Loki Is Just Too Strong

[TheBrsrkr]

Not to doublequote, ash's ult is also far from beein one of the strongest. The bleeding proccs and dmg type are nice in therms of max dmg but the ability is slow and limited by a maxhit counter. The usability combined with the meleecounter influence is nice but it is fairly balanced compared to any other dmg dealing ability in the game. And building for it definitly ruins the invisibility (if you don't smash 20 arkane trickerys on him)

Loki can just go max range AND put plenty duration in his build. Bad example. Rly bad example that just shows the difference.

There's also the fact that Valkyr loses as much as she gains with Hysteria since she is forced into melee range to do somewhat small amounts of damage. As for Nova, not only does she have no damage reduction/avoidance skills outside of Wormhole (which is extremely ineffective in a heated fire fight) and even then many still consider her to be OP.

[Asokah]

The main argument of mostly tennos here is  :

"Operator dont claim nerf chill !" , the author doesnt  assume what he think he said : "I never SAID he needs a nerf, people. Deserve =/= Need. "  


But he said just before  : "Just about anything some frame can do, Loki can do better.  "  
 

He had never played this frame, he look video in solo and open this thread just because of it .

Yeah, loki have one of the best control in the game, its logical, his name is Loki, the deceiver, an old god of trickery but after ?  Control is very good but : 

- Loki dont interrupt while using invisibility ( ash does ) so if you don't move at the same time, you can be OS very easily.

- Invisibility IS NOT  invulnerability, some ennemies can hear you and attack you, all aoe work very well on you ( toxin damage say "hello"  )

- With ultimate build, hologram is very weak and invisibility is "short" ( about 15-20sec sec ) 

- Loki is one of the weakest frame ( with one of the weakest armor for prime frame )

- Loki is very hard to play and need more skills and more theorycrafting than your " put power and press 4 " frames , isnt a frame for newbies his 1 is very powerful combined with teleport and you can do very large actions with him and all of his spells.

- You don't have 100 % crit under invisibility but 400 % melee damage bonus.

- He is more weapon dependant than other frames ( only control  0 damage ) .

- Zeros, moas and detron crewmen can crush him 

- He IS NOT irreplaceable, nyx can handle it, exca can handle it, limbo too, frost ect... 
 

- He don't kill the fun factor ( like banshee couple years ago )

- And no, Loki isn't weak vs infested, is one of the best frame against them particularly combined with frost.
 
- Warframe isnt solo game





- 

Edited July 26, 2015 by Asokah

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

The main argument of mostly tennos here is :

"Operator dont claim nerf chill !" , the author doesnt assume what he think he said : "I never SAID he needs a nerf, people. Deserve =/= Need. "

But he said just before : "Just about anything some frame can do, Loki can do better. "

He had never played this frame, he look video in solo and open this thread just because of it .

Yeah, loki have one of the best control in the game, its logical, his name is Loki, the deceiver, an old god of trickery but after ? Control is very good but :

- Loki dont interrupt while using invisibility ( ash does ) so if you don't move at the same time, you can be OS very easily.

- Invisibility IS NOT invulnerability, some ennemies can hear you and attack you, all aoe work very well on you ( toxin damage say "hello" )

- With ultimate build, hologram is very weak and invisibility is "short" ( about 15-20sec sec )

- Loki is one of the weakest frame ( with one of the weakest armor for prime frame )

- Loki is very hard to play and need more skills and more theorycrafting than your " put power and press 4 " frames , isnt a frame for newbies his 1 is very powerful combined with teleport and you can do very large actions with him and all of his spells.

- You don't have 100 % crit under invisibility but 400 % melee damage bonus.

- He is more weapon dependant than other frames ( only control 0 damage ) .

- Zeros, moas and detron crewmen can crush him

- He IS NOT irreplaceable, nyx can handle it, exca can handle it, limbo too, frost ect...

- He don't kill the fun factor ( like banshee couple years ago )

- And no, Loki isn't weak vs infested, is one of the best frame against them particularly combined with frost.

- Warframe isnt solo game

-

You never played anything else right?

[Asokah]

My main is Ash :3

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

There's also the fact that Valkyr loses as much as she gains with Hysteria since she is forced into melee range to do somewhat small amounts of damage. As for Nova, not only does she have no damage reduction/avoidance skills outside of Wormhole (which is extremely ineffective in a heated fire fight) and even then many still consider her to be OP.

And damn DE for reverting the prior buff on valkyr.

