveals" 

 

TLDR: OP brings up valid points and dev could tackle the problem better, but we wont get decent feedback from dev until after tennolive.

[Callback]

^This.

 

I've heard so many weird and creative strategies to complete it.  There is no shortage of interesting ways to break the game, and tactical alerts are about figuring them all out.  It's not about a specific build, it's about coming up with a plan.  No, OP, you are NEVER going to be able to load into a random PUG and just complete it.  The strategy begins from the loadouts up.  I've seen a strategy involving almost every frame that worked.  The only ones I didn't see were Ash and Zephyr, but I'm betting somebody did manage to get those working too.

 

The challenge of tactical alerts is mostly in the planning.  Once that's set, the actual execution should go smoothly.

Scratch the Ash.  Found someone who ran him with a Savage Silence Banshee, bladestorming up 6 digit damage.

 

 

So yeah.  Way more was viable than OP could even fathom.  It's all about finding out what.

[Liminal]

Scratch the Ash.  Found someone who ran him with a Savage Silence Banshee, bladestorming up 6 digit damage.

That's great, but who kept Banshee alive? Ash makes himself invulnerable (which goes back to disabling enemies or getting absolute damage negation), but I find it hard to believe Banshee can make it on her own.

[RealPandemonium]

That's great, but who kept Banshee alive? Ash makes himself invulnerable (which goes back to disabling enemies or getting absolute damage negation), but I find it hard to believe Banshee can make it on her own.

She could have just stayed in Sound Quake in the little room under the center of the map in between Silences and Sonars.

[Otaiken]

That's great, but who kept Banshee alive? Ash makes himself invulnerable (which goes back to disabling enemies or getting absolute damage negation), but I find it hard to believe Banshee can make it on her own.

 

She could jump on that point in the map where enemies can't reach you and just keep popping restores.

 

Thepoint still stands that you have to be pretty much completely invulnerable to enemies to succeed.

Edited March 2, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[sanj66]

I've seen dozens of strategies for completing this, each from someone who swears that's the only way to finish it. "You need these four frames for these exact roles or you just can't do it!" I was part of a PUG last night that did it with three Irradiating Disarm Lokis and a Limbo. If that vast array of successful strategies doesn't disprove OPs point, I don't know what does.

all of those support the op, as all strategies listed here and on youtube all revolve around cc, its the same strategy with a different skin, how best can you cc the opponents. that was the op's point he used an example of what makes it easy mode but all in all it boils down to cc. thats not diversity thats bottle necking playstyle.

[Liminal]

She could have just stayed in Sound Quake in the little room under the center of the map in between Silences and Sonars.

Yeah, that's true, she can do it herself. Still:

The point still stands that you have to be pretty much completely invulnerable to enemies to succeed.

 

You either shut enemies down, make yourself invulnerable or, well, find an exploit.

It's not challenge and it's not a proper endgame.

 

I spent more than 30 minutes in the Rift baiting enemies into Hydroid's pool. It wasn't difficult, it wasn't fun, and that's what we can expect with WF's scaling: no real variation, just "Ok, guys, lock'em down and go invisible (or similar)!".

[RealPandemonium]

Yeah, that's true, she can do it herself. Still:

 

You either shut enemies down, make yourself invulnerable or, well, find an exploit.

It's not challenge and it's not a proper endgame.

 

I spent more than 30 minutes in the Rift baiting enemies into Hydroid's pool. It wasn't difficult, it wasn't fun, and that's what we can expect with WF's scaling: no real variation, just "Ok, guys, lock'em down and go invisible (or similar)!".

Advocate nerfs and revisions to gameplay-eliminating options so that the game can be fun again.  We also need to tone down all the powercreeped weapons that let us clear T4s with half-upgraded weapons.  We also need to eliminate Grineer armor scaling and enemies that one-shot us.  This game can be fun again but people might actually need to learn how to play and surrender their cheese.

[Briareos]

Tell me these dozens of different strategies. Please. Humour me.

People have been saying you can do it with any frame that has either hard CC or complete damage mitigation. Or in a team that has them. Apparently 8 or 9 frames have the abilities that can do that effectively. So less than half the "roster".

 

The ACTUAL amount of strategies equals to ONE. NEUTRALIZE the enemy completely. There are only TWO ways to do that with this scaling ; complete damage mitigation, or hard CC. Okay maybe three, obviously kill everything before it can shoot you even once, though it's a bit complicated. So many options indeed, I'm lost!

