This Was Very Poorly Designed Around Players With Arsenal Full Of Mods And Proves That Raids Consisting Of Lvl80 Enemies Isnt A Good Idea.

[pavlo555]

Oneshot when out of the cover... Oneshot when you're in the open field... Even if you stay on cover there aren't safe places while capping bases.

The only counterplay is spamming Hard CC and staying stealthed. 

This isn't promoting skillful and smart playing.

This does involve skill . It does not involve using bolter perm and rhino prem. Also , it seems like you have never been in hour+ t4survival. I can bring karak on it and still perform fairly well without corrosive projection but this is just a bit more instanity. Personally , i loved going the alert through using various tactics (i was EV trinity , SQ banshee , Loki, greedy Mag, attractor Mag and , well , i didn't get to use vauban and don't have nova and am sad). I am hyped for raids because i can really play them.

P.S. skill in my meaning , when you need to do something better than bad to not screw this up. This is what alert was 'bout.

Edited March 1, 2015 by pavlo555

[Monolake]

 in case someone didn't believe this was soloable with Loki

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTVuU-Bx6o8&feature=youtu.be

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTVuU-Bx6o8

Edited March 1, 2015 by Monolake

[pyriel.gen]

New TA ofc, what else.

 

Whats wrong with it??

1) got loki??

2) got 4 corrosive proejctions??

3) got fully modded scindo or galantine with viral build??(viral helps alot, not necessary though)

4) got enough energy restores or trin??

5) got some slow nova or vortex vauban

 

If you fulfilled 5 above requirments you can enjoy mindlessly slashing enemies which cant retaliate because if they somehow manage to retaliate, you are dead.

 

Thats what this new TA represents and that is how raids are gonna look like, except step 3, it will be replaced with something else.

Only 3k, less than 1% of all players managed to clear it so far, rest either dont care, isnt around or dont have enough gear to fulfill 5 step program.

 

It aint hard, its just stupid.

 

Edit: ppl i know you could probably ignore everything above, bring 4 valkyrs or perma invis lokis and still make it, 5 step program is just surefire way for any group, still some hard cc, perma invis or hysteria is needed.

 

While this is not a "starter" tactical alert, any player that unlocked the node without being rushed by others should be able to do it. The only real "requirements" are a maxed frame/weapon and some common/uncommon mods with at least 5 ranks. And it goes without saying that you need to know how to play your frame and an interception mission. But like any other games, there will be always shortcuts for more experienced/resourceful players, which does not imply that the game is broken or unbalanced, Every game that revolves around grinding has a power progression, Warframe is not different.

[SlashD17]

It is playable, enemies are sponge bullets but what can we do about it. Simple strategy, vauban loki nova and valkyr.

Valkyr for warcry, Loki for radial disarm, Vauban would spawn bastile on their spawn points, Nova for Molecular Prime.

Wed run around the map and wait till the towerds would reach 100%, then wed kill the enemies. No need to use revives, or to spam E.

Edited March 1, 2015 by SlashD17

[dddeath]

super hard stuff shouldn't be for low rank players anyway.

[Ghostgate]

Yesterday I was kind of upset about this TA but after a good night's sleep I tried again with a decent group. Managed to do escalation, had a bit of fun too. Not sure if I'd like to see something similar in the future.

[UseNet]

[Davoodoo]

But stay, soon we will celebrate 100th missed point reply.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Davoodoo

[SwiftPotato12]

I disagree with you OP. My friend and I did the mission by ourselves, with nothing but Gallatine, and didn't plan ahead. That being said, he had limbo and I had banshee. Neither of these frames are listed in your list, yet we made it through just fine. Raids that are coming are meant to be hard. Players that are new to the game have enough content. The raids are for the later game players that need content that can stand up to their 4-5 Forma Synoid Gammacor/Boltor Prime.

[sanj66]

I disagree with you OP. My friend and I did the mission by ourselves, with nothing but Gallatine, and didn't plan ahead. That being said, he had limbo and I had banshee. Neither of these frames are listed in your list, yet we made it through just fine. Raids that are coming are meant to be hard. Players that are new to the game have enough content. The raids are for the later game players that need content that can stand up to their 4-5 Forma Synoid Gammacor/Boltor Prime.

like he said you all missed the point completely, difficulty was never listed as the problem, the problem is just what you said funneling the choice of a player, the dev's continually talk about a sandbox element where you play as you want etc and not forcing play styles or game progression onto the player, but with raids you must use X frame or use X frame with Y set up for it to work or you fail, or you must use X gun with Y build.