Ya know, i never found a liking to hysteria. Mained this build on my early days in the game but dropped it the moment i got better melee weapons. I run a basestat/rage build on her. High dmg and CC with scindo+Tr and warcry on range and the only thing i used hysteria for was resurrecting allies. This is now impossible for her without dying herself after the duration. The only actuall use was nerfed for no reason.

You are right, you allready paid your price. You are not only stuck in melee range but the execution is horrible as well. Even a maxed build makes you equivalent to a afk player that shoots evry now and then to break the afk-lock in therms of dps and CC.

Valkyrs invulnerable hysteria means S#&$ in a discussion.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

My main is Ash :3

Meaning that you should have encountered one or another situation where you found yourself invisible in a croud, meleeing the S#&$ outa your enemys.

Invisibility doesn't make you invulnerable BUT it is the most effective defensive ability in the game while loki misses both, the conflicting kit that wouldn't allow you using duration (ash, transient+fleeting) and the room issue (range, duration and efficiency is fairly enough to max evry ability) to not make it possible to play it. The higher duration base also scales better with duration mods, while he has the strongest power pool in the game.

Things like stray shots happen but a little movement takes care of that issue. Getting silence on your weapon makes you litteraly impossible to even track. Not target, track. Same for just going melee since these weapons are silent from the very beginning. And the decoy couldn't scale anyway, even if you DID actually build for it but a limbo is able to protect it and it is still plenty to cover the invisibility recast.

Loki is equally usefull and godlike in solo and teamplay.

And no offense man but evrything that actually kills you comes down to noobish misstakes.

[Oswalder]

- Loki is very hard to play and need more skills and more theorycrafting than your " put power and press 4 " frames , isnt a frame for newbies his 1 is very powerful combined with teleport and you can do very large actions with him and all of his spells.

 

This is a fantasy that needs to stop. Let's use words for what they mean.

There is NOTHING in Warframe that is very hard to play. Loki players might need to move around more and look out for the invisibility timer while other characters are even less demanding but that's it. 1 and 3 are nice and all in theory, but barely required when 2 and 4 can be widely available. Might be more interesting once the coptering is gone and space is not null, but skills? not in WF right now.

[Asokah]

The best defensive ability in the game is mobility. Indeed, invisibility give you very good defense IF you are moving.

Isnt noobish to get crushed when you fail, it's human, but if you fail with Loki, you can get killed very quickly, more quickly than other frames who are more cool with mistakes like armored warriors frames ( ash exca chroma ect ) i'm not here to show my big MR or my perfects skills, i'm not a farmer pgm alpha prime who think  "lvl 150 so EZ"  and i think Loki isnt so easy to play ( and I think its why devs removed Loki from newbies frame pool )

 i'm not saying loki need buff on his health/shield or armor, Loki need to be weak,  I just try to explain why Loki isnt so op like some tennos would have you believe.

The fact is invisibility help you a lot but don't replace good mobility and control of your movements. 

Since the IA 2.0 mobility is the key, I can survive with vauban without camping in higher level if i'm enough fast and i keep ennemies with good distance like any other warframe who don't have invisibility but different spells who aren't weaker .. 

Look limbo, he can bring you to the real invincibility level plus a very good energy regen, its make him "op" ?  I don't think so. Because he need good mobility and skill to be powerful and its why many player don't like him or/and don't  see his potential.

Yes invisibility is an advantage, like all specifics attributes of all frames, i'm agree with you  its very good defensive ' and offensive )  ability but it is not "THE better" especially if you are melee fan player invisibility alone isnt so op. 

Edit : When i'm talking about skill, i'm not talking about "pro gamer" ,"supra skill", "elite gamers" or something like that  but warframe isnt so easy to play, perhaps you are accustomed to games like that or good players and more games are more harder but trust me the game is not easy and when you saying that , I don't think you realize how warframe need real synergy between all your fingers

Edited July 26, 2015 by Asokah

[HunRii]

Loki's OP in the right hands.  Pretty much like every other frame out there.

 

The difference with Loki compared to many others, he gets squished if you don't pay attention.

 

Ash can be built to be similar to Loki (in regards to invisibility) and isn't squashed as easily if you make a mistake.  Yes, it's an effective build for spy missions, but you sacrifice a fair amount to have max invis so it's not an endless mission type build.  Great for most missions, and levelling gear though.

 

Even with high mobility, in higher level missions the AoE can overtake Loki (and some other frames) if you can't stay out of the AoE fairly quickly.  But, that's why this is a team game, so you can deal with that mechanic.