 

Sure, one could say it's always that : kill them before they kill you. But the HOW is very limited here.

"Dozens" of strategies my sweet patootie.

 

Sure thing. Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2xepq3/megathread_the_phoenix_intercept_strategy/ It's up to 161 comments as of this post. I'm not going to list them all.

 

But seriously, you want to use any strategy to finish the mission? That sounds incredibly boring to me. I enjoyed the challenge of coming up with a build that worked and a strategy to deploy it. If you want to do anything you want inside of a mission without serious threat of failing it, I hear Mercury has a nice selection to choose from.

[Briareos]

Also, I should point out that I did the first two alert missions (for the stance and Stratos upgrade) just straight-up killing my way through it. Level 80 enemies? Did OP write this when the mission was still bugged?

 

No fancy tricks, just some good old-fashioned alpha space ninja murdertimes. So I call BS on the whole "you NEED an X, a Y, and a Z frame" stuff. It was only the Escalation mission that really needed a tweaked loadout.

[Davoodoo]

Sure thing. Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2xepq3/megathread_the_phoenix_intercept_strategy/ It's up to 161 comments as of this post. I'm not going to list them all.

 

But seriously, you want to use any strategy to finish the mission? That sounds incredibly boring to me. I enjoyed the challenge of coming up with a build that worked and a strategy to deploy it. If you want to do anything you want inside of a mission without serious threat of failing it, I hear Mercury has a nice selection to choose from.

I went through that, only comp that wasnt complete cheese was 

Rep Farm/Damage Comp

• rep farm Trinity
• support frame
• kill frame
• kill frame

But that still involved excaliburs for both dmg and cc or ash + volt to save your ! if you screw up also with ashes being easy ress.

 

Also

The Scrub Carry Comp (I Put Da Team On Mah Back)

• irradiated disarm Loki (max range, max efficiency, Irradiated Disarm augment)
• scrub
• scrub
• scrub

Does any argument is still needed...

Edited March 2, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Liminal]

Advocate nerfs and revisions to gameplay-eliminating options so that the game can be fun again.  We also need to tone down all the powercreeped weapons that let us clear T4s with half-upgraded weapons.  We also need to eliminate Grineer armor scaling and enemies that one-shot us.  This game can be fun again but people might actually need to learn how to play and surrender their cheese.

And I agree, a lot of tweaks and revisions need to be made. I've supported most threads that gave great suggestions that reduced scaling both for us and the enemies. I'm against Serration and its ilk.

 

That doesn't mean this alert didn't bring to light horrible issues with high level enemies. And that the only way to get things done was by negating 100% of the enemy's damage or by shutting them down (which obviously negates 100% of their damage). In fact, I think this alert supports the idea that WF needs a thorough look at balance and difficulty.

Edited March 2, 2015 by The_Doc

[Otaiken]

I seriously think that endless modes need an actual end. There is no balance point anywhere and the game is absolute mess because of that.

 

So I would be fine with DE releasing the raids and going: "Ok, this is it. Lvl 80 is the top game. Endless goes to a 100 for the masochists and that's it."

 

And then they could start balancing the game (and tweaking the star chart) around that.

 

And that level 80 should be the sweet spot. Where if you have the end-game gear (whatever that is in this game) you should be fine. You should be able to take a few hits without being reckless (no instakills) and tanky frames should be able to take a few more and you know... actually tank (without invincibility BS) aka draw fire from the squishies so you don't need to completely neuter enemies. Enemies should take reasonable time to kill provided you target the weakpoints (this rewards skillful gunplay apart from just stat boosting). You should be able to melee and block and avoid fire through agility provided you're good enough at it.

 

And the enemies should be allowed to fight back. So diminishig returns and CC hard caps are in order. No more XP pinatas. You can still CC them, but for F***'s sake give them a chance.

 

But until that point as long as the community has the stupid "WE HAVE TO GO HIGHER!!!" mentality this game is gonna remain a friggin mess.

Edited March 2, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[aoguro]

im not playing a game by doing whatever math around a few hundred mods and weapons where 80 % of them are totally useless  =)

 

if you go into whatever war in RL you have no time for math or anything like that, you need to be fast and highly concious ...

 

i love to play intuitive in a internetgame, everything else is a waste of time ... and money ,-)

 

but ok, we all have different taste and view 8-)

Edited March 2, 2015 by VOR73X

[SquirmyBurrito]

Oberon ulti proc lasts 12s.