[Qynchou]

Yep. Already pointed this out in another thread.

 

I dont care if DE makes raid enemies level 5000, I will still be able to beat them due to current state of warframe powers.

 

You know what DE? Make enemy health 5 billion and their damage 1 billion and I will still be able to beat them.

[_FrostPrime_]

Oh but it does, high lvl enemies is what connects these 2, if high lvl enemies and ability exploitation is broken on 1 mission why would it work better on another one.

 

This problem is as old as endless scaling itself and should be dealt with already.

 

This quote is a perfect example of players who can't accept any way but their way. Better sit back and enjoy the tears once the floodgates open.

[Qynchou]

This quote is a perfect example of players who can't accept any way but their way. Better sit back and enjoy the tears once the floodgates open.

No it isnt. Hes right. As of now the thing that DE has been promoting (and yeah I'll admit is subject to change) is that you will have to deal with high level enemies while solving how to advance to the next level. You know what the problem with that is? That enemy level doesnt matter, hell, there might aswell be no enemies because we can permanently disable them regardless of their level.

[_FrostPrime_]

Nullifiers disagree with you. We have to actually destroy their semi-balls to attempt getting them under control and god knows what is inside it.

 

We've only seen previews of Raid content. Not everything we're actually getting. Keep your shorts on and put a belt around your pants.

[-.SP.-G43riel]

Yeah people complain without making any sense, these missions are meant TO BE HARD, THEY are NOT for every player,  we've been asking for them for a long time, it's nice to see that DE is hearing and actually making Raids with lvl 80 creatures  and are starting to do challenges like that.
IF you can't complete them, it's not their fault, it's yours, it's because you or your team are not prepared to face it. 
 

 

like he said you all missed the point completely, difficulty was never listed as the problem, the problem is just what you said funneling the choice of a player, the dev's continually talk about a sandbox element where you play as you want etc and not forcing play styles or game progression onto the player, but with raids you must use X frame or use X frame with Y set up for it to work or you fail, or you must use X gun with Y build.

Raids or Challenges? cause we still don't have raids, no one played them to test, only saw it on devstream. Now Challenges are meant to be like that, after all It's  a CHALLENGE, otherwise it would be just another mission.

[_FrostPrime_]

See this? We could all be having fun. Like this. But peeps feel the desperate need to fling sodium around until everybody starts dying off of high blood pressure. No Sodium Plz.

 

[arsyadpower]

you came from the future to tell us this? thx :)

[Davoodoo]

Nullifiers disagree with you. We have to actually destroy their semi-balls to attempt getting them under control and god knows what is inside it.

 

We've only seen previews of Raid content. Not everything we're actually getting. Keep your shorts on and put a belt around your pants.

Tactic for nullifiers?? invis loki goes in front of bubble, pulls out his weapon, fires 10 shots for bubble to drop and then proceeds to disable enemies.

Bubbles hp doesnt scale and isnt affected by dmg.

 

Oh yes we seen a preview, since u7 for over 2 years now we seen a preview to it. Why do ppl complain about lvl80 enemies?? because we played against those, why no one complains about puzzles?? we know nothing about them.

 

you came from the future to tell us this? thx :)

I came from the past.

I read all signs on the sky and earth, read the stars, asked my ancestors for guidance and communed with earth spirits.

 

In reality though i used experience which i acquired throughout game to determine how fights with lvl80 enemies and above look like and used nothing more than reason and logic to determine that lvl80+ enemies in raids wont behave any different from lvl80+ enemies on endless defense, interception, excavation or even lvl150 enemies from this TA.

Why is that?? because these are the same enemies.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Davoodoo

[ShardsSuperior]

I'm pretty sure DE did this intentionally...

[bluntpuffer]

We finally get something good and people bash on it. 

 

This community truely is going to hell.

[Davoodoo]

We finally get something good and people bash on it. 

 

This community truely is going to hell.

What do you mean by finally and good.

 

"finally" is out there since u7 and its objective fact.

"good" is outright making half of frames useless in a game when dev speaks about freedom of choice and removing meta, these are also objective facts.

[bluntpuffer]

What do you mean by finally and good.