[SquirmyBurrito]

While permanently in the need to eather

*Set a expensive field

Or

*banish enemys one by one

To actually attack anything. The regeneration is nothing more then a placebo in actuall gameplay. Sad truth.

There have been potential concepts for auto-banishing with damage while riftwalking or allowing loot while inside cataclysm (cause ya know, its not even logical that loot would float to another dimension in a constantly banished field), that have been ignored since his release.

His power-management is #*($%%@ up. Regeneration or not.

Edit: btw, you do realise that calling him invulnerable is quite the brave statement right?

He has the option to switch to another plane of reality. Thing is, evrything that joins him can and WILL attack him. His low defense inside the rift is quite the issue.

A invisible loki/ash with somewhat common sense becomes invulnerable, a hysteria valkyr becomes invulnerable for a fixed duration (with quite the backflash). A limbo becomes invulnerable to the same extend a player becomes while going afk in a safe spot or aborting the mission. That's just bs mate.

 

Cataclysm isn't expensive if you max efficiency, which you should as a Limbo.

 

Banishing enemies one-by-one is only for hard hitting mobs who you need the free damage on (they get knocked over when you banish them, preventing them from attacking you).

 

Placebo implies there is nothing actually going on, in this case the energy regeneration is VERY real. Cast Rift Walk, wait for energy pool to fill up, cast cataclysm somewhere while you hide behind something, shoot mobs that enter it, get rid of it whenever you want.

 

Power management? You mean pressing 2 and then ignoring the button for the next 40+ seconds while pressing 4 whenever you want to be able to attack enemies and pressing it again when you want them to stop being able to attack you? All while ignoring any enemies who charge your position simply because they can't touch you with very few exceptions.

 

Brave how? You literally control what can and what cannot touch you. Press 2 and then sit around and twidle your thumbs if you want, nothing is touching you. When modded for high duration, max power efficiency, and equipped with an energy siphon, your rift walk will last for 66.6 seconds. That's over a minute of invulnerability.

Don't be an idiot while playing Limbo, and nothing will ever touch you. Banish enemies, shoot them, 'unbanish' them when they're about to be fully recovered from the knockdown animation. You just dealt XXXX damage without any fear of retaliation. On a larger scale, you can cast cataclysm and shoot into it from a distance while rift walking. Enemies that aren't in the bubble can't hurt you, enemies that are in the bubble should be ill-equipped to hurt you (read: Be far away, and use cover).

 

Loki and Ash can be easily damaged while invisible, they are not invulnerable. Valkyr is invulnerable, but has to deal with potential backlash. Limbo is truly invulnerable and get's to decide who can hurt him. Hell, if you have a volt on your team you don't even need to banish enemies (unless they fixed that bug). Playing Limbo does not automatically make you an AFK'er. I have carried teams while @(*()$ around as Limbo (not even playing seriously) all because the frame is ridiculously powerful. You can stroll through even the highest level content without having to worry about taking damage. If you see a nullifier, avoid their bubble (just as an invisible Loki or Ash would), or pop out of the rift, shoot the dude, and then retreat into the rift once more.

[RealPandemonium]

Valkyr is invulnerable, but has to deal with potential backlash. .

Not really; all you have to do is get away from enemies when the duration ends and you take no damage.  

[muzashi1963]

LEAVE. MY. LOKI. ALONE.

 

That is all.

[GuyOnCrack]

Nowhere in any of my statements was there a slippery slope fallacy. I didn't even suggest any logical progressions, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Your point was that they WERE OP. WERE. They were later changed so as to not be OP now, right? I don't see your point.

Things aren't OP is solo BECAUSE it's a team based game! No matter how good or bad a frame is, it was NOT designed to do the work of 4 frames. Also, even if it was OP in solo, how does that affect me in the slightest? It doesn't matter to me, and shouldn't matter to anyone what you do by yourself in your own time as long as it doesn't bother anyone or breaks the game.

"Parroting what everyone else says" when they provide detailed facts and statistical or emperical evidence is commonly called "citing". Again, manyf actors at play, blah, blah, blah. If there are more factors than damage, it means there are more things to observe about the frame, not just to throw up your arms and say that you can't know until you try.

Well........yes. If you want to get the most out of a frame, play it in the way it was designed to be played. The Lokis in solo aren't bothering me, you, the OP, or anyone else. If Loki is indeed OP (I don't have enough experience with Loki to say one way or another, I don't play with them often) in a team setting, the way he was meant to be played (but not the ONLY way to play), then he must be changed to suit that first, and solo play after.