1.Fire blast is los locked, napalm shots arent and hitscan bullets travel faster than blast wave

2.Not fast enough against enemies who kill 95% dmg reduction mesa, mirage, trinity with 1 blow

3.They dont block napalm shots, shock stuns only few targets for a short time, basically limited target accelerant.

4.Molt clone dies with single hit, augment aint needed since you cant regen hp.

5.

6.Its not radial, meaning you will constantly be shot in your back

7.Even 95% dmg reduction doesnt save you.

8.Ability to move in interception?? even if you slow them you need to face them in order to get them off consoles, most of the time thats where you will get shot.

9.Turbulence doesnt work against napalm aoe and hitscan bullets and even against non hitscan bullets it isnt 100% reliable.

10. If he manages to cover whole map at once yeah, but if 1 single enemy wont be affected, rhino uses 1 revive and these are limited.

 

I count in valkyr using hysteria and warcry, i count in limbo using riftwalk and banish and i count in vauban using vortex and bastille, yes 17 out of 88. You can be fancy and throw 1 of other 71 but they will have no effect or effect so insignificant compared to these 17 that they simply might not exist at this point.

 

Sounds like another frame that can solo the TA.

1. Fire Fright doesn't apply its affect to the expanding wave, it is applied to the ring of fire that is left afterwards. Maxed duration would cause that ring to sit around for almost an entire minute.

2. I think you're forgetting how Snow Globe works now. The first 4 seconds it is down it is completely invulnerable, after that the damage it would have taken during that invulernability period is converted into its health. 500% of Frost's armor is also applied to Snow Globe. And Casting another Snow Globe on top of the current one combines the health of both. And Mesa can take more than one shot with 95% damage reduction, I know this because I tested it. I took quite a few bullets before I stupidly wandered up to a napalm and got oneshoted by their ground-pound. I didn't feel like wasting a revive or having to use another energy restore to continue testing so I quit after that. So further testing on mesa is needed. I haven't tested Trinity. And Mirage should focus on keeping the entire map blind.

3. Electric Shield does block napalm shots, it just doesn't block the AoE damage that comes from that shot. Distance yourself from the shields and you should be fine. Shock is incredibly spammable.

4. You do not die from a single shot. That is an exaggeration. If my Limbo could survive a few shots, so can a tanky Saryn.

5. 

6. It can be spammed fast enough to prevent any enemies being left standing on the map. So you aren't going to get shot in the back. Especially if you keep Bullet Attractor cast on an enemy that is at a choke point.

7. 95% damage reduction+the ability to instantly replenish your health and shields to 100% should be more than enough to save you.

8. Yes, the ability to move from point to point without having to physically walk that distance. That will reduce your time spent in the open and reduce the chances of any stray fire actually hitting you. You can kill them before they even get to the console and you can do some from a distance as Nova is one of the few frames that have scaling damage.

9. Alright.

10. With a max range of 58.75 meters, you should have no trouble locking down the majority of the map. From there all that is needed is careful positioning to avoid cross-map fire. Enemies stuck floating in the air will block the path of unaffected enemies trying to use the same walkways. Making sure to slot an overextended will reduce your damage so there is even less of a chance of you accidentally killing an enemy.

 

devs not limiting playstyle choices via removal of the mod cards, your choice is still limited due to many reasons, scaling, builds and general overall usage. due to the way the game is designed with weapons actually accounting for more damage than a skill and exponentially in most cases, cc is the way most frame set ups are made or selected by, that by itself is a funneled choice due to the poor design of "difficulty", secondly just because a skill is still present does not make it useful if they truly intended on not hampering player play style diversity and allowing a player to freely choose how they want to play then the negative "debuff" of a corrupted card would either be determined by the player or there would be multiples of a debuff with differing buffs, or vice versa. the relativity of mob levels and scaling is the whole point, what else is counted as difficulty in this game? go back to the stream when reb was playing scott did say this is 2/3 of what raids are atm or as it is currently designed, and the stream previously or the one before htat steve did openly say he purposefully made the rakta crappy, be it serious or sarcastic both are in some way insulting to the playerbase, you either purposefully made a crappy weapon to funnel players away from a syndicate just as cephalon got the gammacor after it was revealed they had the lowest syndicate base, coincidental isnt it? again limiting or attempting to limit player choice. you do not care about focus but alot of people do thats why for quite a bit of the streams thus far it came up along with the issue of endgame content, be it real endgame content not a temporary stall. if many players dont want it then why was in continually mentioned as a question posed all through last year and this year as well?