 

"finally" is out there since u7 and its objective fact.

"good" is outright making half of frames useless in a game when dev speaks about freedom of choice and removing meta, these are also objective facts.

 

Sorry i don't understand half of what ur meaning but i'm just happy with the event since lately we haven't had any that were this much fun.

[S7ORM]

This wasnt hard, it was revolving around specific gear and powers.

 

Its not that raids are gonna be interception with lvl150 enemies.

But horde of lvl80 enemies wont be any different to approach than this, loki to disarm, slow nova to render harmless and then just shoot them down, rinse and repeat.

This means range heavy loki with duration heavy nova and 4cps to render their armor useless, now pack at least 15k dps gun and whatever else you bring wont matter.

 

Im pretty sure that ppl are aware of that, however that doesnt change much, whole gameplay against higher lvled enemies looks exactly like this TA.

 

Nothing changed except majority of players had a reason to play against high lvl enemies and prepare properly for them.

Many of them failed, before i did it with clan i tried with pug, simply couldnt do it, not because these ppl couldnt play, but because they didnt have cps, or havent maxed specific frame, many mr18 guys out there havent done that.

 

 

If endgame content removes/alienates styles of play that were fine throughout the game, where's the progression?

I personally think the problem is our strongest abilities and weapons are too strong and unbalanced, leading to these things being necessary to provide challenge.

 

 

No i want group of 8 friends which all enjoy their favorite frosts, put 5 forma in it each with their favorite paris primes which they put 6 forma in to be able to complete it.

 

If you think they havent done enough to enjoy raids then idk what to say.

You WILL be able to use whatever frames you want. It may just add an extra layer of challenge, but that's the point of the raid. Challenge. I see no issue with having a specific team loadout, covering all the bases that makes it an easy missions. I also see no issue with running 8 Zephyrs. It'll be hard, yes. I want it to be.

[LGear]

As many have already said, comparing Phoenix Intercept Escalation to Raids is a disingenuous comparison for a few reasons:

 

1. Raids have 8 players instead of 4, which allows for a larger variety of Warframes, weapons and auras to come into play. The larger number of Aura mods especially allows for some significant team buffing that you can't simply do with Escalation.

2. Raids do not have conclave and weapon limits. The reason Escalation was so hard was because you can only bring a Heavy Blade weapon while keeping under the 400 conclave limit, which means having to remove some mods and equipment to even perform the mission, thus players have to rely solely on Warframe powers to provide the bulk of their damage and CC against level 100 enemies. On the other hands, Raids don't have such limitations, so you can bring your fully modded Boltor Primes, Synoid Gammacors and other weapons to deal maximum damage against enemies.

3. Raids have a lower starting enemy level of 80, meaning that we'll be facing much weaker enemies than in Escalation.

 

I also disagree about Escalation limiting Warframe choices - let me ask who here honestly thought that Warframes like Limbo and Banshee were made for "high level content" before this alert? Those are two Warframes you honestly don't see many people bring in "high level content" in exchange for stuff like Loki and Nyx. And yet Escalation that featured level 100 enemies - a range you don't see in normal gameplay - saw two underutilized Warframes *shine*.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

You WILL be able to use whatever frames you want. It may just add an extra layer of challenge, but that's the point of the raid. Challenge. I see no issue with having a specific team loadout, covering all the bases that makes it an easy missions. I also see no issue with running 8 Zephyrs. It'll be hard, yes. I want it to be.

Yes, it will add challenge. It will go from "I was Loki and invisible and never got touched; raid too easy DE" to "I was Ember and had no way of defending myself in open space and no way of surviving when not. I burned all my revives and used accelerant 150+ times because that stun was the only thing keeping me alive." It will go from "I used a rep farm method. We stacked 5 buffs onto the Excalibur into our party. I don't know what faction we were fighting because I never saw an enemy from it." to "We had Rhino as a tank, Oberon to heal, Mesa for damage, and Nekros for support. Rhino couldn't tank and died. Mesa couldn't sit still and died. Oberon's healing didn't matter because two shots killed. He kind of ran around for a while and died. The Nekros had no chance of course." It will go from "Boltor Prime made it look easy." to "Melee is worthless." It swings between extremes of ease and tedium, or impossibility and frustration.

Tactical alerts are a good time for specific team setups to be the norm. But excluding a large portion of content from raids--endgame--is just bad design.