So going from, "Understanding only from play a frame," to "Understanding murder from only murdering somebody," isn't a slippery slope? Go back and read my first post on replying to you.

That's great but you still would lack a proper understanding of a frame because most forms of information regarding Warframe is heavily biased when going into detail. I could tell you RD is OP because you can cast it invisible or behind cover, and without proper play of the frame, you wouldn't realize that Loki needs to be invisible or behind cover when casting RD because of his squishiness. And that is still somebody who has played the frame, so please find me people who have played Loki and find him "OP". You saying,

"If there are more factors than damage, it means there are more things to observe about the frame, not just to throw up your arms and say that you can't know until you try." 

doesn't make my point less valid. You still need to play the frame to understand the factors. You won't see them all.

[ZzVinniezZ]

let nerf the warframe who doesn't have a single abilities to deal damage

Edited July 27, 2015 by ZzVinniezZ

[izzatuw]

Lets nerf Loki by the easiest way we can.

All frames should need Power duration range and strength.

Right now Loki dont need strength so everyone just ignore it and add Overextended mod to make Radial Disarm as a huge AoE ability.

Radial Disarm Nerf:

Enemies are Disarmed for 20 seconds and its affected by Power strength. (Signal of making weapons useless now will have duration and Power strength make the signal stronger so it takes a longer time the weapons dont work)

Invisibility Nerf:

Just like with Ember World on fire. Cost energy on use, ability ON-OFF. have its own Duration limit and it drains energy per second.

Duration 12 seconds. 25 energy cost on use. 5energy drain per second.

Decoy:

Power strength should affect decoy, by how many hits it can take.

So with that Loki will need to have: Duration, range and strength. Just like it should be. No OP invisibility that you just spam over and over because before invisibility turn off you got all energy back or even more so you can use it just like that. Now it will drain energy per second so it will be hard to use over and over Invisibility without risk.

Invisibility nerf:

No, just no.

How many people actually like WOF's current energy condition? I'm pretty sure less than 1% of the community thinks it's perfect or should be left untouched.

Decoy can only take 2-3 hits at most, it's fine.

I don't see how RD can't just be duration based, why make it strength based too?

Seems like nerfing for the sake of nerfing.

We should note that there's no perfect build for Loki, build around Radial Disarm and you'll have a horrible Invisibility. Build around Invisibility and you'll have a horrible Disarm. My invisibility lasts 8 seconds on my Disarm build. I'll be losing 4 energy for each cast instead of gaining it all back and more.

You know what other frame hardly needs strength? Nyx.

[TheBrsrkr]

So going from, "Understanding only from play a frame," to "Understanding murder from only murdering somebody," isn't a slippery slope? Go back and read my first post on replying to yo with that's great but you still would lack a proper understanding of a frame because most forms of information regarding Warframe is heavily biased when going into detail. I could tell you RD is OP because you can cast it invisible or behind cover, and without proper play of the frame, you wouldn't realize that Loki needs to be invisible or behind cover when casting RD because of his squishiness. And that is still somebody who has played the frame, so please find me people who have played Loki and find him "OP". You saying,

"If there are more factors than damage, it means there are more things to observe about the frame, not just to throw up your arms and say that you can't know until you try."

doesn't make my point less valid. You still need to play the frame to understand the factors. You won't see them all.

Actually, it's not. I didn't say that understanding from playing a frame would LEAD TO understanding murder from murdering, I gave you several real life situations in which that logic does not apply and why.

I don't see how information is biased in one way or another here. Using your earlier example, if I were to say P. Skana was better than Dakra Prime, I would have to back that up in some way, or you could simply discard that as my opinion and nothing more. However, if I provide the relevant comparisons and numerical values instead of saying tge usual "this took me to 40mins T4" that shows which one is more powerful and why, it's hardly biased.

Again, what you had to go through to get the effect is wholly irrelevant if the effect itself is OP. If I had to farm for 3 years to get the AkSoma Prime, which needs to be planted, slows down movement, halves health and shields, but shoots Miasmas with the Soma's fire rate, it's not going to change the fact that the weapon is ridiculously OP. It was the same with Rhino's old Iron Skin, Trinity's........everything and the old M Prime, which some people STILL think is OP. I don't see your point.

Exactly what factors would I be missing here? It's common knowledge that Loki is squishy, and that invisibility provides another layer of evasion for him. I don't really have to play with him to know that I have to take cover when casting literally anything so I won't die. I can simply look at his stats and move set, and then see how an actual Loki plays, and come to a conclusion based on that.