 

I never said they didn't limit playstyle by removing the ability mod cards. I disagree with the idea that choice is limited for any of the underlined. You can make non-optimal builds work. This is the same game where whenever an ability is capable of competing with the 'weapons do most of the damage' meta, people cry for a nerf. Most frames have some form of CC, or other way of protecting themselves. .

 

I'm just going to cross through the bits that are completely irrelevant.

 

I'm pretty sure the difficulty was in trying to figure out the puzzle. The high level mobs were there purely to distract and make coming up with the solution take longer. If Raids were only supposed to be about high level mobs, DE wouldn't have bothered with the puzzle, and all the enemies would be high level nullifiers paired with shield drones and regular drones.

 

Provide me with the clip where he said he made it crappy on purpose. And IIRC, Cephalon Suda was shown to be one of the more supported syndicates from the beginning. Perrin was the one that barely anyone supported. I think you got your info mixed up.

 

I don't care about focus because barely anything is known about it. Players are hanging all their hope on the idea that focus will be this super amazing feature that will revitalize the game for them. That is a mistake, and when focus comes out and doesn't live up to the hype, they will be crushed and will either leave the game or hang their hope on the next feature that DE mentions. They did this with dark sectors, and they did this with syndicates.

 

How often do players actually know what they want when it comes to video games? The answer is rarely. A great example of this is the Call of Duty franchise. The players collectively complain about a feature and request changes, then when the new one comes out offering exactly what was requested, the community claims the game is terrible and they hate all the changes. Players don't want endgame content, they want late-game content. Late-game content being content that will keep high-end players entertained but won't signify the end of their experience with the game. For content to be labeled end-game content, there must be an end to the game.

 

Edit: broke it up to make it easier to read.

Edited March 2, 2015 by SquirmyBurrito

[Briareos]

I went through that, only comp that wasnt complete cheese was 

Rep Farm/Damage Comp

• rep farm Trinity
• support frame
• kill frame
• kill frame

But that still involved excaliburs for both dmg and cc or ash + volt to save your ! if you screw up also with ashes being easy ress.

 

Also

The Scrub Carry Comp (I Put Da Team On Mah Back)

• irradiated disarm Loki (max range, max efficiency, Irradiated Disarm augment)
• scrub
• scrub
• scrub

Does any argument is still needed...

 

The latest post in that thread says they did it with a Banshee using Sound Quake, a Nyx using Chaos, a Loki running around being invisible and disarming, and a Rhino. How is that cheese, exactly? You could run the exact same squad in any defense mission on the starchart and people would just nod because it's basic defense strategy.

 

Someone else said they soloed it with Saryn and a rank 0 Scindo. Cheesy? Sounds more like ballsy to me.

 

Here's some more squads I pulled at random from the thread:

 

3 Vaubans and a Trinity.

 

Hydroid, Saryn, Ash, and Limbo.

 

Limbo, Mirage, Trinity, and Excalibur.

 

Loki, Nova, Trinity, and Nyx.

 

Sorry, not seeing the cheese at all. The fact of the matter is, there are few if any missions that can be done with any frame doing whatever it wants. Nobody complains that we're being railroaded by DE because CC is a lousy strategy for Survival.

[Liminal]

3 Vaubans and a Trinity.

 

Hydroid, Saryn, Ash, and Limbo.

 

Limbo, Mirage, Trinity, and Excalibur.

 

Loki, Nova, Trinity, and Nyx.

 

Sorry, not seeing the cheese at all. The fact of the matter is, there are few if any missions that can be done with any frame doing whatever it wants. Nobody complains that we're being railroaded by DE because CC is a lousy strategy for Survival.

All those squads can lock down the enemies and/or make the party invincible. They may use different frames but that's what they do in the end, and sadly not every frame can do those things.

It's not that the CC is bad or that it is "cheating" (it's not), it's that scaling is so screwed up that your only choice is to completely deny the enemy the chance to act and attack you.

 

Now, if we get lots and lots of teams of Embers, Zephyrs, Mesas, Volts and Saryns completing the escalation, then I'll be impressed.

"Someone else said they soloed it with Saryn and a rank 0 Scindo." > Yeah and that requires proof :P