[Emeraudes]

What are you 2 guys even arguing about? Past the 3rd reply to each other, your conversation moved away from topic and went into trying to change each other's perspective.

Also, I'm not sure if any of you noticed but as the game progresses and DE takes note of how most players want to challenge themselves(not by entirely means of forum feedback, but also by game statistics).

The game will be moving on from the previous balance point with which a lot of you are comparing damage frames from.

I mention damage frames because most of them currently do not scale well in endless and a lot of nerf propagators like to use it as a point in their argument.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Cataclysm isn't expensive if you max efficiency, which you should as a Limbo.

Banishing enemies one-by-one is only for hard hitting mobs who you need the free damage on (they get knocked over when you banish them, preventing them from attacking you).

Placebo implies there is nothing actually going on, in this case the energy regeneration is VERY real. Cast Rift Walk, wait for energy pool to fill up, cast cataclysm somewhere while you hide behind something, shoot mobs that enter it, get rid of it whenever you want.

Power management? You mean pressing 2 and then ignoring the button for the next 40+ seconds while pressing 4 whenever you want to be able to attack enemies and pressing it again when you want them to stop being able to attack you? All while ignoring any enemies who charge your position simply because they can't touch you with very few exceptions.

Brave how? You literally control what can and what cannot touch you. Press 2 and then sit around and twidle your thumbs if you want, nothing is touching you. When modded for high duration, max power efficiency, and equipped with an energy siphon, your rift walk will last for 66.6 seconds. That's over a minute of invulnerability.

Don't be an idiot while playing Limbo, and nothing will ever touch you. Banish enemies, shoot them, 'unbanish' them when they're about to be fully recovered from the knockdown animation. You just dealt XXXX damage without any fear of retaliation. On a larger scale, you can cast cataclysm and shoot into it from a distance while rift walking. Enemies that aren't in the bubble can't hurt you, enemies that are in the bubble should be ill-equipped to hurt you (read: Be far away, and use cover).

Loki and Ash can be easily damaged while invisible, they are not invulnerable. Valkyr is invulnerable, but has to deal with potential backlash. Limbo is truly invulnerable and get's to decide who can hurt him. Hell, if you have a volt on your team you don't even need to banish enemies (unless they fixed that bug). Playing Limbo does not automatically make you an AFK'er. I have carried teams while @(*()$ around as Limbo (not even playing seriously) all because the frame is ridiculously powerful. You can stroll through even the highest level content without having to worry about taking damage. If you see a nullifier, avoid their bubble (just as an invisible Loki or Ash would), or pop out of the rift, shoot the dude, and then retreat into the rift once more.

Cataclysm is VERY expensive for the option to ATTACK ENEMYS while riftwalking.

The controll litteraly only applies to banishing them one by one. And that's where it becomes expensive af. You have additional energy reg in the ammount a energy siphon would offer. That's far from enough to fire cata's, the buff, banish on a regular base or even the buff, compared to just picking up orbs

Seriously. Do me a favor and actually try playing him for a while.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Not really; all you have to do is get away from enemies when the duration ends and you take no damage.  

 

"potential backlash"

 

Cataclysm is VERY expensive for the option to ATTACK ENEMYS while riftwalking.

The controll litteraly only applies to banishing them one by one. And that's where it becomes expensive af. You have additional energy reg in the ammount a energy siphon would offer. That's far from enough to fire cata's, the buff, banish on a regular base or even the buff, compared to just picking up orbs

Seriously. Do me a favor and actually try playing him for a while.

 

No it isn't. It costs 25 energy and can also last for ~a minute. You get your energy back before it even expires if you leave it out for the full duration. If you max duration cataclysm will last for 84.6 seconds, but will be tiny. So instead I'd recommend just getting high duration, with that it should last at least 44 seconds. 44 seconds at 25 initial energy per cast (with max efficiency), with energy siphon Limbo will be regenerating energy at a rate of 2.6 energy per second, meaning in the 44 seconds that you have until cataclysm ends (and the 40+ seconds you have until rift walk ends) you will regenerate 114.4 energy. You could cast cataclysm four times for that amount of energy and still have more than enough to recast rift walk. Energy orbs give you a bundle of energy all at once, but often require you to get close to enemies to do so. Limbo's energy regen does not require you to put yourself into harms way to benefit. Hell, if you decide you don't want energy siphon equipped, you're still regenerating energy at a rate of 2 energy per second. This would mean in 44 seconds you'd gain 88 energy, that's enough for 3 cataclysms (two if you subtract the initial cast's cost).

 

No it doesn't. You can also get rid of cataclysm whenever you want simply by pressing 4 again.

 

Mate, if any of us need to go play him it is you. You seem to be woefully ignorant regarding the mechanics surrounding his abilities, the stats that are achievable via proper modding, and the playstyles he lends himself to.

[Marthrym]

Loki really isn't hard to play. I never understood the "for advanced players" part. I mean seriously? "Advanced" players? Nice one DE, always joking!

Just press 2 and don't bump into every enemy you cross paths with. And press 4 to neuter them forever. He is far more potent than most frames. Hek, mod him properly and you litteraly can be invisible forever and disarm enemies on the other side of the biggest tiles...

 

Not to mention his ult augment makes Nyx irrelevant. Bastard should burn in Hell for it... >.<

[Cerebrum123]

Loki is not OP.

 

Why?

 

Because unlike many other Warframe,Loki does not possess the ability to clear a room full of enemies in one go.

 

Sure Loki can disarm,but that doesn't kill the enemies. You need to go and kill with weapon.

 

Loki is utility warframe.

 

Also,Loki fails hard against infested. Loki is the one and only warframe which is useless against a whole faction of the game.

 

There are other utility frames which excels in their respective jobs. Banshee can stunlock a huge area. Vauban can literally just troll with the enemies. Nyx can troll as well as kill enemies,depending on their power.

 

Infact,on higher level gameplay,Nyx is the most powerful frame you will ever get. Corrupted bombards do thousands of damage? Ok,fine. Go into absorb and give them back their own damage.

 

Also,in Warframe,there are numerous enemies which can drain energy. Once your energy is drained,Loki won't survive 1 min in relatively higher level gameplay.

 

The only thing that may make Loki too strong is the augment,Irradiating Disarm. But it is necessary. Because this game gives you an option to play Solo and Irradiating Disarm is a real help for Solo players.

 

I don't see why it needs a nerf. Because it was able to solo one Tac. Alert? Really?

MAG says hi! 

[(PSN)sunnyxtreme83]

They say its OP and cry when it get nerfed.

[S0V3REiGN]

Loki really isn't hard to play. I never understood the "for advanced players" part. I mean seriously? "Advanced" players? Nice one DE, always joking!

Just press 2 and don't bump into every enemy you cross paths with. And press 4 to neuter them forever. He is far more potent than most frames. Hek, mod him properly and you litteraly can be invisible forever and disarm enemies on the other side of the biggest tiles...

 

Not to mention his ult augment makes Nyx irrelevant. Bastard should burn in Hell for it... >.<

 

There is a reason why its for "advanced players", you probably have played so long you don't see why. Loki was my first warframe back when he was a starter frame to chose from. When you have absolutely no mods you realize that his sub par 75 shields, 75 health and 65 armor are complete trash because he unlike many frames is VERY dependent on his powers for surviverability and to interact with the environment. It takes a while to get all the right mods to make him work properly and i honestly could not wait to get rid of him and that is exactly what I did. Of course, now that I have a lot of experience under my belt and pretty much any maxed out mod you can put on him he runs like brand new Ferrari. There is a good reason why he got removed as a starter frame.

Edited July 27, 2015 by S0V3REiGN

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

There is a reason why its for "advanced players", you probably have played so long you don't see why. Loki was my first warframe back when he was a starter frame to chose from. When you have absolutely no mods you realize that his sub par 75 shields, 75 health and 65 armor are complete trash because he unlike many frames is VERY dependent on his powers for surviverability and to interact with the environment. It takes a while to get all the right mods to make him work properly and i honestly could not wait to get rid of him and that is exactly what I did. Of course, now that I have a lot of experience under my belt and pretty much any maxed out mod you can put on him he runs like brand new Ferrari.

Unlike

LOL

Thers exactly one: valkyr. And only if you mod for basestats.

Edited July 27, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[S0V3REiGN]

Unlike

LOL

Thers exactly one: valkyr. And only if you mod for basestats.

 

Please, other frames like Rhino can just slap on Iron skin and be good to go for some time, you cant do that with loki. Try to run around with that default duration for a few weeks (his default invisibility is something like 5 seconds I think). Heck Excal starts out with a base 225 armor, Mag even has double the shields and unlike those other two Loki has ZERO offensive capabilities.